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#116662 - 05/28/09 11:57 AM Re: your top 3 [Re: billstephenson]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By billstephenson
I'd say finding your way back would be #1.

That's different than map skills. A map is good if you have one, but not so good if you leave it somewhere and forget it.

The trick to this is reading and remembering the terrain you've covered, and looking for and remembering landmarks.

Fallen trees, rock formations, creeks, canyons and distant views of peaks and ridges and valleys, man made items (trash). Pay attention to these things as you hike in, and look for them when hiking out.

These skills are easy to practice and learn by starting with short hikes and bushwhacks (off trail hikes) and increasing your distance as you become better and more confident. You can hone your map skills at the same time.



Bill, I agree completely with what you are trying to say, but don't completely agree with your definitions. It is vital that when hiking you are able to read and remember terrain covered. You should be able to walk around for a week or two and then be able to retrace your steps without a map. Remembering landmarks is key to this. But, I think that that is what map skills are. If you can't look at the terrain, and then place yourself on the map, what good is the map? All a map is good for is finding a new route to something specific, or finding your car when taking a different path from the one you took away from it.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#116681 - 05/28/09 04:23 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: lori]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Lori

Hi
Hey this thread is kinda out of hand. No offence to you personally.
quote:
____________________________________
Packs falling into rivers is why you keep the 10 essentials with you at all times. endquote
_________________________________________

HAS ANYONE HERE EVER LOST A PACK INTO A RIVER? OR KNOWN ANYONE THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED TO?

Just curious.

IMOHO the preparations for imaginary situations that will never happen, sort of bend the reality that BPing is really just taking a sack of food and clothes and sleeping on the ground after hiking to your chosen spot. If you do not intend to be hurt, lost, attacked or to have a tree fall on you, then you don't need a lot of gear.

Why alcohol stove? It doesn't sound like an especially light cooking setup.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#116689 - 05/28/09 05:06 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: Jimshaw]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I sometimes do leave my pack and go on a dayhike or climb a point. When I do, I take the 10 essentials with me.

I think it's a little ridiculous to imagine anyone letting their pack fall into a river, but I do know many folks undo the hip belt while crossing them with the notion that if they do go off balance, that heavy object won't drag them under - I don't bother undoing the belt because I feel more secure with the pack properly balanced on my body, personally. And no, I've never known anyone who lost their pack completely. I have yet to hike with someone who is that ridiculously careless.

I actually keep most of the ten essentials in my cargo pockets on the pants I wear, as well as my keys and credit card/cash. It's not that hard to have them at hand. That way if I want to stash the pack and head up the rest of the way to a peak, it's not a huge deal digging stuff out of the pack - take the water and go.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#116692 - 05/28/09 06:44 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: Jimshaw]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Originally Posted By Jimshaw


HAS ANYONE HERE EVER LOST A PACK INTO A RIVER? OR KNOWN ANYONE THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED TO?

Just curious.
Jim


The local hiking club had a fatality a couple decades ago. A husband and wife were "sharing 10 essentials", but became separated in heavy snow. In my opinion it is easier to learn to carry emergency gear that use primitive techniques to make a fire in a white-out blizzard.

There were lawsuits.. I do not know the outcome.

The hiking club had enough political "juice" to get the state volunteer liability laws changed.

You are right. Most of the stories of bad things come from friends of friends with no names and dates attached. Hard to separate the myth from reality.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#116696 - 05/28/09 08:24 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: Jimshaw]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I actually fell in a river and lost a bunch of gear, but was with a larger group so others loaned me stuff. We were actually on our way out of the mountains, evacuating a person with a suspected concusion and walked 20+ miles out without stopping. I was carrying his gear on the top of my pack and toppled into a river as I was hopping rocks. I replaced my lost gear before going back in. We later found out he did not have a concusion, thank goodness.

So yes, people do fall into rivers! I did not loose my own pack, but the poor fellows pack was never found!

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#116698 - 05/28/09 09:30 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: ringtail]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By food


You are right. Most of the stories of bad things come from friends of friends with no names and dates attached. Hard to separate the myth from reality.


I just know that judging from the people who sign up for the hiking group to which I belong, and go on the least strenuous, most straightforward short hikes we schedule, can find the d@%$$est dumb things to do out there. I can wish for just hearing anecdotes.... I'm just glad it's been near misses.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#116701 - 05/28/09 11:20 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: Jimshaw]
MattnID Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 317
Loc: Idaho
Well, I'm actually the one who happened to bring up the falling in a river and losing a pack thing. I brought it up because it did happen, though it wasn't as severe as completely losing the pack. We were crossing a fairly wide xreek and the middle guy somehow lost his balance and went clear under. He said he bailed his pack because he couldn't right himself right away in the current.

He got out of the river just fine after that, soaked but fine. His pack only went about 50 yards before it got snagged going around the bend on a tree that had fallen in the river, lucky for him since that was a lot of money being rushed down the river. His lighter didn't work for a while and all of his stuff was pretty soaked, but he could have just as easily lost it all. We had enough gear to finish the hike, feed him and keep him warm, but it did happen. It wasn't really a scare since it happened quickly and I didn't see it until I saw a pack floating down the river as I turned around on the opposite bank. The other guy was still on the other bank relieving himself so he was totally clueless until he popped out of the alders a minute later.

It isn't like it happens a lot obviously, but it isn't like it doesn't ever.
_________________________
In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.-Aristotle

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#116735 - 05/29/09 07:52 PM Re: your top 3 [Re: johnsonbrad1]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
Unbuckling the wasit belt and sternum strap on a pack is the official method taught at NOLS. Losing a pack is better than losing your life. When you fall in a river with a significant current, you need to escape from your pack immediately. A pack, with all its little loops and etc can easily get caught on a branch or rock on the stream bottom and hold you under water.

In cases where my pack is really heavy, I have ferried two or more loads across a river, rather than take a chance on a heavy pack with my wasitbelt hooked.

The whole purpose of lightweight backpacking is to have a relatively light pack - and if it is so heavy or ill balanced that you need the wasit belt for stability, I would suggest that it is too heavy or needs re-packing.

Streams are not the only hazard for your pack. A friend of mine was climbing the east face of Mt. Whitney and set her pack down at a rest break and it rolled off the mountain, never to be found again! And she was a very experienced climber. Everyone makes mistakes.

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