Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#110911 - 02/08/09 08:52 PM Buying any new gear with new technology?
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Any new stuff! you gotta have this coming year?

I want to pick up a Neo Air mattress from Cascade Designs. Did you see the link on the right for Nemo? They have a new two layer pad. I see the small pack makers have made improvements on packs, not new technology in my opinion, just improvements. Anything not mentioned around here, I'm not into electronic gadgets.

edited, my other left. Doh!


Edited by hikerduane (02/08/09 08:55 PM)

Top
#110915 - 02/08/09 10:54 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By hikerduane
Any new stuff! you gotta have this coming year?

I want to pick up a Neo Air mattress from Cascade Designs. Did you see the link on the right for Nemo? They have a new two layer pad. I see the small pack makers have made improvements on packs, not new technology in my opinion, just improvements. Anything not mentioned around here, I'm not into electronic gadgets.

edited, my other left. Doh!
The Neo Air Pad is the best pad I've ever used. I've spent about 3 weeks backpacking with it and have never slept better. Some would say the best part about this pad is how small and light it is, but I think the best part is how comfortable it is. It is nothing like other air-only mattresses mainly because of the horizontal baffles rather than vertical ones. This makes all the difference. It is also far more difficult to manufacture. There are over 130 baffles that make up this pad vs. 14ish on other air-only. I agree, once people do research on this pad, it will be one of the hot items to get for 2009. It's actually created a new catagory, ultra-light luxury grin.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#110922 - 02/09/09 12:29 AM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
Eric Offline
member

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 294
Loc: The State of Jefferson
The Neo Air looks like a real improvement over normal air mats. My question is, how does "three times warmer than any other uninsulated air mattress" relate to insulated mats. I stopped using air mattresses because they were too cold. Is this good enough to replace my ridge rest?

Top
#110935 - 02/09/09 06:43 AM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
mosquito Offline
member

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 86
Loc: Minnesota
Jason,
What temps did you get to and what size were you using?

Top
#110940 - 02/09/09 10:13 AM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1667
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Originally Posted By jasonlivy
Originally Posted By hikerduane
Any new stuff! you gotta have this coming year?

I want to pick up a Neo Air mattress from Cascade Designs. Did you see the link on the right for Nemo? They have a new two layer pad. I see the small pack makers have made improvements on packs, not new technology in my opinion, just improvements. Anything not mentioned around here, I'm not into electronic gadgets.


edited, my other left. Doh!
The Neo Air Pad is the best pad I've ever used. I've spent about 3 weeks backpacking with it and have never slept better. Some would say the best part about this pad is how small and light it is, but I think the best part is how comfortable it is. It is nothing like other air-only mattresses mainly because of the horizontal baffles rather than vertical ones. This makes all the difference. It is also far more difficult to manufacture. There are over 130 baffles that make up this pad vs. 14ish on other air-only. I agree, once people do research on this pad, it will be one of the hot items to get for 2009. It's actually created a new catagory, ultra-light luxury grin.


They quote an R value of 2.5. Their Prolite is 2.2 and Prolite Plus is 3.8.

This is definitely a very interesting piece of gear. Thanks to O.P.for the heads up.
_________________________
Human Resources Memo: Floggings will continue until morale improves.

Top
#110946 - 02/09/09 11:34 AM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
energy_turtle Offline


Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I really really really want the Neo Air...but damn it's expensive. I recently ordered the uninsulated Big Agnes inflatable because I was under the impression that the Neo Air wouldn't be available until April and I have a trip or two coming before then. The BA is only 11oz (the main reason I bought it) so from a weight perspective the Neo Air isn't a tremendous improvement (9oz vs. 11oz). It'll come down to warmth and comfort, and for that I'll need to try one out once REI has them in stores. I honestly don't know how cold I'll be on an uninsulated pad...my bag is a 20F synthetic and I'm a hot sleeper. Unless it's REALLY cold outside, my bag is like an oven to me.

Top
#110962 - 02/09/09 01:53 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: energy_turtle]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
I'm looking at the weight savings and the comfort level. For the money, if it doesn't work out, I will be returning to REI. As soon as I can get one.:( I have only seen good things so far, we'll have to go along with Jason, a fellow TLB member.

Top
#111098 - 02/11/09 08:11 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Article here from last summer on this new air mattress.

It's all relative, fellow hikers. With the NeoAir at $119, compare that to a water pump for a 350hp Merc on the back of a 20-foot Scarab (one of 3 engines back there) to go recreational fishing in the Gulf Stream would be 3 or 4 times that -- and that's with the boater, not a mechanic, replacing it. We're into a healthy, inexpensive sport, thank God.

The question on this air mattress is, is it durable? Will it keep in the air? How easy is it to repair?
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


Top
#111102 - 02/11/09 09:17 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: kevonionia]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I'll be one of the many bodies lying on the floor at REI when the NeoAir comes out, but I'm not buying without an extensive trial. If they have to wake me up when the store closes, I'll buy it!

I've already had experience with an air mattress (BA Clearview) that was ostensibly as thick as my POE Insulmat Max Thermo (whose name is now slightly abbreviated to Ether Thermo). However, because of its having more and smaller tubes, the BA pad is thinner when blown up than the POE pad (I inflated both and put them side-by-side). I kept blowing air in and letting it back out of the BA pad and never could find a happy medium between having my hip hit the ground and having the mat hard as a brick. With the POE pad, blowing it up about halfway allows my hip and shoulder to settle into a nice cushiony surface, keeping my spine level when I'm on my side. (I do have rather ample (!) hips.) Noting the large number of tubes in the NeoAir, I strongly suspect I'll have the same problem with it. Too bad, because I'd sure love the lower weight. If the 9 oz. is accurate, it will be about half the weight of my POE pad.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#111103 - 02/11/09 09:27 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: kevonionia]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
As has been quoted, the NeoAir is rated at 2.5 R-Value. The way it works WITHOUT using insulation is by a patented 'Triangle Core Matrix' and radiative heat. All of the materials inside the pad are aluminum coated. It's also split into two parts with a very thin durable plastic aluminum coated material seperating the two layers. The idea is that to top half will radiate heat to the person while the bottom half will send the cold back to the ground.

The other part of this, the 'Triangle Core Matrix' uses many baffles to trap the air thus not allowing for convective heat loss. The natural response to this is then how do you blow it up? The material that makes up this matrix is similar to dryer sheets, allowing the air to be forced through the material, but trapping it once it's there. By doing this you don't get the traditional circulation that accounts for heat loss.

The pad is super easy to roll up and is able to easily fit into a micro-sized stuff sack (sold seperately, but it's a nice stuff sack made from Codura sil-nylon and well made). The pad's material has a silicon treatment that keeps it from sliding around, although it does attract sand (which incidentally is easily wiped off). The valve is identical to all valves on Thermarest and the user can blow up the pad without concern of wetting down the insulation since there is none.

It's also fairly durable, at least as puncture resistant as any other pad Cascade Designs makes and the welding creates an exceptionally strong bond. One of the concerns of this pad is that if it is punctured, all the insulative qualities are lost. The solution to this was a new type of repair kit offered for 2009, called the Fast and Light Repair Kit. With it you can perform a permanent repair in a matter of minutes, unlike the Hot Bond Repair kit which takes a full 24 hours to cure. The only pad this new repair kit won't work on is the LuxuryCamp pad. This kit includes a series of gummy patches along with a clear 3M patch to go over it. All that's required is a little cleaning over the hole, applying this gummy material over it, pressing it around the hole, and then placing the clear patch over it. In a few minutes you will have a permanent repair! Therefore if you do experience a hole in the pad in the middle of the night, you can easily repair it and get back to sleep in about 10 minutes. The Hot Bond Repair kit doesn't work on the NeoAir pad.

As I said in a previous post, this pad's main attribute is it's comfort which is far better than the traditional large bellowed air-only pads whether insulated or not. There was always a compromise with those pads. The benefits were light weight and packability, but for sheer comfort, they weren't the best choice. The NeoAir has solved this comfort dilemma by using horizontal baffles vs. vertical ones and having a lot of them. The price is high, but the techology is amazing and works! I've never regretted buying something that does what I need it to do and meets my expectations based on the price paid. The NeoAir does that and more in my opinion. It is my current favorite piece of gear.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#111108 - 02/11/09 11:13 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Thank you Jason for more info. I figure if I buy from REI, it can be returned if I'm not happy as they have a very liberal return policy. How can one go wrong? Plus, it is guaranteed for life.

No more new "stuff" anyone?

Top
#111148 - 02/12/09 03:28 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By hikerduane
Thank you Jason for more info. I figure if I buy from REI, it can be returned if I'm not happy as they have a very liberal return policy. How can one go wrong? Plus, it is guaranteed for life.

No more new "stuff" anyone?
There is a ton of new stuff worth considering.

From Cascade Designs specifically; they are introducing the new Prolite Pad that is now the lightest weight, self-inflating mattress ever made. At 16oz. for a regular (4oz. lighter than the Prolite 3), it uses the 'sticky dot' material (the most expensive and lightest weight material Cascade Designs uses on any pad) to help with abrasion resistance, slightly larger 'star' cut-outs (which reduce the R-Value by a mere 0.1), and a new rounded shape.

The Prolite Plus, the new Prolite 4, will be available around March sometime. This pad has been totally revamped to allow for 20% more warmth with the same size and weight as the previous Prolite 4. They way they've done it is instead of drilling the holes vertically, they have done so now at an angle which, when layed on, closes the holes making for more insulation. The pad weighs in at 1lb 8oz. for a men's regular.

The new Cooksets, slated for March as well, are also worth considering. They have totally revamped this line and are offering brand new Ti cooksets, Hard Anodized and Enamel. These will take the place of the Duralite and Blacklite. You can get them either as a cookset which includes mugs and plates or as a potset. The one I'm excited about is the Quick 1 which is a 1.3L Ti pot, aluminum lid (has a strainer built in), and uses the new Talon Griper. All of the new cooksets include the Talon Gripper which is far superior to any other type of pot handle. The new mugs are also awesome and have a unique shape. They weigh as much as a double-wall Ti 12 oz. mug but are stainless steel (they are not double wall, but have an EVA foam outer sleeve that is much more durable than Neoprene). There will also be new durable nylon foldable spoons, forks, and sporks under the MSR brand.

The Venture Down Comforter is something to keep your eye on. I've used it several times down to about 35degrees and have been incredibly impressed by how warm I was and how comfortable. When mated with the NeoAir, you get an ultra-light sleeping set up, but the comfort is where it really shines. This 'blanket' snaps to the fitted sheet (sold separately) mimicking your bed at home. The new Compak Chair from Thermarest is sil-nylon and weighs in at 6oz. It will fit any size pad 20" wide and has a unique back that will enable you to extend the pad up for more comfort.

Finally the AutoFlow filter is available! I think this will be the surprise product of the year for Cascade Designs. It is 10oz., but can filter at almost 2L per minute gravity feed (translation: no work!). It's easy to clean, can be used as an inline filter in emergencies, will last a long time, and will filter down to 0.2 microns. Everyone who's planning on buying a filter needs to check this out. You would do yourselves a disservice not to.

These are just a few of the new items coming out for 2009. It's going to be a great year in the backcountry!
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#111149 - 02/12/09 03:46 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By hikerduane
Thank you Jason for more info. I figure if I buy from REI, it can be returned if I'm not happy as they have a very liberal return policy. How can one go wrong? Plus, it is guaranteed for life.

No more new "stuff" anyone?
I'm going to keep going laugh

Granite Gear has their new Air Reduction DryBlok Solid. That's a mouthful, but it is an amazing new compressions sack. They have replaced the webbing with removable cordage for compressing the sack making it 30% lighter than the Air Compressors. They've also made it with a roll-top closer and a swath of eVent material on the bottom. This is the best compression sack available currently on the market. It's totally waterproof, easy to load up, and the cordage works very well in compressing the whole thing.

They also have a new pack called the Flash. This takes the place of the Precipice. The Flash looks alot like the Meridian Vapor (removable top-lid that converts to a fanny pack), but is much more durable and is a top-loader only. For anyone interested in super lightweight, but doesn't want to compromise durability and loves a top lid, this is a great pack! It weighs in at 3lbs, 1oz. and is available now.

Granite Gear recently won a huge military pack contract, the largest offered any manufacturer based on their unique features, durability, and comfort. They went up against Arc Teryx, Kelty, Mystery Ranch, and others. This will allow Granite Gear to continue to innovate for many years to come and it will also mean that our soldiers have some of the best gear available today. The pack that'll be made for them, called the CHIEF Patrol Pack, retails for $500! It is amazing (though too heavy for most posters on this forum)! I'm hoping to get one soon just because it's sooo cool!





Edited by jasonlivy (02/12/09 05:52 PM)
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#111150 - 02/12/09 04:20 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
energy_turtle Offline


Registered: 11/21/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Atlanta, GA

Top
#111154 - 02/12/09 05:28 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Jason, as described in my post above, I use a large bellowed air pad blown up halfway because I need a soft surface that my hip and shoulder can sink down into to keep my spine horizontal when I'm on my side, without having either hip or shoulder hit the ground. Do you know any female with wide hip bones who has tried the NeoAir and who can achieve a level spine with it when side-sleeping? Can the NeoAir be blown only half full and still keep hip bones off the ground? If the pad is too hard or my spine isn't level when side-sleeping or my hip or shoulder is on a hard surface, I will spend a painful and sleepless night.

I do plan to try the NeoAir, and I would be happy to pay the premium for the lighter weight, but the more I look at the pictures, the more I think it isn't going to work for me.


Edited by OregonMouse (02/12/09 05:30 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

Top
#111158 - 02/12/09 05:49 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: OregonMouse]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Jason, as described in my post above, I use a large bellowed air pad blown up halfway because I need a soft surface that my hip and shoulder can sink down into to keep my spine horizontal when I'm on my side, without having either hip or shoulder hit the ground. Do you know any female with wide hip bones who has tried the NeoAir and who can achieve a level spine with it when side-sleeping? Can the NeoAir be blown only half full and still keep hip bones off the ground? If the pad is too hard or my spine isn't level when side-sleeping or my hip or shoulder is on a hard surface, I will spend a painful and sleepless night.

I do plan to try the NeoAir, and I would be happy to pay the premium for the lighter weight, but the more I look at the pictures, the more I think it isn't going to work for me.
I am a side sleeper as well, though I don't know how my hips compare to yours blush. What I have experienced, due to the sheer amount of baffles, is that it's fairly easy to find that 'sweet spot'. Typically I blow it up and then release about 1/4 to 1/2 the air to get it just right (it takes about 14 breaths to fill it up tight). I think you will have a similar experience to mine. You will find that with this pad you can find the point where your hips aren't hitting the ground, but the pad isn't rock solid either. In my opinion that is what makes this pad worth all the hype it's been getting.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#111159 - 02/12/09 05:51 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: energy_turtle]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By energy_turtle
I was told at the OR Show by the Granite Gear boys that it would retail for around the $800 mark. I'll change it on my post. Thanks for finding it! Up close and personal it is an awesome pack!
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#111161 - 02/12/09 08:01 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: jasonlivy]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Jason
"The pack that'll be made for them, called the CHIEF Patrol Pack, retails for $500! It is amazing (though too heavy for most posters on this forum)! I'm hoping to get one soon just because it's sooo cool!
________________________________________________________
Jason 7.4 pounds! Nice that it has a low infrared visibility, but I think without body armor it might not fit.

There are way cooler packs in the high dollar range that weigh a lot less and are not made of 1000 cordura.

Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
#111165 - 02/12/09 09:09 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Last year I found myself drifting in the opposite direction. I tried to simplify my kit with a low tech approach. I want basic and dependable. I preferred my cat food can alcohol stove over the Jetboil. A simple closed cell mat replaced my inflatable Thermarest. I traded a poncho for my W/B rain gear. I went to chemical water purification or no treatment at all. An so on. I adopted a "less is more" approach. My only concession was a Garmin Vista HCx to replace my aging Magellan 315 because it's vastly superior.

Top
#111201 - 02/13/09 05:19 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: hikerduane]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
I'm gonna' git' me onea' these, just to tick Jimshaw off:

http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/wenger_swiss_...amp;country=USA

BF
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

Top
#111202 - 02/13/09 05:25 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: bigfoot2]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
If you sharpen it, it will tick him off even more. goodjob
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#111205 - 02/13/09 05:53 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: finallyME]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
smile smile smile

BF cool
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

Top
#111219 - 02/13/09 09:42 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: Jimshaw]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
Jason
"The pack that'll be made for them, called the CHIEF Patrol Pack, retails for $500! It is amazing (though too heavy for most posters on this forum)! I'm hoping to get one soon just because it's sooo cool!
________________________________________________________
Jason 7.4 pounds! Nice that it has a low infrared visibility, but I think without body armor it might not fit.

There are way cooler packs in the high dollar range that weigh a lot less and are not made of 1000 cordura.

Jim
Agreed grin

I don't know if I would ever use it, but, being a pack nut, it would be fun to own. The carrying capability on this pack is amazing and I wouldn't be worried of hurting it, that's for sure. However, my regularly used packs are MUCH lighter and less complicated which is very important to me. I just think it's cool wink.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#111220 - 02/13/09 09:45 PM Re: Buying any new gear with new technology? [Re: bigfoot2]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By bigfoot2
I'm gonna' git' me onea' these, just to tick Jimshaw off:

http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/wenger_swiss_...amp;country=USA

BF
I think there's a pocket made specifically for that in the GGR Patrol Pack... cool
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 257 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum