I want to lighten up my gear for this coming season and to buy my missing needs. Down below is my list of current items, and below that some more comments.


As you can see I did most of my shopping at REI, the only store close to me that I can touch and feel stuff.

Tent - Me and my wife don't care for the Tarptent Double Rainbow and would like to try a different Tarptent tent.

Sleeping pad- The pad is long for my needs and would love a shorter one (by atleast 2 feet, I am 6'2"), current pad is like 5ft

Clothing - I don't use my rain gear much, so no real comment on that, but I do need a few items - Gloves and Gators. I never used the Down Vest. Eventually I would like to move to lighter boots for the day hikes but need to find a pair of camp shoes to give my feet a break from the boots.

Kitchen - I would like to migrate to an Alcohol stove, like the White Box Stove, and a Ti pot set (the Jet Boils are great for a day trip and what not, just don't see me liking them for longer trips). The Camp towel I have is huge, I prolly should cut it in to smaller pieces or just a smaller one. I prolly should get a Hard-sided water bottle, or just reuses soda bottles for now.

A few things that I am missing here and there, but what I have will get me by.

I guess I really do not know what I am asking and prolly looking for someone to look over my gear and give me guidance on which way I should be going for gear to lightening up the weight and to complete my kit. I know everyone has different ideas, but I am more of a need for a mentor I guess. I am moving away from pre-packaged camp food and going to freezer-bag style of food. I usually camp with the wife and I carry the tent and we split the food.

I am sure I can go on and on, as I really do enjoy this and wish I could get out more . But I don't want to sound like I am blabbering away, as I feel like I am doing now.

drake

I use the stuff sacks for varius things (atleast the bigger ones) for example: making a pillow at night and keeping clothes warm, make a med kit (didn't include that on total list)

You are right that is my total list, but I had to bring almost all that last weekend when we went down to Del Rio for a 2 day trip

I do have a scale but its a postal scale doesn't weight stuff below a pound vary accuractly.

If you the stuff sacks then more power to you. The only one I keep is for my sleeping bag, and like you, I enjoy the nice little pillow it gives me.

I would certainly recommend buying a scale (or at least borrowing one) in order to get serious about the weight of each individual item. But then again, I'm kinda nerdy about those type of things.

What about lighter, headlamp, toothbrush, toilet paper, etc? - those are items that need to be considered as well... with a scale all of the small details come to the surface. I was surprised at the weight of my boots.

It would help us to evaluate your gear list if we had some idea of where and when you plan to be going out and as nearly exact a gear list for a specific trip as you can provide.

From the list you gave, I can already tell you that you are way over prepared for the Grand Canyon in May. And, if you are planning on taking everything on your list, you would be over-dressed for the Sierra or the Cascades in summer.

I'll second the recommendation that you purchase a set of scales; I recommend one that will weigh up to two kilograms to the nearest gram. You should be able to purchase something like this for $50 or less and it could easily be the best money you will spend. There are 28.35 grams per ounce.

You also need to make some decisions as to how you want to handle things. For example, the tent without liner and footprint is perfectly adequate for most trips. Sure, you can wear the floor out sooner but floors are easy to replace. Is the increased tent life worth the extra pound or so? The liner may keep condensation from your bags but so will a light towel to wipe it off. A sleeping bag liner is a pain in the butt to sleep in, adds weight and simply keeps some dirt from the inside of the bag. Is it worth the weight? A JetBoil is heavy and inflexible; a simple canister stove and pot will serve you better and be lighter. A hip to shoulder ProLite3 weighs 13 oz and is only slightly more comfortable than a trimmed-down 3/8" foam pad at 4-5 oz. Is a bit of comfort worth the extra half pound? (It is to me but I'm an old f@rt). Think about using trail runners rather than boots; they are lighter and a lot more comfortable. And, you don't need sock liners plus you can use lighter socks. Take one pair of underwear and go commando while you are doing laundry. Do you need two vests? What about using your sleeping bag as an insulation layer when you are just laying around camp? While you are hiking, you won't need too much in the way of clothes; the extra clothes are mostly for cold mornings and evenings. Wrapping your bag around you in camp saves weight. I won't go on further, I'm sure you have the idea. I also suspect that a lot of others on this forum will be chiming in with ideas.

Just bear in mind that you don't really NEED a lot of stuff for backpacking. It is easy to decide that you WANT something that you don't really need; especially if you hang around REI much. Check out the gear lists on the portal page of this website for other ideas. Welcome and good luck.

I picked up a small scale at Walmart for under $20, it weighs up to 3 pounds. It's kind of small so some things have to be balanced a bit but overall I feel confident about the weights being accurate. It really helped to keep me honest about what was going into the pack!

I also found a free program online that will allow you to input your items/weights so you have a complete list. Then I just go through and check off what I'm bringing and it will tally the total for you. Here is the link to it http://www.chrisibbeson.com/pages/GearWeightCalculator.html

Millette

Drake,

For the tent, you might try the Tarptent Rainshadow. This is a three-person tarptent that weighs the same as the double rainbow. We own both. The Rainshadow has a lot more interior room and will actually sleep three people, so it's fantastic for two people and all their gear.

We like the Double Rainbow b/c it has two doors, so it's easier to get in and out, and had better views. But we do find it a bit tight for two. I am planning to try it as a solo winter tent next month.

An alcohol stove is light weight, but slow to cook for two people. You can get a lighter canister stove than the Jetboil. The nice thing about alcohol, though, is that you can experiment with the stoves for free -- just make your own. You might consider having two stoves and two small pot/mugs if you do freezer bag cooking with alcohol for two people.

You do have a lot of clothing. That's quite common at first. On our first backpacking trip, I had a change of clothes (jeans!) for each of four days on the trail. Heavy and unnecessary. You can easily find duplication in your clothing list, and as you do more hikes, leave the duplicates at home.

If you really want a super short sleeping pad, you can get a self-inflatable torso pad from backpackinglight.com. Or you can try a 3/4 length Z-Rest pad, and cut off a couple of sections.

I went through the "lightening up" process three years ago, and am still working on it (I don't think it ever stops).

As everyone else has pointed out, your next step should be the purchase of a good scale. For $30 you should be able to find a digital postage scale that weighs up to at least 5 lbs. to the nearest 0.1 ounce, and has a "tare" function. This last is so you can contain large items (like a sleeping bag) without the weight of the containing item, saving you some math. (If you have a single item that weighs over 5 lbs, you probably should get rid of it.) I got mine (which also weighs in grams, but I've never had much of a "feel" for metric measures) at Office Depot. It is the most used item of my gear, even though it never sees a trail, and goes with me every time I go gear shopping (much to the disgust of clerks in the local stores). Don't ever trust manufacturers' weights--many will be understated if not downright dishonest. I've been known to return items (with nasty comments) when this happens.

Step #2 is to set up a gear list on your computer. Be sure everything is on it, down to the last sheet of toilet paper. As pointed out, there are a number of gear list programs out there that you can use, or you can make your own with any spreadsheet software. I use mine to study to see where I can cut further, to evaluate any new gear purchase and, probably most important, to print out a checklist when preparing for every trip.

Step #3 is to study other gear lists for ideas. You'll undoubtedly find items you've left out, items you don't need, or good ideas for alternatives. Check out the articles on the home page of this site as a start. You can access a lot of stuff on Backpacking Light without paying for a subscription (the forums and reader reviews are free). However, at your stage I would stick to lists in 10-20 lb. base weight (total pack minus food, fuel, water) range. Lower weights are possible but you need a LOT of skills to go there. You might want to at least start this step before setting up your spreadsheet, so your model will be similar to the others out on the internet.

I agree that you have too much clothing. Even for the dead of winter, it sounds like too much! Is there ever any occasion on which you would wear all of this clothing at the same time? That's a good criterion for deciding what to take, which you want to evaluate for each trip. The only things I take spares of, and only one of each, are socks and underpants (if I were male, I wouldn't bring the latter). The only clothing item I have that doesn't fit the above criterion is my luxury item, a pair of soft, cuddly fleece socks (1.8 oz.) for sleeping that make my feet sing for joy every night when I put them on.

It is extremely important to keep your critical gear (sleeping bag and insulating clothing) dry at all times. A pack cover won't keep your pack dry in heavy rain (when it runs down your back), nor is it of any use in case of immersion. Stuff sacks, since the opening isn't waterproof, are also of zero use in case of extremely heavy rain (which may collect in your pack) or immersion. I'm not the first person to slip and fall while fording a stream! The possibilities here include a waterproof pack liner, the easiest and least expensive version of which is a 2 mil plastic trash compactor bag. Just check daily for tears or holes and patch (duct tape) or replace when needed. Make sure the bags have not been perfumed, which could attract unwanted wildlife. The other possibility, which I use, is dry bags. I have two, a small one for my insulating jacket, hat and gloves and one for my sleeping bag, base layer and the extra socks. The extra weight over stuff sacks is pretty much the same as the plastic trash compactor bag. Do test the dry bags (turn inside out and run water in them) for leaks before you use them and periodically afterwards. I've found that the latest batch of Sea-to-Summit Ultra-Sil dry bags, which in the past have gotten a lot of bad reviews, now appear to be waterproof--at least the two I bought last spring are. The trash compactor bag, though, is a lot cheaper and works just fine. Use a "candy cane" closure to keep the opening waterproof. Having this will let you eliminate a lot of those stuff sacks and keep your gear a lot drier.

Just a caution--you're not going to find much truly light gear at REI. Their unlimited return policy, already much-abused, IMHO, basically prohibits them from carrying stuff that has to be treated carefully (i.e. not dragged over rocks or thrown off cliffs). They are also awfully good at selling you stuff you don't really need or at selling you the heaviest version of an item. Considering the way they advertise "informed customer service," most of their clerks (and the ones who always wait on me) are woefully inexperienced. Most of the truly innovative, lightweight gear is made by "cottage manufacturers" who started out working out of their basements and garages (although many have expanded a bit). Their advertising is by word of mouth, and they sell via the internet. By searching this forum (go back 2-3 years), you'll find out a lot about them. They have excellent customer service (you'll quickly find out about the one that doesn't). Just check their return policies carefully and abide by them. Yes, you have to pay shipping, including on returns, but it's worth it.

Re the Double Rainbow--if it's just too small but the general design is OK, check out the Six Moon Designs Lunar Duo, which has similar features (two doors, two vestibules) but is a bit more roomy. If you don't mind a one-door front opening, the Tarptent Rainshadow 2, as suggested, is also bigger (the "2" refers to the model, not the number of persons). Both require two trekking poles.

Before purchasing anything more, check out gear reviews on backpackgeartest.org. You can also check the reader reviews (free) on Backpacking Light. And search on this site.

Once you have your total pack weight (including food and water) under 30 lbs, try trail runners instead of boots. I've just done that and find that they support my ankles (not the strongest) as well as boots. I've found it basically impossible to turn an ankle in my Montrail Hardrocks. With trail runners, you won't need camp shoes (just loosen the laces). In the meantime, for camp shoes these are inexpensive and weigh about 2 oz. Make sure they're big enough to go over your socks.

I purchased a scale that would help weight everything. I have also entered everything into the Backpacking Gear Weight Calculator that was suggested to me. I find it to be a nice and easy program to use. I am have not yet figured out how much the food was weighting that I brought with me, but lack of that I am carrying over 40 lbs of stuff wtih me and I have not yet weighed my first aide kit, snacks, tent and other misc items.



I mostly target backpacking in the region of Texas that ranges from the Coastal area down to the south and all the way over to Big Bend area. We try to do things when its typically warmer, rather then when its cold.

I need boots, simply cuase of my ankle needs the additional support. I wear shoes at home, but can't risk rolling my ankle out on the trail and be forced to gimp back to the trail head or stay out longer then planned.

At one point of time I did study lists (about two years ago) hence How I came up with what I have. When I do get an alcohol stove, We will still bring the jetboil burner and compressed gas as a backup burner or if we are in a hurry till we get used to the new style of cooking.

When I was on the trail on the Outskirts of Del Rio, TX I wore everything at one time minus the vest fleece type thing, I am just not a big vest type person. I am accustom though to wear a long sleeve shirt over a short sleeve shirt mainly to help protect against the sun and/or getting bug bites.

First aide kits, has always been very sensitive topic and it seems to change every time I pack one up. Being in the EMS field I typically over pack with some un-needed items, Syringes with saline flushes, IV caths, stainless steel surgical blades, etc etc typically way over board but usually doesn't add to much weight or bulk.

I'll look into those two other tents and see which one I might like, perhaps I could find someone that would want to trade

I appreciate everyone's ideas and tips, its getting me one step closer to a lighter pack.

drake

"Water Platy[us Hydration System 4 Liters 4.00 Empty
Water Platypus 3 Liter 1.30 Empty
Water Water - 3 Liters 105.82 For 3L Platypus
Water Water - 4 Liters 141.10 For Platypus Hydratition System

Total Weight of Selected Items 596.96"

It looks like you are including the weight of seven liters of water in your total. Is that right?

It's usually easier to compare base weights without food and water, since those items vary every day and sometimes every hour.

Also, it would be unusual to carry seven liters of water on most trails.

It definitely sounds like you're on the right track. If you're looking for an interim cooking system until you can get an alcohol stove, you might try the MSR pocket rocket. It weighs 3 oz, runs on isobutane, and costs around $30. That plus a couple of aluminum or titanium mugs will cut a lot of weight out of your cooking system relatively cheaply, especially if you're moving towards freezer bag cooking.

I feel your pain on taking first-aid supplies; I'm in EMS too and there is definitely a strong urge to take a mini-med bag out with me. But if you think about it, even taking along many of those low-weight items leave you with extraneous weight;
1) What would you put into an angio-cath except fluid? A 1-liter bag of NaCl or LR weighs over two pounds. Depending on where you're headed, bringing any sort of IV setup is way overkill, you can get some ALS help pretty shortly (relatively speaking).
2) What does a scalpel do that a providone-iodine prep pad and your pocketknife won't? The airway supplies I carry in my aid kit consists of a CPR mask (the flimsy sheet-type as opposed to the face mask) and the safety pins packaged with a triangular bandage to pin the tongue out of the way if it gets down to it.
3) Bandaging material is easy to come by in the backcountry; cut up some clothes. It's painful when it's your top-of-the-line soft shell or insulating layer (fleece soaks up blood like a sponge), so use theirs
4) Most of the meds we use at work have no real place in the backcountry because you aren't packing the monitoring equipment to guide the therapies. The meds I carry are a small vial of epi 1:1000 and benadryl for anaphylaxis, and a small vial of phenergan to at least keep n/v from progressing to where you can't replace fluids orally, plus some PO NSAIDS and antidiarrheal. That plus a 3cc syringe, one 18ga needle and a couple of prep pads should cover most of your true outdoors emergencies.

Sorry, I kind of latched on to the first aid stuff...it's kinda my thing. Hope this helps, just remember that it's not just having low weight gear, but having low-weight gear that you need.

I typically over pack with some un-needed items, Syringes with saline flushes, IV caths, stainless steel surgical blades, etc etc typically way over board but usually doesn't add to much weight or bulk.

It all adds up! Even using a scale to weight everything, you need to really think through your gear. Try the mindset of multi-use,(not multi-tools etc),gear. If your camping in more fair weather/mild temps, the alcy stove will work great. If you experiment with it at home you shouldn't need to carry a heavy canister stove. 40 plus pounds is Mucho Grande. After you carry that much plus food etc., you will eliminate weight.

Thanks for everyone's reply,

I weighed my items that I normally bring with me minus food and water and I at 15-20 lbs range. I imagine once I get rid of my jetboil setup and dump some of the extra stuff sacks, I'll get down to 15lbs range (pre food-water). So I wasn't all that bad on weight as I thought I was going to be.

As people have pointed out, I still have plenty of room for improvement. I would like to see if I can hit 10 lbs base weight for a summer trip.

I am sure I be posting some more questions, as I am playing around with a few alcohol stove design and keep running into a problem (I can't get all the jets to 'jet' at the same height/pressure)

Once again, thanks for the advice and help!

drake

The first aid kit that you are carrying is way-over-the-top. You'll probably never use most of the items that you listed. Limit your kit to a few bandaids, a needle, some moleskin, and blister care items. The focus of your kit should be on blister care and prevention and should weigh around 1-3 oz. Mine weighs about 1.25 oz. for 3-5 days out in the field. It is built primarily for blisters.
Leave the rest at home.
Oz