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#101641 - 08/24/08 11:06 PM Ebooks.... and Ebook readers.
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Ok, I'll admit, I used to think these were the stupidest thing imaginable. As someone who just about always has an ipod or computer with him anytime but when I'm backpacking, the thought of draggining along more infernal technology just to have something to read seemed to irritate me, and struck me has heavier and dependant on a short battery life than anything else. The thought of something else other than my computer do to this on also seemed kind of wasteful.Perhaps though part of this was due to my own ignorance - I recently had the chance to put my paws on a cheap taiwan made reader. What struck me about it was two things:
1) This thing was *really* light. - I didn't have a chance to weigh it, but it probably weighs a lot less than a paperback book that I typically take. I think it weighted less than my ipod touch.
2) the thing that most impressed me - the screen. Very readable, and the kicker - it consumes no power while displaying a page. The whole device sleeps. The battery life isn't measured in hours, but in number of page turns (8000 for this device, which was a prototype) which is the only time it uses power.

The first thing that actually came to mind to me was backpacking. I love to read after dark in my hammock. I'm seriously considering finding one of these suckers to try. I can take a
lot more books for the same weight as one paperback, and the battery life looks to be
now somewhat reasonble. Wonder how one does in the cold... Anyone out there had any experiences with something like this (as opposed to just using a palm or ipod, etc. etc.)
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#101642 - 08/26/08 03:40 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
GrumpyGord Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
If you find that device please let us know about it. It sounds very interesting.

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#101643 - 08/26/08 06:59 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Kindle 2.0 is due out in October, and will have at least two models that differ in screen size. I like the idea of the Kindle - I foresee a lot of potential in this product, especially if educational textbooks end up on these devices. Imagine swapping a 20-lb. backpack full of books for one reader that weighs less than a pound! Then imagine if there were books-for-rent available online. Something along the lines of Google Books - except that you could rent by the month or buy.

The two big beefs I have with E-book readers is that they are single-purpose devices and are not pocket-size. I've been reading E-books for over 5 years now - first on my PDA, then on my Windows Mobile phone. It's a natural that I use this device to read books, since I'm almost always going to have it when I'm experiencing a "wasted moment". I can't say the same for a Kindle. I can't see a Kindle (even the new versions) as being something I'll tote with me everywhere. I definitely don't see one in my pack in the near future until it does more than just display printed material.

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#101644 - 09/02/08 09:04 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
If it doesn't suck up battery power, do you use a light to view? Batteries for a light would be another issue. I keep a petzel light with me at night in my hammock but use my MP3 player for listening to music and books etc. I only use it for a couple of hours each night and the batteries last for 5 days using the device like that. I fully charge before I leave home and usually have some battery power left when I unpack back home. It's a 6gig sansa referb from woot for 45 bucks. That's the only electronic device that I carry now. I carry 2 extra batteries for my Petzel and that's it.
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#101645 - 09/03/08 03:49 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: chaz]
phat Offline
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Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

In this case yes, you'd use a light to view - just as I do know for my paperback - I simply use my headlamp - or the moon, or the midnight sun in june.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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#101646 - 09/07/08 10:22 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: NiytOwl]
Haiwee Offline
member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 330
Loc: Southern California
I've been looking at both the Kindle and the Sony Ebook. At just 10 ounces or so these units weight less than a single paperback -- and on multiple-day trips I usually carry at least two and sometimes three books. A two gig SD card in a Kindle will hold around 1500 books! I could carry my entire library with me. New releases are relatively inexpensive (around $10), older still-copywrited books are even cheaper (as low as 99 cents), and the classics (Conrad, Verne, Twain) can be had for free.

Does anyone here have one of these toys? Do they charge via USB or is it a proprietary charging unit? Can you purchase additional battery packs? Amazon claims that with the wireless function turned off the Kindle will work for seven days on a charge.

One complaint I've noticed on the Kindle forums is that there is no software provision for filing your books in folders. I'll be interested in what changes they make to the unit for this next release. In any case, I'm definitely putting one of these on my Christmas wish list!
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#101647 - 09/09/08 10:50 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: Haiwee]
Haiwee Offline
member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 330
Loc: Southern California
O.K., now I've done some research, so I'll answer my own questions.

First, Mobile Read is an outstanding web site for anyone new to Ereaders. It has a well-developed forum that should answer anyone's questions about these cool toys.

Second, there are several Ereaders on the market besides the Sony and the Amazon Kindle. The Kindle has a user-replaceable battery (as do many other brands) but the Sony does not. They all get from 6500 to 9000 "page-turns" per battery charge. No power is being used when reading, just for turning the page. However, when listening to music on these devices the battery life is much shorter. The Kindle has had some issues with battery life expectancy; some users report the battery refusing to recharge after as few as two months.

All the units have internal memory and also support memory expansion (either SD card or USB flash drive or both). You can store up to 1500 books on a 2 GB SD card! Most of the units weigh from about six ounces to about twelve ounces. The Kindle is unique in that it features a QWERTY keyboard that allows you to add notes, much as you would write in the margins of a paper book. It also features a built-in dictionary (not sure how important that is -- you can just download a dictionary into any of these toys).

Anyways, I'm going to do some more research, but I'm gonna' get one of these. My days of lugging four pounds of books on multi-day trips will soon be over.
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#101648 - 09/09/08 03:42 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: Haiwee]
Folkalist Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 374
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
I'm eager to hear which one you select and what you think about it. I've been bringing the thinnest paperbacks I can, but sometimes I want to read something that weighs significantly more.
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#101649 - 09/10/08 09:14 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: Haiwee]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Hey. Nice site find Haiwee! I think I'm definatly going to aquire one too - same reasons. I'll
let the board know when I decide and try one out.
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#101650 - 09/15/08 02:31 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
gmagnes Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 562
Loc: Upstate New York
Thanks Phat for opening this topic up. I'd love to know more about the reader you initially wrote about. Is it coming to market anytime soon?
I've not tried ebook reading, but am intrigued by the idea, just not the price of the Kindle or Sony readers. I'll have to check to see what else is available for a more reasonable price on the site that was noted above, I can definitely see bringing one on a backpacking or paddling trip, assuming the battery would last long enough. Last 8 day paddling trip I went to the trouble of xeroxing a whole book (2 sided) and then burnt the pages as I read them. Unfortunately, didn't get moving on it until well into the trip, so wound up carrying it around more than I had planned. I have an iphone (yeah, I'm a sort of a gadget head as well as a gear head), and I'd give that a shot, but so far, it's battery life would probably be too limited to make it really effective on a multi day wilderness trip. Not sure if screen is big enough to make the reading process comfortable. Would like to hear more from folks on this whole topic. Has anyone come up with what they think is a good and more reasonably price alternative to the Kindle or Sony devices?
Gerry Magnes
Schenectady, NY

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#101651 - 09/15/08 05:48 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: gmagnes]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I believe what I had in my hands was from the taiwanese manufacturere of the bookeen:

http://www.bookeen.com/

The basic device is about $350. I know the prices I was hearing coming forward were less, but this was for a deal where we would be picking up several thousand of them...



Edited by phat (09/15/08 05:51 PM)
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#101652 - 09/16/08 02:02 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: gmagnes]
Haiwee Offline
member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 330
Loc: Southern California
Fictionwise makes a product called the Ebookwise 1150 that sells for just $140. It has some drawbacks for backpackers, though. It uses older back-lit LCD technology so it weighs more than twice as much as the Amazon or the Sony units (18 ounces), plus the battery lasts for just 15 hours.

A company called Astak is supposed to be coming to market late this fall with a new five-inch reader retailing for under $200. It uses the same "E-Ink" technology as do the Amazon and Sony pieces. If so, I expect the Kindle and the Sony will have to drop in price.

I suppose with these new gadgets it doesn't matter what or when you buy one: it'll be cheaper and better six months later.
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#101653 - 09/16/08 10:57 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: Haiwee]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Now looking at haiwee's link, I think what I was fiddling with may have been the astak.
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#101654 - 09/24/08 08:31 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: GrumpyGord]
HikerMatt Offline
member

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Michigan
Absolutely, please do. Like a few others, I normally carry 1 or more books with me depending on the length I will be out and how much time I think I will have to read. Normally, I just read during the early evening in camp and when it gets to dark to read by fire light I end up going to sleep.

Even the weight of the device and one set of extra batteries could end up weighing less than 1-2 paperback books.
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http://m-harrison.com

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#101655 - 09/27/08 03:20 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: gmagnes]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Finally vindicated, after inquiring about these Ebooks last year, or was it the year before <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> other folks are now rethinking along the lines of what I had in mind <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Good to know great minds read alike <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Nice site there Haiwee, bookmarked!

Once the competition starts in various companies offering these things up, no telling if we'll be getting one with GPS from Garmin, having Nity call us from his Ebook while hiking, or find out what Gerry's been reading while out doing the lakes <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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#101656 - 10/25/08 02:46 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
It may not be heavier than a book, but then you cannot use the pages for toilet paper when done reading the book, or burn it so you do not have to carry it out!

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#101657 - 10/25/08 05:43 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: wandering_daisy]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Gaack. personally I'd far rather use moss than the nasty pages of a paperback book. and yes, I can't make it smaller by burning it. but otoh, it *can* hold a couple hundred books,
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#109152 - 01/11/09 11:48 AM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
theo Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 4
Loc: TX
For those still interested, I own a Kindle and really like it. However, trying to determine which one is the best is like trying to decide which is the best backpack.

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#109167 - 01/11/09 04:42 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
scottyb Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/08
Posts: 278
Loc: Texas Hill Country
I have been looking at the Kindle and others. Is the wireless funtion worthwhile or is it something you could do without? Also, does it seem to work most places or does it have pretty limited coverage?
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#109172 - 01/11/09 06:28 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: scottyb]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Depends on what it lets you do - if you always indend to plug it into a PC to put books on it, swell. if you want to get onto the ineternet and get content with it without a PC it can be useful.

bear in mind any wireless access will suck battery down hard.

I'm still kinda looking at the bookeen. it
seems to be about the lightest one - at 6 oz,
I'd definately take it in a backpack.

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#109174 - 01/11/09 07:23 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
Phat said: "I'm still kinda looking at the bookeen. it seems to be about the lightest one - at 6 oz, I'd definately take it in a backpack."

Arguably the lightest solution is to get a multi-purpose device. I know that what constitutes an acceptable reading device varies by the individual, but I'm happy reading books on my smartphone, which has a 1.75" x 2.25" screen. This is much less than any dedicated book reader I think, but with cheap and light drug store reading glasses I quickly forget the medium and get lost in what I'm reading. As this device is also my cellphone, GPS, voice recorder, at-need MP3 player, and journaling device, it comes out very lightweight indeed on a per-function basis.

No question, however, that the bookeen or any dedicated reader will make for a more pleasant reading experience, I can only say that the smaller screen works fine for me.
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#109176 - 01/11/09 07:31 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
theo Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 4
Loc: TX
At first, I thought the wireless function was something I could live without, but it is kind of addictive.

The wireless function is through Sprint, so the coverage is based on that. Cruising the Internet is really sl o o o w!

As of now, Kindle is not available outside the U.S.
I made my choice based on the prices of the books. The Cybook Gen 3 was my second choice.

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#109179 - 01/11/09 08:21 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: BrianLe]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Haven't seen a multifunction device yet with a
battery life in the two week and 10,000 page turns range. I'll look at one when I see that.

Realisticly, I always have a book with me. I have a cell phone and leave it turned off. I hardly ever bring a gps - if I did I wouldn't want to waste the batteries reading books on it.

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#109213 - 01/12/09 02:25 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
BrianLe Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
"Haven't seen a multifunction device yet with a battery life in the two week and 10,000 page turns range. I'll look at one when I see that."

I don't see battery life as an issue. I can carry spare (quite light) batteries for my cell phone, and/or a solar charger, and/or charging cord. On the PCT this year, I was never 2 weeks away from a next-resupply point, but that of course depends on the particular trip.

It is true, however, that if I'm feeling on a tight power budget, I might be less willing to read if I fear that as a result I might later be unable to make an important phone call or take pictures or whatever. For my particular trip, it turned out that I didn't have the time and energy to read much on the trail, I mostly read books in trail towns, where I could recharge. It was great, however, to have the book reader functionality included at no extra weight cost.

Per previous, I don't suggest this as a panacea but as an option that might be right for some folks.
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http://postholer.com/brianle

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#119108 - 08/06/09 12:33 PM Re: Ebooks.... and Ebook readers. [Re: phat]
Haiwee Offline
member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 330
Loc: Southern California
Thought I'd bump this thread. Sony has announced a new Ereader, the PRS300, at a much lower price: $199. Still heavier than the Bookeen at almost eight ounces, but the prices of these Ereaders are definitely coming down. The Mobileread forum has a new comparison matrix here that includes most manufacturers latest offerings.
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