What lies underneath your tent?

When setting up my tent I always put a tarp under my tent for condensation. Im not really sure if it works or if it has any use being there. Im also planning a winter trip in WV and not sure how to keep my tent warm from the ground up. Ive heard of digging a foot into the snow where you place your tent, but should I put a tarp underneath or am I causing more problems?? So I guess my main question is What Lies Underneath your tent all four seasons??

dhock
This isn't as clear cut of idea as it may seem. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />There is a NEW concept of "tent footprint" which many have accepted and many do not. I personally NEVER put anything under my tent because it almost always act as a resevoir and funnels water under your tent where it stays on top of a tarp and you will be wetter than with no tarp. If you think you really need something, use a very thin layer of plastic inside your tent against the floor and put your gear on top of it. The old fashioned ground cloth was made of canvas and didnot hold water, of course tents had no floors then - thus you slept on the ground cloth.

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> - Or Not YMMV

It depends on.......

1) The weather.

2) The ground surface.

3) The moisture content of the ground.

4) The type of trip I'm doing. Light and fast=no footprint. Slow and easy=footprint.

If the ground is already dry but heavy rain looks imminent I may not use one. As Jim said, I don't need a big bowl to catch all that water. Even if the edges of the footprint are behind the drip line of the tent. Water will find its way in.

Silnylon tent floors are not truly waterproof. Try sitting or sleeping on silnylon placed over saturated ground. You'll see. So I usually use one under silnylon. Unless I'm going really light, in which case my mindset is to tolerate more discomfort.

I'll usually lay down a thick black plastic (Home Depot) sheet under my tent in the snow.

Relatively clear ground and nothing else.

I DO own a footprint for my MSR Hubba Hubba. However, I only use it when I leave the tent body at home and use just the footprint, poles and fly in cooler weather without bugs. The footprint holds the poles in place.

Otherwise I don't use a footprint. Extra weight.....

Winter - nothing, just the tent bottom.
Outside of winter - a couple feet of air under my hammock <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't like tent footprints. In my experience they just funnel water into the tent. I'm quite happy
with just a regular bottom, or a floorless tent, and just pick the site appropriately. If I'm in
a floorless tent I usually have a groundsheet under my pads. Just a piece of painters poly.

Depends for me on what kind of ground I plan on sleeping on. If I know and the ground doesn't call for it, I'll leave the footprint at home and vise versa. If I'm unsure of what to expect, I'll take it along. Most of the time I take it just because I'm going to new placs most of the time and it really doesn't take up that much space anyway. Plus, I was worried about this when I started using it, my footprint doesn't collect water between the tent and it when it does rain. At least not yet. Luckily the fly goes out enough where the water is unable to get onto it.

I'm am considering very much now looking into a hammock since I'll be moving back home to Idaho in June and it doesn't rain as much there as it does up here in Alaska. I just can't find a decent, compact sturdy hammock. Then again, I haven't been looking too hard yet either. Any recommendations/suggestions by anyone would be welcomed though. I'm assuming it'll be lighter than my tent and maybe more compact as well.

I only camp for 3 seasons, and I usually place my sleeping pad beneath the tent. It's just big enough to protect most of the bottom, and this way I don't need to bring a separate tarp or footprint.

With my Hubba, same as Bearpaw, for pretty much the same reason. One of the things that makes the Hubba heavier than other solo tents is that heavier weight fabrics are used in the floor - but that also eliminates the need for a groundcloth. If the tent is made from lighter weight materials, more vulnerable to abrasion, a groundcloth may be advisable - and some of that weight savings evaporates.

I've never put my tent on the snow, so I've no experience with "digging in". I have put a cheap space blanket under my tent and I use one for a ground cloth when tarping. I believe that it keeps me warmer. It may also be my imagination <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> there's things under my tent <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I use a 2- or 3-mil polyethylene sheet underneath, cut slightly smaller than the tent floor. Mostly, it saves wear and tear on the tent floor, and keeps it cleaner so it requires less attention when I get home. So far, it hasn't collected any water.

The purpose of a footprint in the current configuration of most tents, as I understand it, is to primarily protect the floor from wear and tear. In the past, a footprint, tarp, ground cloth, etc. was needed to give added protection against moisture. Often, however, tarps would gather the water and send it underneath the tent where it would settle and eventually work it's way in to the interior.

I use a footprint only if I'm interested in maintaining and protecting the floor of the tent. Footprints, which are made to be slightly smaller than the floor (so they don't drag water underneath), can be easily replaced, but the floor of your tent is most likely irreplaceable. The tents I've been diligent in using footprints with during their life show very little wear whereas those that I haven't been as diligent with show wearing away of the coatings, abrasion, dirt I can't get out, etc (important to know if you plan on reselling it). One of my treasured tents, an MSR Fusion 2 Titanium (only 100 were made and mine is #5 out of 100) with custom Easton Carbon Fiber poles doesn't hit the ground without a footprint.

Many tents, such as the Hubba Hubba, use the footprint to add to it's value in that you can use the fly, poles, and footprint to create a lighter weight shelter when the canopy (body of the tent) isn't needed.

A footprint won't add any warmth to the interior for winter camping. It will keep the bottom much dryer than if you set it directly on the snow though. The benefit here is that you can pack the wet footprint in a separate place allowing the tent to dry out faster. This is important especially if you are constently packing it going from camp to camp rather than having a basecamp. In the winter, gear tends to get wet and dry out much slower and packing a wet tent can make things pretty miserable.

I would recommend the use of a footprint only if your interested in protecting the tent. Modern factory taped floors of most tents don't need the extra water protection that a footprint, etc. offers. However, if your paying 300+ dollars on your new tent, this small investment is worth it to keep it in pristine condition.

The boogeyman! Nothing. Its heavy enough by itself as I remember. Its been years since it was used, but I never carried a ground cloth. Sierra Designs Clip Flahlight . But, hey man, it was premier in its day. I know it is heavy to todays standard, but my first one was a first run - and back then it was considered tiny and light in my circle of friends. You could pitch that tent, and I did, in a low spot and it would just float on the water. It never leaked -ever. A friend bought my first one and still uses it as his primary and only tent. I tarp now so I use either visqueen, bivy, or tyvek. I made and oversized, 11 ounce, bivy that is 70d pu coated bottom and dwr ripstop top. I use it sometimes. It is nice because its big enough to lay on as a ground sheet, or if it gets too cold I can get in it and use it to boost the bags range. I made it for a spring trip in which I plan to take my quilt and for winter and dog use.

So I guess my answer is - tent - nothing but what the ground offers.

Tarp - depends on the forcast, trip length, is the dog coming, weight

Is the dog coming? How does this play in - well, when you are asleep
and the dog goes wading in the creek or walking in the rain and comes back to snuggle/ midnight wrestle -- you better have some sort of overbag or bivy to protect your bag. Trust my wet self on this one.

In my younger days, I used a ground cloth and when it rained everything got wet, so I had to tear everything down and lay it out on the rocks to dry. If I use one now, I just bring it inside the tent. I use a ground cloth to save wear and tear on the tent, plus on summer trips, I have a floorless Tarptent so the super ultralight groundcloth is my floor at around 3-4 oz. In the snow, sometimes I bring a ground cloth sometimes I don't.

I like to protect that part of my tent floor that takes my weight. I don't like the idea of sand, small rocks and the like grinding away at the floor under-surface while I move around in my sleep. To that end, I take a plastic leaf bag, cut the sides off to open it out and then trim to about 20" x 70"; weighs about an ounce. After a few days of use, they get small holes in them. But, I don't have it there to keep water out, just to protect the fabric floor. It is surprising how well one of these will hold up. Also, they don't seem to have the same degree of static cling as Tyvek or sheet polyethylene. Since it is much smaller than the tent floor there is no problem with water collecting on the plastic sheet.

This is my practice, as well. Cut smaller than the tent floor but with a vestibule extension, it works perfectly and weighs only 6 oz. I had bought the 'footprint' that goes with my Sierra Designs tent but used it only once, as it's both heavier [13 oz] and more cumbersome to set up.

So, to add to jason, would a small non-waterproof footprint be better than a waterproof one. Then, you protect to bottom of your tent, and you (hopefully) don't flood your tent when it rains. Maybe 2 oz breathable polyester ripstop or something else breathable than doesn't hold water. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

All the footprints MSR sells are identical floors to the tents they are designed for. They have the same coatings and use the same materials. I've been in some wet conditions in the Wind Rivers, Uintahs, Colorado Rockies, etc. and have never had any issues with water getting pulled underneath the tent. This is because of the cut of the footprint (about 6 inches smaller than the actual floor). This is super important if you are considering making your own.

By using a non-waterproof footprint, you allow the water to be drawn through it wetting down the bottom of the tent. I would rather deal with a wet footprint than a wet canopy. Because of the location of the footprint (underneath a non-breathable, poly coated floor and on top of a wet ground) a non-coated polyester footprint will not breath. Instead it will get saturated with moisture and draw that moisture to the bottom of the tent. This is the thing you don't want. It's always best to have a durably coated, totally waterproof, non-breathable footprint.

Very well explained jason thanks <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Now, back to what's lurking under my tent...anyone care to take a look fer me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Never pitch a tent over a hole; you may find a hole in your tent floor by morning. If the inhabitant was running around the tent in the night, though, it never woke me up.

Technically, nothing since I don't have a tent, but under my bivy I have one of these...

Gossamer Gear Polycryo ground cloth

The page states that it is tough and I have to agree whole-heartedly. They come in packs of two and I've been using the first one for two seasons now. I don't use a groundsheet for waterproofing reasons, but more to keep the stuff that may puncture the bottom of my bivy away.

peace.
ryanc

Pretty comical actually Ryan don't ya' think...."These sheets will shrink in hot weather, even if not in direct sunlight.." "Geeze Honey?, I swear when i packed this groundsheet it WAS big enough for both of us <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Guess you'll have to sleep over there tonight eh?" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I wonder if the shrink wrap in white that they use to winterize boats would be more durable <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> This is almost the time of year for those folks to come out of hibernation <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I'll start take'n my walks down around the boatyards and scrounge some up. SHould beat Tyvek by a mile for weatherproofness <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Or what about those rolls of film they sell at UHaul and other moving places to wrap furniture and all to protect it during moving? Has to be pretty puncture proof to jostle around in a moving truck, what with all those sharp things back there <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Another venue to look to for cheap backpacking goods <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You won't get much better water protection than tyvek as it water proofs every house made in America. Or at least some version of the same stuff. I have used tyvek for years a never once has it gotten me wet. I use it as a ground cloth under my tent and it only weighs around 3 oz.Hope that helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

.5 - 2 mil painter's drop cloth depending on conditions....

I find that light of weight filmy painters cloths really a bear to put down in wind or rain, and then pack afterwards all wet and covered in debris IME. What brand have you found that works better than this?

FYI: Tyvek is not waterproof, merely water resistant.

It has to have some level of breathability for use on houses to allow internal moisture to escape the boundries of the structure.

Painters plastic is ultimately a better option.

So, I've either never noticed it or I've been fortunate enough for it not to happen yet. That being said, if it did shrink per their measurements, it would still probably be enough to cover the bottom of my bivy.

Regardless, given my new (still less than 1 year since I moved) location, most places I go are cold or wet or both <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

peace.
ryanc

TYVEC!

3 buck's for my footprint........try it.

When I used tents with floors, I used nothing underneath floor.

My most heavily used tent, at the end, had a floor that resembled mosquito netting. It was transparent. Beach sand was probably the most damaging. A rough estimate is, that this happened after four to six months of total usage.

I still use a floored tent at times, and still don't use additional protection, though this is, in a way, perhaps foolish.

In general, however, don't currently use a tent with a floor. My main coverage has been tarp tents, in particular MSR Twin Peaks, GoLite Hex and the SilShelter. I enjoy the fact that their floors will never wear out.

In the past few years, I've even given up on groundcloths. Instead I mainly rely on the waterproof bottom of a sleeping bag cover. Provided site isn't terribly muddy, this works fine. Sleeping pad goes inside cover, and is thus protected.

I have camped many times in the snow and rain and have always used tyvek and have never gotten wet. I have a friend that is a housing contractor and he says that some of the tyvek is water proof and can still breathe. I get all that I have from him. I hope he is making sure that I get the water proof type because I have never gotten wet sleeping on it. Hope that helps...Happy Trekking....sabre11004....


The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I also have some of their product and like you say it has to be the toughest thinnest plastic that I have ever used for backpacking or camping..I have never even un-wrapped the second pack of the stuff...Hope that Helps....Happy Trekking. sabre11004....

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

A footprint made for the tent usually. Hopefull not over a shallow grave, fireant nest, or even worse a shallow grave and a fireant nest. That would in fact suck.


Tom