Man.. I'm not worthy! - Great Divide Trail...

Some of you might enjoy reading this, which just got put up by Will Tarantino AKA ponyexpress.

http://www.willpowerresearchfund.com/pehiker/GDThome.html

of particular note, you might notice section from Jasper to Saskachewan Crossing:

http://www.willpowerresearchfund.com/pehiker/GDT/GDT2.html

I actually crossed paths with him at Four Point campground this summer when I took Mrs. Phat out on her first ever backcountry overnighter. (interstingly, he thought she was my fiancee because it was her first trip, not that it took me 22 years of marriage to get her to sleep in a tent with me )

However the neat part is comparing the speed. This section is my regular stomping ground - You'll notice from the journal, it's covered in 5 days of hiking.. However at my pace:

http://pics.obtuse.com/skyline2007
http://pics.obtuse.com/skyline2008
http://pics.obtuse.com/skyline2011

connected to..

http://pics.obtuse.com/maligne-nigel-2010

and finally to...

http://pics.obtuse.com/whitegoat2010

.. which even if I strung them together nice would be a good 9 or 10 days for me.. going quick..

I'm not worthy!

I've heard so many long-distance hikers say that they went too fast. In fact, many of them have a bit of depression when ending just because they realize that they could have spent another 1-3 months out there without a real problem.

So, I don't think that you're not worthy. You could do that too, if it was your daily pursuit. However, I think that walking "slowly" compared to those speedsters has it's benefits.

It's just a different style. HYOH. When you start comparing yourself you lose the magic. And hey, Phat... congrats on getting the Mrs. out! I hope she had a great time and would like to continue sharing that part of life with you.

(good grief, those pictures are awesome!)

WoW!! Love that area. So I take it there are 6 sections all told to the Great Divide Trail. This is another trip my wife won't want to go on. She doesn't want to share the trail with grizzlies.

Shoot, you already done it (or parts of it) and had a good time. Ergo, you are worthy.

Did you take a picture (2008) of a cartoon "turd" waving? Is that what that is? I suppose everyone needs a mascot but ...

Yeah, "Lumpy" is the cartoon turd on the new style backcountry biffies instructing people how to not abuse them.

On the AT there is an often quoted saying: "If you are in such a big hurry, why are you walking?"

Some backpackers are so driven that they think they've got to get from Bug Bog to Blister Pass in 3 hours flat. (That's an indirect quote from the late Harvey Manning.) Thru-hikers at least have some excuse for that mentality, in that they have a limited amount of time to finish the trail between snowmelt and the onset of winter. While I admire what they do, that's just not my style of hiking.

I personally like to go slow (phat and a few others here know how slow!), admire the views, smell the flowers, take pictures or just sit and soak it all in. For me, a backpack trip is a vacation, not a speed or endurance test! It's an occasion to unwind from the stresses of "civilization."

Schedules, high mileage (aka productivity), efficiency--that's part of what I leave behind!

Your Mileage, of course, May Vary.

Now that's my style too. On my last trip, with no destination in mind, every step I took seemed to invite me to take ten more and check something out a bit closer, so I did. I spent three days wandering around like that, and it was pure pleasure.

Okay, so here's another quote, "Haters got to hate"
Sorry, couldn't resist ...
But I do think it's unnecessary to put down one approach to backpacking even if it's a bit different than your own. ?


While I have heard and read this sort of thing several times from folks who don't do long trips --- about having heard this sort of thing from long distance hikers --- on three different long trips now I've never heard it from another thru-hiker. I'm not saying that it's never expressed (how could I know ...), just that I don't think it's any sort of common sentiment, and in fact I suggest that such a feeling might be quite rare. You can't spend months and months on the trail where a variety of other thru-hikers are most of your socialization without getting to know the breed pretty well. It certainly is diverse, but this sort of comment just doesn't seem like the sort of thing I would expect to hear from any that I've met.

There certainly can be a sort of depression when the trip is over (doubtless part of why I spend some time on forums like this ...), but it has nothing to do with having gone "too fast" or the like.

I think it's all good. To be clear, on the flip side I definitely do not subscribe to the view the thru-hikers are some special group to be treated with awe or anything like that (!). It just seems to me that we should each of us just go the pace that makes us happy, and be happy for others who optimize for different things.

I know nothing about the route that Phat took, but from a quick look it seems like a pretty cool place to hike through at any pace.

[quote=BrianLe
Okay, so here's another quote, "Haters got to hate"
Sorry, couldn't resist ...

[/quote]

And I think that its unnecessary to call someone a hater for suggesting that taking the time to enjoy an endeavor would increase the enjoyment. But since you have already said "Sorry", I accept your appology.

Actually, I'm not judging based upon style - the route I took, and ponyexpress's route, are the same, so I know *exactly* where he's walking. For me it's the closet thing to church.

Some of it I have done at a blistering pace for me, that maligne hike I did 28 km with two passes in a day, that's a big day. In spite of that, with a light pack, I *thouroughly* enjoyed it.

all you need do is read his trail journal to realize where his head is - it's not in making the miles - he's just fit enough to do it about, oh, at least 1/3 faster than my best pace, and *still be in the zen zone out there*, just as I am.. That, well, I find that cool.

I'm going to chime in with a few thoughts...

I don't think there was anything derogatory in the "If you are in such a big hurry, why are you walking?" remark, it sounds like something a local would say to folks asking how long to the next point a lot. I'd suspect those living along the AT might be asked that a lot. But I offer that when it's said, it's said in jest, not in contempt.

I've certainly regretted going too fast on trips, especially when I finished earlier than I figured, and I've commented here on getting depressed when having to go back to real life, though, as you said, it wasn't because I went too fast, it was because I lived in the city and had to go back to work when I returned

I've often wondered myself how through hikers can zoom by so much so fast. I understand the goal of a through hike, and I truly admire those who work at it, but I've just never had that urge, not even a smidgeon of one, and it's a very different attraction to getting out than mine, and a very different experience too considering how much of what we do and use is the same.

But there is a sort of tension between these styles. There has been for a very long time. I was a part of it myself, and you're right, there shouldn't be. There's no good reason for it.

I've never been able to put "thru-hikers" on any pedestal to gaze up on, and I have met a few that I thought expected that, and at one time I considered all those who "had to do 20 miles a day" a peculiar type of snob and I let it color my attitude towards them.

Over the years I also met a few that would have never mentioned it had the subject of hiking not come up somehow, and because we had so much common ground, and such different approaches to enjoying it, I was forced to lose my prejudice and appreciate our differences instead. I realized that I too had to be a peculiar type of snob by holding on to them. And I realized why I had been too.

Brian, I really enjoyed following your trip this year. Blogs like yours have enabled me to better understand what motivates you guys without feeling like your putting me down.

I still think you guys are kind of weird but I realized that you're not at all motivated by making me feel wimpy, and that's truly the root cause of the tension when it exists, at least it was for me. It's easy to let oneself be intimidated without cause. It's silly too.

"If you are in such a big hurry, why are you walking?" is hillbilly humor. It's often followed up with "You can't get there from here." There's no harm intended, just poking fun.

Boy, you'll get no arguments out of me!

I admit that I might be a little sensitive on this topic; it just seems that I've run into a number of cases of folks who otherwise seem to be firm believers in HYOH nevertheless opining that thru-hikers do it "wrong" or at least in some significantly sub-optimal way. Fast trekking is one style of hiking, and sort of like having different tools in a toolbox, I do enjoy setting up a basecamp and having an easier outdoor lifestyle too. Different hiking styles for different situations.

In terms of the "slow down" remark, just please believe that I've heard this said more than once in a not-so-joking fashion. There just seems to be this stereotype of thru-hikers treating the trail like a freeway, walking hell bent for leather with blinders on trying to "make their miles" no matter what the cost. Once does of course try to keep track and make it through certain key points based on weather or other dynamics, but it isn't like the negative stereotypes at all. In any case, receiving ad hoc trailside lectures on how I should slow down because I'm clearly not hiking the way the lecturer feels is appropriate --- well, it can be difficult remaining polite.

Apologies if anyone took my "haters" quip seriously; it was not intended as anything but, perhaps, a humorous over-the-top comment. This sort of thing often doesn't come across as intended via the internet. Some day I'll learn to control all of my impulses (within another 50 or so years, I'm sure I'll have it down) and realize that a smiley emoticon doesn't necessarily have the impact on the reader that was intended by the sender.

I just want to say that I've met a lot of through hikers and there are as many types of through hikers as there are people. I have only encountered one or two that thought that calling themself a through hiker gave them special privileges (and they probably act that way no matter what they do, so it has nothing to do with hiking one way or another). I've also met a lot section hikers who are hell-bent for miles who have planned an ambitious route and allowed only a few days.

Hiking "fast" is its own form of athleticism. Hiking "slow" is its own form of asceticism. Those fit enough to hike fast can hike slow if they choose to. If they haven't tried it, I think they are missing something special. But that doesn't mean that they need to change what they enjoy. Many of us who hike slow aren't physically fit enough to hike fast without injuring ourselves. So we don't have the capability to experience that form of enjoyment.

...and I love hillbilly humor.

And I think Pappy, it's comments like this that annoy people. I've done both. You are completely assuming that you can't be ascetic out there going fast.. Horsecookies. I've done it, and I've seen people do it. HYOH

I agree with Phat there. I've done it too. I still prefer moderation though. That's my style.

What are horsecookies? Are they the big cookies that I find in the horse pastures?

I'm sorry. You both have assumed that I meant that athleticism and asceticism are mutually exclusive. They are not and I did not intend to imply that they are. What I meant was hiking 20+ miles in one day is athletic. To be able to enjoy the ascetic aspects while doing it requires a certain level of physical fitness. Plus, athleticism has its own enjoyable aspects which also takes a certain level physical fitness.

However, there are ascetic rewards that backpacking can bring to anybody. Sometimes that requires a slower pace, a shorter distance, or a flatter trail. There is no reason why somebody in tip-top condition can't enjoy a less challenging hike, but the flip-side of the coin is not true if the challenge pushes someone too far beyond their limits.

By the way, that's another reason for keeping your gear light--it increases the options you have at any given fitness level.

I Agree with Bill in that I did not find PappyBanjo's comment anything other than funny.

All the fast packers I have run into have been great to talk to and fairly free with information. There is something to be said for setting a goal, working toward it with training and planning, then executing. At 55 I am still able to push myself relatively hard and successive 20plus mile days are still within my grasp. What can I say? Coming from a competitive background it just feels good to test myself. And i can tell when i need to slow down; or for that matter, just stop. But I certainly do not do this while dragging my family around. There are plenty of times I just like to explore an area. The idea that someone is dissing someone else's style is just ridiculous to me. As long as they are good stewards of the region, that is really all that matters.

What's your style? The art of hiking without hiking.

" I Think" A lot of it has to do with a persons natural stride. I find it awfully annoying to walk slow. But as a father and husband I am bound to often. It doesn't been I enjoy the hike less just for different reasons.

I have a friend I regularly hike with who is pushing 7' tall and all legs who I practically have to jog behind to keep up. If I ask him to slow down he responds he already has.

Some people just walk faster than others. Doesn't mean we enjoy the hike any less

Samoset, that is funny. My mom once told me she would entertain herself by counting the strides I took before I was out of sight again. I was 6'5"; still have long legs.

I have a great respect for through-hikers. They are an elite set of backpackers and have worked very hard to acomplish what they do. It is a lot more than atheticism- successful through-hiking takes a committment, excellent planning, mental toughness and the patience of Job going through some of the less spectacular stretches. I think there is a little envy when I hear others belittle their style. I do not have to be a through-hiker myself to really enjoy reading their journals. Keep up the good work!

I'm with wandering daisy on this. For many thru-hikers their burning desire is to hike the entirety of a spectacular long trail, one that is doubtless a national treasure, whether it is the Appalachian Trail, PCT or CDT.

For most of these hikers, it's either do it all at one swoop, or drop the ambition. Hiking the entire trail by sections takes just as much drive and commitment as doing it in one season and it is far simpler to devote five consecutive months than 15 or 20 years of two-week increments.

Once you add up all these factors, hiking about 20 miles a day is just the natural outcome. You can't really do it any other way. So they do. I take my hat off to them.

I agree, Daisy. I wrote, in another thread, about a trip to Grayson Highlands in December that we bailed out of halfway through. Two of us were recreational hikers, and two had thruhiked the AT. Because of the trail conditions, we recreational hikers were outside our comfort zone (thus the bailout), but I got a good chance to see the thruhiker "mentality" (for want of a more accurate word) in action. It left me in total awe of what they do; they faced obstacles routinely, and overcame them with originality, improvisation, and acceptance ("the trail is what it is.") And, when they realized we were in over our heads, they never once complained about us forcing them to cut the trip short.

They do have a different take on the trails than we recreational types have; they have different experiences. Their style, their attitudes, and their experiences are very different from ours - but no more or less valid or meaningful.

As I said, I stand in awe of what they do - and have no desire to duplicate it.

Boy, how a discussion can turn so completely; sorry to have (overreacted and) been part of hijacking this one on your experience, Phat!


I think this is really true; the commitment I see from folks that for whatever reason are restricted to doing a section per year is pretty amazing. I really think section hiking is harder in a lot of ways; you're just getting into trail shape when the trip is over, so you have to sort of start over each time. This includes not just muscles/joints/tendons but also blisters and things like level of suntan and so forth. You have to figure out your particular gear list for each trip and inevitably not get all of it just right to start out. Logistics are a big PITA each trip. Often it means negotiating the right chunk of precious vacation time from family each time.

What I'm in particular awe of just now are people who stay in good shape and keep their diet (food intake) under control with all of the pressures of "normal life". I'm absolutely serious about this. My college roommate, also mid-50's, just got his black belt in tai kwon do last year, having only started a couple years before. He works out regularly and stays just incredibly fit all the time.
I haven't figured out "normal life" yet.

thread drift's pretty normal around here.. it's what makes conversation interesting. it's ok

Im chimming in a bit late here I am kinda slow! I hike kinda slow two,take lots of photos etc. I do have a strong desire to tru hike though. My goal is the AT. I am not arrogant enough to think I will complete it tru, but if I get stronger as I go and it feels right? Why not. My plans are after I retire in 6 years. My wife may hike sections with me and support me, but tru hiking is not for her. I have to respect this and truthfully being without her will be the hardest part! We have been together since I was 17 and her 15. 30 years married in Sept 04 2012!
I have talked with quite a few tru hikers in GSMNP over the years. Most never made it but a few did. Many just do it to Socialize I think? They are for the most part a different breed! However, can you imagine the feeling of acomplishment summiting Katadin that final day? Or Springer if a SOBO?
This truley must be a feeling of acomplishment and self fullfilment! It takes 14.2 miles a day average with one day a week off. This can get ya there in 5 monthes, If I calculated correctly! Injurys and extra days off add up fast! A pace needs to be maintained. Is it failure to section hike it? I dont think so, but dang I wanna tru! I love to smell the coffee in the morning, but I have to try! Will another trail call if I am succesfull? Maybe? One thing I know for sure!
If I Try And Fail, I will Feel Better Than Not Trying At All!!!
Happy Trails!