whats the BEST sleeping pad?

Anyway after reading this kind of post for years - ha ha - I need to replace my Warmlight Down Airmattress (DAM) with something more durable, inflateable, insulated for winter use, and useful down to zero F. I have an insulated Big Agnes pad and I consider it totally inadequate for winter. I really want to stay under 3 pounds, under 2 better. Oh I have a sort of messed up back and I really liked the 3" thick DAM. Oh yes I always use one of the fan fold closed cell pads under it for a backup in case of an air leak.
Reccomendations?

The new neoair's (coming in January) are supposed to have really high R values and be lightweight. Also, Kookabay makes down insulated mats that are supposed to be pretty grand.

I'd pair a full-length CF pad and a short Neoair. Warmth, comfort and the main insulation is disasterproof. Total weight could be kept to a pound and a half, or so.

Cheers,

RickD thanks for that. How cold of weather have you used this combination in. You would only have a closed cell foam pad under your legs? As I said I always carry the fan fold CF pad anyway, but I would NEVER consider it as a primary insulation for serious winter work.

I think in the winter - the insulation under you should not be skimped on for weight savings. This is why I carried a 27 ounce down air mattress DAM for 20 years, but the valve assembly on the warmlights is prone to failure in deep cold and I've torn 2 out. Maybe I need to put a custom filler valve on my old DAM.
Jim

I use one of these, but it is freaken huge and I'm thinking about replacing it with something else:

http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=20

It doesn't provide cushioning, but does seem to insulate.

Here's a discussion on backpackinglight on the new neo-air with a 5.7 R-value: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/...thread_id=51637

at the end is a comparison with kookabay.

Hi Jim,

I've relied on some variation for pretty much all my winter camping (swapping the individual bits as time went on, going back as far as ensolite). With the particular pad and mattress I have in mind, I'd rely on them to single digits with no hesitation, and probably to zero or beyond--but I haven't been that (un)lucky.

I always use a short pad for 3 seasons, along with a pillow of clothes and a jacket &/or pack under my feet, so I'm used to it. My current foam pad is a POE (model unknown) that's quite warm by itself, so even on snow I'm not going to get cold. The downside is it's a roll-up pad that has to go outside the pack. It weighs less than a pound. FWIW Z-rests simply aren't warm enough for me.

The standard Neoair is good to 20 by itself. It's more comfortable and warmer than a BA insulated Air Core. I don't yet know anybody with a Neoair all season but I'll take them at their word on the uprated R-value.
After three seasons mine has had zero failures.

Cheers,

Rick, the NeoAir is rated to freezing, and I started getting cold on it in the upper 30's. You must be really warm-blooded!

Jim, to replace a down mat I'd suggest another Stephenson, an Exped Down Mat, or contact KookaBay (use the "contact" page on their web site) about their custom down mats.

If your current mat is OK except for the valve, I would think that replacing the valve, if possible, would be far less expensive than a new mat!

I'm not what I'd call warmblooded and the standard NeoAir has been fine below freezing for me.

Not sure about winter - thinking downmat for that, or the 0 degree mylar lined underquilt.

Jim, I've used my short NeoAir with a thick ccf pad snow camping at Dewey Point a couple years ago. Did fine, but after two nights when I packed my gear, you could see the slick, slightly melted spot where I had slept. You can get by.
Duane

The BEST mat is IMHO the Exped Downmat. They come in 7cm and 9cm thickness, and the 9cm has a R-value of 8. Normal foam pads about an inch is just 2 in R-value.

I have the 7cm and in addition I have the Z-lite foam. We use the z-lite to sit on when taking a break. Because of the bubbles any snow that slides on to this does not end up under you. On flat pads it does. http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf then search for downmat.

The only problem is that it raises the person 4 inches, and on some tents with sloping endwalls the feet could end up into the canvas.

I sleep like in my own home bed on the Exped Downmat. For a person like me way over the youth (64) I value some lux, and a good night is one of those.

The HEAVIEST and most comfortable is the Exped. So better for winter, maybe, but I'll keep taking my 13 oz inflatable, thanks.

Lori,
I carry far fewer individual items than I used to think was necesary. Most of my gear is 15 to 30 years old, and its the same stuff that I've used over that time, I just take less and less of it. Its not difficult for me to go out on skis with an overnight pack and breakfast with a 25 pound pack plus my ski clothes - meaning the light under layer, boots etc, with the warm stuff in my pack. One of the ways that I achieve light weight is by extremely expensive SPECIALISED gear that I've bought over time, like my REI 32 ounce goretex down bibs with full zips and built in gaiters [ fully seam sealed], a discontinued Marmot 40 ounce goretex expedition coat and a Bibler tent. Cram it into a huge light spectra pack without any stuffsacks along with my WM winter bag - goretex and seam sealed of course. The point is - specialised gear is expensive but far lighter than layering or doubling up gear not designed for winter ski camping. Layering is HEAVY. The lightest garment is two thin pieces of nylon with feathers between them.

I've stepped out of my tent in minus 5 F and 50 mph wind gusts [-60 windchill] and sat in blowing snow wearing my long underwear, gloves, goretex bibs and goretex exped coat and been toasty warm for about 20 minutes while I melted snow and made breakfast. But then thats another story...

Otto
Thank you very much for that Otto. Coming from you, that advice is pretty golden. I'll look into the eped mat. I told my wife I need a replacement for my Warmlight for Christmas. Otto I guess you approve of the valve and filling procedure for the airmattress? And its not required to inflate it all the way, so you are not lifted 4 inches - try partially inflating it so you sort of float in it rather than being suspended above it. I found my DAM more cuddly this way. As I say I use the fanfold mattress under it so if my hips do push through the airmattress, they still have insulation.
Jim

I said nothing that warranted that lengthy lecture - in fact, I believe I said that an Exped is a great choice for winter camping.

Still keeping my 13 oz inflatable for 3 season use, however. Because it works for the purpose I have for it, and it weighs less. Use the tool that works for the job you have for it has always been my motto.

If you want to replace it with something either as good or better, then either look at another warmlite, or an exped, or the kookabay. Basically what OM said. My next inflatable will probably be an exped.

My Exped 9 is like sleeping on my bed at home. Pure heaven..........if you're willing to accept the weight and bulk.

Trail runner
Hi Haven't heard from you in a while.
I do like the exped - kinda heavy but but the problem is it has the same type valve that I've ripped out of my warmlight twice trying to open it. The weight and the crummy valve makes me shy away from the $200 price tag.

I like the neoair valve and would rather carry 2 of them than an exped, but I do like the 3" thickness of the Warmlight.

Anybody ever try to put a different valve on an airmattress and had it work for a decade? I mean it took 20 years to destroy the warmlight, but it was always a pain in the ass to fill and the valve isn't reasonable.
Jim

IN the use of different products, have you compared R value, weight and costs. Here we are just going into a two plus feet of snow storm and it would be a good time to test out some ideas. Have you tried to use a solar blanket on top and on bottom of the sleeping bag.

Hi Twinmike
you said, = "Here we are just going into a two plus feet of snow storm and it would be a good time to test out some ideas. Have you tried to use a solar blanket on top and on bottom of the sleeping bag."

Solar blankets are generally very air tight sort of things. One time a very long time ago I put a space blanket over my sleeping bag and it was soaking wet from the inside when I got up. Sleeping bags need to breath to eliminate your persperation. If you are experimenting with these space blankets for the purpose of extending summer gear into the winter, you are on a fools errand.

You can extend summer down bags by putting one inside of another. Only its ugly if you toss and turn a lot. You get sort of a panty wad going.

Priorities: mine of course.
1) Durable - no valve that can fail or rip out - materials.
2) Thickness - ability to "float" in it
3) insulation value - good for winter - down?
4) easy to fill in a tent in a storm
5) large enough to use as a major summer floatation device which will keep me high and dry above a cold lake.
6) weight
7) cost

Jim, check out the latest posting in the Buy/Sell forum.

This may not give any really relevant information to Jim, since he wants to go down to zero, but I just spent 2 nights sleeping on the 66" NeoAir All-Season pad in high-teen to low-twenties weather in Virginia, on ground that had been cold for a while. I didn't actually sleep on the snow or exposed rock, but there was still snow on the ground in a lot of spots. I was in a full-net Carbon Reflex tent, with the fly buttoned up; the wind blew hard both nights, and a little of it made it into the tent.

The NeoAir really impressed me. I never got cold, in the sense that you could feel the cold seeping up through the pad. (I share Jim's low opinion of the BA Insulated Air Core pad; I felt myself getting cold at 35 degrees on it one night.) In fact, quite the opposite: you could actually feel your body heat being reflected back up to you. One other person in our party was using the same pad in the 72" length, and he reported the same results.

When you first lie down on the pad, or when you shift positions so your legs or feet are on a spot that wasn't previously covered, the pad feels cold; but in less than 30 seconds, you feel the heating effect start. (It's that same kind of warm "glow" you get when you first put on a wool sweater or down jacket - I've never gotten that "glow" with fleece.)

So, to at least 15 degrees, I'll endorse the NeoAir All-Season.

I spoke with Jane at stephensons warmlight. I'm not the first person to rip out the neoprene valve in the cold. She said that holding it against your body until it warms will save the valve. I thought of some warm water in a ziplock bag. I also thought of Janes picture in the catelog ...

Anyway Jim will be getting a new Stepensons DAM down air mattress for Christmas. I will be getting the 24 ounce size. I currenlty have the big one at 27 ounces.
Jim