Coyote Attack

Posted by: Rick

Coyote Attack - 10/28/09 07:18 PM

This is a very disturbing story. I post it here wondering whether there have been other similar cases that others may know of.

There have been suggestions that these animals may have been coydogs or rabbies may have been a factor. Suffice to say there are many unanswered questions at this point.

CBC News
Halifax Chronicle Herald
Yahoo news
Posted by: Rick_D

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/28/09 07:49 PM

It's a shocking and sad event. I have never heard of a similar attack and will be very interested to hear what the biologists have to say, if they ever figure it out.

Suffice to say I see them occasionally and coyotes are always quite shy, unless they're preoccupied with finding their next meal. They're usually pretty small around here, which isn't the case everywhere.
Posted by: phat

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/28/09 09:29 PM

"carry a knife"

good god. I bet this twit knows nothing.. sorry.. I can't forgive that advice.

I also have never heard of a (non rabies releted) coyote attack.

I definately *have* heard of people here having rabid coyotes go after them, although never more than one. At least in alberta (I don't know about down east) rabies is endemic in the bat population and surfaces semi regularly in coyotes.


Posted by: Dryer

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/28/09 09:42 PM

Oh pleeez....we have 5 coyotes that frequent my park, in my back yard, sing to us often, and are by far the most well behavd dogs in the park. I can't imagine an attack.
We've had coydogs too. My vote goes to coydogs.
Posted by: phat

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/28/09 09:46 PM


Yes dryer, but rabies *does* make them a bit crazy..

Having said that coyotes are the last thing I ever worry about. up here I like listening to them sing. although I bet I can do things you can't do with your coyotes..

Mr coyote is deathly afraid of wolves. for good reason. wolves will kill coyotes as a direct competitor.. So what's really neat up here when I get a pack of coyotes singing is to listen along and when you decide to go to bed, just give a good wolf call... instant silence... (seriously!) - Not sure it would work down there - you don't have the wolves.

Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/28/09 10:06 PM

Wow, that is odd. I've had two close encounters with coyotes in the past couple weeks. I was sitting alone by our fire ring in the forest behind out house after my wife, kids, and some friends had left after a cookout and a pack came by, probably after smelling ribs and hotdogs. I didn't see them because it was pitch black dark out, but they were only about 100 ft away when they all started yipping. I turned my headlamp on and pointed their direction and they lit out in an instant. I barely heard a rustle when they did.

The other was last friday when one by himself came into our front yard to see if he could snatch one of our chickens. Our dogs saw him and chased him off.

It's legal to kill coyotes here. Not many people hunt them for sport, but some do. Right now there are far too many living nearby us and it has occured to me that I might have to shoot a few before too long. I thought I might try to pop them with a paintball gun first to see if they'd relocate on their own.

This is the first time I've heard of more than one attacking a person though. Weird.
Posted by: bigb

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 06:51 AM

Coyotes have circled my camp at night and got my dog pretty riled up. The actually worried me simply because it was several and they were fighting among themselves but not actually coming into my camp. Maybe they were shy or maybe they wouldn't cross were my dog had marked as well as hearing him bark and growl, i really don't know.

I do know if you run from them they will chase and try to bring you down, they will go right into prey mode. At least a pack would especially if they had been stalking you.
Posted by: scottyb

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 07:42 AM

Originally Posted By billstephenson
Wow, that is odd. I've had two close encounters with coyotes in the past couple weeks. I was sitting alone by our fire ring in the forest behind out house after my wife, kids, and some friends had left after a cookout and a pack came by, probably after smelling ribs and hotdogs. I didn't see them because it was pitch black dark out, but they were only about 100 ft away when they all started yipping. I turned my headlamp on and pointed their direction and they lit out in an instant. I barely heard a rustle when they did.

The other was last friday when one by himself came into our front yard to see if he could snatch one of our chickens. Our dogs saw him and chased him off.

It's legal to kill coyotes here. Not many people hunt them for sport, but some do. Right now there are far too many living nearby us and it has occured to me that I might have to shoot a few before too long. I thought I might try to pop them with a paintball gun first to see if they'd relocate on their own.

This is the first time I've heard of more than one attacking a person though. Weird.


We have a problem with coyotes around here as well. There were none the first 7 or 8 years after we built our home, but jackrabbits were plentiful. The coyotes came in and wiped out the jackrabbits. I was walking on one of my jobs last year and came upon some scat. The scat contained a tiny collar in it, probably from a cat.

This spring I witnessed how they do it. I have an invisible fence for my dogs that encloses them on two acres around the house. There were two coyotes in the pasture just outside the barrier. One of them would come in close and lure my big airedale to chase after him. The airedale (Rooster) would charge after him, but peel off at the barrier. The coyote circled around and came right back and did it again while the other one was waiting crouched in the fringe. Of course this all stopped as soon as I had time to get out my Henry .17 HMR. (Now it sits by the back door)

I tried for a couple years to fire warning shots, then dusting them with bird shot, then #4 shot, but they kept coming back. Now it's full scale war and take no prisoners. There are 4 fewer that there were last spring.
Posted by: finallyME

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 12:29 PM

And here I have to convince them to come close for a good shot.
Posted by: ringtail

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 01:12 PM

WOW, my heart goes out to the victims family. More rare than a lightening strike or shark attack.

It is hard to generalize about coyotes because they are so adaptable. The coyotes I have seen in the backcountry are very shy, but the ones around the City seem to be comfortable with humans. I really like the ones in our neighborhood because they control the goose population. However, they also have reduced the fox population. A person spoke at our City's Animal Control Commission and demanded that something be down to keep the coyotes from killing the foxes. crazy crazy

A couple of years ago I saw one at about 12,000 feet in January. What are they are eating at that altitude in January?

A terrible tragedy. I hope no one over reacts.
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 01:13 PM

Actually i am not a "twitt" but I happen to think that having a knife would be better than trying to punch one in the nose. Any weapon, if you got into that situation, wold be better than nothing, which I think is what "she" had....Nothing and now she is dead DUH !!!!!!!sabre11004 lame
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 01:17 PM

Quote:

I tried for a couple years to fire warning shots...


Thanks for the info. It pretty much blows my paintball plan out, but I didn't have much faith in it in the first place to be honest. I might as well skip past deterrence.

My wife is ready to go shoot them herself as it stands. They've taken most all her outdoor cats and she's mad as can be.

I'm not a hunter, I haven't even shot a rifle in over 30 years, so I figured my next step would be to get a 410 shotgun and pepper their tail ends, but if that's not a real deterrent either than I'll just borrow a buddies rifle and get to business.

The pack that lives near us is getting bolder, that's for sure. And our dogs are no match for them. They're all either old, fat, crippled up, or stupid and they stay up late to howl like drunken sailors with the coyotes every darn night. I'm not convinced that they weren't chasing that one the other day in hopes to get some tail.

I supposed my best bet is probably to get up early and set out some bait where I can get a clean shot with a clear line of sight, then sit and wait.

One thing is for sure, I know they're going to keep picking off our critters if I don't do something.


Posted by: Trailrunner

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 03:04 PM

First and foremost my heart goes out to the victim and her family.

I'm a city boy but I live on the edge of the city....big coyote country. I hear them at night all the time and I run or cycle through their habitat on the way to work. Usually at night. Just about every one I've ever seen turns tail and runs as soon as they notice me. The critters in this attack don't sound like "normal" coyotes.

I'm much more worried about the mountain lions. eek
Posted by: ringtail

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 03:15 PM

I suspect chumming to incite that type of behavior from coyote. The Department of Transportation uses an area in one of the local open spaces to dispose of road kill. I have seen aggressive coyotes in that area.
Posted by: Good Day!

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/29/09 10:55 PM

I lived on a government sheep research station in Idaho for a year as a child. They were researching, among other things, coyote predation on sheep flocks. They used great Pyrenees dogs to protect the sheep from yote attacks. For those with livestock and pets threatened by yotes you might look into these types of dogs.
At the station nobody seemed worried about people being attacked by the yotes. Maybe times are a changing.
They did trap live ones for research purposes. I had an uncle visit and he looked at the nice little coyotes in the dog pens. One came up to him so he stuck his finger in to let the "nice little yote" sniff it... yup, uncle got stitches.
Times might be the same...

Wild dogs, pet dogs, coyotes, cougars, even smaller animals will attack people at some points in time but lets not go crazy.
My condolences to the family. That pack of yotes should be hunted.
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 12:17 AM

I've spent a lot of time with coyotes but never was afraid of them. I do keep my dog away from them and I wouldn't hesitate to kill a coyote to protect my dog, but I like coyotes. Generally I do not have my dog camping with me, so I don't worry but rather I enjoy hearing them howl.
Jim
Posted by: Haiwee

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 09:44 AM

When I was a child, our family was camping on the beach near San Felipe in Baja, and my Dad and I woke to find a coyote sniffing my sister's face (she was maybe eight at the time). My Dad chased it off, but he was visibly shaken by the episode. Other than that, I've never had a close encounter with one. I had never heard or read of a coyote attack on humans before.
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 12:40 PM

Quote:
I like coyotes


Me too, Jim. We've always had packs running the ridge and hollows where I live, and I have never heard of one being aggressive towards people. But this past year all my neighbors have lost pets to them.

It may have a lot to do with the Lake level being so high. The Army Corps has flooded the lake for most of the past two years and this has decreased the nearby surrounding habitat by around 1000 acres where squirrel, rabbits, quail, rats, and other small critters used to be plentiful.

At the same time we've had the Conservation Dept, the Forest Service, and the Corp close well over a hundred miles of off-road access trails to vehicles in our County and those that border it. This has certainly led to an increase in their population and forced many coyotes to head out into nearby areas. Everyone within a few miles of me lives on at least 5 or more acres surrounded by public land so it's easy for them to hide out on the fringes of our living space.



Posted by: GrumpyGord

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 02:16 PM

Another factor is that we have killed off all of the wolves which are natural predators of coyotes. Any time people fool around with the natural balance, things get screwed up. No predators = over population. Removing habitat = change of behavior or extinction.
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 05:42 PM

That's true and it's sad. But, after reading these accounts from early settlers in this area I'm not so sure I'd want packs of wolves running around here anymore.

Silas Turnbo Manuscripts

Most of these stories relate things that took place very near to where I live, some within walking distance.

Posted by: sabre11004

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 06:07 PM

I have been hiking since the early seventies and have seen many many animals. The one animal that I have never seen in the wild is a coyote. I have pretty close encounters with bears, cats, and a fox or two but never a coyote. I had an encounter with a cat in the early eighties that we thought that we were going to have a problem with but in the end, it worked out ok, but it was as close as I would want to come to a conflict with a wild animal...sabre11004... eek eek eek eek
Posted by: wandering_daisy

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 11:20 PM

I am afraid of domestic dogs! I have been attacked by domestic dogs while riding my bicycle. I am apprehensive when hiking alone and hear a pack of coyotes too. All it takes is one bite in the wrong place and any dog can kill you.

In the late 1970's my ex-husband and I hunted coyotes for the money. A good quality hide would bring $70 - $50 for the hide and $20 bounty. Coyotes were really killing lots of domestic sheep so at that time there was a good bounty on each. Ex had a job winter feeding elk on the big bend of the Green River. We would put bait out the bedroom window and pop off the coyotes early in the morning. Coyote money is what fed us that winter. (we also had two kids - age 1 and 3).

All wild animals are dangerous. I watched elk gore each other to death. The moose were very aggressive and would chase us while we were riding on the snowmobile.

I honestly think that a major problem is that no hunting is allowed in national parks. Animals shy away from people when they associate us with danger. Hunting establishes this connection. As for anti-hunters -- all I can say is that if you cannot look something in the eye and shoot it, gut it, clean it and cook it, you have no business eating meat at all. Honestly, when habitat is reduced by human population, hunting is really needed. I saw so many antelope starve to death in the winter. Hunting to keep the population down makes a lot of sense.
Posted by: phat

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/30/09 11:53 PM

Originally Posted By wandering_daisy

In the late 1970's my ex-husband and I hunted coyotes for the money. A good quality hide would bring $70 - $50 for the hide and $20 bounty. Coyotes were really killing lots of domestic sheep so at that time there was a good bounty on each. Ex had a job winter feeding elk on the big bend of the Green River. We would put bait out the bedroom window and pop off the coyotes early in the morning. Coyote money is what fed us that winter. (we also had two kids - age 1 and 3).


I bought a new rifle with coyote pelts in high school (early 80's) when I could get $135 a pelt for them in january and february..

Quote:

I honestly think that a major problem is that no hunting is allowed in national parks. Animals shy away from people when they associate us with danger. Hunting establishes this connection.


I agree completely there, especially with the big cats and wolves/coyotes.

Quote:

As for anti-hunters -- all I can say is that if you cannot look something in the eye




Quote:
and shoot it




Quote:
gut it




Quote:
clean it




Quote:
and cook it




Quote:
you have no business eating meat at all


No problems here.. backstrap's mighty tasty out of them little ones. wink


Posted by: oldranger

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/31/09 12:51 AM

I have seen coyotes, as well as bobcats, within our city limits several times. Routinely hear them howling in the surrounding hills.
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/31/09 11:20 AM

That's funny that you say that because I do not eat meat...at all.. I think nature has a way of taking care of it's environment and it's animals. When you think about it when we are in the back country we are in "their" territory. We have basically ran them out of their own habitat so they have every right to be there and to do what they see fit to have an established territory, which again, we are slowly stealing from them. Hell, no wonder they are pissed off and get at us every chance they get. You can't really blame them. I do carry a weapon to protect myself and it would always be a last resort to shoot one of them. I also always carry a couple of packs of firecrackers in my pocket when I am on the trail and that has always worked to scare off any animal, and I have had to use them on several occasions...sabre11004... thanks
Posted by: bigb

Re: Coyote Attack - 10/31/09 03:36 PM

I didn't realize the folk singer had ran the coyotes out of there habitat, that sheds new light on the situation, i hope that teaches those folk singers a lesson about land development, and for the rest of you humans remember you are not a part of nature but everything else is and your fair game for any disgruntled relocated animal.

I mean really!

I feel terrible for the family who has to imagine there loved one being eaten alive.
Posted by: dla

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/03/09 03:47 PM

I don't believe that story for a minute.

Wolves yes, Coyotes no. I smell a wolf-lover cover up. And who is the retard giving advice about carrying a knife? Are Cannucks really that dumb?

Posted by: sabre11004

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/03/09 05:43 PM

I have your retard...well you know where I'm sure. You put yourself under any wild animal. Would you "rather" be without??? I think you are the retard....sabre11004 lame
Posted by: Howie

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/03/09 07:03 PM

Just a few days ago another coyote attack was reported. Apparently a couple of coyotes killed a pony on a ranch. I don t think they would lie about it.

Howie
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/06/09 01:54 PM

Quote:
You put yourself under any wild animal. Would you "rather" be without???


I agree with that when it comes to wilderness areas. We have lots of public property here where coyotes can roam, and they do. But when they come on private property to hunt game I have to draw the line.

Tonight I might sleep in the forest out behind our house. The weather is perfect. If I do, I'll bring my camera and see if I can get some sound on video of the coyotes yipping and howling. They were sure raising a racket last night!

Bill
Posted by: 4dayer

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/06/09 05:19 PM

Wow! What an unfortunate event. Well, I have visited the back country all my life and have never had a problem with coyotes. I usually bring my dog and of course a side arm! Honestly, the weapons aren't for the wildlife but for some of the characters that I have encountered! Sad but true!

Chad
http://www.4dayeroutdoorgear.com
use promo code lovethe4dayer for an additional 10% discount!
Posted by: Zalman

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/13/09 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By sabre11004
I have pretty close encounters with bears, cats, and a fox or two...


And apparently that's not all you have to worry about. This sensationalized list of the Top Ten Most Badass Animals Native to the USA I found in my news this morning should keep a few people out of the woods.

Not sure why it's specific to the USA, but it makes me consider moving to Canada.
Posted by: Pika

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/13/09 02:15 PM

That is truly a poor piece of "journalism"; I've seen better on Fox or in "checkout stand" tabloids.

They should have listed humans at the top of the list; for every fatality from a wild animal there are likely over a thousand caused by humans.

In 1998, there were 14.24 firearm-related deaths per 100,000 people in the U.S. each year. http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/27/2/214.pdf For a U.S. population of about 300 million this works out to over 40,000 per year. I don't think that all of the deaths by wild animals in a year in the U.S. would even reach 1000. And, theses figures don't include the fatalities caused by drunk and/or negligent driving and other fatalities not caused by the victim's negligence.

Folks tend to have really distorted perceptions of risk.
Posted by: Howie

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/13/09 10:34 PM

It seems to be a year for aggressive coyotes. This morning a man phoned into the radio station to warn and tell of a coyote encounter he had while walking his dog. This was within city limits. He said that he always knew coyotes as being timid animals but this particular one acted very aggressively towards him and his dog.

Howie
Posted by: Rick

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 05:54 AM

This is but one of several articles that have been written over the course of several months here in South Western Ontrio. There was a simmilar article that appeared in the Corner Brook Nfld paper when I was there in September.

Coyote Fears Grow in GTA
Posted by: oldranger

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 09:21 AM

That article is absolute crap.
Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 12:52 PM

Hi Ranger

Yes it sad the way the media plays this junk, but I suppose it helps their own surrvival mad.

One of the cool things about skiing in Yosemite is having coyotes running along with me 25 feet away. :)They are looking for a hand out. You look into there eyes and you sense their wildness and fear of me, overcome by their seeking a handout in the winter. I have camped in the midst of coyotes and NEVER had any fear or any reason too.

For that matter, I've camped right in the home territory of a huge blackbear and seen him skirting my camp. I do mark my territory and bang on a pot at sunset and scream "hey bear I'm camping over here", lest he accidentally bump into me. confused

Jim
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By oldranger
That article is absolute crap.


Hmm... Seemed balanced to me.

Quote:
Coyote fears grow in GTA
Reported sightings jumped to 68 this year from 15 after incident in Beach, fatal Cape Breton mauling


Quote:
Carl Bandow, supervisor with Toronto Animal Services, said the jump in coyote sightings could be tied to reports of aggressive animals in the news.

"I would suspect with the Beach-area coyote that people were more aware," Bandow said.



Quote:
One man who has used the park and surrounding area for 70 years said he has never seen a coyote act aggressively and there is nothing to fear.

If (walkers) are in an area less travelled, the coyote will stop and look at you and try to figure out who you are," said Bill Lewis, 82, program director at Rouge Valley Conservation Centre.


All those statements sound reasonable and accurate to me.

In my experience here in the Ozarks when city folks move here some do get freaked out when they see wildlife come into their backyards. Locals don't. That's why there are still coyotes, bobcats, black bears, and who knows what else, running around here. We don't want to exterminate them, but we know we must control their populations.

Coyotes are a problem here right now. Most likely the coyotes had an above normal reproduction cycle the past couple years here. I know for certain there are more than any of the past dozen years running around here right now (I hear them every night) and it's a fact that more domestic pets and small livestock have been taken by them here, this year, than in recent years past.


This year my neighbors close by and I have lost at least a half dozen small dogs, dozens of domestic cats, and lots of chickens and other fowl. Coyotes and bobcats are what got them. We have to do something because things will get ugly if we don't.

For example, the outdoor cats are not just "Pets". They control snakes, rats, mice, and other small critters. Chickens control ticks, chiggers, mice, snakes, and other pests. Many of the snakes are venomous, the ticks can cause lyme disease. Other pests eat produce.

So, here are our choices:
  • Let coyotes feed on our pets and livestock.

  • Move to the City.

  • Thin out the neighbors.

  • Thin out the coyotes.

They're all crappy choices, but the latter is the only one that's going to happen.

Now, if one lives in a metro area where coyotes are not a problem for them, than they don't have to decide which of these options to choose. And they can help alleviate the problems rural folks have with coyotes by staying in the city. But I don't think it gives one a high horse to sit on.

Anyone who eats eggs, chicken, beef, pork, or veggies and fruit of most every kind, and is not producing it all themselves, is better off letting rural folks figure out how to deal with these issues.

If they think they know a better way, show us. We're all waiting for them.

Here, where I live, there are families that have lived here for many generations. They know what it was like when wild beasts were on the top of the food chain here. It sucked.

Here's an account from when things were still wild here that took place less than a mile from where I live: SAD ACCOUNT OF A LOST CHILD

And another.

And a whole bunch more..

The real truth is, most people have forgot what "Wilderness" really meant here just 200 years ago. Read the "Journals of Lewis and Clark". Read what they said about Grizzly Bears here in Missouri.

Personally, I'm thankful for how it is now.
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 08:11 PM

It was opening day for deer season here and my son-in-law, Travis, and his buddy, John, were hunting on our land down back this and they saw three coyotes and no deer. The hollow behind our house is known for big bucks and is considered a prime hunting spot. They did hear a buck snort at them, but never got a good view of him.

John said one of the coyotes came trotting up within 30ft of him before it saw him and then ran off around him. They didn't shoot any of them.

I'm not kidding, the coyotes are as thick as thieves here this year.

Posted by: oldranger

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 09:19 PM

I think we must be referring to different articles, because I could not find the statements you referenced in "Top Ten Badass Animals Native to the USA," the piece I am criticizing. The reason it is crap is that this article continues to promote the sensationalistic fixation on death by predators, neglecting to mention the very real hazards that are more worthy of attention. I don't believe it even has the animal hazards straight. The biggest animal killer in the USA, year in and year out, is the honeybee - anaphalactic shock.

I don't have the stats handy, but I believe dogs, wild and domestic, kill far more people than coyotes in a typical year.

I have lived in Arizona or SoCal for the last fifty years, and I have seen a lot of coyotes. One of the more recent was slightly more than a quarter mile from my house in a neighbors yard. I can hear them every morning as I pick up the paper. I have also seen bobcats in town and black bears are reported in nearby communities. We bring our critters in at night and stay alert.

One of the nice things that coyotes do is keep the rodent population in balance. Rodents are another killer, carrying various diseases. Right now there is a fair amount of concern about rodent borne hanta virus, which has killed far more people than coyotes ever have. When hanta virus was diagnosed, I found I had been working for several years at the Arizona locality (del Muerto canyon) where the syndrome was first identified. I have also worked in the midst of a bubonic plague outbreak, another charming illness for which rodents are an indirect vector. I say bring on the coyotes!

About fifteen people a year die from rattlesnake bites, a pretty paltry total. It is easy to learn the proper techniques that will increase your odds considerably. Oh yes, rattlesnakes chow down on rodents too.

It is easy to take an extreme position on what is clearly a very emotional topic, judging from the internet chatter. I am sure there are situations where problem bears, coyotes, etc. really should be put down, after careful analysis.

The thing is that when you are assessing hazards attendant upon outdoor activities, know what the real hazards are. Falls are a prominent cause of fatalities, as are extreme weather conditions, both hot and cold. Drowning is a big killer. Be alert to these problems, and you have increased your chances of surviving enormously. Keep the animal problems in their proper perspective.

Wild critters are a problem, and anyone competent in the woods learns the right techniques for dealing with whatever is in the vicinity. The article dissed the often given advice to stand your ground and not run when faced with a black bear. The statistics, as well as my personal experience, indicates that this does work. Incidentally, if you want to avoid bear trouble, one of the most important things to do is keep a clean camp, a fundamental strategy of course not even mentioned to the article.

I am sure I preaching to the choir in discussing most of these issues, but I really hate to see such misleading tripe fed to people who might not know any better.

Upon further review, this article is still crap.
Posted by: Howie

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/14/09 11:47 PM

I feel blessed to live in a land where we have such an array of wild, and even possibly dangerous animals. I grew up in England where we had no coyotes, wolves, bears or cougars, (other than in zoos). We did have foxes of course. The English are known for their fox hunting. Canada and United States are both great and beautiful countries, and part of that beauty is our wild animals. Here in Kamloops we have our fair share. I love it.

Howie
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/15/09 11:12 AM

Quote:
Upon further review, this article is still crap.


Yeah, we were definitely commenting on a different article. I looked at the link and came to the same conclusion as you without clicking on it. After reading your review I'm sure I don't need to.
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/15/09 11:22 AM

Quote:
I feel blessed to live in a land where we have such an array of wild, and even possibly dangerous animals.


Me too. Here in the Ozarks we've done pretty good at letting populations grow back to sustainable levels. Elk are one of our best recent examples. I think there are over 600 roaming free in the Ozark NF and Buffalo River NP. Eagles are another. It's now common to see them along our rivers and lakes. Wild turkey populations are as high ad they've ever been and black bears have made a great comeback and very few problems are reported with them. They all have plenty of room to roam at their current numbers and almost never get close to populated areas.

We do have issues with hunters poaching out of season here but it's much less common than it used to be and not so bad that specie populations are endangered at this time.

Posted by: Zalman

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/15/09 11:36 AM

Originally Posted By billstephenson
I looked at the link and came to the same conclusion as you without clicking on it. After reading your review I'm sure I don't need to.


Yes, the article is pure silliness, but I have to give them a drop of credit for noting that the most dangerous "animal" (Brown Recluse Spider) is more typically found in your backyard shed than in the wilderness. smile
Posted by: oldranger

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/15/09 12:34 PM

I just wanted to chime in on your comments about grizzlies at the time of settlement.

In California, until the introduction of firearms, the local tribes and grizzly bears were in a state of mutual predation. The early mountain men rather quickly shot them out. The last one in Cal was shot in the 1920s and now they are found only on the state flag. Grizzlies are truly a different kind of hazard from most other critters.

I was surprised, however, to check the Yellowstone website re grizzlies. They list only five visitor fatalities since 1916, which is rather surprising.
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/16/09 01:09 PM

Quote:
the most dangerous "animal" (Brown Recluse Spider)


I didn't know that. But I can tell you we have them here too, a lot of them.

A couple years ago my home office, which is in a "Pole Barn" outside, was filled with them. My eyesight isn't so keen and I didn't really bother to ID the little buggers for several years and they kept multiplying. Finally, after one literally attacked my shoe as I was trying to shoo it out the door, I doubled up my reading glasses and took a good look. Sure enough, there was the distinctive "Fiddle" on it's back.

After that I started killing them. There were a lot of them too. I've probably been bitten once or twice and didn't know it because it was not too severe, but I know several people that have been bit, including two of my daughters (not here at home), and a bite can be very severe. I've never heard of anyone dying from a bite though I suppose it could happen.

I should add that I don't recall ever seeing one in the forest, or anywhere outside here. And I don't really recall seeing one build a web. They might, but usually I see them moving about.

I also have big "Wolf" spiders in my office which I let stay, and the occasional Tarantula which I relocate, but don't see many Brown Recluses anymore and I always kill them when I do. They are the most aggressive spider I've ever encountered.

Tarantulas will rare-up at you if you pester them, otherwise they'll leave you alone and they only come inside during Autumn when they're looking for a place to winter. Brown Recluses will charge you and jump on you when you pester them.

When I lived in So Cal I encountered so many Black Widows that I could smell them even them before seeing them, and could tell by just touching a web if it belonged to one. But they were never as aggressive as the Brown Recluses here. And we have Black Widows here too, but not near as many as in So Cal.

Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/16/09 01:36 PM

Quote:

I was surprised, however, to check the Yellowstone website re grizzlies. They list only five visitor fatalities since 1916, which is rather surprising.


I suppose the grizzles were fairly well decimated by then. Any that remained must have learned to stay far away from people.

As I recall, after meeting their first adult grizzly bear, Lewis and Clark said they seemed hell bent on attacking humans whenever they got a chance, and knew personally they would chase you a very long way to smack you around. Before that they had dismissed reports of their ferocity as highly exaggerated.

A lot has certainly changed since then.
Posted by: shawn

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/18/09 01:08 AM

Quote:
Should a hiker unintentionally surprise a coyote or other animal, Gadbois has simple, potentially life-saving advice: Never act like prey."The worst thing you can do is start running away," he said. "Wave your arms, shout, just show that you mean business basically and most animals will think twice."

Just wanted to share the above quote since I thought that would be a piece of useful advice for anyone who runs into a chance encounter with any wild predatory animal. while it does not make sense to outrun an animal, it seems correct to not look like its prey.

In any case, backpackers should also take not to wear any perfumes or carry meat items in their backpack just in case they draw unwanted attention to themselves.


shawn
GuideGecko Travel Bookstore
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Coyote Attack - 11/18/09 01:33 PM

Quote:
backpackers should also take not to wear any perfumes or carry meat items in their backpack


I've never had any animal get into my pack and I've never heard of that happening (in recent years) here in the Ozarks. I did know a guy that was two days into a hike at Yosemite and got lazy and didn't hang his food very high in a tree. He woke up and got to watch a pretty big bear devour all of his food. After awhile he got up the nerve to yell and clang a cup and pan together. The bear was unimpressed.

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This is OT, and a serious digression, but I'm waiting for some code to compile so I'll relate this story:

There was one time that I went camping at "Coffee Camp" near Porterville, Ca. On the way there I stopped at a store in Springville and the clerk there told me to be careful of the chipmunks at the campground. She told me they'd been raiding coolers they were left unattended.

When we got there my wife and I had the place to ourselves. We chose our spot, set up some chairs and decided to relax before setting up camp.

About a half hour later a van came into the campground and parked right next to us. We wondered why, since it's a fairly big campground with lots of nice spots.

A man, woman, and three young kids got out and started unloading their gear and glared at us the entire time like we had intruded upon them. I decided to try and break the ice when they unloaded their coolers and set them under a tree. I said, "Hi. Hey the lady at the store in town told me that we'd better keep our food and coolers stowed away because chipmunks were raiding stuff here". The guy just scowled at me and said, "Don't worry about it". My wife just grinned at me and replied to them, "Okay, no problem".

By the time they were done unloading they had a picnic table filled with bags of food and three coolers sitting on the ground. As soon as they were done setting up a huge tent the Dad announced they were taking a hike and away they went. They crossed a stream and were out of sight in just a few minutes. Seconds later the first chipmunk showed up to case their campsite.

He went for the biggest cooler first and to me and my wife's amazement, like a tiny Hercules, he opened that cooler lid and dove inside. Seconds later he came back out with a pack of hot dog buns. Then he jumped up on their picnic table, ripped them open, chattered real loud for just a second, and then started chowing down.

Within less than another minute there were dozens of chipmunks tearing into everything they had. Since my wife and were instructed not to worry about it, and gave our word we wouldn't, we decided to just enjoy the ensuing mayhem.

Chipmunks were carrying off everything, entire boxes of cookies and crackers, packages of cheese, donuts, they took it all and left wrappers and packages torn up all over the place.

About two hours before sunset the family of grumps came back. First they looked at my wife and I sitting under a tree, and scowled at us again. Then they looked at their campsite about 30 feet away from us. The chipmunks were now just going freaking crazy ripping and tearing through everything they had. There were flying in and out of every cooler and bag they had outside tossing wrappers in the air and whopping it up like it was Spring Break in Cozumel.

The two grumps just stood there with their jaws dropped. Their kids started laughing and squealing and were tickled pink to see so many chipmunks having such a great time and they took off running to join in. A few chipmunks screamed when they saw the kids coming and in less than a second the whole gang of thieves scattered away like six year olds called in for a bath.

While the grumps were assessing the damage my wife and I got up and walked to our car. I looked at the guy and said, "Well, I think we'll head up to the Upper Coffee Camp. Looks like that lady at the store was right. The chipmunks will get in your stuff here".

I swear he was forming his lips to ask me why I didn't stop those chipmunks, and I was sure hoping he would, but he never did get it out. He just looked at me and kept his mouth shut, and then went back to picking up his mess.