Disaster Preparednes & backpackers

Posted by: 300winmag

Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/14/09 02:33 AM

Because we all have backing equipment, and many, like me, have enough to equip several people, do you ever think about its use in a disaster scenario?

I'm talking earthquake, blizzard, flood, extended power failure (esp. in a cold winter).

Do you have:
> a radio W/ solar & hand charge capabilities?
> FAMILY 1st aid kit?
> adequate water for one week? (in hot water tank, commodes and large containers)
> a GRAB BAG to grab and go incase of fire, dirty bomb or contaigon?
> enough tents, mattress and bags for your houshold?
> adequate home/car defense weapons, including firearms?
> neighborhood coop survival/security arrangements? i.e. can you help them and vice versa?

Eric
Posted by: finallyME

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/14/09 10:04 AM

Yes, I think about it. I also try to have a bag for everyone, in case we have to leave for whatever reason.
Posted by: sabre11004

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/17/09 12:03 PM

I think about it every day because it is a reality. Yeah, I have a bag for every one too...It's the only way to go. It's keeps each person in his own little ownership roll and keeps each other from interfering with one another. That's again, another thing that makes hikers unique. They are always ready for a disaster no matter when it comes. We could go to this plot of land that I have and probably live "ok" for a month or so..I can assure that this is more prepared than your average guy or girl walking the street. Kind of gives us an advantage doesn't it??? sabre11004.... goodjob
Posted by: Echterling

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/17/09 04:16 PM

I got snowed in for a week. The whole area was without power, etc. I'm not sure how funny the police (riding in a fire truck as it was the only vehicle heavy enough to get around in the snow) found it that I was on snowshoes doing just fine wandering around town.
Posted by: thecook

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/17/09 09:11 PM

That's normal around here. After a big snow, you will often find ski tracks running down the middle of the street, and snoeshoe tracks on the boulevards. When I lived in South Dakota, the hospital lined up snowmobilers to take any pregant women to the hospital if they entered labor before the roads were cleared.
Posted by: sarbar

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/18/09 09:34 AM

Yes and more than the list!
Posted by: Dryer

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/18/09 10:48 AM

Yes, 24/7. I do volunteer communications for my city/fire department and the county health department. Not only do I consider my camping gear 'disaster preparedness' equipment, I've used it that way, a few times! When Dallas received thousands of hurricane evacuees from the last two major storms, many of us ended up sleeping on site at the shelters, and quite comfy I might add. I have stuff for the whole family...tents, bags, etc. With your gear, you have the ability to live anywhere, and have fun doing it.

I have a "grab tub"....a big Rubbermaid tub with stuff, my pack/sleeping/warmth, and an SKB all weather case full of amateur radio gear, batteries, tools. It's all on wheels and can be pulled by one hand. It isn't a time to be 'ultralite', either.
Posted by: coyotemaster

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/19/09 06:10 PM

I used to maintain a preparedness/bugout supply & thought system pretty well, but now I'm the least prepared I've been for 30yrs or more.

In my current environment, Phoenix metro, with kids sometimes with the ex. & sometimes with me or scattered doing whatever, it would be worse to try & bugout, in almost any conceivable disaster, than to just hunker down in place. I have some water storage & a little food. I located myself within walking distance of the kids school and use the 1/2 tank mark as my 'empty' in my vehicle, so I can always drive at least 150mi if I have to, but...

I can't see being able to drive away from anything. We'd just be bogged down in a freeway parking lot with desperate, unorganized, unprepared people without the moral benchmarks they used to have and a paralyzed fire/police/emergency response system.
I've been up I-17 on holiday weekends & it's a nightmare.
I've been up hwy 87 on Labor day weekend & it's a nightmare.
I've been down I-10 on holidays & it's a nightmare.

Yesterday I took the kids to their football teams away game. What a nightmare of rush hour traffic!
A disaster would be far worse & the roads would almost certainly be impassible.

I hate to imagine a summertime (100'F+) bugout surrounded by people with guns that ran out of water yesterday.
Bringing down the power grid would be enough set the stage. No power = no water pressure out here.

Staying would be bad, but leaving worse.
And Payson, AZ can't take a million needy people anyway.
Posted by: Pika

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/19/09 07:12 PM

I live in rural Arizona south of Tucson. To me, "bugging out" is unrealistic. I am in my 70's, I have a wife who needs medical oxygen, medications, and help with some of her activities. And, I am pretty well set where I am.

We are on a well that will quit as soon as the power goes. But, I have the capability of harvesting rain water and have 1500 gallons of storage. I have some food stored, about a pretty boring months worth. And, I have a well insulated house that remains relatively comfortable without air conditioning even during the hot months; I have a fireplace and wood stove for cooking and for the cold (20°F)winter nights. We have a modest solar lighting capacity as well as kerosene lamps and kerosene. I have a small motorbike that will go 120 miles on a gallon of gas so I can get around as long as I have gas in the cars to siphon and I have 2-cycle oil to mix fuel. So, for something lasting a month or so, I figure that I am OK to get by.

Tucson and most of southeast Arizona depends largely on coal and oil fired generating plants for electricity for lights, air conditioning and pumping water. If something happens to the supply of coal and oil then a lot of things come to a quick stop: water for one thing. And, if the trucks stop bringing food to the cities, rioting is probably only a few days away. Few city dwellers give even a passing thought to just how dependent they are on a fairly fragile transportation system (until it fails). Right now, if oil and coal stop coming to Tucson, so does the food and water shortly thereafter.

There are over a million people in southeast Arizona; not many are even remotely prepared for a disaster. So, the thing I think about most, in the wake of some sort of natural disaster, especially one involving electricity and trucking, is greater Tucson emptying in my direction down the Santa Cruz valley with lots of guns and little, or no, water and food. I live a ways off the main travel corridors so would be spared the initial panicky surge but when they start spreading out I would be worried about people moving in my direction hoping to share what little I have. I don't know what I would do if that were to happen.
Posted by: Tango61

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/20/09 10:21 PM


I used to live in "tornado alley" and we had to be prepared at a moments notice to head for the cellar. During tornado season (Apr-Aug) we ALWAYS kept clothes/shoes at the end of the bed in order to get dressed right away and head for the cellar. We also all had our flashlights.
I don't think we had food/water in the cellar but probably should have.

Now, I live in "hurricane alley" and we learned last year during hurricane Ike what it really means to "be prepared". We went without electricity for 7 days. We bought two 5000W generators and filled up 7 x 5 gallon jugs of gas for them. We also filled up the vehicles in case we had to leave. We also had a footlocker full of food staples.
We had food and 15 gallons of drinking water in the house. We filled up a 55 gallon trash can with water for washing. Used the outdoor grill for cooking and heating/boiling water.

We live in a rural community and we check on our neighbors to make sure everyone is okay. Last spring, a survey was sent out by the volunteer fire dept and allowed people to provide information that could be used by the VFD in the event of an emergency to help find and treat (if necessary) people in the community.
Posted by: Wolfeye

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/23/09 07:24 PM

Yep, have actually used my hiking gear in disaster scenarios too. We had tsunami alerts every other year or so when I lived in SE Alaska, and we had to be able to pick up our lives and scootch to higher ground at any time. We ended up sitting one alert out on a mountaintop because that's where we were when the sirens went off. What I learned:

- If every family has a car, traffic will be very, very bad. Even in small towns.
- Go ahead and carry some gear in your car and on your person all the time. It's not as good as having the resources you stash at home, but you never know when & where something might happen.
- Don't evacuate unless that's what the situation dictates; I've seen people drive across state just because their power went out for a few days. That doesn't exactly help your friends & family, or your property for that matter.
- Keep the whole "preparedness" thing running in the background, but don't dwell on it all the time. Let it be a comfort, not a worry.

It's kind of fun. Makes the whole hiking thing seem like an extra edge over the masses in terms of preparedness.
Posted by: phat

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/24/09 01:02 AM


Sheesh, it's like none of you know jack. You're all worried about being gearheads about it and forgot the most important thing:

1) A good network of reliable, honest, local friends with good skills and a willingness to help one another. Preferably within walking distance. Know your neighbors.

Yeah, I've got the gear, I think about it. Been through a few things close to it. Waiting for the time we get our power knocked out mid winter for a protracted period.


Posted by: Tango61

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/24/09 08:50 PM

Quote:
We live in a rural community and we check on our neighbors to make sure everyone is okay.


Really???? All within walking distance.....
Posted by: Dryer

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/25/09 08:03 AM

Quote:
1) A good network of reliable, honest, local friends with good skills and a willingness to help one another. Preferably within walking distance. Know your neighbors.


Yeah, they all know where I live.
I'll add to your #1...
2) know your friends with the church mandated* 1 year food supply, where they live, and the location of their stash.
3) make sure you are the one with the guns.

grin


*my ex-business partner was one. I kidded him about this all the time...."I don't need to buy supplies when I have yours."
Posted by: phat

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/25/09 09:21 AM

Originally Posted By Dryer

2) know your friends with the church mandated* 1 year food supply, where they live, and the location of their stash.
3) make sure you are the one with the guns.

grin


*my ex-business partner was one. I kidded him about this all the time...."I don't need to buy supplies when I have yours."


Well, I do have the guns - problem is most of the mormon types I know also have them wink

Posted by: finallyME

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/25/09 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By phat
Originally Posted By Dryer

2) know your friends with the church mandated* 1 year food supply, where they live, and the location of their stash.
3) make sure you are the one with the guns.

grin


*my ex-business partner was one. I kidded him about this all the time...."I don't need to buy supplies when I have yours."


Well, I do have the guns - problem is most of the mormon types I know also have them wink



grin grin grin grin
Posted by: NightForce

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/25/09 07:31 PM

And I thought I was the only disaster preparedness worry wart...LOL

Does 2200+ rounds of 40 S&W count against 'ultralight'? :P
Posted by: phat

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/25/09 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By NightForce
And I thought I was the only disaster preparedness worry wart...LOL

Does 2200+ rounds of 40 S&W count against 'ultralight'? :P


Yeah, because my 500 rounds of .308 is lighter than your 2200+ rounds of 40 smith, and I'm more than 100 meters away from you wink wink wink wink

Besides, in all *seriousness* as I've mentioned your best asset is friendly knowledgable neighbors who will have people *helping* each other rather than shooting at each other.

Surviving primative involves lots of manual labour. many hands are better than many triggers.. seriously.

Posted by: Dryer

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/26/09 09:00 AM

Quote:
Besides, in all *seriousness* as I've mentioned your best asset is friendly knowledgable neighbors who will have people *helping* each other rather than shooting at each other.



Nah.....forming up a band of roving pirate marauders would be much more fun, plus they'd probably make movies about us. grin

Seriously, all my neighbors are in their 80's and call me before they'll dial 911....they don't want to "be involved".
So, I dial 911.
Posted by: NightForce

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/27/09 09:09 AM

True phat, so true...being a helpful neighbor is a much better option.

My neighbors, at least some of them, would be helpful but I don't know if any of them even have the means or knowledge to survive an extended outage or disaster. Comforting to know that should something like that happen to me that it would almost be like a camping trip that I didn't have to pack for. laugh
Posted by: dolomiti

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/27/09 10:11 PM

I have thought about it a lot. Enough to do podcast on the subject. grin
Posted by: GrumpyGord

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/28/09 12:14 PM

I think that the biggest advantage that backpackers have is they are not as likely to panic. They realize that it is possible to survive without tap water, three course meals. hot showers etc because they have done it and survived just fine. The reaction of many urban dwellers is that they are in immediate danger whereas the average backpacker realizes that this is survivable at least in the short term because they have survived for a week or two with nothing but the stuff on their back.
Posted by: Dryer

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/28/09 04:46 PM

Quote:
I think that the biggest advantage that backpackers have is they are not as likely to panic.


Well stated. A couple months ago, we had some severe weather come through that shut power down for half a day at my house.
I made camp coffee (the best in the world!) out on the back porch. Wife, a bullet proof trooper, went about her business, and on to work. All like nothing happened. We actually enjoyed the quiet! In contrast, generators, dry ice, and water, disappeared off store shelves that day! All over a 6 hour power outage, and the weather was long gone.
I've never understood what people think they will do with a
2-5kw genset. Those barely run a hairdryer and the fridge becomes just as warm when the gas runs out. Plus, unless the genset is pre-hardwired into the breaker box, running extension cords out into the weather is a good way to get dead yourself. So, yeah, overcoming panic is 99% of the battle.
Posted by: hatidua

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 09/29/09 10:39 PM

.enough sleeping bags for everyone, in any season.
.water filter and a stream close by (in addition to the stored water here)
.plenty of food in the cupboards
.four different backpacking stoves with lots of fuel for each
.more than enough lead to cover any eventuality
Posted by: kyyote

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 01/29/10 06:11 PM

I'd worry about the local homeless, they are in disstress every day and then they'd just say " welcome to my world"...
Posted by: skippy

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/03/10 04:18 AM

I am prepared gear wise but I could stock up a little more on the food side of things. This is something I've been thinking about more and more as things in this country are getting a little shaky in my opinion.

I have some pretty relevant training as a police officer and former swat team member as far as protecting my family and property. My wife is not one to panic so I think we are mentally prepared as well for emergencies.

One thing to mention is that I personally don't think it is a great idea to let your neighbors know how well stocked you are. This might be okay in a short term difficulty but word could get out that you are stocked and you would turn into the neighborhood Walmart.

My $.02....

I think I'll go watch Conspiracy Theory now. smile

-Skippy
Posted by: OregonMouse

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/03/10 04:04 PM

I think that's what was meant by "lead" a couple of posts back....
Posted by: phat

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/03/10 09:10 PM

Originally Posted By skippy

One thing to mention is that I personally don't think it is a great idea to let your neighbors know how well stocked you are. This might be okay in a short term difficulty but word could get out that you are stocked and you would turn into the neighborhood Walmart.


Bollocks. Easier to have good neighbors who you share with and know you are prepared to help out in an emergency situation than have neighbors who don't give a crap about helping you because you are secretive and they "think" you're living high on the hog.

If there are 10 people around you, one of whom is a jerk and will take advantage and steal you blind or strongarm you in that situation, would you rather have 9 people who don't give a crap because you're living in isolation, or 9 people who you're collectively helping out who'll stand with you. And don't give me the peace through superior firepower BS either. A good neighbor is more valuable than an AK anyday - Think with your brain. - Yes you might have 8x or 10x less "supplies" for sharing. Frankly, you'll probably not need it - or by the time you did you'd have been robbed blind anyway.


Posted by: Jimshaw

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/03/10 11:40 PM

I think it depends on where you live. I live in a tiny friendly town on the edge of a forest with lots of game and I believe we will become a tribal society if the mud hits the fan. In my supplies I have ten boxes of salt to trade with the neighbors, but I keep my supply of toilet paper hidden.
Jim
Posted by: skippy

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/03/10 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By phat
Originally Posted By skippy

One thing to mention is that I personally don't think it is a great idea to let your neighbors know how well stocked you are. This might be okay in a short term difficulty but word could get out that you are stocked and you would turn into the neighborhood Walmart.


Bollocks. Easier to have good neighbors who you share with and know you are prepared to help out in an emergency situation than have neighbors who don't give a crap about helping you because you are secretive and they "think" you're living high on the hog.

If there are 10 people around you, one of whom is a jerk and will take advantage and steal you blind or strongarm you in that situation, would you rather have 9 people who don't give a crap because you're living in isolation, or 9 people who you're collectively helping out who'll stand with you. And don't give me the peace through superior firepower BS either. A good neighbor is more valuable than an AK anyday - Think with your brain. - Yes you might have 8x or 10x less "supplies" for sharing. Frankly, you'll probably not need it - or by the time you did you'd have been robbed blind anyway.




You might be right or I might be right, hopefully we'll never have to find out. I'm just guessing that as a police officer I have slightly more insight into human nature than you, when things go bad. People you trust one day might not be trustworthy when they are running low on food. People talk and soon many that you did not intend to tell will know that you have supplies. Some will come to get them. If you want to kill them with kindness go ahead, I prefer to "Speak softly and carry a big stick." (T.R.) No AK for me either.

I would tend to trust only really close friends or family and that's about it.
Posted by: phat

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/04/10 04:01 AM

Originally Posted By skippy

You might be right or I might be right, hopefully we'll never have to find out. I'm just guessing that as a police officer I have slightly more insight into human nature than you, when things go bad. People you trust one day might not be trustworthy when they are running low on food. People talk and soon many that you did not intend to tell will know that you have supplies. Some will come to get them. If you want to kill them with kindness go ahead, I prefer to "Speak softly and carry a big stick." (T.R.) No AK for me either.

I would tend to trust only really close friends or family and that's about it.


I think you're mistaking my kindness as being kind to them because I'm a nice guy, as opposed to my real motives. I think people in this situation are generally self centered jerks who will rob their own mother if it suited them - in fact, I'm counting on it. I'm pretty much figuring I'll get robbed blind if I keep it in isolation. I'm counting on safety in numbers and that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar. If I not only carry the big stick, but give 10 others an interest in me not getting messed with, I have 10 people watching my back and helping out. Otherwise I'm going it alone - and shooting 'em only works on the ones dumb enough to come while I'm awake, or noisy enough to wake me up, or not vicious enough to torch the place and pick through the ashes.

I'd share because *I'm* also a self centred jerk. A manipulative self centred jerk who is used to co-opting difficult people.

Posted by: skippy

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/04/10 08:57 AM

Originally Posted By phat


I'd share because *I'm* also a self centred jerk. A manipulative self centred jerk who is used to co-opting difficult people.



I'll make sure and notify your neighbors about your true intentions...
Posted by: oldranger

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/04/10 10:32 AM

My prediction is that groups, whatever motives might bind them together in cooperation, will last longer than individuals. You can't stay awake indefinitely.

Best to know your neighbors before the event. That doesn't mean you have to give them a guided tour of your stashes.

No question that backpackers are better prepared, especially psychologically, to get through a disaster.
Posted by: skippy

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/04/10 05:51 PM

Originally Posted By oldranger
My prediction is that groups, whatever motives might bind them together in cooperation, will last longer than individuals. You can't stay awake indefinitely.

Best to know your neighbors before the event. That doesn't mean you have to give them a guided tour of your stashes.

No question that backpackers are better prepared, especially psychologically, to get through a disaster.


My plan would involve leaving town (in a long term emergency) and staying with family on a nearby farm and possibly moving further out in the same direction to a family ranch that is more isolated with resources. I am not going to be able to count on any of my neighbors for help. My immediate neighbors are generally good people (except 1) but are not the type to hold down the fort as they are not physically capable.

There is no way I would stay in this town as it is full of too many people living off the government. This equals no personal responsibility and no preparation which = anarchy if the gov't fails.
Posted by: 300winmag

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/06/10 02:42 PM

Gord,

PERSACTLY! We have far more than just the right disaster equipment, we have the experience to handle the situation with calm and logic.

Eric
Posted by: 300winmag

Re: Disaster Preparednes & backpackers - 02/06/10 02:53 PM

Hmmm...

I live in Henderson, Nevada, southern suburb of "Sin City". There are a LOT of bad boys in this town. For that problem I want friends - armed friends.

I have two trusted neighbors who are ex-military but with no firearms of their own. I'd arm them with a shotgun and a .22 semi auto. As well as water treatment gear, of which I have a lot.

I'd keep my big artillery and handguns. We'd form a neighborhood watch if things got to the National Guard/martial law stage. If we were required to vacate our property I'd want them in my "convoy" for mutual aid. Going north out of the 'Vegas valley is the best option, but NOT on I-15, which would be jammed.

Lots of things to consider, but thinking seriously about them beforehand results in a far better experience in an emergency.

BTW, I forgot about this thread agter I posted. It's amazing how many of you responded because you have already considered that your hobby can actually be a lifesaver as well.