Time to goAT packing

Posted by: kevonionia

Time to goAT packing - 08/05/12 02:44 PM

There's been discussion in two topics on "Hiking with Animals" about llamas, and in Jim's in '10 a mention was made about packing with goats.

On our trip to the mountains (near Mt. Sherman, a 14er) last week, we met up with a pair of packing old goats (and I don't mean old men with guns), the first we had ever seen in the 'wild.'


Peanut the packing goat.

My wife and I are both convalescing, so we were CTT (confined to trailer) when we ran into these goats.

Three guys in two trucks pulled in just before a big storm up Four Mile Creek from us, and we saw what we thought were llamas crawling out of the pick-up topper out of the back. Debbie got the binos out and said they looked like goats, big goats.

After the storm, the goats' owner rambled over with them for a visit. He was retired, lived in Monument, CO, and had the goats for more than half a decade.


Owner & goat.

Each one could carry about 40 pounds of gear and food. Grilling him, I was given the reasons he preferred goats over llamas. First was cost. He'd bought his older, bigger goat for $100 since it was registered, with the name of Rooster (Cogburn.) Peanut, the younger one, cost him $40 and was a 'rescue' goat. Compare that to prices for llamas that are in the $1,000-3,000 range, unless you get a good deal like the one Jim described.

Probably even more important is their disposition. He said they're quite intelligent and surprisingly docile. Around the campfire at night, they'll lay down by the fire and put their heads in his lap to have their ears scratched.


Peanut & Rooster Cogburn.

He was into the psychology on how to deal with them. He said he was alpha, with the bigger Rooster the Number Two and Peanut the also-ran. When I stood next to him, Rooster came over and butted me back; the owner said Rooster didn't like others to be between him and the boss. Quite loyal.

He said he makes sure the goats, especially Peanut, have on their orange waterproof vests during hunting season for obvious reasons.


Heading back to camp

Interesting sidenote was that the three guys were hiking a variety of 14ers and 13ers over the next few days with the goats. They were all ham radio enthusiasts (goats excluded) and were involved in a competition to carry lightweight ham gear up to broadcast from the peaks to record in a compilation book like birders do. So the goats toted the radio gear on the trail for them.
Posted by: lori

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/05/12 09:04 PM

Yep! and the goats also need to carry very little feed for themselves, since they are foragers. Also more agile than llamas - they can be trained to log crossings and rock hopping.

I have my sights set on a few goats myself, over the next ten years or so.
Posted by: OregonMouse

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/05/12 09:32 PM

Some places goats are banned because of worries they might spread disease to bighorns. If I lived in a place with a little acreage that allowed them, I'd get a couple, though. I wouldn't have to mow the lawn, either!
Posted by: lori

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/06/12 09:22 AM

Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Some places goats are banned because of worries they might spread disease to bighorns. If I lived in a place with a little acreage that allowed them, I'd get a couple, though. I wouldn't have to mow the lawn, either!


There was a ban in the Sierra in one area, but it's been lifted, I heard.
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/06/12 10:54 AM

Originally Posted By OregonMouse
Some places goats are banned because of worries they might spread disease to bighorns. If I lived in a place with a little acreage that allowed them, I'd get a couple, though. I wouldn't have to mow the lawn, either!


Yeah, I've had goats a couple times and eating the lawn is last on their list. They prefer your most expensive or favorite plants first. About four years ago I'd planted some Lilacs in the forest below our house in the Spring. In October I took my four Pygmy Goats down there for a walk and as soon as they got through the gate they literally ran 150 feet, past all kinds of forage, straight to my lilacs and started eating them. That's just one example.

Goats are amazing escape artist. When I was a youngster we had a big male goat who, after about a year, had eaten all our, and our neighbors, plants and gardens, so we decided to give him away. One of our friends had begged us to give him that goat so we called and offered it to him. About a month later he came to visit and tell us he had to get rid of the goat too. He told us the goat had eaten his neighbor's yard which included several thousands of dollars of landscaping and he was vigorously invited to pay for it all. The unhappy neighbor was Steve McQueen, who commented that the goat was welcome to eat his lawn, but since it never even touched it he thought it might be better if the goat was relocated. laugh

Our burros are a little better, and they will eat our lawn, but they too have a varied palate and right now they've devoured my 5 acres of pasture and hay will be hitting close to $10-$15 a square bale soon, so I'll be paying dearly to keep them fat and happy till next Spring at least, and I'm not even sure I'll be able to buy any hay, even at that price. frown
Posted by: oldranger

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/06/12 09:40 PM

Interesting stories. Makes you wonder what the environmental impact of grazing goats on wilderness vegetation would be. Any experiences?
Posted by: finallyME

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/08/12 10:23 AM

I have been looking at these guys for rental. Haven't contacted them yet, just thinking about it.

goat rental
Posted by: midnightsun03

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/10/12 04:11 PM

OldRanger...

There is a group that is using goats to keep the balds around Roan Mountain bald... they are eating back the invasive species that that have infiltrated into the area. They are fed a special "seed-free" diet during the winter months when they are not on the mountain.

MNS
Posted by: billstephenson

Re: Time to goAT packing - 08/10/12 04:35 PM

The thing about goats is that they will eat a variety of stuff throughout a day, and given enough room they'll keep moving along too. But that's mostly all they do is eat.

Donks and goats both eat poison ivy, which is great. I don't know how you'd keep them from eating stuff you don't want them too though. They're pretty smart, and very independent thinkers. My goats knew I didn't want them to eat my neighbor's roses, but they didn't really care. cry
Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/21/12 05:49 PM

Me and my goat herd in the Winds a few years ago. I own several and love to take them with me.

Posted by: rockchucker22

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/21/12 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By CJennings
Me and my goat herd in the Winds a few years ago. I own several and love to take them with me.

Wow awesome picture! I sooo love it!
Posted by: llamero

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 12:38 AM

Nice photo. Looks very intriguing. Do you have to string the goats together during a hike? Do they roam free at night? How much supplemental feed per day do they need and what kind? How come you are carrying such a large pack yourself? Really, it looks like a good time.
Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 01:25 AM

Originally Posted By llamero
Nice photo. Looks very intriguing. Do you have to string the goats together during a hike? Do they roam free at night? How much supplemental feed per day do they need and what kind? How come you are carrying such a large pack yourself? Really, it looks like a good time.


These goats were young at the time and I didn't want to overload them. We had four people on the trip and carried a lot of gear for a week. Nowadays, they each carry 40 to 50 lbs, so I just carry a daypack. Trained packgoats do not require stringing, they follow each other...once they work out the pecking order. Some areas of the Winds require it because they are imposing rules developed for horses and mules. As far as roaming free, some areas I highline them, other areas I let them loose so they can feed at night, but mine are so bonded to me, they either sleep under my hammock or right next to my tent. They do not require supplemental feed. Sometimes I do take a ziplock bag of calf manna or Purina Goat Feed merely as a treat. Goats are browsers and will do fine, even above treeline, if there is vegetation.
Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 01:27 AM

Last year in the Winds, on the East side. When on the trail, they are in a straight line, but we went off-trail for a few miles.

Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 01:31 AM

Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 01:34 AM

Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 01:37 AM



Posted by: llamero

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/22/12 11:28 AM

Looking good. Thanks.
Posted by: kevonionia

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/25/12 12:44 AM

Gorgeous pics. Beautiful goats. In the Winds, that's a dog in the back? How'd they all get along? Noticed the horns -- the guy we met had cut theirs off. Had any problem with them? And you have had them neutered?
Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/25/12 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By kevonionia
Gorgeous pics. Beautiful goats. In the Winds, that's a dog in the back? How'd they all get along? Noticed the horns -- the guy we met had cut theirs off. Had any problem with them? And you have had them neutered?


Thanks. One of the guys brought his bird dog along...my goats live with a Livestock Guardian Dog, his dog lives with his goats, so each is used to the other. Not always the case on the trail though. My first four goats have horns, I am switching to dis budded goats. Horns are a pain at home. All my packers are castrated. Bucks, or non-castrated goats, are disgusting and rank. Wethers behave themselves. It would not be a good idea to take a buck into the Winds, if the Bighorn Sheep ewes are cycling (in heat).
Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/25/12 10:15 AM

Domestic dogs can do some real damage to goats if they are not on a leash. Seems to bring out the predator instinct in some of them.
Posted by: LookinUp

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/25/12 10:55 AM

Fascinating topic! Thanks for sharing! Have you ever had any issues with cougars?
Posted by: CJennings

Re: Time to goAT packing - 11/25/12 02:35 PM

Originally Posted By LookinUp
Fascinating topic! Thanks for sharing! Have you ever had any issues with cougars?


Not personally, but I know people that have had their goats killed by cougars. A few years ago I spotted a cougar in the back of my property, that's when I bought an LGD dog. We occasionally see bears, but the bears seem to leave them alone for some reason.