Gear critique and questions

My daughter and I have decided to hike the Colorado Trail leaving in about 3 weeks. I don't know if I can make it happen as I'll have to sell a couple cars and motorcycles to get the money. Not to mention quitting my job which isn't so great anyway.

We need to go lightweight as my daughter only weighs 97 pounds. I'd appreciate some critique on gear. All the gear is bathroom scale weight and may be off a little bit. Things in italics are things I could really use help on.

Packs:

World Famous Everest: Just under 4 pounds (external frame)
World Famous Northface: Just under 4 pounds (external frame)

Sleeping bags: 1 Alpine 20 degree bag each (2 1/2 pounds)

Tent: Ozark Trails 3 person tent (Walmart): 5 1/2 pounds. (This tent is surprisingly good quality and doesn't leak.)

Stove: Svea 123R
Gasoline: 1/2 liter for a week (Pepsi can stoves are illegal here duing fire restrictions and after 34 years, I kind of like this stove as it runs on gasoline. It's very reliable.)

Clothes:
2 pairs each REI lightweight shirts and pants that convert to shorts.

We'd like a recommendation for something to keep our legs warm if it gets real cold. Something like long johns.

My daughter has a light poncho. I have a rain suit which is a little heavy, but the top can double as a windbreaker around camp.

Shoes: Big 5 specials. I'd like a recommendation on something not too expensive that will stay dry in things like wet grass. They also need to be suitable for mild trail running.

Socks: 2 pairs each Smartwool

Cookwear: .775 liter Alpine Stainless steel - 13 Oz. A small aluminum pan that fits inside.
I'd be willing to go titanium, but I don't want to buy a whole set to get two pieces..
2 plastic coffee cups. 2 spoons.

Here is where I could use a little help. I need something like a good ski jacket for protection that will pack small. It would be for emergency use only, so it could be vacuum packed along the way. Or perhaps there is a combination of layering that would work. Please be specific on brand and type. (Cheap is good.

1/2 washcloth for dishes
1 washcloth/towel about washcloth size of absorbant camp towel. (We like to keep it moist to clean off during the day away from water.)

SPOT satellite transmitter/locater so resupply help will know where we were and to summon help in an emergency

Maps: 11.5 Oz We will probably split these up into 3 grops.

Databook: A few ounces.

Water: This is a real problem as we find we like to carry a gallon apiece except where we absolutely know there is water. We use 1 pint 7 oz Arrowhead plastic bottles. We run a lot, so use extra.

First aid Kit: Real simple. Some bandaids, tweezers and duct tape. 1 Ace bandage. Excedrin for migraines. (Neither one of us ever gets blisters.)

Trekking poles: Black Diamond.

Kindle: (For getting weather reports and email from someone who will be watching weather for us.)

Food: Mountain House, etc. Granola Bars, hot cereal, coffee, rice, and whatever else. Longest stretch between possibe resupply will be 7 days and 100 miles.

Parachute cord: 25 feet
Bear bag: a pillowcase.

Wash basin: A 1 pound plastic Folgers coffeecan.

Packcovers: None. I left both packs out in a long rain storm and nothing even got damp.

Last time we went out with 7 days of food, the combined pack weight was 57 pounds including water. I'd like to bring that down about 9 pounds if possible. My daughter would like a 20 pound pack and I'd like a 28 pound pack.

Knife: None. Never found a use for one.

Needle - dental floss for thread.

Our plan is to start out at about 8 miles a day and then get to 15 miles a day in about 10 days. We plan on taking a zero day every 7th day.

Thanks for the help,

Gershon & Somehow

Hi there,

A few things really jump out at me. Have you backpacked at all before? A long trip like that when you haven't done some short trips to refine the gear selection is a bit much - there's a certain amount of skill building for backpacking.

what's your anticipated nighttime lows for this trail? If that's an Alpine Design from Sports Authority, it's not a 20F bag - probably more realistically a 40-50F bag. I had one of those a long time ago. They are cheap and cold.

If Pepsi can stoves are illegal why can you take a gasoline stove? I've never seen alcohol stoves only bans. And I live in the land of fire bans.

drop 1 pair pants apiece. Only need one. I doubt you'll have an issue with keeping your legs warm, but if you take a base layer it'll come with bottoms you can wear under the pants, if necessary.

The logical choice for shoes if you are wanting to keep your socks dry is Goretex trail runners. I would take bread bags or Goretex socks and put them on over my socks as necessary, and take my not-Goretex shoes. That way I can use them when needed, and take them off when not needed, and still have breathable shoes.

There are down and synthetic jackets - you won't need to vac seal them. No need for anything for skiing. I'd use it when you want to at camp - why be uncomfortable? Look at deals at Eddie Bauer.

Are you sure you'll get a signal with the Kindle often enough?

You could use a halved 2 liter pop bottle instead of the coffee can and save some weight.

You don't list sleeping pads - you really, really should. Your warmth at night, particularly with cheap inaccurately rated bags, will depend on them.

I'd take a knife. There are trips that I don't use it, but they are rare - and when you need one, you need one. It's a safety issue really.

Suggest a pack liner instead of a cover - you can use trash bags easy enough.

Driducks is light rain gear, not durable but if you are not bushwacking they are okay. Easily fixed by duct tape - which you should have along to repair things anyway.

Lori,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I have a lot of backpacking experience, but with all old school stuff and things I brought from home. My longest trip is 2 weeks self-contained in survival school. My daughter has been with going with me every weekend this summer. She is a much stronger hiker than I am. The big question will be the cumulative mental and physical effects of a longer hike. We won't know that until we try it.

We live in Colorado, so the altitude won't be a problem. We have been hiking from 9,500 to 11,500 feet each weekend and we don't mind uphill.

The 2 liter bottle is a good idea. We will use that next week.

When we were out in early June our water bottles froze solid, but I don't know how cold it got. We were both warm.

In Colorado, a stove has to have a shutoff valve and be UL approved to be legal when there is a stage 1 fireban which is pretty much everywhere now.

We may go with a pair of shorts instead of extra pants as we need something to wear when we are washing the other. (We like to wash our clothes everyday in camp.)

I have a Driducks rainsuit. Lucky choice I guess.

Thanks for the tip on shoes. I'll check them out.

I don't know about the Kindle. We will take it out on a test hike. We can usually get cell service on the high points.

If you can recommend a specific coat from Eddie Bauer, I'd appreciate it.

We've been planning this since May or so, but it was for next year. Now we just want to go.

I think it is the issue of an on/off valve that distinguishes between legal and illegal stoves. If there is no shutoff valve on a stove, then, in some cases, they are illegal during a fire ban. Same thing applies to the wood burning stoves that are increasing in popularity.

+1 on all your other points. I would add, though, that they could save some weight and add some convenience by using a canister stove rather than a Svea 123. And, even a single-edge razor blade tucked away somewhere would be better than no knife at all.

Since two people recommended a knife, I guess I'll get a small one.

Thanks

For a cool/cold weather jacket I bring a fleece. Layer it with my rain jacket/wind breaker. If you need more warmth add a base-layer underneath (moisture wicking long-john type shirt).

as far as long-john type stuff. Lots available at sierra trading post at a good price. (make sure you locate a coupon code before ordering. They come out with a new coupon code at least a couple times a week:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/d/164_Mens-Long-Underwear-Tops.html

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/d/163_Mens-Long-Underwear-Bottoms.html

I know what you mean about a knife. I hardly ever use mine, but my father always told me you should be able to survive a week in the wilderness with nothing more than a knife.... so I always carry one.

If you want a cheaper lightweight replacement cookpot, you could get the Walmart grease pot. Also available here: http://www.end2endtrailsupply.com/Stanco_Greasepot.html

My usual is a Leatherman Micra - in addition to the tiny sharp blade that folds out, the scissors allows me to cut things more effectively - I've cleaned fish, trimmed nails, cut moleskin, snipped cord/rope... and the blade has been useful for slicing cheese or whittling a bit of wood into a makeshift tent stake. All depends on what you're doing and your approach to doing it.

Don't even say "I guess I will get a small one" referring to a knife. Just get one or borrow one...sorry to sound pushy but it REALLY is a matter of safety/preparedness. My smallest knife hardly weighs anything, is under 2 inches in length, has 3 different shaped blades for carving, and has been very useful for making things I needed at the time and for first aid.

I also like the Micra. It replaced a couple of items in my first aid kit (scissors and tweezers); I don't use it a lot, but when I need it, it's pretty much exactly what I need.

Always carrying a gallon of water is really excessive and VERY heavy. I hope I read this right. Your water needs are proportionate to your body weight and how much you sweat. Colorado high altitude mountains are not the Sonora Desert. In alpine condtions I can go an entire day on 1 liter of water if I "tank up" in the morning and eveinings while in camp. I weigh a bit more than your daughter. My husband who sweats a lot and is about 185 pounds goes through 2 liters of water a day in cool alpine condtions. Are their water souces along the way? I do not carry a filter, but iodine tabs treat water in 30 minutes. I never am so thirsty that I cannot wait 30 minutes. Not that you want to regularly drink iodine treated water, but to drink a little bit a day should be OK. Also, if you are carrying +2 liters of water, and you have regular water sources along the route, carrying a filter is more efficient than carrying an entire day's water. It is my impression that Colorado mountains have lots of water sources.

Also, if you are carrying more than 2 pounds food per day for you and 1.5 pounds per day for your daughter you probably are taking the wrong kind of food. On a long trip, getting your food weight correct goes a long ways to reduce pack weight.

Oh, another overall observation. Your gear is on the cheap side. Walmart tents may be great new, but some of this cheaper gear does not wear well and can fail on long trips. In fact some cheap shoes actually fall apart if you are out several weeks. On a long trip, I take enough duct tape to keep shoes together if needed and a small spool of thread (or dental floss) and needle, a few spare buttons, a few safety pins, a few extra clevis pins for external frame packs, and enough parachute cord (about 20 feet) to fix a broken pack strap (I have had to do this before)or use as shoe laces, replace lost tent string and repair other things. My husband once split out the seat of his pants and repaired them with moleskin! I have had to sew up various rips. Last year a zipper failed on a jacket, so I sewed it up into an anorack using dental floss.

Mine has not only proven handy for first aid, but also handy for creating the need for first aid.

Over the years, I've learned to pay attention when I use one, though.

If you're looking to upgrade some gear, but don't want to mortgage the house to do it, there are some good brands that aren't overly costly, and will give you reasonable weight and excellent quality and durability. Some that spring to mind offhand are Kelty, Sierra Designs, and REI's house brand.

There are also some good anodized aluminum cooksets out there right now that aren't too hateful in price; the GSI Outdoors Microdualist might be a good one for you and your daughter - it's minimalist, but highly functional.

WD was spot on. I spend a bit of time on the Colorado Trail and seldom carry more than a quart and a half. There are some places - Segment 27 domes to mind - that you might want to carry more, but a gallon is way more than needed.

I would recomend a five dollor wallmart Grease pot for cookware. Ditch the folgers plastic can for a wash basin. I take either a sea to summit pocket shower or Cut top off a plastic milk jug. Cut off milk jug weighs half what a coffee can does. Wallmart grease pot is only about a ounce heavier than comprable Ti Pot and 40 bucks cheaper. Cabelas bargain cave oven has excellent deals on light down jackets or I prefer my vest! Have fun good luck.

Thanks for the help everyone. For the first 3 or 4 sections, we have no choice but to carry extra water as we get migraines if we get thirsty. But we have it worked out. We will take some of the suggestions everyone gave.

The good news is I got time off from work, so I don't have to quit my job.

The next problem is food. We will probably go with a lot of expensive dehydrated as time is too short to test alternatives, but that's the way it is.

We will just have to see what kind of miles we can hike each day and sustain it. It's time to just have fun and see what happens.

If you don't need meat with every meal, you might look at the Lipton/Knorr rice and noodle side dishes - they're really inexpensive, and taste pretty good. They take longer to prepare, so you might need to factor in more fuel. If I remember right, you'll have a Svea stove - since it simmers pretty well, it will be a good choice for these meals.

You can buy foil-pack chicken (tuna, and other meat) to add to them, but depending on the cost of these extras, you soon are back up to the cost of freeze-dried, and carrying more weight.

The best freeze-dried I've found so far are the Enertia brand (some of their offerings are also sold under the Coleman brand.)

Have a great trip.

Sarbar's website (she's a regular contributor here), TrailCooking.com, has lots of ideas for almost instant meals using supermarket ingredients. Most are very easy to put together and need only boiling water to prepare.

The date has been moved up to Aug 2, so now we are a little time compressed, but it will work out.

Right now the food is a major issue as there isn't a lot of supply in the stores for a bulk purchase. But I think a store here will be able to get some in time.

The tuna packages are a good idea. We are going to need to add calories.

Fortunately, we arranged for a trail angel after the 4th day to bring us into a town. We've done that before, so it won't be anything new.

We have someone following us on a SPOT transmitter who is good at arranging rescue if we need it. Messages can be sent to his cell phone, so he won't need to be glued to the computer. And he will also communicate with my wife about resupply points.

We have two days in the first 4 where we will have to travel with extra water. We've arranged for a trail angel after the 4th day to take us to a town where we can adjust to anything we find ou in the first 4 days.

Last night we had a discussion about how many miles we can do a day without a problem. We realized we were taking too many breaks as we each thought the other needed it. We have time for a practice day hike on Sunday to see if it works out taking fewer breaks. If not, we can still muddle through.

We've decided to break for a real cooked meal for lunch as running out of energy seems to be a function of not eating well. We did that this past weekend and made better time including the stop. (The SVEA stove is very quick to cook on. It takes about 4 and a half minutes to boil water from the time I start to light it).

We realize we waste a lot of energy in camp just pacing or exploring. We will probably stop at our planned campsite, but if the weather is good, we will meander a couple of miles to a dry campsite to get a head start on the next day.

I wish we could start out being able to do 15 miles a day, but we can't. So we have the first week planned as just a regular outting averaging about 7 to 10 miles a day and we will work up as we can. Fortunately, we are starting out at low altitude (for us)of 6 to 7,000 feet. We are used to hiking between 9,000 feet and 11,500. The terrain will be a lot flatter than we are used to with the climbs only being about 500 feet per mile. (We have been practicing in places with about 1,200 feet per mile.)

The plan isn't perfect, but I think it's safe. If we can't do the whole trail, we will just have fun for as much of it as we can do.

We are both nervous, but I think that's what we call "pre-hike depression." Once we get going it will be a lot better.

Wish us luck.

Good luck. It sounds like you've done a pretty good job of planning, and are at least thinking about the potential problems (just don't forget to think about the potential joys, too.)

Don't worry about the miles - enjoy yourself and each other.

The planning is as done as it's going to be. We ran into a couple snags. Section 4 has a 13 mile stretch without water. It's one of the real mountainous parts so it might take 2 days. Fortunately, there is an alternate route where the trail used to go. We will decide at the intersection. Maybe spit on a hand and clap and see where most of it goes.

The big problem is section 18 where there is a 23 mile stretch without water. And if we are a day late, the trail angel won't be available, so it would be 32 miles. We may meet someone along the trail who can tell us differently. There are some water sources that might be available. If it can't be done, we will go around.

Realistically, the chance of a "white blaze" through hike is small, but life isn't a "white blaze" trail. Somewhere along the line, the drive to do the whole trail perfectly crept in. We had to remind ourselves the original intent was to have fun for 40 days and get where we get.

Today it's off to buy food. I already ordered a bunch of dehydrated food. Now it's other stuff. Then we will have to separate it into 8 boxes for resupplies along the way. We decide to hit towns more often than really needed.

With a real conservative plan it will take us 49 days which puts us near snow time. We will have to watch that carefully and err on the side of safety and drop out if we really do hit the 49 days.

I'm a micro planner so the plan is quite detailed, but we are flexible enough to change. The micro planning is just to get familiar with the trail. Once we start, it will be pretty free.

On a real positive note, I won't lose any pay. Work will cover for me. They are real excited about the hike.

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement.

Please review the data book. There is a lot of water in Segment 4. The water late in the year can be a little thin on Segment 18, but probably not a problem. Segment 26 to 27 has a long stretch, but water is likely at 11.7 of 27.

Somehow and I are leaving tomorrow. We decided to just hike the first half of the trail. The second half was getting to be too difficult to plan because of water and resupply and the possibility of snow late in the season should we move slower than planned.

There is still one day with no water for 10 miles. (Segment 2.) I confirmed this with someone who hiked it recently. On that day, I'll be starting heavy. About 44 pounds, but it will go down a LOT as we progress as I'm carrying most of the water. A lot of that section is in the open, so it will be hot. Fortunately, the weather forecast calls for cooler days then.

Somehow's pack will be 28 pounds. Somehow will be carrying most of the food, so the days after resupply are a little shorter to account for higher weight.

Segment 4 does have a 13 mile section without water with lots of elevation change, so we decided to bypass that on the old trail.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I wish I'd had a couple years to hang out here and learn more. But I think we will have fun and be safe.

Lori, thanks for the info on an itinerary in the other thread.

Just an update after 5 days.

We had to take a couple of zero days due to a foot problem. But it's fine now.

The Walmart tent is gone and I went to REI and got another one today.

One of the cameras died, so I'll buy another tomorrow.

The cell phone is kaput.

I left the Kindle home at the last minute deciding the weight wasn't worth it.

We really do like starting out with over a gallon of water apiece and then not stopping along the way to refill unless we need to.

The Svea 123 stove is great. After 5 days we only used a small amount of gas. I could carry half as much, but I probably won't.

The shoes will probably wear out before the end. It seems they are good for about 150 miles, so we will get new ones tomorrow and exchange them after the next segment.

5 days of food lasts 4 days.

Hiking in the rain while picking fresh strawberries on the trail is wonderful.

Torrential rain and hail is not so wonderful.

We hike a lot faster going uphill.

Wet shoes stink. Shoes are always wet.

SPOT is great for getting out simple messages to someone observing us. Don't sit the pack next to the outhouse while using it or you will get a funny picture in your email.

This is a whole different experience than just a couple nights out, but it's lot of fun.

Oh well, time to get some sleep.

Gershon

There were flash flood warnings right on Segments 1 & 2 on the day you started.

Not surprised that the Wal*Mart tent is being replaced.

We knew about the flash flood warnings before we started. Seg 1 isn't really a problem the way the trail went. We got a weather update from a sheriff before starting seg 2 and were past the burn areas well before the rain started and along a road in a protected dry area.

Just to show we had a lot of fun, here is a video of the first 3 segments. We will be back out tomorrow doing segments 4 and 5. Then maybe a zero day and on to 6.

Hey Gershon. You the same Gershon I know from the other forums? Great video, beautiful area!

Yes, same one. We went on to segment 4, but had to come back out because of a foot problem. We finished segment 9 yesterday which was pretty brutal, but the views are worth it. I hope to have a video up today. (Credit my son for the videos.)

I found my stamina is no good above 11,000 feet, so tomorrow we are going out for 3 days on another lower segment.

I'm really learning the value of good gear. The next thing to replace will be our raingear. Suggestions are welcome. Price isn't important. We will just save until we can afford it.

Our old external frame packs are great. Sleeping bags are bulky, but are working well and are light. The SVEA 123 stove is something I'll never replace even though it's a bit heavy. It just keeps working after about 35 years.

We are looking for better quality shoes that last more than 100 miles and more importantly, dry quickly.

I'm a real believer in synthetic pants and shirts. When we hike in the rain, I don't put on a raincoat as it's more comfortable. They stay warm enough and dry quickly when the rain stops.

That sounds great, enjoying time with your kids outdoors. Very nice.

I believe I remember you saying you were thinking about purchasing the Marmot Precip...did you change your mind?

I went to REI and the suggested an REI brand which they said was better for what I generally do in the rain. (Stand around.) The person said she used it and it was more waterproof than the Marmot Precip. It does look pretty good and I can take it back if it doesn't work.