New Guy List

Howdy guys, i'm new here.

My name is Scott, i'm 17 and a highschool senior. I've spent a few years in the BSA and have probally 50 or so nights of camping under my belt,but never truly been "backpacking". I've been hiking and camping, but never combined the two.

Over my christmas break i'm going with one of my buddies for a 20+ mile backpacking trip on parts of the AT. he gave me a general list, so i'd like to get yall's list too and see what all i need. I've contacted a user here with a kelty moraine 3600ci pack that i hope is still for sale. So that'll be my first pack if i can get my hands on it.
I've got a 0* mummy bag i've been using and in its compression sack its probally 9" in diamter and a foot in length. It may work to start with, but i think to become a true backpacker, i'll need a more compact one, so what are some ideas for that?

I've got my eye on some rain gear now, and i'll probally go cheep, like frogg toggs for my first set.
I've got a few fleeces to wear under it, including a north face

Where to go from there?
Socks, thermals, hat, light, and gloves..
then for when i need my on esental gear, as a stove and stuff, might as well get that list going too. but first , give me some ideas on my basics not including the actual camp gear (stove, tent,etc)

-Scott

It sounds like you're about to make the same mistake I did when I started out. I was in a similar situation where I had grown up camping etc. but had never combined it with walking (a.k.a. backpacking).

That mistake is - you're looking to buy your pack first. Take my advice and sink a serious chunk of change into a sleeping bag or quilt. I started out with a 0 degree Swiss Gear Mummy bag and between it and minimal gear I could fill up my LARGE Alice pack! That was 12lbs in just my sleeping bag and pack! I quickly ditched that and just started using my poncho liner when it was above 40 degrees at night.

I then bought a Golite Ultra 20 Quilt (these can be had on sale these days since they're being discontinued next year and are great bang for the buck) and started calculating up the volume of the rest of my gear. Picked up a few more items to get the weight and volume down and ended up with a Golite Ion for a pack. How's that for a big difference?

My list before food and water is roughly this. Comments to the side are generally going to be how I intend to further decrease weight and/or volume.

Packing, Shelter, and Sleeping
-"Accessorized" Golite Ion (about 1750 cubic inches atm)
-Integral Designs 5x8 Siltarp (replace with poncho tarp and true bivy)
-Driducks Poncho (modified to work as a "bivy" if it actually rains around here)
-Blue CCF Pad cut to torso length (Replace with Thermarest Prolite Small)
-Golite Ultra 20

Kitchen
-800ml Aluminum Pot (Replace with 600ml Snowpeak Ti Cup)
-Firesteel
-Mini Bic
-Benchmade Nimravus (Replace with Rat Cutlery Izula)
-Supercat Alcohol Stove
-Alcohol Container
-Plastic Spork
-Bandanna
-Water Purification Tabs

First Aid and Misc.
-Assortment of Band aids
-Classic Swiss Army Knife
-Repackaged Pain Killers
-Prescription Meds I have to have
-Needle w/ eye big enough to take floss for thread
-Toothbrush, Toothpast, Floss

Look around and see if you can rent or borrow a pack for this trip, which I assume will be no more than two nights at the most. It will give you valuable insight into what will work for you. Your pack is a critical purchase, and the more experience you have when you plunk down the money, the better.

1) Buy your pack last if at all possible. You will want to get a feel for what gear you *do* want to carry first, and buy your pack to fit that gear. Otherwise most people fall into the trap of buying something too big "just in case" and too expensive.

If you can borrow a pack - great. do that for the first trip, and concentrate on getting yourself a relatively lightweight comfortable set of gear to carry in the pack first.

There's an excellent "18 pound 3 day" gear list you can have a look at on this parent site (www.backpacking.net). it should give you some ideas. Mine is posted in my signature.

When you have a peek at mine, bear in mind that if I roll up my blue foam pad and carry it outside the pack - I can put tha t list of gear, and 4 nights food in a 30 litre(1800 Cubic inch) daypack. That doesn't mean you need to go that extreme right away, just bear in mind that you may not need a metric ton of gear in a huge pack to be comfortable if you think about it carefully.

Don't worry about light or small yet. Borrow or rent a pack, or buy used and cheap. Stay warm - concentrate on clothes that allow you to be out in weather and stay dry, so if weather does get nasty, it won't pin you down. DO NOT go the quilt route without a great deal of experience yet.

Do try your gear in the backyard first. Have a reliable stove, good gloves, and reasonable footwear.

To reiterate, one of my long term constants in camping philosophy has been to carry gear that would allow me to get back to my truck when others were pinned by storms. I've used a GPS in white outs to find my truck that was only 1/4 mile away. Long underwear that wicks is critical.

Most folks carry an assortment of "city" items with no real purpose for camping. As a boyscout they encouraged you to do this, not through malice, but just because "common sense" is a lot more elusive than many think.

Jim

Jim

thanks guys.

I do understand about buying the pack last. I've got i good idea of what i wanna take and accumulating that before. for this trip, i can borrow from my buddy who's done half of the AT. He said that 2000 cubes is the biggest you'll need. I'm thinking 3000 to pack my sleeping bag inside.

I do have a sleeping bag that works well and i'm looking to upgrade to a more compact one. I think personally that the pack should be first, cause i've got access to everything else but, i'll listen and look around and get the rest before i get a pack. And our boyscout leader was a vietnam vet and disagreed with the city stuff. everything we used was basically camp in front of it, shovel,stove, etc.
the biggest city item we ever had was the chuckwagon box we built and it had goodies in it. I did lie a little bit, i have backpacked a little bit maybe a mile and half one way carrying what we needed in school packs, and later on my external frame pack. But its old, and deffinately not comfortable.

and also, i live on 40 acres so i've got somewhere to test it out which we do a good bit. Once i get my pack, and stove (on order) i'll spend a weekend night out and test out how packable i can be.

I agree with the advice here--don't sweat the details too much on your first trip. Take more than you need, and learn from the experience.

Having said that, here is a link to our equipment list---part of a new website that we are creating about for those who backpackthesierra. It has all the stuff we take, and if you explore the site a bit, it also talks about what we like, what hasnt' worked for us, and what we'd like to try in the future!

http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home/our-equipment-list

so, overall what size pack do i need to look for? i'm thinking now 2500 at the most. sound good?

Minimum pack size is completely determined by the gear you carry. That's why we keep saying to buy it last. Assuming the manufacturer is accurate in their listed pack volumes you can calculate the volume of each piece of gear you have and add it all up. Then determine how much room you'll need for food and water and add the two together and you'll be somewhat close to the minimum pack size you can use. Go a bit over though so you don't have to over compress your insulated gear.

Or you could post up a comprehensive gear list and people here may be able to tell you the size range you need to be looking for in a pack. Remember to include how much food and water you need to carry per day you'll be out AND what kind of food it is.

One other component of your gear to continue to keep in mind is that of multiple use. There is no reason to carry a really warm cold weather bag, just to take all the warm clothing you are wearing off to get in it! If you are bundled up, those insulating layers should also be used in conjunction with your sleeping bag. That will allow you to use a lighter/smaller/more compact bag. Give it some thought

I basically will be taking the 18lb 3day list from the parent site. Its normally what i take anyway.
food, will probally be a handfull of vienna's and then some of the freeze dried food from walmart in its camping section.
Some of the stuff i'd like to know about is what kind of gloves would i need? i wont need anything less than 0* so what kind do i need?

And, what are good brands for thermals? or are the haynes ones everyone has decent enough?

As for buying gear, I always was a proponent of buying the best sleeping bag and pad you can to start with. No matter what, you cannot beat a good nights sleep to keep you going on a trip. These two items are the basis for your gear list.

i think my sleeping bag will suffice for now as far as temp rating at 0*. i wont be doing anything below that anytime soon.

but i'm worried about it not being as packable as others.
I can get along without the pad for now

I agree about wearing clothes in a bag, though I tend to select a bag to match the coldest expected conditions and use the clothes as a safety margin for unexpected drops in temperature. However, I've known others who successfully use them as an integral part of a sleeping system.

Regardless of whether you consider them an integral part of your sleep system or as a safety margin, there are two conditions of using clothes in a bag:

1. The clothes have to be dry. Wet clothes simply soak the bag and make you colder.

2. There has to be enough room in the bag that the insulation in the bag and the clothing isn't being compressed - if it is, it's not going to keep you warmer.

exactly.

Ive always had them as a safty margin.
also, my bsa leader, told me when i first joined ,to sleep in a tee and shorts, pack everthing else around your feet. i've been using this technique since and it has always worked for me. I know its an argumentive point, but it works, so i'll stick to it.

well I decided to get a pack today. a Coleman 65 L. It seemed like a good deal, even though its a little big and coleman has always been a good brand to me. But, i did try and fit a sleeping bag like mine in it, and it did fit. And i think wtih everything cinched, it'll tighten down to what ineed it for.



-Scott

Weighed up my items,
and my winter 0* bag rolls to the 5Lb 6oz mark, and the pack, empty is 4lbs 15oz. so basically 10.5 lbs with the bag and the pack, this is starting to seem heavier than i'd like, but we'll see how it all goes in.

My sleeping bag does fit in that lower compartment, so i have the whole upper to store stuff in, i also have the option of zipping the divider between the two open...

alright,
i ordered a set of frogg toggs for now.
Next thing, is i'm going on a litte trip over thanksgiving break, and i'll be going full backpacking.

I've been checking out trailcooking.com and the FBC, so i'm going to eat off that. I work at the piggly wiggly, so today at work I looked around for some good stuff to use. I'm thinking mashed potatoes, with butter, and gravy then some rice a roni for taste. soup for the second night and i'm gonna use bisquick for breakfast. Sounds tasty to me!

IMO this is what it's all about - getting out there and doing it. No need for the latest and greatest required and even with almost 10lbs between pack and sleeping bag you can still rock a lightweight setup that shouldn't kill you (or make you want to kill yourself) at the end of the day.

Now... to find some time to follow my own advice.

I've always loved it, and i have a stack of backpacker magazines that i've read cover to cover multiple times, but never got out to do it. Now, i cant wait till next week to get out and try some of this stuff.
We have a very generous member here, that has decided to give me his extra set of gear including a pack and sleeping bag that save 5lbs a single person tent, hiking poles, thermarest pad, cook set and canister stove, miniworks ex filter and water container.
This basically gives me everything i need to go backpacking, minus the rain gear which i have ordered, and clothes which i can get myself. I'll leave his name out of it for now, but he'll read this, since he's posted on the thread, and i'll let the option of letting his name out for him.

A pad is very important. Don't forget it. You can buy a $6 one at Walmart. It is not for comfort, but for staying warm.

well now i'm getting a 48" pad with that stuff.

Well turns out the frogg toggs didnt get ordered. so i told my uncle to order some cascade series pants by campmor. I think they'll be more durable than frogg toggs.

Got my gear today, and man is it light!

I'm looking forward to the first time i get to use it. oh wait, i'm going to try it out tonight!

Cant wait

-Scott

Have a great trip! A tip for cold weather camping- no matter what your sleeping bag is rated, it will not keep you warm until the inside is warmed up. I usually take a short walk or even do calisthentics before hopping into the bag so that my body at least starts out warm. A nice hot drink or hot dinner really helps too. Do not stand around too much at night and get really chilled before bedtime.

And, if you put on too many clothes when you first get in the sleeping bag, the bag never warms up properly. I have had the best luck by hopping in with just my base layers (after excercising so that I am also warm) to get the bag warmed. I too put cloths inside the bag at the foot and later if it gets colder, I put on more.

Also, keep the head and neck warm. Take a second hat- a 3 oz balaclava works well.

didnt get to camp last night, but its all good. i'll do it at least one night next week.
I know that everyone has their own logic about this, but i've always stripped to a white tee, boxers,shorts and socks. then put my long sleeved stuff down around my feet,and a water bottle in the bottom.

and no matter how cold, in what sleeping bag, from my 30 degree,15 degree, to 0 degree, i've never been cold. and everyone else i've camped with has never believed me, and had 5 layers on, and froze. Until it fails me, i'll go with what works for me. I jsut got a 30* western mountaineering megalite bag, so i'll be trying it out probally tuesday night, and maybe thursday night too.

You just demonstrated that individuals' body thermostats can vary widely! That's why we all have to say YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)!

yeah, i'm gonna try my best to camp out tommorrow night, behind my house. i'll just go off in some corner of the propery, hopefully the dogs wont bother me

Dogs? hah. no problem. the Last time I camped in someone's back yard I woke up next to a guy wearing a kilt.

I have dogs in the back yard, that get rowdy at night sometimes, and then the whole country out here gets barky. haha

You need either less cough syrup or much more...your choice.

Well got my rain suit.

Ended up with a Columbia IBEX suit. its nice, with tags, new 50.00 and paid 35 W/ shipping.

Now onto hiking boots and i'll be set

What kind of weather are you going to be hiking in? Will it be wet, rainy, or maybe very cold. A glove should be purchased with all these things and more in mind. Are they going to need to be water proof? Will they need to block the wind. Figure out what conditions you are specifically going to be hiking in and then chose the gloves...or clothes for that matter...sabre11004...

You should be able to purchase hiking boots the same way that you purchase everything else. What type of hiking are you going to be doing? What kind of terrain will you be trekking on? How far are you going and are you just doing sections or are you doing a through hike? All these are the same considerations that you have when buying other gear too. Some trips you might want to wear an all out hiking boot because of the terrain and some times you may want to wear a walking type shoe because of really maintained trails. Just depends a great deal where and how hard and how far you are going...sabre11004

I feel like i'll be anywhere and everywhere so, i'll probally get an all out boot to be safe.

And i tried on some niceee columbia waterproof gloves the other day at dicks. i'm going to wait till near christmas to get them.

And then I have worn a walking type shoe bushwacking down the north side of a heavily forested and steep mountain with no ill effects. I actually like them better then my heavy all out hiking boots....YMMV

Your milage may vary.

You can wear sneakers the next time you go ridge hiking in Hawaii. I'll be the guy wearing boots.

The ridges there tend to have a rut the width of your foot down the middle of a shoulder wide ridge.

That is not to say that it can't be done. I did it once. The question is really one of risk tolerance - if you twist an ankle, the day won't end well.

This goes back to the point that you should scope your requirements carefully, and not be afraid to start at a low cost solution - remember, I started with sneakers and bought the boots to solve a problem.

Me too! I've hiked in Hawaii, pictured lots of sandal-wearing and white sand before I went. The reality of hiking through dense Hala jungle growing from razor-sharp crenelated lava was another thing entirely.

Zalman

I get it. Did you get out onto fresh flows when you were there? When my wife and I did it (day hiking, thank God), the fresh (cooled and hardened) lava had a layer on top of it that was like glass, and it broke off in chunks the width of a coke bottle as we walked on it. The landscape was like a demented parking lot, covered in broken coke bottles. Jeans, leather gloves, and long sleaves were in order on that stuff. And we carried A LOT of water. Of course, we followed some vulcanologists out past where USGS said it was a good idea to go to see that...

Steadman

Exactly so. I lived within 5 miles of the active lava flow. Walking on the sort of terrain you describe was de riguer. Too close to the lava and my boot soles would start melting, as the sulphur fumes fried my eyes out. Definitely the most literally "hellish" ecology I've wandered through.

The Hawaiians aren't quite as strict as we mainlanders are about safety rules either. Lots of people got injured or killed on popular stroll-from-your-car routes in the National Park, thinking "they would have this roped off if it wasn't safe!" Let The Hiker Beware.

Yes, I miss that attitude about safety here in the East. "If in doubt, don't go out" applied on the water and in the backcountry. It seemed like a couple hikers a year would get lost (like, never found lost) when I lived out there, but I'm probably exaggerating. It was nice being treated like an adult.

Steadman

I'm doing my hiking this weekend in tennis shoes. i havent found the boots i like so i'm just doing it in tennis shoes

And the temperature is going to be in the teens? Are you sure you'll be able to keep your feet warm? (If you're going to be in the wet - rain or snow - AND it's cold, you may be asking for trouble.)

Since this is an ROTC trip - any chance of borrowing some combat boots that fit?

Photo guy
carry spare socks and plastic grocery bags to put over the socks inside you tennis shoes.
good luck, better you than me.
Jim

Yes, I'd take at least 2 pair spare socks plus at least 2 pair of produce bags. Be sure to wear gaiters, too. Personally, I wouldn't go out in that weather without boots big enough for 2 pair of socks! You might look at some toe warmers, too.

I'd want those insoles to be a little thicker too.

well i decided to take my combat boots before i read this anyway.

i'll be in knee high wool socks too

Be sure not to lace those boots too tight. Too tight will eliminate the loft that makes it warm, and can constrict it from releasing sweat vapor.

I hope you have a great time out there.

i indeed had a great time. i slept in the tent with the XO and Instuctor Long. Since my contract is up, i got offered a spot as Midshipman. so, now i get to be staff. so that included eating steak, and pasta, and breakfast in the log cabin we rented for emergencies. I did use all my gear except my tent and it all preformed perfect. i love it, and cant wait to go again!

Thats not an adequate report. We wrote a lot more than that helping you. Did the shoes work? Pack? etc
Jim

didnt have time yesterday or today to give a decent report. tommorrow i should though.