pack liner or rain cover

which is the preferred method of keeping your pack contents dry? i can see advantages to both, as well as disadvantages. i have an osprey atmos 65 and i'm trying to plan for wet weather season.

thx.

Pack liners, plural, are my choice. The pack covers I've used don't really keep the pack dry and they make it tough to access anything inside.

I put everything that cannot get wet in a pack liner, and also take a poncho to wear while walking - not ideal in all situations but good for those brief Sierra Nevada afternoon showers, or ongoing misting rain without wind gusts. I also have a pack cover, but it isn't just a pack cover - it can be a water bucket, gear hammock (to hang alongside my camping hammock), ground cloth (use it to stand on under the hammock when getting out in sock feet), and a firewood carrier (can put a lot of sticks in a 3x5' square of silnylon). Not bad for a couple ounces of material, cord and cord lock. I made it very large so any of my packs would work with it, and it fits over the pad down the back of the pack (if I take one). I mainly use it for a pack cover when I expect night showers and I'm hanging the pack on the end of the hammock.

I don't use either one because they keep neither my pack straps nor my back dry. A poncho over everything works best for me, plus it has other uses.

A pack liner, commonly a heavy-duty trash compactor bag, is much more likely to keep your pack contents dry than most pack covers, in my experience. It also makes it easier to segregate your already-wet items, like a tent or tarp, from your must-stay-dry items like your sleeping bag and clothes.

Living in the PNW, my approach tends to be belt-and-braces, with multiple layers and modes of rain protection.

Normal stuff sacks are not waterproof because the closure isn't. Usually stuffsack seams aren't sealed, either. Test them in the bathtub and you'll see what I mean. That's why I use dry bags for my sleeping bag and insulating clothing.

Dry bags normally are waterproof, but test them at home right after you buy them (turn inside out and fill with water, or immerse in the bathtub)--some are not so waterproof as others. If any water comes through, return them and complain! That tactic seems to have worked for the Sea-to-Summit Ultra-Sil dry bags. Early versions had serious leakage problems. However, the ones I bought last year (and tested thoroughly before using) are just fine. But I'd never trust my critical insulating gear (wraps and sleeping bag) to anything without testing first. Plastic bags will work, but I've found that ziplock bags containing squishy items (such as socks) often pop open under pressure (as when stuffed into small spaces in the pack).

Pack liners are waterproof if fastened with a waterproof closure--the "candy cane" closure works--and therefore keep your critical pack contents dry even in cases of immersion. They do not keep the outside of the pack and outside pocket contents dry, but to most of us that doesn't matter. Check the liner daily for pinholes and tears (duct tape!) and replace if needed. Watch out for perfumed trash compactor bags--an increasing number have this problem (Walmart and Albertson's house brand are two). Not a good idea in bear country, even if you can stand the stench! Between not being able to find unscented trash compactor bags and the propensity of anything pushed down inside a plastic bag to pop right back out at you, I've given up the trash compactor bag pack liner in favor of dry bags for my sleeping bag and insulating clothing. I don't care if my cooking pot gets wet, and my food and miscellaneous stuff is all in plastic.

Pack covers keep the outside front, top, bottom and sides of your pack and the outside pocket contents dry, but they are useless in cases of immersion (people do occasionally fall when fording creeks; I have!). They also don't keep heavy rain from running off your shoulders and down your back into the part of the pack against your back. I use one (a cuben one from ZPacks, 1 ounce) so that the outside of my pack isn't too soggy to take into the tent (it's part of my pillow). It also keeps the pack clean when I put it down.

Ponchos are fine if the wind isn't blowing. Unfortunately, in the Rockies especially, rain in the high mountains is usually accompanied by high winds. There's also the problem of keeping the pack dry when you're not wearing it, or keeping you dry if you take off the poncho to cover the pack. Again, the poncho is useless in keeping your pack contents dry if you fall while fording a stream.

I'd never trust either a garment (poncho, Packa), normal stuff sack or a pack cover to keep my critical insulating gear dry. Only a waterproof pack liner, plastic bag or dry bag will do that.

As Aimless says, having more than one layer of protection is a good idea! At least one of those layers should hold up to at least five minutes of immersion. If my dry bag hadn't kept my sleeping bag and insulating clothing dry when I slipped and fell during a difficult stream ford, I'd have been in deep doo-doo. I was two days' hike from the trailhead in an isolated area and the weather was cold (30's) and wet. When I got out of the creek and emptied out my pack, I found several inches of water in the bottom. Fortunately the dry bag containing my sleeping bag did its job--good thing, because it was in the bottom of the pack with the water! With constant rain (which lasted for two days afterwards) there would have been no opportunity to dry anything out.

Multiple layers is what I follow as well. Contractor trash bag for a pack liner with an extra one incase of heavy rains to use as a pack cover. I always strap my rain jacket to the top of my pack, in a quik shower it prevents any water from getting in, plus its bright orange like hunters orange so hiking during hunting season is a little safer.

so poking around, i've found a couple options

Granite Gear eVent

Sea-to-summit
outdoor research

currently leaning towards the granite gear eVent because i wont have to worry about getting all the air out of the bag the hard way. although i'm thinking i should be packing my quilt in a seperate dry sac than the rest of my pack contents. is this thinking correct?

I will try to be a little shorter with this, but I keep all my pack contents in water proof bags. I do this because I do not pick and choose what I would allow to get wet.I do not want any of my gear to get wet, so it all gets protected from the "wet". I have an assortment of three different colors and sizes and when everything is in the water proof bags, I know what's what because of the color and the size of the bag. I keep every thing in my pack in "systems". Cook system, sleep system, food system, first aid and so on. I think every one here gets the picture. That makes it a little easier to stay organized and also where to go in the pack to get a specific item. It just works better that way for me and I am sure that this system is not for every one, but it works very well for me. Been doing this for years and yes the bags seem a lot more water proof today than they did a few years ago...sabre11004...

dry sacs are nice for sure, but its still nice to have something even as simple as a trash bag or an old rain shell to put over your pack, hard rain will fill your pack with water, contents may be safe with dry sacs but a soaked heavy pack is a bit annoying and can be avoided at almost no cost with a trash bag. Plus trash bags or even old rain shells can be used as ground cloth to stand on or put down in your vestibule etc.

When I have walked in big-time rain, I went with liner and cover. The cover keeps out most of the rain, and protects the stuff in outside pockets of the pack; the liner gives a second layer of protection to the important stuff. I used trash bags for both.

Waterproof sacks for my critical gear,pack cover for less critical, easily accessible stuff, and mostly because I hate dragging a soaked pack into the tent!
And a pack cover also have many more uses...

I keep my pajamas and sleeping bag in a Ziploc.
Everything is in a trash compactor bag.
I try not to let my backpack get wet because it gets uneedfully heavy. Thus I drape my poncho (1oz, 89¢) around it to minimize that. I also carry an 7oz umbrella which has been great during hail storms.
And then I also have my O2 jacket (in my picture). I wear that the most.

I have to replace my poncho about every 6 days of heavy use. But the price is worth the weight

My poncho is multi use because in the morning I plop everything on it so I can see everything at once and then play tetris-packing.

So my wet-weather gear:
Ziplocs: 1oz
Compactor bag: 2oz
Poncho: 1oz
O2 jacket: 5oz
Umbrella (samsonite): 7oz

Total: 16oz.

-Barry

I use silnylon sacks (water resistant, not proof) for my clothing and sleeping bag. I ensure my *lid* does not admit water from rain, and line my pack with a green garbage bag, which is also used to cover my pack at night if I put the whole thing on a bear hang.

I also use a poncho, an integral designs silponcho, which will cover me, the straps, and the pack.

I have never had problems in lots and lots and lots of rainy trail days. my stuff is always dry.

3 OUNCE WEIGHT PENALTY

If you think about it, the carrying of a 3 ounce silnylon rain cover and a 3 ounce silnylon pack liner is still only a 3 ounce penalty. If all of your stuff sacks are silnylon instead of heavier nylon, the weight savings start to counter the weight penalty.

The single "plastic bag" liner is by far the lightest, but not the most durable except for those who are naturally very careful in how they handle equipment.

For the safety of two levels of protection, I am happy to pay the 3 ounce penalty. However, I have never yet been in a situation bad enough to have needed the backed up rain protection.

Your Mileage May Vary

Rocketman
stuff sacks? I don't have no stinking stuff sacks...
Jim

my pack liner dosent keep my straps dry (havent used it yet) but i plan to use a pack liner too along with the cover.

You could use a poncho as raingear. It will keep both you and your pack dry and will save the weight of a pack cover and pack liner; also can be a minimalist shelter. A poncho is not too good in heavy brush, steep uphill or wind. Or, think about a Gatewood Cape. Shelter and raingear all in one.