seeking advice on water purifiers

Howdy -

I am looking to buy a water purifier soon and am not sure which one is should get. In the past I have stuck to tablets and boiling but think that I should bite the bullet and buy a filter. I was thinking of a UV pen but, I might be getting my water from a muddy source and would like to have a filter to make the water a bit more appealing looking than muddy water.

Anyway, so I was thinking of the Katadyn Hiker, Katadyn Hiker Pro, MSR SweetWater Purifier System, or possibly something else.

Does anyone have any experience with these guys? Any side-by-side comparisons out there?

Also how important is it that the filter removes viruses?

Thanks in advance,

cmp

All of the filters you list will filter bacteria, cysts and floaties out of water. The Sweetwater system adds a chemical to deal with viruses. Whether you need to worry about viruses depends on where you are going; most I've read indicates that the continental US doesn't pose much of a risk of virii; overseas is a different story.

The practical difference between filters is the method used; do you want to scrub a ceramic element, or change a cartridge once in a while? The Katadyn Hiker/Pro have glass fiber/carbon core cartridges, and the MSR filters have a ceramic element that can be field cleaned.

Cool, thanks.

How much of a pain is it to clean a ceramic filter? do they work as well as a glass filter?

-cmp

You are not the first person to ask about water filters, so there are hundreds of posts here about them including all the ones you mentioned. Use the search function, set it for a year or two and you should get more info than you can read in a week.

There are also dozens of websites on water treatment in general to give you a background as to the differences in mechanical filters and purifiers (there is a difference).

I prefer the gravity filters, like the Katadyn Base Camp (0.3 micron), so I don't have to pump. Some people like the tablet purifiers but they leave a bad taste and take 20-30 minutes depending on the temperature (colder temps take longer).

Well, I just bought my first water filter, the Katadyn Hiker Pro you mentioned actually. I've only used it once since I just got it, but I had no complaints. Far better than taking the time and fuel to boil water like I used to have to do. They are pretty much all the same really from what I read while looking around. I'm pretty sure you'll be safe and happy with whichever you happen to go with.

If you're going to be filtering some murkey water though, make sure you've got your maintenance stuff with you. The biggest reason I have just now suddenly got one is because I'm out of Alaska and away from the silt filled glacial and snow melt up there and I was always told filters got clogged a lot up there. Just something I thought I should mention so you don't happen to find out the hard way if you didn't know already. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I love the kat combi. Have a steri pen too for dangerous zones. Light enough even to carry both, really.

I've got a Base Camp and a Hiker....also I've used the Guide.....I love the Base Camp. You don't have to pump. You also aren't pumping anything extra that will get wasted. I just stick the hose in my pot and go do something untill it's full. The Guide is a little heavier than the Hiker, but the strokes per gallon really make up for it......

Take a look at the First Need from General Ecology. REI sells it. It's the only water purifier they sell. Can you guess why? No company has every been able to match the purity of water it provides.

earlylite
http://sectionhiker.com

I don't understand the difference between water purifiers and water treatment systems.

REI sells many, many systems, including purifiers, most or all of which I asssume are effective...

Probably most of the foremost researchers in this field, including Derlet, Rockwell, Zell, Welch, Backer and others, question whetherr water treatment systems or purifiers............. are worthwhile or justified in deep wilderness.

You can verifiy these various opinions and the credentials of these researchers by searching their names on Google accompanied by "wilderness" and/or "water treatment" I'd guess. Sometimes, you have to read their stuff with some care...Whatever, It's all out there on the Web.

Hikes in non-wilderness areas, like much of Appalachian Trail, for example, might face a somewhat different question.

Personally I've consumed a lot of untreated water in these non-wilderness areas over several decades............with no ill effects.......... But there is apparently no telling whether you might actually get hepatitis........To say nothing of more minor troubles.

I've got a PUR filter which I've used somewhat rarely and randomly....and is apparently NOT a purifier..........I think it weighs 11 ounces............I'd guess it's effective, and I know it's a slight pain.......

“Anyway, so I was thinking of the … Katadyn Hiker Pro...

Does anyone have any experience with these guys? Any side-by-side comparisons out there?”

I’m a drink-instantly-turn-brown-water-to-clear type of guy and have grown to love my First Need filter. The Hiker Pro fails miserably at turning green lake water clear—as also some ceramic filters I have tried; not that this is bad; I just have a phobia with drinking brown/green water.

If you want to see if your filter- filters out largish organic molecules try this:
From http://www.generalecology.com/first%20need%20original%20instructions.pdf

“A simple test to assure that the canister has not been damaged internally, either during use, transport or backwash is to:
1. Add a couple drops (no more) of ordinary red, green or blue food coloring to a glass of water
2. Pump this solution through the canister.
3. The filtered water should be colorless.
If the filtered water is still colored, even faintly, the internal canister matrix has most likely been damaged and THE CANISTER SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON UNDER THIS CONDITION AND MUST BE REPLACED.”

There’s a lot of good stuff at their Q&A: http://www.generalecology.com/qa.htm
-Barry

Unfortunately, only filter cartridges containing activated charcoal will remove food coloring from water. The charcoal is only there to remove odors and minor large-molecule organic contaminates, not disease organisms. A filter can work perfectly in removing bacteria and protozoa (but not viruses) and still not remove color from water. The molecules that provide color to water, such as chlorophyll, humic and fulvic acids and dead coyote juice are too small to be removed by a filter. They will, however, be adsorbed by activated charcoal - up to a point.

So, I would not reject a filter cartridge that allowed food coloring through unless it contained activated charcoal. In fact, most filters could be made a bit lighter if the charcoal were omitted. I suspect that it is there more for the tender sensitivities of us civilized types than to provide safe water. Actually, green or tea-colored smelly water is good for you; it has vitamins and minerals in it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

“So, I would not reject a filter cartridge that allowed food coloring through unless it contained activated charcoal.”

That is a very good point. The hiker pro has activated charcoal http://www.rei.com/product/720265 . But it lets color go through. Thus you can’t tell if it’s broke. Thus I was disappointed. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And it was lighter than my First Need--- but much much harder to manage.

So I wonder about some manufacturer’s (even Brita) claim of ‘activated charcoal’ is just marketing hoax because the proof is in the pudding.

-Barry

I'd be willing to bet, but haven't proved by actually doing it, that it's the activated charcoal/zeolite or other organic bonder (it isn't all charocoal) and I could make something with fish tank zeolite or the like that will remove the color, but not have small enough pore size to stop the pathogens. For this reason I actually personally thing the color stuff is dangerous marketing claptrap. color is removed by reaction, not filtering. while pika might not discount a cartridge because it doesn't react with food colouring, I wouldn't believe a cartridge actually works just because the cartridge does react with food coloring.

“I'd be willing to bet, but haven't proved by actually doing it, that it's the activated charcoal/zeolite or other organic bonder (it isn't all charocoal) and I could make something with fish tank zeolite or the like that will remove the color, but not have small enough pore size to stop the pathogens.”

That would be interesting to see. The Hiker Pro should at least have that quality (to remove color). Maybe they need to experiment more with their activated charcoal.
Likewise, if the First Need did let color through, I would not use it. If it doesn’t, I would trust it because the engineers at First Need have been doing this for 25+ years. I wholly trust their food coloring method. I do not trust the food-coloring method with any other filter (yet). This makes testing the filter integrity so simple.
First Need has been independently certified by several sources. http://www.generalecology.com/testcenter.htm
A typical conclusion is as follows:

“CONCLUSION
It appears that this technology is capable of meeting the test requirements as a microbiological water purifier as defined by the EPA(4) without the use of chemical disinfection. The small size, lack of external power requirements, and high degree of portability of these units make them suitable for recreational enthusiasts who obtain their drinking supply from rivers, lakes, or other untreated water.”

http://www.generalecology.com/wemedmag.pdf

Also no lawsuits is a good sign after 25 years. First Need guarantees:
“A simple test to assure that the canister has not been damaged internally, either during use, transport or backwash is to:
1. Add a couple drops (no more) of ordinary red, green or blue food coloring to a glass of water
2. Pump this solution through the canister.
3. The filtered water should be colorless.
If the filtered water is still colored, even faintly, the internal canister matrix has most likely been damaged and THE CANISTER SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON UNDER THIS CONDITION AND MUST BE REPLACED.”

-Barry

Depending on where you hike this may be something you ought not to worry about.

If you hike in areas that are practically suburban, here is a pretty significant survey that suggests water treatment is not effective

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0689/is_n5_v36/ai_13928819/pg_3?tag=artBody;col1

And here's one that seems to contradict this
informationh

<a href="ttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14769284" target="_blank">ttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14769284</a>

It sounds like a toss-up......

If you are hiking in real wilderness.... the concern seems much overblown.......

Hands down the best water filter out there is the kind your hiking partner carries! Muhaha -



Filter your floaties with a bandana and nuke it with some bleach/ aqua mira.


I did envy the steri pen users along the PCT though. Most times I came to the next water source out of water and they always were able to drink sooner then I.


Filters = too heavy for my likings. Although I will admit I have used other peoples filters in the backcountry. I never ask, I never depend on it. But If I am stuck at some muddy hole with no more water for 20 miles I'll use theirs if they offer.