SPOT - A New PLB Solution?

SPOT

It's a 7 oz $150 device that can summon help via the Globalstar satellite network. You need a $100/year service plan to use it, although a lower-cost monthly plan may exist. Device uses GPS to determine coordinates which are sent via satellite to the company's servers in Milpitas, CA. Users can view your location continuously or only when you press a button on the device. A 911 button summons emergency help to your location. Another button sends a preset message to up to 5 people (like "hey, I pressed this button so I'm OK"). Still another button sends a similar message that asks those people for non-emergency assistance.

Sounds neat - a cheap PLB! But there are some potential caveats. One is that it uses the balky Globalstar network. Failures have left the system with less than 100% coverage. Satellite communication also requires a relatively unblocked line-of-sight between the transmitter and receiver. And GPS is notoriously unreliable under heavy tree cover or in canyons.

Another is that if you let your service plan lapse, pressing 911 will only exercise your finger. This may soon change, as the company may be forced to respond under the same laws that govern cell phones.

Then there's the $100/year charge itself. If you buy a PLB, you pay your $500 and that's it. No yearly fees. If you plan on using a device like this for more than 4 years and use it only for emergency situations, you're better off buying a true PLB.

I don't know why the company didn't put a keyboard on the thing. It would definitely be worth the $100/year cost if I could send short text messages. One example is when I turned my ankle and shacked up for 2 days until the swelling went down. If I could have sent a "Will not need pickup til Tuesday" message, I could have saved a friend a few days of worry. If this was sold as primarily a satellite texting device instead of an emergency aid device, a lot of the shortcomings could be overlooked.

The bottom line is that I might buy one for my family's peace-of-mind. If someone monitored my position daily, they could sound the alarm if I remain in the same place for more than a day. At the very least it would give search parties a place to start, even if I failed to send a 911. Hopefully the company will address some of the product's shortcomings as this product matures.

Sounds pretty cool!
The $100 a year charge seems a bit much though.
Hopefully they pass that law that even if a cellphone (or PLB) doesn't have a contract 911 will still work. That would really cut down costs.

Hi NiytOwl,

My husband and I finally narrowed down the choices of a PLB to the same one - the Spot Messenger. Regarding the lack of a keyboard - I agree completely! However, if I've understood it correctly, one feature of the Spot Messenger is that you can use a variety of combination taps to send a specific, pre-determined message. For instance, tapping "OK, OK, Help, OK" could mean "I am fine, but running one day late". The combination of taps just has to be agreed upon in advance by the sender and the home unit receiving. And if I'm really running a day late, that pre-determined message combined with the daily GPS check in showing my progress less than what my trip itinerary shows, should give the home unit a good sense of my whereabouts and timing.

You make a good point about the signal (unreliability). So just have to hope one of us doesn't break a leg in dense tree cover <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We figured we'd buy it and activate it this spring at the start of backpacking season for us. In our case, its really only for use when one of us is backpacking alone and off trail or in very remote areas. I'm also pleased about the weight - much less than just a few years ago for an emergency locator.

Since we do plan on getting it, I'll report back in on how it works. Carol

Sounds great Carol! Since you appear ready to buy, there's a brand new SPOT unit I'm watching over on Ebay currently going for $100 + shipping (seller got two for Christmas). Also there's a PLB with GPS going for $300. Neither have any bids as of the time of this post. I'm still trying to decide between the two systems, so I'm just seeing how the bidding goes on those items.

I look forward to your review.

Personally I'm not too keen on the subscription thing - while it is kinda nice that the SPOT can report back even when it's *not* an emergency - just to keep people aware of your progress if they're interested - it's a feature I don't think I really need.

I've got my eye on the MicroFix units - since they and the technology they use seem to be pretty much worldwide - I may eventually decide I'm wealthy and buy something like the Microfix 406 Nice part, no subscription, but no "trail reports" back to loved ones or anything like that - basically you buy it hoping to never activate it

I'd rather have a Sat Phone if I just want to keep in touch with anyone.

I'd trust a PLB before a Spot, but that's just my opinion. What I'd like to know is why PLBs are so darned expensive. The Spot uses similar technology and is far cheaper.

Actually, I thought they were quite cheap for what's essentially a satellite phone without audio. What I'd really like to know is why PLBs are so expensive. They can't be any more complicated than SPOT. If PLBs were $150 I would have owned one last year. Is there some kind of restriction on making PLBs that don't last for 24 hours while floating in raging seas? If it was just water resistant and ran for 8 hours on 4 AA lithium batteries, would that lower the price?

That's what I meant-why are PLBs so expensive? I'm going to make that a bit more clear.

My guess is that Spot may be cheaper because they are using the cel phone business model-cheap devices, but monthly fees to generate income. PLBs are a one time sale.

Even Sat Phone plans are coming down in price, so in a few years, we may all have one of them-look at Globalstar's website.

Or the game console model - the device is worthless (can't even use the 911 feature) without purchasing a service plan. Most likely it's an economy of scale thing. The company seems to think this will sell to a larger audience than PLBs, whose capability they downplay in their advertising (see the TV ads with Les Stroud on the SPOT site). If sales continue to climb, maybe the PLB manufacturers will take note and drop their prices.

After reading the online PDF manual it appears SPOT was intended to have a text messaging capability, so maybe it's not too farfetched to hope for that feature on the next model. IMO, that would sell the device (text from anywhere) better than the location feature. Heck, I pay $120/year for text messaging on my phone. What would be even better would be a tri-band version of SPOT, with the addition of the 406 Mhz Cospas-Sarsat and 121.5 Mhz homing signals. That would make it a true PLB.

" [color:"blue"]if I've understood it correctly, one feature of the Spot Messenger is that you can use a variety of combination taps to send a specific, pre-determined message. For instance, tapping "OK, OK, Help, OK" could mean "I am fine, but running one day late"[/color]"

I've seen this "make a code table for it" idea before, but not to my knowledge from anyone that actually owns a unit. I'm going on a backpack next week with a friend that actually does own one, and when I put this to him (suggesting we work out a code table in advance), he didn't think it was practical, apparantly there's about a 15-minute delay between when you can send signals, the unit resends a button press multiple times to ensure delivery. So if you were willing to spread your button presses out over a lo-o-ong period maybe you could work out a code, but at least from what he told me this doesn't seem practical.

Would be nice, and of course, even nicer if the other poster is right that at some point they'll come out with a text messaging solution. Ideal for me would be a bluetooth keyboard that I could dual use with both SPOT and my smartphone ... !
Or a version of SPOT that has a slide-out keyboard like some cell phones do, or, really whatever allowed for sending some actual details.

<< apparently there's about a 15-minute delay between when you can send signals >>

Brian, thanks for that real world information. I relayed it to my husband (he wants the Spot Messenger for his birthday) and he is chewing it over. I suspect he will still ask for it. His initial response was keep the code table limited to 3 taps (45 minutes) which could be sent easily over dinner and later while staring at the stars. Also, it seems to make sense to limit how many codes to pre-plan, maybe 1 - 3 maximum and not try to make the Spot Messenger into a text messenger, which it isn't.

I'm with you on the bluetooth keyboard that I could dual use with both SPOT and my smartphone ... ! Carol

I just came back from a trip where SPOT was used by my hiking friend. He set it up in advance so that the "I'm OK" messages generated automatic email to my wife, and his wife ... sounds like a list of multiple people can get that message. It gives the time the message was sent in GMT (Greenwich time) and the decimal latitude & longitude, and a link to google maps of the location, plus it gives the name of the nearest town and distance away from that.

He also left it turned on, hanging on his pack strap and it periodically reported location automatically that way. One person at home can get that auto-location plot, and I believe put that up on google earth to see exactly where the unit has been (so long as it's on and has a clear view of the sky).

FWIW anyway.

Some not-so-good results from SPOT--it doesn't seem to work in the forest:

Report on Backpackgeartest.org

As reported in the BackpackingLight forum (this section can be accessed for free)

Nope, it doesn't work well in the forest. They actually tell you that on the findmespot website if you read between the lines. They say, "clear view of the sky", which translates into, "doesn't work in buildings, caves, under heavy forest canopy, or in steep-sided canyons." The problem is that it uses microwaves to communicate with the satellites. Microwaves are quickly absorbed by most materials (hence microwave ovens), so you have to be able to see the sky - the more sky the better. I would bet that SPOT also has trouble in extremely wet weather because of this (like DirecTV reception - Rain=Freezing/Snow). Essentially you take all the problems that GPS devices have obtaining a fix, then compound them with the problems that satellite phones have with maintaining a connection and you have all the problems that SPOT faces.

The more I hear and read about this unit, the more I'm convinced that it is primarily a fair weather tracker/messager. The emergency feature isn't reliable enough to sell the unit on that ability alone.

If you plan to buy it as a "peace of mind" device for your loved ones it's probably worth the expense. If you plan to buy it primarily as a "save my butt" device - get a real PLB instead. I'm going to wait until SPOT II (or whatever they're going to call it) comes out with all the features that should have been on this unit (two-way messaging, message confirmation, real PLB).

Once age makes me start acting like the individual in this link below, I will probably invest in the lightest, cheapest and best range device available.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parknews/upload/First%20time%20use%20of%20PLB%2007.07.pdf

http://www.backpacker.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=Print;f=832107219;t=9991098278 there is some more info at this site my personal feeling is that the plb is the way to go it uses a proven sar system and the price over 5 years is the same

Thanks for that link. I was intrigued by the Field Tracker 2000 that was mentioned, but that's turning into a wash. Aside from the $990 price, the thing looks big and heavy.

Looks like a PLB is the only personal safety net that I can trust. Now it's just a matter of finding the smallest and lightest.

There's a big review that I took part in on backpackinglight.com this week as well:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/spot_satellite_personal_tracker.html

Bottom line: it is indeed not to be counted on for emergency use; I found it telling that, at the end of the review when the four of us who worked on the review were offered the chance to keep a Spot, none of us wanted it.

There are some people who are fine with its limitations, and those seem mainly to be folks who want a way to let friends and family know they're OK on a trip, but where the message not getting through won't be a problem. It will work better in open areas with no trees and no significant blockage from terrain, and if it's mounted on top of your pack (not in a pocket or on a belt).

I just received one as a graduation gift, and used it for 7 days on the Long Trail in VT. I only used it to send "okay" messages, but it did work as advertised. Only times that it had trouble was under dense forest cover, where a GPS would have trouble tracking as well. It would take at most 20 minutes to send a message.

I don't know if it is a good replacement for a PLB, but it does have the added benefit of being able to tell your loved ones that you are okay. The peace of mind for my mother and girlfriend is worth it. I would recommend it to a friend.

I have been using one for about 6 months and I agree it works as advertised. I also use it in the tracking mode at times and seems to work best tied to the top of my pack. I usually do that when I'm heading back to the car. Anyway, it provides a little peace of mind for my wife.

Don

These pay services are a bad idea, soon they could be required.

My husband and I decided to invest in a SPOT tracker to comfort our parents while we're out and I have mixed feelings about its ability.

We were able to send several "OK" messages as long as we were standing in one place and there was a VERY thin canopy above us. The tracking function is very disappointing, we hiked three miles along a large stream and wasn't able to get one track marked. And being near a stream I would have thought that the canopy would have been open enough to get some signal out but nothing.

Because we were able to get the "OK" messages out we'll probably continue to use it to keep family feeling more at ease otherwise I'm really not sure that I would recommend it to anyone.

One thing that really annoys me about it is that there is no way to know if you actually got a message out unless you watch the dang thing without blinking for the 30 minutes it tries to send a message. It would be nice if the light changed color or something when a message is sent rather than just staying solid for a few seconds. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

The inability of SPOT to penetrate canopy is partly due to its extremely anemic antenna. Take a look at the antenna that Globalstar phones have - even with that they still recommend that you be in a clear area before trying to use it. The other reason it has so much trouble is because the satellites are seldom directly overhead. They rise above the horizon, peak, then drop back to the horizon. The lower the satellite is on the horizon, the more stuff the signal has to go through. Unless you have the good luck to hit a satellite when it's almost overhead, your signal will be too weak to be received.



Your SPOT cannot know if it successfully sent the message. It is a simplex tracking device, meaning that it can send data to the satellite but cannot receive anything.

If confirmation is what you need, Globalstar is currently offering really cheap unlimited satellite service - $40/month this year and $20/month for 2009 and 2010. You have to buy a phone, which isn't particularly cheap, and the service is far from reliable due to their broken satellite constellation. But if you can patiently wait 15 minutes for a 20-minute availability window, you can talk to and/or send email to your family. Buy the data cable and you can use a PDA to also upload pictures to your favorite photo site.

Sounds like the SPOT uses a patch antenna, which is simply a square of metal. Try getting something that uses a helix antenna. My GPS that had a patch antenna got NO reception under trees. However my newer model, Garmin 76csx, has a patch antenna and works much better.

I'll repeat, the cheaper GPS models, under $250, are unreliable under tree cover. My 76csx works great under North American tree cover. I have not tried in in a tropical jungle, which typically is a bit more dense.

I got a SPOT for father's day. Love it. As long as you have a clear view of the sky, SPOT will get the message out. I set up to send text messages and email to my loved ones. They all like it. I just recently went on a solo trip where I ended up bushwhacking. I had the tracking mode enabled. When I got home I saw exactly where I was and I knew that if I had gotten into trouble the SAR folks would've found me very quickly - whether or not I was able to push the 911 button. My wife was watching my progress the whole time, even though she new nothing of the area.

It is true that canopy will block tracking and OK messages. I'm not sure about HELP. I'll have to check the manual again, but I believe that HELP and 911 messages will be sent whether or not SPOT is able to get a GPS fix - unlike Track and OK.

It is very easy on batteries. I'm waiting for it to use up the first set - hard for me to get used to the idea that 2 Lithium AA's can go that far.

The unit definitely works better if you mount it face up on the top of your pack - not hard to do.

I turn the unit off when switching from Track to OK - never had any problem with it that way. When sending an OK message the unit will blink both LEDs green if it got a GPS fix and sent a message - easy enough. I haven't tried the HELP feature yet - I'd have to turn off or warn the loved ones first so that they don't start calling.

I don't know if plunking down $100 bucks for the service will be the best deal long-term, but for this year it seems like a winner.

Those who are following Karl Meltzer's record attempt for a supported AT thru-hike can only be underwhelmed by the performance of the SPOT satellite messenger system he has chosen.

Of the two his team has, both have been confirmed to work as of this post on his blog: "Ok. So see the little Karl icons off the trail time-stamped from last night? That's me. After I got the guys all lined out with dinner last night, I drove down the fire road about 7 miles to a clearing by a lake. I had both the SPOT units we have with me so that I could test them out. I turned them on and spent about 25 minutes out there, sending signals and trying to get in touch with someone on my cell phone who could tell me if they were working. They worked."

The reason for such an entry? It's 10-minute uplink has proven painfully unreliable, and many people have asked if the SPOTs are turned on or working properly. In the first days of his run, where he averaged 12 hours of movement per day, he is only showing up with 2 or 3 locations out of a potential of 70 or more. SPOT may have sponsored Karl, but it seems they are hurting their reputation more than helping it with this publicity.

While it is true that heavy foliage can prevent such transmissions, the only areas in which Karl is showing up is in places with NO cover at all, such as on Mt. Katahdin, the Kennebec River, and road crossings where he is meeting his team. Karl will face comparable tree cover the entire length of his attempt except in the above-timberline country of New Hampshire's White Mountains and the southern balds.

Only time will tell how Karl does, but it seems likely SPOT will NOT make a good showing.

And what would you know of Karl's whereabouts if he wasn't carry a SPOT?

Since he has a support team and is being written about, a lot.

The point is that the SPOT can't be counted on to provide accurate ongoing tracking. We (several testers here and in Australia) confirmed the same thing in an article we did for backpackinglight earlier this year.

Great idea, very poor execution.

My biggest fear is that it will be relied on when someone is really in trouble. If it's not tracking properly, what about real emergencies?

The novelty will wear off just like all electronic gadgets (believe me, I have my fair share). This means eventually folks who own one of these will not be so excited to pay for and use the tracking feature (especially if it works only a fraction of the time). In my view the only real value of this type of device is in emergencies and from the reports I've read, I could never fully trust the Spot.

With the GPS satellite system, you can receive your location data only. So the SPOT must use something else to transmit your position, and send a HELP call. If it uses the cellphone network, which uses microwaves, which are a higher powered signal, you will be ok if there is a cell tower you can reach. If no cell tower, you are SOL.

I'd be curious as to which networks the SPOT uses for which functions. Clearly it must use the received GPS signals to tell the device where you are, but how does it tell a central location where you are?

SPOT operates on the GPS network only for locating the person and through the commercially owned Globalstar Network for transmitting. The signal power is weak and is similar to the amount of power being received (0.6W). This isn't enough power to get the signal through tree canopies, keep it from bouncing off canyon walls, etc. All the things that plague GPSs in receiving a signal also plague the SPOT when receiving and sending.

The SPOT unit must get a GPS lock before it can tell anyone where the person is. It will send a signal through their satellite system that the person is in trouble, but no one will know where that person is. At least it will get the ball rolling...

The bottom line is that it is unreliable in emergency situations except when the conditions are near perfect for sending and receiving a GPS signal. We all know how reliable that is. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

False.

SPOT does not require a GPS lock for HELP or 911 messages. And given that you were totally wrong about that, I find your assertion on transmit power suspect too.

Also, you consistantly misunderstand the usage model of SPOT, so pay attention this time. Unlike an EPLB, which is only activated during an emergency, SPOT is designed to be used continuously to communicate status and location. There is no pre-emergency communication capability with an EPLB. In a scenario where both the EPLB and SPOT are unable to get a signal out, a SPOT user will have left an electronic "trail" that SAR will start from. Therefore the SPOT system is vastly superior to an EPLB because of the abundance of location information BEFORE there is an emergency.

This in theory is great but from my experience with the SPOT the tracking feature is VERY unreliable. I've always left exact trail head locations and intended itinerary behind before a trip and SPOT hasn't really added much to that at all. On our last trip we walked along a river the entire time which meant pretty thin canopy and yet the SPOT still failed miserably at tracking us. We didn't have any tracks marked and on several miles of trails that doesn't exactly speed up a rescue effort much more than leaving a plan with someone. I personally think its a poor excuse for a tracking system, luckily I haven't had to test the rescue feature!

You are right. If you didn't mount it on top of your pack, and if you didn't find a clear view of the sky once in awhile, then the unit isn't going to do much for you. You would be better off drawing arrows in the dirt. But for those of us who understand and work within it's limitations, SPOT makes our families quite happy.

I'm not a dealer or distributor, and I gain nothing from Globalstar. I'm just a happy user of SPOT.

Sounds like we have a bit of confusion here. Let's see if a little illustration can help.

SPOT does not require GPS to send a 911 or Help call, but without the GPS information it's just a message that the registered user of the device has activated that feature with no location information. This makes it almost useless to emergency personnel - where do you respond?

The second aspect of SPOT that seems to generate a lot of confusion is why it has such a hard time getting messages out through forest canopy or canyons/mountains. It all has to do with the behavior of microwaves and satellites.

For those who have gazed at the sky in the early pre-dawn or post-sunset hours watching satellites, the following is no revelation - satellites are rarely directly overhead. They rise from the horizon, arc across the sky, then drop back to the horizon as they orbit the planet. MOST of the time they are less than 45-degrees above the horizon. Now think about being in a forest - can you see the horizon? How many tree trunks do you think SPOTs microwave signal can make it through and still be strong enough for the satellite to receive? The answer is LESS THAN ONE. One 6-inch tree trunk will block that signal, as will a foot of rock, a mile of clouds - pretty much anything that exists in the line of sight between SPOT and a satellite.

So if the satellites are low on the horizon, SPOT is, well, spotty in it's tracking reports. A satellite has to be pretty much directly overhead with a fairly sparse canopy before enough signal can reach it. Since this happens (at best) only a few times every hour and SPOT has to be transmitting at the same time the satellite is overhead, maybe only one message gets out every 2-3 hours.

I hope that helps clear up these two issues. Now if you're happy with SPOT - if it brings your family peace of mind - great! But if you're relying on it for emergency help you may be gravely disappointed - pun intended. Give that "Ask for Help" button a few pushes while you're in the forest and see if it works - reliably. That will give you an idea of what your situation would be if you pushed the 911 button. Please do it before you have a real emergency.

IMO, relying on SPOT for emergencies is dangerous because it may result in you NOT doing other things, like leaving an itinerary, having check in points, or taking enough emergency supplies.

SPOT use geosynchronous satelites. There's no "waiting" for coverage, there is no "low on the horizon" stuff either. You are either in the coverage area or you aren't.

And as usual, you don't understand the SPOT usage model either. Since a SPOT user has been broadcasting location information often, (perhaps at every rest break or continually if they have TRACKing), when SAR gets the 911 call they'll start from the last broadcast coordinates.

I own a SPOT and I purchased tracking. If I can see a 30* slice of the sky, SPOT gets the message out, everytime. And track-mode is nice because SPOT is sending location messages every 10 minutes automatically.

Ask and I'll email you a kml file for Google Earth that logs my last backpacking trip. It was a perfect mix of canopy and open area. You can see where the track messages didn't get through.

I'll bet you the cost of a real PLB that SPOT does NOT use geosynchronous satellites.

Are we agreed that SPOT uses the Globalstar satellite network for service? If we are, then here it is right from Globalstar's website



SPOT does show you Globalstar's coverage map, but as any cell phone user can tell you, coverage maps and reality are two different things. What the map means is that under ideal conditions, this is the coverage area you can expect. Conditions are seldom ideal.

Now that this is settled, let's talk about the 911 feature again. If you don't buy the extra tracking feature or have it turned off, I stand by my previous assessment of SPOTs utility. Here's what the SPOT website has to say about it:



The part in bold assumes that a message actually gets through, which from my and most other users' experience isn't going to happen if the GPS is unable to obtain a fix. Notice that no mention is made of trying to determine your position from previous fixes? I suppose if your contacts know you have tracking they'll look on the website for your last position, but it doesn't look like SPOT automatically does this.

As I said before - if SPOT works for you, great! But stop spreading misinformation about the system just because you bought one.

I sit corrected about the satelites - you are correct.

You are wrong about HELP and 911 - SPOT will transmit the message even though it can't get a GPS fix. Receiving a GPS signal and transmitting to Globalstar are two different activities.

And you are still totally wrong about the usage model. You keep thinking like a "use only in an emergency" EPLB. If that were SPOTs goal, they would crank the transmit power way up until it burned the canopy away for a clear view of the sky <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But their usage model is lots of communication. So if you turn SPOT off until an emergency - you screwed up.

I'm a happy SPOT user, one of many. You should stop spreading misinformation just because you don't want to buy one and don't understand how it is used.

What part of the word "attempt" is not clear? I can "attempt" to shout from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I can "attempt" to jump to the moon. The truth of the matter is that if the signal path to the sky is so occluded that a GPS fix cannot be made, SPOT's "attempted" transmission to the satellites will not make it either.

You keep referring to the "usage model" for SPOT. The model as you describe it is obviously flawed if SPOT made the tracking service an option that you have to pay an extra annual fee for, then you have to reactivate the function every - I forgot how long each activation lasts? You can't tell me SPOT intended for tracking to be on all the time if they made it an option and then deactivate it when it's left on for a certain period.

Face it. SPOT was a great idea that suffers from a not-so-great implementation. Maybe in a few more years we'll get a unit that does what SPOT fails to deliver on. As SPOT says on it's site:



I'm waiting for one of those products to be what SPOT should have been. Until then I will provide my brand of product feedback on every forum SPOT's development team might read.

I know a lot of people want SPOT to work the way it is intended to. I also know from reading a lot of reviews & commentary that it doesn't work as advertised (qualified reviews such as national level magazine editors).

I guess it is a given that people who spend a lot of money on products like this will defend, and attempt to validate, their purchase feverishly. I myself eagerly look forward to the next generation of "spot" style location devices. The idea of keeping family informed that you are ok surely appeals to a huge number of hikers, but as with all of our gear we want it to be reliable so we can count on it if something does happen.

It is exciting to think of what Spot 2.0 will be like after all the feedback.

But you don't own one, right? I do.

People who don't own one seem to be the naysayers - or people who haven't figured out how to use it.

I own it. I use it. It works.

I own it...it know how to use it ....mount it on the top of my pack blah blah blah...bottom line is if you're in the woods, which I believe is where most people backpack....it doesn't work like it was intended to.

I was one of several testers for backpackinglight. We owned several, we used them extensively throughout the U.S. and Australia, and they did not reliably work.

In real-world testing, messages failed to get out a large percentage of the time. Keeping the unit oriented a specific way helped - but that orientation basically requires keeping the unit in your hand or strapping it to the top of a pack (or decking or thwart) - and even then, not all messages got through.

We also found the UI - that is, the buttons, labeling and LED signaling on the SPOT - potentially confusing (witness this week's story about the hiker accidentally pressing Help, then trying to recall the message, and the troubles SAR had getting information out of SPOT' shotline).

We did a report with extensive data and statistics to back it up - available to subscribers online - and our findings are consistent with those of many other professional organizations.

If it works for you and you're happy with it, enjoy. But don't belittle those who find SPOT a flawed implementation of what should be a really interesting new category - they're in the majority.

Uh, noooooo, the majority likes it. In the very small world you orbit SPOT may not be acceptable, but there is a much, much bigger world out there. Last time I checked, I can buy SPOT online and at all sporting retailers. If SPOT sucked, as you imply, it would disappear quickly.

I must possess an exceptional IQ and amazing sewing skills as I am able to use it successfully in my adventures so far. I must not fit the profile of your average subscriber.

And I should add that my family loves it too. If you don't have loved ones - somebody who cares where you are and how you are doing, then much of the value SPOT adds is diminished.

SPOT will likely follow the technology treadmill of consumer electronics. If you wait for a "better" version, you miss out on the bennefit NOW. When the "better" version comes out - I'll upgrade, just like I do with my cell phone. This isn't a one-time purchase of a peice of hardware, like an ice axe that will last 50yrs. This is a purchase of a piece of consumer electronics that gives you access to a type of communication. I certainly expect this to evolve, but I'm in now. You have to make up your own mind why you aren't in as well.

Wow - you're an insulting guy. Over and over. That's really not necessary here, and not very becoming.

In any case, I see almost no positive reports on the SPOT, and lots of ones about problems. Just because something is selling well for the time being doesn't mean it's a good product, or that a majority are using it successfully.

Again, if you find it useful, that's wonderful - enjoy (see, no insults from this side). But I stand by the assertion that the majority don't.

SPOT did show a new model at the OR show that addresses some of the issues - we'll see how it performs when it makes it into the market.

Bottom line: the segment is an interesting one; a device that reliably communicates one's position, and which can be easily and reliably used in an emergency to request help, is a good thing. All the better if it proactively indicates that contact was made (which the current SPOT doesn't), and allows some customization of messaging. It's a sweet spot between a PLB and a Sat Phone, and definitely a market niche that will grow.

lol


Well if you make bogus assertions - guess what, you get challenged. Boo-hoo.

SPOT will only get better. When will you take advantage of this communication enhancement? I and many, many others are.

OK, Enough with the personal attacks on other members. This is not aimed at any one person, but all of you collectively.

This is a moderated forum, which means the site owner or moderators can delete posts, delete threads or lock them at the discretion of the site owner.

Members are entitled to their opinions of equipment, but personal attacks based solely on the fact that someone's experience with a particular piece of gear differs from yours will not be tolerated.

If you are unwilling to act like a grown-up and approach the evaluation of equipment in a reasoned manner, you are at the wrong place.

Thanks Tom

Thanks, Tom!

Personally, I love facts and opinions being challenged - those discussions here result in learning for everyone. They just don't need to be sullied by derision or insults - a completely separate issue.

(And thanks to the forum software for that "ignore" button - a nice feature.)

Yes thank you Tom for making this a place for intelligent discussion and exchange of ideas.

I would like YOU to pay attention...

SPOT is a sorry excuse for an emergency devise. It is slightly better than a cell phone. It works off of the GPS satellite system only when locking onto a location, which means there is no other backup in SENDING A LOCATION. I did mention in my post that it does send a signal through the GlobalStar system if the 911 button is pushed, but if there is no LOCATION info (i.e. can't lock onto four GPS satellites), the person(s) responding really won't know where the person is.

To say it's better than a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) that uses the Cospas Sarsat Sattelite System is pure ignorance. I would much rather have a PLB in a real emergency than a SPOT. In fact, I would rather have a signal mirror and a loud whistle than the SPOT.

I can assure you that the signal being sent out is in fact 0.6W, similar to the receiving power of a handheld GPS. Look it up.

If you have any questions concerning a PLB, I would be more than happy to enlighten you.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I would be more than interested in hearing about your experiences, especially if you actually had an emergency that the SPOT helped you get out of. I would love to here how it located you under extreme conditions when all else failed. I more especially want to hear how it was the reason your still alive.

My family knows that I go into the backcountry frequently. They know, in general where I am, but they don't have time to constantly check, nor do they really care. However, because I carry an ACR PLB, they know if something does happen, there is a high likely hood (if I can push the button), that I will be found and rescued. That gives them peace of mind more than any other piece of gear I carry.

The thing I'm most concerned about is that people will rely on SPOT when it is so unreliable. I know you love it and think everyone else should too, but if you've read anything on this forum, you will know that we are not stupid. There are many very intelligent folks who want to get past the BS and find out the truth about the gear in question. We don't want something that works half the time. We don't want gear that really doesn't do what it claims. SPOT fits that definition better than any other piece of gear I can think of.

Finally, we want civility. If you can't be civil and an adult, we don't want to hear about it. If you don't agree with what's being said, that's fine, but don't insult our intelligence. If you do, you will find that no one on this forum will listen or care to what you have to say.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Red Mountain Lakes kml (will launch Google Earth).

I went ahead and uploaded a kml file to a newly created Google Pages account. Now I'm worried that the CIA will come knocking on my door (Google's lack of privacy is a little creepy).

The file shows a hike in Idaho. The first mile of the hike is in canopy and on the south-facing side of a hill in the morning - not many track messages got out. And you can see later, by a hot fishing lake, lot of messages because I forgot to turn it off.

If you don't believe that there's no way the Department of Fatherland Security wouldn't maintain an active branch office in Google's basement in Mountain View, you're fooling yourself <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oh well, I suppose the US government will be following my SPOT messages too. I would imagine that Globalstar hands over that information without my knowledge. I suppose I should look up in the sky and wave once in a while.

SPOT is not something a drug trafficker should use to keep tabs on their shipments <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />