New SPOT?

I read a while back that the SPOT locater was changing the unit to update the unit and/or the communications. Is this true or am I just dreaming? Is there a new unit or is it still the same as it has always been? I am really confused because I see reviews which say the unit is barely operational and others who say it works 90% of the time. My impression was that it was working on a cellphone network but now the information says satellite signal. If it works only on a cellphone signal I might as well just use the cellphone.

I don't know about the SPOT being changed, but as far as I've always understood it, it works with the same satellites that GPS's do. My SAR coordinator has one, and he really likes his. And he's not one to compliment a piece of gear if he doesn't think it's up to par. But, no, it's not the same system as cellphones.

I hung on to my wallet when they went on sale, hoping for a new improved generation.

I'll just keep waiting. Been hiking without one for 40 years so I figure I can wait a little longer.

My opinion so far:

1) They're better than nothing.

2) There is room for improvement.

3) The benefit of the present generation does not justify the cost and weight for the situations I find myself in.

4) The unit is aptly named. Its performance is......spotty.

5) I'm confident that the market will drive Spot or another manufacturer to produce a much better product and I'm willing to wait for it.

Thanks. I guess that I will wait also. The thing that I really do not understand is that one reviewer will state that it is missing 90% of the signals and the next review says that it is sending 90%. If I were relatively sure that 90% success were normal I would probably give it more serious consideration. 90% success rate in the city does nothing for me. It has to work where I will need it.

The thing which got me looking at this again is the friend of mine who was lost on the AT (see discussion below). I do not have his low vision problem so I probably am not in quite the same position but I also can get lost.

At this time I also view it as an expensive toy but if I were lost for a few days I am sure that I would wish that I had spent twice the cost of the unit.

Unless they significantly improve the SPOT's performance and reliability--enough to justify the rather stiff annual fee--I'll set my sights on the next generation of PLBs that are sure to come out.

While they don't allow for checking in "okay" (the SPOT's genius feature, IMHO) they're absolutely reliable in most parts of the globe in the critical feature: getting help.

That poor fellow who died after falling last fall in Emigrant Wilderness may have been rescued had he had a PLB instead of a SPOT.

Cheers,

SPOT worked fine. SAR sucked.

Here's the story of what happened. SPOT did exactly what it was supposed to do. The problem was that SAR couldn't do it's job. They knew where he was, and they knew he was in trouble.

SPOT's UI would make a good IQ test. People on the high-end love SPOT and it works great for them. But I think SPOT should accomodate those "other" people too.

I pretty much agree with Rick. The subscription fee for Spot is outrageous. I like the "I'm okay for now" feature, but not at that yearly cost.

I actually (less than an hour and half ago) bit the bullet and ordered an McMurdo Fast Find 210 PLB with GPS. It's a 5.3 oz, $300 major OUCH! However, I'm going on a six-day solo on the Tuscarora in less than two weeks, and everyone is freaking out. Not a friggin' soul cares about the planning I've been doing since 2007, they all just think it's too dangerous. The only folks who understand the need to do this are right here on this forum. I'd probably have gotten away without one on this trip, but I'm planning to do the whole trail this year - that's a lot more solo trips.

Thanks for listening . . .

SPOT operates two systems-the GPS and the actual signaling which does not use the same satellites. To understand how SPOT works, read this detailed test done by an engineer and one the most experienced hikers I know.

If anyone wants to know exactly how the SPOT works, this is the article to read.

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/guide/help-find-me-spot-gear-test.html

Excellent review! Intelligently written. Mirrors my experience exactly. Thanks for posting that review.

Bill knows what he is talking about. He has climbed and hiked all over the world. He goes to the OR show and talks to all the reps about gear. I've never met him in person but know him through Trailspace. Jim Shaw is a friend of Bill's.

Think you (meaning any of us, me included) know a few things? Check out Bill's resume-
http://home.pacbell.net/wstraka/inetbio.htm

If Bill says a piece of gear is good, bad or indifferent, I listen to him. He knows more about GPSRs than a lot of people who make or sell them.

I think one of the factors at play here is that many of us in the hiking community really want this to work. The concept is great but apparently the implantation is not so great. If some rather minor changes were made it appears that it could be a much better unit. The cost is relatively high and the subscription fee is quite high for most of us who would only use the unit a few times a year. If I thought that it were a good value I would probably still pay just for my own and my families peace of mind.

Another disturbing fact here is the the parent company Globalstar looks a little shaky. They have been sued for misrepresenting the condition of their satellites. Their financial statements do not inspire confidence either. The response is via human interaction and I would hate to be lost in the boonies when they went chapter 7. Also I would hate to be dependent on a satellite which may fail.

Yes, but let me play devil's advocate a bit with you. (and understand this is from the perspective of someone who carrys a "real" ACR plb, not a SPOT). I was just having this discussion with someone who flies SAR. We had a plane crash in the northern rockies recently, they had a SPOT and a PLB beacon. Here, the PLB beacon relays throught he CSAR coordination centres which are with the military SAR bases in Vancover and Trenton Ontario - They got SAR to the plane by the SPOT, not the plb, just because the message and coordinates got relayed to the frontline guys sooner.. Go figure.

ANY piece of gear can fail. (I would hazard the MTBF of the spot or my plb is probably shorter than a satellite - and the satellite itself a lot more reliable than a cel tower..) Would I take a SPOT over nothing? probably. Would I depend on either the SPOT or my PLB as a substitute for not being an idiot and being prepared to get my own sorry butt out of anything I get into, no....

Globalstar is a sat phone network. Two sat phone rental sites I checked recently have downgraded using Globalstar. One quit using them completely, the other says "30% reliability" and recommends using Iridium instead.

No idea how that will affect SPOT since the signals are different-data v. voice, but it doesn't sound encouraging.

The sat phone service is a totally different from the SPOT service. A simple Google would've cleared that up before posting FUD on a forum.

Received and registered my McMurdo Fast Find 210. Mom and Dad and Michael and sister and miscellaneous other people are a bit less anxious about my solo hikes now.

But the company lied!!!!! It doesn't weigh 5.3 ounces; it weighs 5.5 ounces. Now I have to leave a sock behind to make up the difference . . .

Awww.. 5.5 ounces.. Muffin....

It's a heck of a lot lighter than my ACR microfix!

The ACR Microfix is listed at 10 ounces. Ouch. Bet you had to leave socks AND underwear at home!

My Microfix weighs in at 10.3 oz. I gave up underwear a long time ago so that doesn't help. The good news is that if I carry the thing my wife lets me go out alone.

Globalstar claims on their website that their tracking system, presumably they mean SPOT, although they are not clear about that, is working. However, this company has a history of problems with various services it has offered and that was my point.

I did not say the SPOT service had the same problems. However, I do think with any product like this, if you are going to buy one, check to make sure the system is fully operational before relying on it.

Tom D
Yeah sure Bill S is a great guy for a real curmudgeon. He's the guy who got me to go to an orienteering meet and told me not to bother with spiked shoes - well I slipped and shattered my leg. but besides that he shows great judgement - like only eating at Burger King.

Anyway Bill does show a lot of common sense. He has picked up on some of the gear I showed him - Like he got a Bibler Eldorado and seam sealed it after examining mine on a winter camping trip. He had to get a Kelty spectra pack and titanium gear after checking out mine.

But do not get into a technical arguement with Bill S unless you are really prepared with in depth research.
Jim S

That is the biggest concern with SPOT. SPOT LLC was setup as a separate company from Globalstar. But that doesn't mean that SPOT will continue when Globalstar slides into bankruptcy never to reemerge. I like the SPOT concept and I will continue to subscribe as there is no competition and the price is acceptable to me. But the economy sucks, and SPOT has been affected like everyone else.

The SPOT concept is a good one, but it presumes you have attentive friends who can respond to your messages. Although it does connect to the GEOS private system and through them to SAR.

According to Bill (who did the test on Trailspace), you are right about the different systems-they are on the same satellites though, although voice requires more bandwidth and power than the digital signal for the SPOT.

Operating a private satellite system is no cheap deal and they don't last forever, which is why Globalstar is having some problems-they have to replace some of the satellites.

One caveat from the GEOS website-if you sign up for their insurance policy for private rescue services, read this first-
PLEASE NOTE This benefit does not apply if:-
a) your situation is caused by circumstances such as a forecast change of weather conditions, which could reasonably have been anticipated at the date you started your trip
b) you have NOT made adequate provision of resources or training or competence needed to complete your planned trip.

Hmm, wonder who gets to decide that?

Jim, So that's the broken leg story. I bet he has a different take on it.

I subscription is too expensive in my opinion for most of us unless you are going to be in a remote location or any place far from help, most of the hiking in my state is close enough to a house that someone can get help in a few hours easy, but that is if your no alone, I don't think most people are going far enough away from help to need such a thing, my store REI has only sold 4 since they have come out, most people freek when they find out its $150 a year even if you only use it once.

I'll say it again - if SPOT was a portable two-way messaging device (a satellite texter) I would buy one and pay the annual fee. Heck, I pay $120 a year for texting on my cellphone. I think a lot of us would buy it - those that have family that worry about us all-alone-out-there-might-get-eaten-by-a-bear-yadda-yadda. It wouldn't have to be 100% reliable, because we'd be able to tell if our messages were getting out or not. If we did need assistance, we could provide a description of the assistance needed, and maybe even contact the appropriate agency to provide it. I've said as much to the people behind SPOT. I don't know if they can deliver such a device, but that's what I'm waiting for. Until then, those ACR PLBs are getting reasonably light AND under $250...that's a SPOT with one year of service.

Yeah, that's an interesting notion. if it were light enough, and cheap enough, I would pay for something that could send and receive sms text messages on satellite. It's not what I use my plb for - but I'd probably take that some places.. that's the "keeping in touch with loved ones" function that's not really "PLB" function.

The insurance caveats sound just like the "pre-existing conditions" for health insurance!

OK - I'll say it again too. There is no other service like SPOT for the money. None.
I use it and love it. And I don't have text/sms service on my cell.

I sure wish that there were other reports on the SPOT. You are the only person I have heard of who thinks the SPOT is great. Most other reports say that it works sometimes and really needs more work before it goes main stream. The idea is great but if it only works sometimes it is not something I want to lug along. I went on a remote trip a few years ago and my wife insisted that I rent a satellite phone. It only worked about 10% of the time so my wife was more upset than if I could not make contact at all. She was home wondering why she had not heard from me for three days.

I was on a project on Santa Rosa Island last year. I took my cell along so I could contact DW. It turned out my cell, which I didn't even think would necessarily be in range of a tower, was more reliable than the sat phone we had, and it turned out to be our main means of communication.

I've been using my SPOT for two years. It's a little sketchy in narrow canyons and under tree cover. On extended trips I check in twice a day, morning and evening. Dayhiking I check in when I reach the trailhead, this lets my wife know where I'm parked and again at lunch.
It may not be perfect, but I like it and my wife appreciates having a little more info on my location.

Don

Yea, I'm sure I'm the only person who likes SPOT.