When your cell phone works...

It really works!

From the Napa Valley Register:


Two 19-year-old teenagers were rescued Wednesday evening from the Oat Hill Mine Trail near Calistoga with the help of the Napa County Search and Rescue team and a California Highway Patrol plane, Napa County Sheriff’s Capt. Leroy Anderson said.

A CHP plane was dispatched shortly after the hikers used a cell phone to call for help at 5:47 p.m. after getting lost off the trail, Anderson said.

The plane spotted the hikers at 6:50 p.m. and a Napa County Search and Rescue team, knowing the hikers’ GPS coordinates, hiked into the area, he said.

Search and Rescue volunteers found the man and the woman at about 9:30 p.m. and led them out of the area, he said. The teenagers, whose hometown is unknown, were not injured.


(I like the fact that they were 19 year old teenagers. Whatever happened to editors?)

Aren't you a teen until you turn twenty? At nineteen, they are in the category of adult (for most purposes) teenagers....

It works when you have a signal. I've been saying that for a few years now.

That's why I programmed my "navigraphic" app to send a "Need Help" email that includes your lat/long. It's why it overlays your position on a weather radar map. Those two features could save your butt, if you have a signal.

I just released the upgrade to my ezInvoice app yesterday so pretty soon I'll have some time to do some more work on that navigraphic app (the weather forecast doesn't work), but since it's free and doesn't weigh anything it's worth bookmarking with your smart phone's web browser now. Better to have it than not.

Based on my status as a dude man guy, I can surmise that sentence was crafted by the department of redundancy department.

p.s. I've hiked that trail and can't envision getting lost up there, but what the hey?

Cheers,

Lots of places, at least out here in the west, that there is no signal. In fact, many times I lose the signal while still in the car driving to the trailhead. And the phone quickly uses up its battery when searching for non-existent signals. You're more apt to get a signal when up on a ridge, but that won't help if the emergency happens down in a canyon. IMHO, I'd never want to rely on a cell phone for any kind of emergency coverage when hiking or backpacking.

I can't think of a trailhead we use that has cell-phone reception.

And yes, if they are 19, they are teenagers. And minors. And you don't have to say it twice or three times.

And minors

One small correction: with a few exceptions like the legal drinking age, 18 is now the age of majority.

It's not really a matter of relying on a cell phone. A smart phone is a multi-purpose toolbox and it can come in handy if you have the rights tools in it. I leave mine off unless I am using it, which is rare, so I don't have any issue with batteries going dead.

If you do break your leg on a ridge where you have a signal it'd be nice to be able to communicate with the world. You can if you have your phone, you can't if you don't. It's that simple.

I understand that there are still great expanses out West where there is no coverage, and probably never will be, but that's not the case when you get east of the Central Rockies. As a general guideline I think it's time to stop promoting the idea that cell phones are not worth the weight.

I don't think it's ready to be promoted to "Essential" yet, but it should be a weighted decision based more on usability in the area you'll be backpacking than just personal preference.

It's not just your life you could save if you have a cell phone with you.

Probably the only places I hike in the Sierra with any kind of reception are in the Tahoe basin and off the Interstate 80 corridor. Anywhere else, nada.

Calistoga, in the wilds of northern Napa Valley, probably offers fine reception when hiking the hills. The Oat Mine Trail starts at the lower left corner of this sat photo and ascends the ridge via an old road as seen in the overlay. It's a nice wintertime trip, just mind the ticks.

Oat Mine Trail

Cheers,

The pathetic irony here is that the kind of person who tries to use a cel phone in the wild to call for help is the kind of person who will need it.

Satphone or PLB and maybe a SPOT are the only reliable gadgets for rescue.

This also highlights the fact that a lot of people on the trails near urban areas do not make a very hardy attempt to self-rescue. They just hit 911 and expect help. They were not hurt. They got off trail, and it was getting dark. In the "old days" we would have just hunkered down until daylight and then found our own way out. Taking a cell phone and expecting a rescue is irresponsible. Every day hiker should have enough gear to survive, if not comfortably, one night out. Weather in Napa CA is not that cold. But I do not know all the details. On the surface, my first reaction is that they should be billed for the rescue.

The first time a PLB was used in the US, it was by a guy from Ohio who was canoeing in upstate NY and got stranded in the snow. He set it off and was rescued. A couple of weeks later, he went back to get his gear and set it off again so he could get another helo ride. The second time he got arrested and fined for misusing it.
http://www.equipped.com/plb_first_use.htm

Another article on the misuse of the PLB, headlined "Yuppie 911"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33470581/ns/us_news-life/

This story highlights the fact that people assume that a ride is just a call away, so why bother to actually prepare properly for where they are going.

It is no surprise that there are selfish people. What always surprises me is that there are so many of them.

There is no such thing as a "reliable" device for rescue. Activating a SPOT of PLB does not mean you'll be rescued. It doesn't even mean you'll be recovered.

If I needed help and had a SPOT, a PLB, and a cell phone with me, and the cell phone got reception, that's what I'd use first and I can't see how that would make me more pathetic than if I'd chosen one of the other devices.

I can certainly see how communicating with rescuers using a cell phone would make their job much easier.

All things considered (including the fact that I do not own a PLB or SPOT), I'd say it would be pathetic if I owned a smart phone and didn't have it with me when it would work and I needed to call for help.

It would certainly be pathetic if those two kids would have died out there. Rescuers are either volunteers or professionals, in either case no one is forcing them to go on rescue missions. They can quit anytime they want too, but as a function of society I think their mission is a noble, worthy, and respectable one.

Unprepared hikers venturing into rough country and getting into deep doo-doo is nothing new. It is just that now it may be that extricating them is a somewhat simpler and straightforward operation. It is often easier and cheaper to send a helo to a known location than to launch several teams into a road area, knowing only that little Johnny is overdue.

The root problem is still the same - ill prepared and inexperienced people taking inappropriate trips. Education is the better answer.

I am not saying they should not have been rescued, just that, to the extent that thier rescue was due to thier being ill prepared, they should be required to at least contribute to the rescue expense. Yes, SAR people are volunteers, but someone pays for the fuel for the airplane. Counties are now under such financial stress, that basic services are being cut. Education is good. But a little nip at the pocketbook may make it more beneficial for the irresponsible to get some education.

Your point is quite logical, and finances are tough for counties right now, but I think you could make a reasonable case for the use of the cell phone actually saving everyone time, money, and discomfort, if not more.

Absent the cell, they would have continued to try to regain the trail, perhaps suffering a fall, twisted ankle, or something similar. By the next day, someone would realize they were missing and would contact authorities. Then would follow a more massive search effort, most likely centering on their automobile parked at he trail head, involving more time and effort, as well as probably expense.

This isn't far fetched. I have participated in at many operations that follow this general script, before cells or even CB radio.

In what way were they not prepared? They were probably not the most expert, but should there be a financial liability for losing a trail? Who decides "preparedness?"

"Sir, i am issuing you a citation for 'failure to do right'" said the ranger grimly.....

BTW, a lot of victims have voluntarily contributed money, as well as a huge amount of good will (often translated into broad based community support) to their SAR group..

Most SAR groups, certainly those here in NW Oregon, are very much against charging for rescue. They claim, and I believe with considerable truth, that if there are charges for rescue, people will delay calling for help until things get critical. By that time, deaths may result.

But think of the merchandising opportunities - "place your rescue request before 5 PM on Sunday and take 20% off! - void on major holiday weekends" or "Have hot tea available for your rescue squad and save $30...."

Yes, I agree that charging, except in egregious circumstances, is a bad idea.

And the poison oak. scratch, itch, scratch...

"It would certainly be pathetic if those two kids would have died out there." For their family and friends, perhaps; for the rest of us, not really. If you care so little about your own safety or the safety of those who come looking for you, volunteers or pros, then it is hard for me to have any sympathy for you.

Accidents do happen, even to the prepared. That is not what I am talking about. I'm talking about people who are totally clueless; the kind of people who wade into deep water when they know they can't swim (happens all the time) or go off on a hike with no map, light, food, water, jacket or other basic supplies and then expect others to save them from their own stupidity with no consequences.

Tom, you didn't get to be you age without making a few stupid mistakes. Has no one ever come to your aid when that happened?

Did Jim tell you that you were stupid when you went backpacking with him and got sick from eating bad food?

Doing something stupid on occasion is pretty universal. Look at General Petraeus. (He might be wishing he'd wandered off and got lost instead right now.)

OM, in some situations staying out the night can cause death. In many others, no, just some discomfort. Weatherwise, it is pretty mild down here in California vs what you have up in Oregon. And as for being lost, how lost? Do you hit 911 after 5 minutes and cannot find the trail? Or do you make an effort to "rescue" yourself. Most people who hit 911 are usually in quite a pickle by the time they do that, but a few are just lazy. It is the lazy ones that should be charged a fine. Many who are rescued are grateful enough to give a donation. (I really think everyone who gets rescued should do that.) And those who really did not need a rescue in the first place should pay a substantional amount. Not so much that it would put them on the street, but an amount like a speeding ticket. I think people SHOULD think twice before calling for a rescue. I have spraind my ankle twice and hobbled out 8 - 10 miles. What if I had just hit 911?

But I do agree with old ranger - with a cell phone being able to communicate, is probably better than hitting the button on SPOT. I would hope that the person answering the 911 call would be able to properly assess the situation. For now, we may have the resources to send out a SAR for every 911 call. There may come a day when this is just not possible.

I would be interested in some solid statistics concerning pre-cell phone and post-cell phone SAR's per man-day trail/wilderness use. Anybody read any such thing?

Bill, What you are missing is that I was with Jim, an experienced winter camper, so getting sick was not that big a deal other than feeling rotten for two days. Plus, I knew exactly where I was, had plenty of food, shelter and warm clothes. I could function, just felt terrible, but was in no danger.

We were prepared. Had the weather been any worse than it was, we could have stayed put for several days, then walked out, even in a storm, if necessary. We had snowshoes, Jim had skis, we had plenty of fuel, etc.

My point is at least make some effort to protect yourself and don't just depend on the kindness of strangers, as Blanche DuBois said (A Streetcare Named Desire, Tennessee Williams).

And yes, I have done a few stupid things. I got hurt once scuba diving at night because I was with a buddy who didn't know exactly where we were and neither did I. I got slammed into a rock face trying to get out in high surf. Fairly minor in the long run, but still, a mistake on my part. I got lost for a short while up above Palm Springs two years ago. It was winter so the trails were covered with snow. But, I had all my gear, a GPS, map and compass and after a bit, figured out where I was and skied back to the tram station, none the worse for the delay.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be rescued, but at least they should make some attempt at self preservation and not rely on outside help completely or assume a gadget will save them.

Have you ever considered a portable charge holder for cell phones?

Sure, we've discussed them a lot here, and generally go over every new product that comes to market. And everyone of them is evaluated on weight vs performance.

Everything we carry is given a great deal of consideration. As for me, I don't carry one. I keep my phone off unless I'm using it, and I only use it for a few minutes when I do.

Tom, I understand what you're saying here, believe me I do. The guy you mentioned who made the first SPOT call for help is a perfect example of someone who really should not be out there, and I don't disagree that he should have been fined and/or made to pay the costs of his second rescue. That's the only way he would learn that SAR is not a free shuttle service.

But the two kids I can be more forgiving with. If they went out the next week and repeated the same mistake I'd have to be less so.

I quit going to the Buffalo River NP on weekends/holidays because it's full of people who either are not prepared, or refuse to listen to canoe outfitters who advised them on what they need. Several trips in a row there turned into rescue missions for me, and after the last few, which all were the result of those people refusing to take heed to good advice, I concluded that I was being taken complete advantage of by these types, and that they would most certainly have survived without me there. It would have been uncomfortable for them, no doubt, but they wouldn't have died.

I rescued a guy and his four year old son who were clinging to a tree in the middle of the river (it had changed course during a recent flood) while his wife and at least 30 members of his church stood on the bank for over 20 minutes doing nothing for them before I got there. It was the largest collection of dolts I've ever seen together. I got his son first, and when I got the kid to the shoreline, not one of them, not even the boy's mother, came to take this frightened kid from my arms. I literally had to scream at them to get them to do anything to help, and not once, but several times. They all just stood there looking as dumb as dead wood. When I was done I sat on the bank for about 5 minutes catching my breath and calming down, and not one came over to thank me.

I did learn that it was their first canoe trip and it was organized by their church. I don't know what, if any, advice they were given before getting into their boat, but I know they didn't make it 100 yards before they tipped their canoe over and got pulled by the current into the tree, and that no one with them was willing to help them.

By far, most of those I've SARd didn't even say "Thanks". Several of them actually demanded I help, and got testy because they didn't get a luxury limo ride back to where they started from.

Some of those rescued will learn a lesson. They will either learn from their mistake and prepare next time, or never go again, or they will never learn and continue to depend on the kindness of others. The latter group need to be made to pay something, somehow, for their shortcomings that cost others.

I don't have the experience that oldranger or Lori have, so I can't say how many are in that latter group. I expect I will run into more of them, and when I do I will help, but I won't spend my leisure time going to where they congregate anymore. I'll let the pros deal with them instead.

I could go on and relate all those stories, but let's suffice it to say that I do understand you.

This reminds me of why I love where I live. I can't imagine anyone expecting to be rescued up here - I'm sure it happens, but a lot more of a rarity.

I have a PLB, but I'd be embarrassed to use it unless it was really bad - and I'd still be embarrased, just more likely alive and embarrased.

Bill - your story below, sounds like they were in shock. Our culture anymore is so "safe" that people freeze - they never learn to deal with shock or emergencies.

I remember when PLBs first came out the common expressions of fear that great hoardes of untrained yuppies (the early ones were expen$ive) plunging into the wilderness because, "Hey, you push the button and get rescued if you screw up!"

To my knowledge this hoarde never appeared, and there are certainly fewer far fewer false alarms than those from EPIRBs.

I suppose there might be the occasional fool who does believe so long as he's got his gizmo he's good to go, but I suspect the lion's share (heh) of folks who are simply unprepared still just...go. Buying a PLB involves a certain amount of forethought about actions and consequences.

Heck, at the time of my last trip on the Oat Mill trail, the trailhead is across the road from a bar and grill. If still the case, what better way to burn off that burger and some IPAs than a nice walk up this pretty trail? Celebrate your hike afterwards? Heck, pre-celebrate!

Even with their propensity towards, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" moments, I don't think many longtime Alaskans head off unprepared. The consequence list is a whole lot bigger and more dramatic than a chilly California night huddled under an oak while scary deer paw the ground from the darkness.

Cheers,

Hi Heather
I'm with you - I'd feel embarassed to ask for rescue. What ever happened to crawling out or dying because you were so stupid that you deserve it? How many climbers have said "I'll get there even if it kills me", and it does, and they do not expect to be rescued.

No somehow this rescue thing seems to be mostly reserved for everyday normal domestic type city dwelling idiots who shouldn't have been doing what they were doing in the first place (Oh my did I say that?). What is this propensity for rescueing everyone???

When I would go into the Sierras for a few weeks I'd tell my mom that it wouldn't be worth looking for me if I'm not back by then because I don't know exactly where I'm going. Now for those involved in SAR this is a horror story - OTOH see my post about people-cams. Some think we would be safer if we were constantly monitored.

Personally I do not carry a cell phone, not camping and not while not camping. I do carry a gps because it does get signals were I go unlike cell phones. I guess they won't go away, and since they broadcast your GPS location anyway, those that carry one should feel extra safe. It is not an essential item.
Jim

I would have to be completely stuck before I'd call for help, but if I ran across someone else who was in trouble I would err on the side of caution without a moments hesitation and call.

Heather, it is still hard for me to imagine a group of that many adults all standing there doing nothing. Could they really have all been in shock? They were just standing on the shoreline, not more than 15-20 feet away from where those two were in the tree.

I still am amazed at their behavior. I just can't imagine doing nothing.

We will go looking for folks who are lost whether they are trying to commit suicide, arrogant old brats who pretend they are impervious to everything and experts in everything and never stay on their itinerary, mentally ill folk, drunk or high folk... it matters not a whit why or how they got into what they are into, they're lost or hurt. If we get there and they say go away, we do. Then the deputies sort it out.

We go look for repeat offenders who don't learn. (There's one.) So? It's training.

So far, most rescued folks we've encountered have been pretty thankful, and families make donations often. Most are not terribly arrogant or stupid. It doesn't take much to cross the thin line between "near miss" and "big mistake." Some nice thank you letters have been read to us at monthly meetings.

On the topic of the cell phone call with the teenagers, this past Thursday during the Buffalo Bills game a fan was eject and told his brothers to meet him at a local bar. He decided to take a short cut through a wooded section near the stadium, he ended up being face down in a small creek. The Local police department pinged his cell phone to find the location of where he was. this "ping" tool could be helpful as well with backpacking or outdoor activities if you have your phone on you.

here is a link to the story [url=http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/erie/bills-fan-found-dead-in-nearby-creek][/url]

Most people carry their phone with them everyday, so the phone is almost like part of the body.

By the time we got done with all the paperwork we could have been searching for two-three days. It takes too much work for too little gain to ping cell phones that way - agencies trying to wrestle information out of cell phone companies is too difficult. We expend our energies and resources in ways best suited to actually finding the subject.

In an urban search, this sort of thing begins to make more sense. Perhaps someday the process of getting such info can be streamlined to take less time and approach being worthwhile.

Creating an app for a phone to send a lat/long to a given address at set intervals should be a very simple thing.

We have to remember, there has been very little done to take advantage of this tool for our purposes or SAR. There is great potential, and it will be put to use, but things have to work there way there. This particular potential is not near as easy to monetize as an app that shoots cartoon birds from a slingshot.

People have their priorities.

Lori has it right - rescue first - moralize and judge later, much later, if at all.

Lori might have included the rescue of criminals. It is startling, at least for the first time, to see your erstwhile victim spread over the hood of a squad car, on his way directly to jail without passing "Go," and without collecting $200.

One thing to point out about the advent of new technologies in the outdoors and into SAR is that this a glass half full/empty situation. There have always been operations that in hindsight were unnecessary squanderings of resources and time. Back in the day, we often looked for and contacted people who were just fine, not needing assistance of any sort, but who had triggered a callout simply because they were overdue. It is a simple decision really - the negatives of a failure to respond to what actually was a serious situation are truly horrendous. If you respond to a non emergency, at worst you have a good training opportunity and perhaps a nice walk in the woods.

Essentially the cell phone and PLB/SEND technology allow for better communication. That has to be good. What is needed is better and more universal training and education of those going outdoors. This is something that a lot of SAR groups emphasize, along with field operations.

Last year two cases of deaths and missing persons were from church groups - the stupid kids who went over Vernal Falls and a guy that got separated from his group up at Yosemite Falls, never to be found. Although well meaning, it is my experience that church groups are a bit clueless about wilderness safety. I wonder if it is thier overzealous belief that all you have to do is "have faith" or it is all "god's will" and become very passive when action is what is needed. I was raised in a church that told us "god helps those who help themselves"!

My own take is that I never rely on a cell phone for emergencies. At least out here in the west, you're generally out of reach of most towers. Even in places like the Columbia River Gorge where there are plenty of towers, you won't have reception while down in a canyon--and most of the trails are down in side canyons! I generally take the phone because I don't want to risk leaving it in the car, but it's turned off the whole time. I don't want to receive any phone calls out there anyway!

The other thing is the "overdue" situation. Except for short dayhikes on frequented trails, I always email an itinerary to my DIL in Seattle before I leave. I always tell her to wait 24-36 hours (depending on destination) after my "due out" time before calling, because I'm always prepared to stay out an extra night or two if necessary--and have sometimes been known to stay out an extra day on purpose. I also allow plenty of time to get back into cell phone range, which may be an hour's drive or more from the trailhead. I know that I can trust her not to panic and call SAR ahead of the time I've given. Anyway, I always have my PLB with me, so if I'm overdue and haven't pushed the button, I'm either delayed due to something other than an emergency or I'm already dead!

Of course if I have one or more of the grandkids with me, I'm a lot more careful to get them home (or more likely to the nearest pizza place, for them a mandatory stop) on time!

Unfortunately, many church groups don't have strict safety standards as the scouting groups do. They may also not have experienced leaders, or enough adults to keep track of the youngsters. Any of those can be a recipe for disaster.

Not about people's priorities. It's about doing what it takes to do the job. That is THE priority.

The app needs to work without data connection.

Search will be based on verifiable info. If we have to guess - does he have his phone? Does the phone have the app? Did he use the app? - forget it. We're looking up his itinerary, interviewing the reporting party, and starting from the point last seen. Law enforcement does not operate on Maybe if it can be helped. Footprints trump 'Maybe we can ping a cell phone'.

Tobi, the issue isn't a charger, it is coverage and reliance. There are parts of Los Angeles (like my apartment in MDR) for example, where Sprint customers can't get a signal and yet people expect their phone to work everywhere. As I said earlier, unless it's a satphone, not going to happen.

btw, what's the difference between God and a doctor? God doesn't think he's a doctor.

I have a Verizon phone and the coverage at my son's house in northern Seattle is basically non-existent. I have to go outside and walk up the nearby hill a quarter mile to make calls.

My cell (verizon) doesn't work in my own house unless I walk down to the end of the driveway, or go into the backyard. I do caryy mine when I backpack though it is in airplane mode to save battery. I don't carry it for communication, as the places i go also do not have coverage. I carry it as my camera, and digital map set, notebook. I have turned on the GPS with the backcountry navigator app just to mark waypoints when I find something intriguing and want to remember the exact spot.

Have just recently (four years) started carrying a cell phone at the behest of my new (five years) wife. Never even wanted one in town before.

Like others, I leave it off most of the time. I turn it on for an hour at six pm each day, but it will collect texts even when turned off. However, I find that many of the places I hike have only occasional, marginal coverage, though texts sometimes get through.

Like others I've started learning to use it as a camera, and sooner or later, I'll get a GPS/map app. It's kind of fun. I'm a photographer, but have never (well ok, once) carried cameras on the trail. But since I like to carry the phone to keep my wife comfortable these days, I'm finding the camera function is a delight.

On the original subject, I don't do well trying to relate to people who are completely lost or stranded, because I have never been. It must be a horrible, panicky, hopeless kind of feeling.

I've gotten off trail a number of times, but I knew generally where I was, knew that I could quite comfortably stay there for a couple of days, and if necessary follow a compass course that would have to hit a road within a few miles (but then I'm in the east and I carry good maps). I've done exactly that three times, and another time, I was able to cross country to pick up the trail. Worst one was when I got caught behind some small lakes and had to do some corkscrewing around without being able to be certain of my turn points (deep woods). That was worrisome because if I missed too badly, I could have been heading off into a pretty large roadless area where all the little lakes looked exactly alike (this was in Algonquin Park). But it worked out ok. I had about a mile of leeway and hit it pretty close to the middle. My problem then was not knowing where I was on the road, so didn't know for sure which way to go. Frustrating, but not dangerous.

best, jcp

I meant that some people's priority is to play Angry Birds, which they will pay for, and not planning for a safe trip, which they will not pay for.

If there were a market for a "SPOT" like app one would have been made long ago. I'm pretty sure the little "Navigraphic" app I made was the very first attempt at that.

The brand new "Locate" app introduced here a few weeks ago is the only other I know of. There was over a year gap between the two. This tells us a lot about the market for this product.



That's impossible. (applies to Satphone, EPIRB, SPOT, cell phone, TV, radio, land line, etc.)

Lori, I am not advocating the ownership of a cell phone as a replacement for knowledge, experience or planning. What I am trying to point out is that it can be a tool used to help save lives. As the OP pointed out, it already has been.

The simple app I describe here would, for example, automatically send OM's lat/long to her DIL every 6 hours. You don't need to "Ping" the phone. The phone is pinging OM's DIL. (I'm using the term "ping" rather loosely here)

If OM is overdue and her DIL calls you and you see the position sent has not changed for a day or two you can assume that the phone has not moved and OM may be nearby. (A ping sent to the phone will tell you no more than that.)

That's all you get from that and nothing more. But it's info you would not have had otherwise and it is valuable info. In this scenario SAR does not have to go through any red tape to request a ping, you received this info with the first call from OMs DYI.

From that you point you can continue to try and call the phone to see if you get a response. If you do, you're probably way ahead with locating your party and bring what's specifically needed for the mission. If not, you still have a good place to start looking for them or their footprints.

--

We should not dismiss the potential. It is very significant, even right now as it stands.

I'll say this with the utmost certainty, it will not be long before lives saved that started with a hiker carrying a cell phone will exceed that of all the other available devices combined.

This will be a result of accessibility, not reliability.

Do folks know about this?

Delorme Inreach for Android

I think this is where the technology is headed.

Cheers,

No matter what i do, my phone dies within ten hours. I am not alone in the crappy smartphone battery department. So such measures are beyond workable for those of us too broke to afford a decent phone. I had to get a portable charger battery so i can review a gps app!

It will all be pointless anyway, if scuttlebutt i hear is true. Search teams will become nothing but recovery teams, since satellite advances will make it possible to zoom in and scan for critters in any terrain and identify them accurately. Not even a need for boots on the ground at that point.

I wouldn't worry much about satellites putting S&R out of bidnez. The Pentagon and the NSA and the CIA keep all the cool ones to themselves and their satellites are Uber expensive. There's also the problem that you have to wait for the orbital path to intersect the area you need to search; this would be just as true for civilian satellites. Geostationary satellites, like those used for weather and communications, are far too high for detailed ground surveillance.

Rather than satellites, I'd expect remote drone tech to be used and pretty soon at that. They're proliferating and prices are dropping. But a substitute for boots on the ground? I'd guess more of a supplement, at least for now.

Cheers,

That's pretty cool. It's sort of a combo of SPOT hardware device with a smart phone app that has additional tools.

The price is still a bit inaccessible, but it's a good start towards integration of the technologies. Satellite connections may come down someday now that we have a few private rocket launchers in business.

It doesn't take a lot of bandwidth to send the predefined messages they offer, but I don't know much about what's available, or the demands on it.

If the phone continues to work. Mine won't. Pretty much out of luck if the battery gets cold or the trip is more than ten hours.

I meant the data connection you get with a cell tower. Most apps on mine do not. The gps app i have does but the rest, forget it.

And of course, the hiker would have to leave info that they are using the app and there will be minimal chance of it. We could not get a reporting party to remember which trailhead they dropped off the group at. But, that will always be a problem regardless. 99% of all search subjects don't believe they will ever need rescue.

FYI, I can't remember the last time the battery went dead on my compass.

Also, my big red parka-easy to spot from a helicopter. And yes, I am serious about both of these points. A map and compass will outlast any device unless you have brought a charger of some sort and having bright clothes or some sort of orange panel will aid anyone looking for you. I used to carry a small flare gun that came in an emergency pouch that may have come from Campmor. It had the flare, a mirror, a few other items.

Gosh, I would imagine that the USFS would have an issue with you lighting of a flare in the Sierra in the summer. Talk about going from bad to worse!

And I am curious about some of the cellphone batttery life mentioned here. I get about three days out of my blackberry, if I leave it on all the time. I never take it backpacking, but if I did, I would only turn it on once or twice a day, perhaps when I might imagine there would be some kind of reception. The battery would last way more than a week at that rate.

But I am interested in these new phones that offer a GPS function that receives the satellite signal separate from cell phone reception. No, that won't help you as a signaling device, but it should allow you to use your phone as a GPS...and if it has a good camera as well, I can imagine taking a phone for the camera and GPS function.

And yeah...this may be derailing the original conversation...but what the heck. I started the thread!

I can turn off everything on the phone but the gps app and the gps feature - put it on airplane mode, dim the screen down to barely visible, and use the app killer many times a day to kill the random junk the phone starts up again when I'm not using the phone (this is darned annoying at work - the phone sits on my desk on the charger, and starts some thing up at random) - and it's dead within a day. Cold weather makes it die faster.

It is a crappy phone, and I know it, but it's what I have to work with right now. Folks who have iPhones have much better battery life than I do.

The GPS app actually works pretty well, though it is a royal pain. Takes too long to manipulate the controls and scroll around the map. If I don't remember to download all the map sections I need, I get a track on a blank screen. It is inaccurate quite a bit but I have found that many GPS units of all kinds can be.

I shudder to think what would happen if I had to rely on this for anything critical.

I still take the GPS even though I am supposed to be reviewing the app, and a nice 1:24000 map to boot.

Finally relented and got a smartypants phone this summer--a RAZR Max Android. The standby time is at least a week, perhaps more. Importantly, advanced battery metering tells me every function's power consumption via time-use graphs. I can control most functions and features individually, presuming I can sift through the options (the menu system is up there with digcams in its complexity). No surprise, the display is the biggest power user.

Because there's no reason to keep it on all the time, I can easily envision it lasting a couple weeks between charges, but since it's not going to function as a phone most places I hike, it stays in the car most trips. Because I carry a solar charger on long trips for my headlamp and ipod, I can just as easily recharge a phone, should I choose to haul one.

Cheers,

The interesting thing is that your cell phone encodes your lat/long into every message string that it pings the tower with - the FBI had that put into every cell phone manufactured since when - geez 1996?. You cannot turn it off and it was designed so the Homeland security department can locate the exact postion of everyone with their cell phones turned on, all of the time.
Jim

Our city's "tri-cities dispatch" can click on an icon on their screens and give a policeman the position of a cell phone within a few feet, inside houses. 911 hangups are always answered with a visit. iPhone's "find my iphone" does it too. That's how I tell were my family is.

Which, of course, doesn't make a d*mn bit of difference if you are out of cell phone range. No tower, no ping. So for hiking in the sierra, this is not a function that functions.

Bill, that app won't work if, as is quite common out here in the west, the last "ping" from my cell phone was while I was still on the road, at least an hour's drive from the trailhead! That's a common situation most places where I backpack. Unless I'm parked in an area where there's a high chance of a car burglary, my cell phone stays in my car.

In low population areas, there is no financial incentive to set up cell phone towers, except close to towns where there are enough subscribers to make it pay. In wilderness areas, of course, cell phone towers, to say nothing of the technology needed to put them there, are illegal.

True. I was hiking in my favorite Texas desert last week and as usual, cell phone is not there. So, I check in with a local ham radio repeater (local means 90+ miles away) with a little radio lighter than my iPhone. I've never not made contact and the folks on the other end know to listen. The radio will do position reporting too but I usually turn that feature off as it gobbles battery.

I completely understand that. There's lots of places it won't work here in the Ozarks too. If you already carry your phone, it's a handy tool to have in it, and it doesn't weigh anything extra. That's the best that can be said for it when it doesn't work.

When it does work, it could help save a life.

So, like I said, you have to weigh carrying one based on how effective it can be for you. If I were hiking where you are I probably wouldn't carry one, I'd carry a better camera instead.

I have taken my cell phone a few times and it was worthless (east side of the Sierra). I could not get anything, yet others could. I was told it was because I had AT&T and they have poor service in rural areas. In this case, does it matter who the carrier is for the "ping" thing? Will a non-AT&T tower pick up my phone? I suspect the reason I do not get service is that AT&T simply does not have an agreement in place with the local carriers. Or that I have a poor plan that limits my roaming capabilities.

I'm not sure, but I would assume that yes, your phone is still being pinged for location, but refused a data connection for your use.

Jim Shaw is probably correct that our government made this a term in the contracts to use those radio frequencies. There are probably regulations for the "911" systems that require and depend on this arrangement, as well as spying capabilities. I'm pretty sure that all cell phones will connect with 911 if a connection is available, no contract required.

If I were hurt, and had a phone with me, I think it would be wise to turn it on regardless of rather I could place a call or not. A ping, as I understand it, requires very little bandwidth to work. Much less than a voice quality connection.

All phones currently are "multi-band" and will work on all systems. If you've had your phone for it's contract period, go to your provider and have it "unlocked". You'll then be able to roam more freely and use simcards of other providers, overseas, etc. If locked, your phone will seek it's own providers systems first, regardless of what else is out there.
A cell tower is only good for about 30 miles radius else a problem called "phase error" creeps in. It's a digital vs. speed of light problem. I ran into this last week in the desert. At some point, no provider will have service due to distance with a digital phone. This is why ham radio works and cell won't...analog vs. digital.

Yup, ATT's rural coverage is poor. Admittedly, they're all "poor" but Verizon is better in California, as I quickly discovered when we switched carriers.

It's in constant flux because they're always adding cell towers (I once worked on permitting for a couple dozen proposed Verizon towers in NW California). Contra the added coverage is increased traffic, which can make connecting difficult even within coverage. It takes bandwidth to watch all those videos!
Verizon coverage map

ATT Coverage map

Cheers,

The Dept. of Homeland Security didn't exist in 1996. Not saying you're wrong about locations being tracked. Just saying DHS was created after 9-11.

I have used my cell phone on peaks in the Uintas. I didn't try on King's Peak, but that is because I learned my lesson on another one. Lesson that I learned: never call your wife while you are sitting on a peak. But, I do carry it in the off chance that I need to call, and I can climb a peak and hope to find service. Better than nothing.

Just today, a climber lost in a whiteout on Mt. Hood sat there posting on Facebook while waiting to be rescued. Article here.

A similar story from three years ago-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...y-services.html
But, these kids were 10 and 12, not grownups on a mountain with a bad rep for killing people.

I thought Hood required climbers to carry one of these, but that law apparently never got passed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Locator_Unit

No, all the mountain rescue groups were against requiring it. In the first place, those primitive locator units used on Mt. Hood are not very accurate. They require triangulation readings, often not possible. More important, the general feeling among the SAR folks is that people are going to get themselves into places they shouldn't be because they know they'll get rescued. Unfortunately this seems to be happening anyway. With the stormy weather the past two days, nobody had any business being up there on the mountain.

Piling on, but ATT just reclaimed it's perennial last place in Consumer Reports' ranking of mobile providers. Yay for them.

In a barely related note, I took the plunge on the Delorme Inreach gizmo during the black Friday frenzy--combining a heavy discount with a rebate deal Delorme has going. It makes the box cheap but even more than SPOT, it's the subscriptions that will bite you in the wallet.

I suspect it will give better coverage than SPOT because of using a larger sat network, but time will tell. The messaging functions are quite powerful and it lets you download Delorme maps to your mobile anywhere you're connected to the sat network (IIUC). Kind of a chunky thing, though--a black plastic half-pound lump.

Cheers,

Wow! Cool

I'm excited to hear how it works for you. I think the message functions are pretty cool features on that device. I also want to hear about the app that comes with it. I'm guessing you use it to view maps and write messages.

I read over the specs very quickly, can you also receive a message with it? That would be really nice.

llamero

I think the text should be in the telecommunications act of 1996, but I could be totally wrong - re the FBI and encoding the lat long of every cell phone sold after 2000. Correct me if I am wrong.

The technology to radio direction find was around for a long time prior to homeland security (like it was used during WWII). Almost as soon as digital microwave was approved for civilian phone use, there was people who wanted to know what people were saying and where they were located, and since those people were the government, they got what they wanted...

Its the higher microwave frequencies that carry less far than your typical analog ham signals that are maybe half or less of the frequency as a cell phone, that gives ham radios their range. [attenuation of radio signals is proportionate to the number of wavelengths from the source - twice the frequency has twice the attenuation] It is true that some digiital microwave radios lack the proper response time to wait for distant signals, however 30 miles is a typical maximum range set into the response expectations of the radios in microwave mode. Analog roaming tends to happen around 900 MHz which is a bit more flexible and far reaching than the 1800 MHz cell phone digital signal.

Jim

I'll share whatever I figure out about both the gizmo and the app. For now, I'm not activating my account because it's "sit on my arse" season and there's little need to have a monthly bill for the ability to trigger rescues to my gear closet.

It's basically a little vessel to pour money into (3 levels of service with two billing schemes for two of them, plus possible overcharges). Speaking of vessels, the specs say the Inreach floats, FWIW.

I tested the PN60-SPOT system two seasons back and it was nice to have custom messaging. You can tell folks "I'm okay but on a different plan due to conditions" rather than just "I'm okay." Of course, tracking will show where you are, but not everybody reads maps equally well. I also like the ability to SOS with added information, such as delineating among being lost, sick, injured, trapped, etc. and especially if the emergency is for another party entirely.

Inreach receives texts but I can't find precise documentation, so won't comment further until I know more. Two-way comms is the biggest functional difference from SPOT, in addition to the offgrid map downloads.

Cheers,