Two Blue Foam Pads Enough?

A few nights ago, I slept down into the mid-high 30's on top of an original Neoair (r-value 2.4) on top of a car window shade in a tent and inside of my REI Radiant sleeping bag (comfort rating of 32), and I was still cold. I've got one of those blue CCF pads, and I was thinking of getting some more of them, but I read they're only rated to an r-value of 1.4. As cold as I sleep, I'm thinking I need to sleep on something rated to around 5ish, but I'd need to stack four of the blue pads under me to get that! I'm not even going to talk about the unacceptable amount of bulk. For the price of four blue pads, I might as well get one of those REI branded self-inflating pads. They weigh 2 1/2 pounds, but us poor folk can't be too choosey. That's not my main concern though; it's price. Does anyone know of something more economical?

I'm open to untraditional ideas. There was a guy online who made is own pad from carpet foam, but it ended up being over nine pounds!

Maybe you could look at the Thermarest Z Lite, rated at R2.4
It packs smaller than the usual Blue Mat and is warmer giving you a combined rating of R4.8 (NeoAir plus Z Lite) good enogh for many down to 32f or so.
Some do choose a similar combo just for a safety margin, in case the inflatable doesn't... (inflate)

If your bag is rated to 32 degrees, that's the temperature it will keep you alive. It doesn't mean you will be toasty warm. You may be focusing on the wrong side of this issue. I'd look at wearing more clothes, or a warmer bag.

That's why I stated the comfort rating. The "EN lower limit" is 19.

Since you already own the neo-air, try stacking a blue ccf pad ON TOP of the neo-air. This is the approach that works for me, I've used it down in the the upper teens and lower twenties.

What I use are thinlight pads from Gossamer Gear. They used to sell 1/4" thick pads, but they still do sell their 1/8" thick pads.

I like having three options of ccf pad thickness (1/8, 1/4, 3/8). Based on expected lowest temp I can mix and match to combine one or more of these with my neo-air. So for example, I might put a 1/8" thinlight below the neo-air and a 1/4" on top, or in really cold conditions a 3/8" on top. Definitely put the ccf pad on top of the inflatable for overall best r-value.

I certainly don't certify this for anyone but me. Too many dynamics to recommend a system for someone else: tent or other shelter type, sleeping bag, what clothing you wear inside the sleeping bag (or quilt), personal metabolism and physical condition, external temp and humidity, ground temp, wind, just where you pitch your tent (local site selection can make a big difference), ... that sort of thing.

I agree with Brian.... add a pad on top of the neo air. Not sure where you are located, but I have heard Walmart sells blue foam pads much cheaper than elsewhere. I would be surprised if the REI trekker is warmer in real use than a neo air with a blue foam pad on top.

Also... be cognizant of where you are setting up your tent. If you set up on cold, hard ground (such as ice or granite) it will suck the warmth out of you. Look for soft ground

Also... eat some high calorie food before bed with a nice warm drink.

If all else fails fill your water bottle up with hot water and put it in the toe box of your sleeping bag (make sure it is well sealed).

wearing a down filled beanie retains an amazing amount of heat- it's been added to my own equipment list

If your bag has a "lower limit" rating of 19*F (that seems awfully low if the "comfort" rating is 32*; the difference between the two is usually about 7-9*F), it was tested using a 1" thick foam pad with an R-value of about 5.0. Also the testing dummy wore a base layer and a knit cap. Some of these EN13537 ratings seem a bit iffy, although they are far superior to the ratings dreamed up by manufacturers' marketing departments.

From my own experience, I'd agree that your problem is the pad. Either you spend the money to get a pad with R value of 5 or above, or you keep adding pads (plus weight and bulk!) to get the total R value up to 5. Do some research and then consider waiting for REI's next 20% off coupon in March, which will help. In the meantime, also watch for sales at other outlets.

Because the air in an inflatable pad takes on the temp of the surrounding air, you want your additional insulation on top of, rather than under, the NeoAir.

I had the same issues some years back with a standard NeoAir (with which I never could get comfortable) and one of those 1/8" thick foam pads from Gossamer Gear. It got down to 18* two nights in a row on a late September trip. I was in my Western Mountaineering Ultralite (comfort rating about 24*F, lower limit about 17*F). I was wearing all my insulating clothing over a vapor barrier suit (my non-breathable rain gear). I also had a nice warm dog curled up against my feet. I was actually sweating on top, but shivering underneath! It was a tiny bit warmer with the foam pad on top of the NeoAir rather than underneath, but with only 1/8" of foam, not enough to do the job.

Another interesting item I found out back then is that if, like me, you want your inflatable pad nice and squishy, underinflating it reduces the R value by about a point.

Good tip, I will definitely try that.

I feel like I should clarify that while I have a CCF pad, my son was using it at the time. The only thing under the NeoAir that night was a car window shade and the tent floor. He also had a car window shade under the CCF pad, and he was cold too.

Thanks BZH. We actually did all those things except for the hot water bottle. How many hours would you say they stay warm?

I had the hood of my bag cinched up where only my mouth and nose were exposed. Would you say the beanie is still worthwhile?

You're right, it really does seem like a big difference, but that's right from the specs on the website.


Thanks for the tip about the coupon! I will definitely save up my purchases even if it's not a pad.


It's good to know I'm not the only one. It seems that you, like me, are a cold sleeper.


Oh, I didn't know that! I wouldn't say it was underinflated per se, but it wasn't super firm either. Another thought that popped into my head is I wonder if it makes any difference that I filled it with my breath rather than dry air?

If you filled it up with hot air from your lungs, it was already squishy a few hours later--at least they always are for us. It's amazing how much volume those things can lose as the air in your pad cools off...

Well since it is inside your bag with you it will never actually get cold. I've only ever used them in the middle of the night/ early morning and they have boosted the warmth nicely for a couple hours until the sun came up.

Similar to the hot water bottle concept- you really need to get into the sleeping bag when you are warmed up. I usually do a intense small hike or run around a bit before I jump into the sleeping bag. The sleeping bag is an insulator- not a heater. YOU have to provide the initial heat. Standing out around a fire is really not a good way to warm up - one side will be warm, the back side will be cold.

When my sleeping pad is insufficient, I can really feel the cold from below and it is quite obvious. By the way, I sleep very cold, and my 5-degree bag is perfect for me at 30 degrees. You may want to borrow a similar rated sleeping bag from a friend, and see if it is the bag, the pad or you.

I owned one of the original neo-air pads for a month. Sold it at half price and thought I got a deal. Actually, they'd be OK in warm climates, I froze with it in the 30's and I live and work in the cold and sleep warm.

One good thing about this time of year--you can try various cheap substitutes in the back yard and see what works, before spending a lot of money! If you don't have or can't borrow a back yard, hopefully you have a nearby state park?

I've done a lot of testing in the back yard, but these days I usually stay busy until after 11:00 or later. By then all I want to do is crawl in bed.

I found the Big Agnes Q-Core Insulated Petite sleeping pad for $77.97 and only weighs 27oz with a 5 R value. I think I got it on campsaver.com. It packs pretty small. I sleep cold as well and roll around a lot.

This can't be stressed enough. I teach this to Scouts again, and again... Jog around the campfire or do jumping jacks, something. It could take a full 5 min but usually doesn't. Once you're warm, dress down and get into the bag. You know; too much clothing will not allow for enough air space and you'll be cold then too. Amazing how little clothing you'll need when you find your right combination of pad(s) and bag. Back yard try-outs are a very good idea.