remove backpack stays?

When is it a good idea (or not a good idea) to remove the stays from my internal frame backpack? I've read that if you remove them, you can't carry as much weight. Clearly, removal would save weight, but what is the downside?

If you are comfortable on long trips without the stays-only you can decide that. I need those stays because my shoulders are so pressure-sensitive that I have to transfer as much weight as possible to my hip belt. Some folks can do without stays and a hip belt, but I'm definitely not one of those--even my day pack has to have a hip belt!

Maybe remove the stays but take them with you to see what happens?

You can still carry the same amount of weight - just not as far or as comfortably. (In fact, it may be so uncomfortable that around the block may be "as far.") The stays are what allows you to transfer the weight to your hips. Since your hips and legs are stronger than your shoulders or arms, they can carry the weight longer and more comfortably.

Now, whether or not that's a problem depends on how heavy your load is. With loads under 20 pounds (total, not "base weight" without food and water), you can get by with a frameless pack that doesn't have stays (or from which the stays have been removed.) Over that, you need more support - how much more depends on how much weight you're carrying. Some can carry 20 pounds in a frameless pack. (You'll need to learn how to pack such a pack if you try this. Otherwise, you end up with a pack that rides like a tired three-year-old on your back.)

Before you remove the stays, look at the rest of the suspension. Is there a framesheet that will still remain in place? If so, you're probably OK up to 25 or 30 pounds; you'll still need to pack carefully. Over 30 pounds, you may end up with an uncomfortable carry if you remove the stays.

Another problem in removing the stays is the size of the pack. If a pack is designed for heavy loads, it will have stays to deal with the anticipated heavy loads. But, that usually means the pack bag will be large, too. Removing the stays because you're carrying a lighter (and usually more compact) load may mean that everything ends up in the bottom half of the pack, and therefore not distributed properly. You may be able to make the pack smaller using compression straps, but it will be difficult to size the pack properly.

So, generally, I would opt for buying the right pack for the load I'm carrying - it will probably be lighter than a too-large pack with the stays removed (it won't have all that extra pack fabric), and it will probably be easier to pack and ride better. But, if the budget considerations made it an attractive option, and you can reinstall them if it doesn't work, I'd say go ahead and try.

Oh what a pack that would turn out to be. Squeaking & squawking in your ears all the time, rides so far back it pulls your shirt up choking you while allowing rain to get all down the back of your neck. Probably bounces at the waist too. The picture of a whining, choking, crying & kicking kid becomes clear.

Then again, if hiking with your significant other, you may get the, "Give [it] here, you're not doing it right!" and not have to carry the pack at all.

Either way, still have to decide on which is best for you.

On the serious side, I could quote the rest of Glenn's post. All good advice. Myself, I'd carry the extra bit of weight for the more comfortable wear.

Thanks for some great answers -- this has been really helpful to this flailing Newbie!

To pile on, there are different stay types and different configurations. Removable metal (aluminum) or carbon fiber stays sometimes are just there to lend shape and stiffness to the back panel. More effective designs also use the stays to mechanically connect the hip belt and shoulder yoke and therefore are critical to overall suspension dynamics. Take it/them out and you have a fancy flour sack.

More sophisticated designs will pair the stay(s) both with a thermoplastic frame sheet and a perimeter frame hoop of aluminum, spring steel, delrin or cf. If a pack uses hoop to connect the yoke, hip wings and load-control straps, the stay can often be removed for lighter loads with no performance penalty.

Shorter version: it depends.

Cheers,

I would look at the rest of the suspension before pulling stays. If you have a hipbelt that is designed to carry a heavy load, then when you remove the stays, the hipbelt is useless. If you can, remove the hipbelt as well. I would also look at the rest of the pack for cutting stuff off. The hipbelt and stays would be the last part I removed.

I removed my stays from my REI Flash 50 and found no difference with my overnight load (17 lbs). I am pretty easy to please though, I have never had a pack I didn't like and have never had a pack problem (75 yrs old 170 lbs, 5'-9")