Bibler Juniper tent - sticky nylon

I posted this over at the Aus bush walking forums and thought I'd post here as well.

I have a Bibler Juniper tent bought in 2003. This is a 3 man 3 season single skin tent made of Toddtex and coated nylon, coated on the inside. I guess it's about 50% Toddtex and 50% nylon. I'm pretty sure the nylon parts of the tent are what's called polyurethane coated nylon. I bought it mainly for car camping and family type trips but it hasn't had a lot of use. It was quite an expensive tent, around $1000 here in Aus.

It hadn't been used for a few years and when I pulled it out the other day the coated nylon parts of the tent were sticky on the inside, quite sticky but nowhere near to the point of sticking together, no smell either. There is no stickiness on the outside of the nylon. I set up the tent and put the hose on it for a while and it didn't leak so the coating seems to be still doing its job. There are no pole sleeves in this tent, just plastic clips to hold the poles in place. The poles became a little sticky where they came in contact with the nylon, some of the coating rubbing off onto the poles. The tent was not stored wet and there is no mildew but it was stored in it's stuff sack for a few years without being pulled out. I now know this is not good practise, particularly in hot/humid Brisbane, Australia. The Toddtex is a great material, and it still looks like the day I bought it.

I'd rather not ditch the tent as I hope to be using it quite a bit from now on. I usually hike solo with my 2003 circa macpac microlight, but my wife has decided to get more involved so I see the Juniper getting a bit more use. The Juniper is a very expensive tent so I'd like to resurrect it if possible. I stored my microlight the same way, in it's stuff sack and it doesn't have this problem, although that tent did get a lot more use. I'll be storing my tents loosely in large drawstring calico bags from now on.

I've seen a few suggestions around, like using talcum powder, but that seems only a short term fix and not all that successful. Another suggestion was to iron it on a coolish setting (with paper in between) to harden the coating and drive out the moisture. I've tried this but it didn't seem to make a lot of difference, maybe I didn't do it for long enough, but the nylon was getting a bit hot and I didn't want to melt it. Another suggestion was to recoat using diluted silicon (UV resistant silicon mixed with mineral turps). One of the spray-on silicons (ATSKO Silicone Water Guard) might also be appropriate, I'm just not sure.

The nylon is not uniformly sticky, some parts are stickier then others. On the parts that are quite sticky if I rub it the coating does rub off. When researching a fix for this problem I came across a lot of cases where the nylon was actually sticking together quite badly, I'm nowhere near that stage but the stickiness definitely needs to be addressed.

I'm thinking the best solution might be to hand wash the tent and try to remove as much of the existing PU coating as possible, then recoat the nylon with something like Mcnett TentSure, probably on the outside, I'm not sure. Would I need to remove the existing PU coating or can TentSure be applied straight over the top of existing stickiness?

The floor of the tent is only very very slightly sticky but the tape seams have started to lift in a few spots, easily fixed I believe.

I'm open to any further suggestions and the best way to go about this. I will post pics if you think it will help. Ditching the tent is a solution but that is very much the last resort. Other then the stickiness the tent is in pristine condition.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I believe you`re dealing with PU (polyurethane) coated nylon on the coated parts of that tent.

the PU coated nylon has a history of getting ``sticky`` when stored for longer periods, especially in heat. Now I`ve visited down under and I know you guys can get some pretty good hot on, so if your tent was stored outside, that might be one factor in the degredation of the materiel.

I`ve had a sticky PU tent in my distant past. cornstarch or baby powder can make it `less sticky` but won`t fix the degreation or make the materiel waterproof again. Most of the advice I`ve seen on the subject says it`s time to say goodbye and buy a new one..

The only consolation I might be able to give you is that silnylon doensn`t degrade like that, so a modern tent from tarptent or six moon designs might not have the problem, and will be cheaper than $1000 AUD...

Maybe the PU coating would break down on this tent after 10 years anyway, but I'm pretty sure the breakdown is because I stored it incorrectly. It was stored inside (in a cupboard in my office) but in its original stuff sack and I left it like that for several years. It should be stored more loosely so the materials can breath, and taken out a couple times a year to air out, if it's not being used.

Note also that the tent is still waterproof, with a fairly substantial garden hose test. I know that's not like a full on rain storm but it's the best I can atm.

Still open to suggestions on the best way to repair. While it is waterproof atm the coating is likely to continue to degrade so I want to address that. The stickiness also attracts the dirt etc and it will become a real mes in the field.

IMHO, once the polyurethane coating goes, that's the end. There's really no way to bring it back. PU coated nylon doesn't have a very long life. As mentioned, a silnylon (silicone impregnated nylon) tent would probably last longer. The silicone can be renewed, too, unlike the polyurethane.

As long as it remains waterproof, you can probably continue to use it as long as you can stand the smell and keep it clean. It may not be ideal….

If it`s still waterproof, I`d try the cornstarch or talc trick and just keep using it.

What about my idea of hand washing the nylon parts with the view to removing all or most of the existing PU coating. Then reapply a new coating, either to the inside or outside, or perhaps both sides. I don't really care about a bit of extra weight. New coating could be diluted silicon or perhaps a spray like Atsko silicon water guard.

Surely something like this is worth a shot? What could I wash it in to remove the PU coating. I could come up with various ways to remove it but I'm asking if anyone has done this before.

Yep, I could also try this, better then ditching the tent.

.. and then I`d probably make sure I store it loosely packed in a cool place for a while - hang it up over a line and see how much it ``dries out``

And I was going to make some smart remark about why are you worried about the tent being waterproof in australia - although I remember some pretty epic horizontal rain in tasmania

I mean, as long as it will keep out spiders and dropbears you should be fine...

Here is some info I found about TentSure (in quotes). Seems like it's doable to me, has anyone had success with this method?

"Typically, you will coat the underside of tent flies, the inside of tent floors and the inside of packs and dry bags.

You will know when it is time to replace factory polyurethane coatings because they tend to develop a foul odor, they may begin peeling or flaking away or you may notice a sticky or gummy feeling. When this happens, it is time to remove the old polyurethane coating by scrubbing with isopropyl alcohol. It is important that you remove the previous coating before applying the new coating of Tent Sure.

Tent Sure will not work on on silicone treated fabrics nor silnylon."

Ha ha .... yes very wet in Tasmania, just like NZ (I do hope you made it there). But you're right about the rest of the country, seems like we're having perpetual droughts followed by massive floods (gets all the regrowth going), followed by devastating bushfires. That has been the pattern the past few years.

And there is nothing that will keep the drop bears away, nothing ....

Maybe crazy talk, but I'd investigate having a new floor sewn in. The Bibler is a great and expensive tent. In the meantime I've never found a resolution to failing urethane nylon, and it's very unpleasant to deal with in the field, even with something as simple as a stuffsack. Maybe a couple hundred bucks will make it better than new?

A though, anyway.