Enlightened Equipment.

Doing a bit of research and I really like these quilts. Any body have much experience with Tim Marshal and his quilts? What other brands should I look at? Thanks in advance for the responses!

I have an EE Revelation X quilt. I am very happy with it. You do have to wait for them to make it, but he beat his promised time. The construction quality is excellent. I had a difficult time finding the cosmetic flaws in the fabric he uses for Rev X. It is really an amazing price for what you get. I chose it over a WM bag that costs twice as much. I think the EE quilt is just as warm, lighter, and more flexible (plus half the cost!).

I posted a review with pictures somewhere. Since I can never figure out how to get pictures up here it is probably over on backpackinglight.com

Also, Tim has started building up a small inventory that he posts on bpl. If he has what you want in stock you won't have to wait. Here's the link: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/...thread_id=66499

Though the forum is currently closed to non-member posting. I am guessing you could email him if you want one of the posted quilts.

Thanks BZH! I have contacted Tim, seems to me the way to go!

It really is the way to go. Honestly I don't see the advantage of a sleeping bag over a quilt except if you sleep somewhere where bugs or critters would be an issue. But in those cases bugs and critters could stil crawl in the top opening of a sleeping bag...so again I don't see any advantage. I challenge anyone to try a quilt and explain how it's not at least equal if not superior to a sleeping bag. The only reason I feel this way is because my quilt is so freakin comfortable and I would never have known except I got a good used quilt for cheap which allowed me to try it out on a trip.

Oh yeah, here's the review of my quilt: http://www.backpacking.net/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=169922#Post169922

Some of us do a lot of tossing and turning at night and can't stand cold drafts down the neck. Give me a sleeping bag with a good draft collar any day! Sleep styles are very individual. Whether to use a quilt or sleeping bag is something that each person has to try and decide for him/her self.

Thanks Oregon Mouse! I too toss and turn, one of the reservations I have.

I have never bought from Tim. However, I have only seen positive comments about his quality and service.

I also toss and turn and was a bit concerned before I ordered a quilt. I found that when I closed the top snap on the EE quilt, the whole pulled in around me, just like a sleeping bag. Plus, if I get to warm, I just have to stick out a leg or an arm, or unbutton the top snap and let the draft in. Try to do that in a half-zip sleeping bag.

It is true though that not everyone who has tried a quilt has loved them. They do tend to be more drafty than a sleeping bag with a draft collar. I think they tend to put more insulation in to compensate, but if you get annoyed by drafts, a quilt probably won't work for you.

I toss, turn and roll in my sleep. Won't do sleeping bags - one incident with a stuck zipper and a full bladder, and a claustrophobic panic attack, was enough to say NEEEVVVVVVVER AGAIN. Quilts rule!

I have a winter bag - it has to truly be winter to get me to use it. And it is roomier than Most 3 season mummy bags.

Most of us (myself included) that toss and turn also do that in beds at home, but manage to keep covered and sleep well enough I have only spent one night in below 40F with my quilt and it worked great. I also prefer to sleep in underwear only so for me the only downside is either sleeping directly on my air matteress or having to bring a sheet of some sort. But for sure "to each his own" and if you don't plan your sleeping gear well and sleep comfortably trips jus aren't as fun. On this subject I have also learned a heavier but more comfortabe mattress is worth the extra weight!

I've had a similar experience at 13000 feet, so I was already lacking o2, I almost never zip my bag up all the way.

What is it like sleeping on the straps?

Thanks everyone for the usefull information.

I purchased one back in March, Revelation X- 6' reg with the 30% overfill for the 30 degree ( 20 oz) and used a silk liner to keep the inside clean.
I used a 8L WP bag to stuff mine in worked perfect.

Tried it out on 2 trips this season.

Wore a light fabric Balacava, T-shirt & hiking pants & use a 3/4 Z-lite pad. One trip was just 40 degrees and the other was down to 24 degrees. Note : I use a Tarptent Squall 2

Determine if you are a cold or warm sleeper when choosing!

Will not got back to a bag again for 3 season camping

Mike

my quilts don't have straps.

I don't have too many issues with draftiness, either. I seem to have practiced enough with a 20" mattress and a quilt that I sleep quite warmly, into the low 20F range with appropriate base layer and a warm beanie hat.

I sleep directly on the pad - NeoAir or Big Agnes Q Core - and the base layer does the job nicely of limiting the issue of skin-on-nylon.

As for the straps w/snaps, I never use them. I cinch down the bottom end and zip it up to create the "foot box" and once my feet are in there the rest of the quilt drapes over me like a bed quilt. I think the foot box does two things, it keeps the feet warmer becasue they are surrounded by down and also as you move around it keeps your feet contained and also keeps the quilt mostly centered. You could use the quilt unzipped and lying flat like a normal blanket but I don't think it would work well at all like that. So I guess really it's a hybrid, 1/2 quilt 1/2 sleping bag.

A lot of sleeping bags can be used as a quilt if desired. I have a WM Summerlite that I mostly use as a quilt but it has the advantage of being zip-upable if drafts become a problem. I have a homemade down quilt I used until I got the Summerlite that is warm to the mid-20°'s unless it or I get out of position. Then, drafts and cold air will wake me up and make me adjust me and the quilt. Then it is back to sleep until the next cold spot comes along. It does not have straps but does have "draft stopper" fabric strips along the sides. For temperatures to around 28°F, I like the Summerlite; it can be used as either a sleeping bag or quilt depending on conditions and it only weighs 19 oz. I can extend it's useability to near 20°F by wearing my clothes to bed. My purpose-made quilt weighs 18 oz. The quilt does have a head hole so I can use it as an insulated jacket but I can accomplish pretty much the same thing by wrapping my sleeping bag around me in cold weather.

I was just looking at a WM bag, very nice! But at 435$ I could get 2 of Tim's quilts!

Oh man you guys suck, I just placed my order! Tim has my size and temp ready to stuff. Grey/lime

Great. Now I'm considering one. Need a 3 season quilt or bag. My 15 degree Mountain Hardwear bag has quarter zip. Impossible to vent and easy to get hot in it. Therefore, it be reserve for cold, cold nights in this area.

190$ 20 deg overstuffed, basicly the same as the 10 deg quilt, really not bad at all.I just ordered it and Tim instantly emailed me and said it would be stuffed and shipped by Thursday! That's impressive.

Oh and 1.5 lbs!!! Half the weight of my current bag.

I noticed he has a synthetic version, anyone know the stuff size? Sorry for mildly derailing the thread.

Derail away! It still is very pertinent to the conversation. I too are courious about this.

On a side note funny how no matter where we are technologically we still find the basics the best. Wool, down, skin... Anyone see the nat geo a few months ago, the last inset has a picture of a Eskimo with a walrus gut coat. I swear it looks as modern as any high end parka produced today. So it makes sinse that a blanket format is more comfortable in general. It's what we are use to and use everyday.

Talk about derail......

Got my quilt yesterday! It's so nice great craftsmanship. Can't wait to try it.

You will not find anyone complaining about Tim's quilts, even if you look hard. Certainly nobody will have anything ill to say about his customer service.

The one thing is, though, you have to like quilts. If you don't like quilts, there's nothing in particular that EE can do to change that.

What stuff sacks are people using for thier quilts? I was thinking z packs cuben fiber sack looks good for $13.

I use an 11 liter REI brand compression sack. It could fit in something a bit smaller but I don't feel right compressing it too much. Also mine is a long/wide version, if you have a regular length/width you could probably fit in something smaller.

I'm a sick sick puppy! I just ordered a quilt sized for my son (9 yo)I love my quilt so much! Thanks everyone!

Congrats. Hope your 9yo gets many trail nights with it.

I've come close twice this week on ordering one of these. Tonight, looking at the fabric options, I think I'll go with the more water/wind resistant outer material in the regular Revelation quilt, hoping the regular width for my 165 lbs., 6' height will work. It will still be lighter by over 6 oz. than my WM Caribou bag. As soon as I sell another motorcycle, I'll be set.
Duane

This weekend my new EE quilt will get the 30F temp ratings tested, we're headed up to the mountains for two nights and the lows are forcasted at or around 30f both nights. I'm pretty sure I'll need to sleep in my long johns and LS base layer shirt, socks and balaclava, and worst case I can put my jacket on or *worst worst* case I have a SOL emergency blanket. I'll report back!

Let's us know how it goes! I had one cold night with mine and it worked flawless! As a side sleeper I was concerned but the concerns where unfounded.

What width did you get? If I sell my motorcycle, I may order a quilt in the regular width. I'm a side sleeper, 6', 160-165 lbs. I placed a tape measure over myself last weekend while laying on my side, seems plenty of "drape" on each side of me, even in the fetal position. Let me know y'alls take. I'm not sure if I meet Tim's example of a slim side sleeper.
Duane

I went with a wide as per Tim's recommendation. I'm 5'8" 165 lbs so I went with a 5'6" quilt wide and it has more than enough material to keep you covered, or completely closed like a standard bag.

Well, since I'm taller, maybe a regular would work if there is plenty of material. I'd also use my down liner jacket if needed to cover me up. Thank you. I wish the wind/water resistant outer shell material had more colors.
Duane

I was concerned with moisture build up in a bag with cuben fiber outer shell. Plus twice as much!

Duane, I'd suggest the wide width since it adds minimal weight and would be more comfortable. I am 6'1 and 170lbs and a side sleeper and the only thng I wish was that it was a bit longer. I have the long/wide 30F

This weekend my 30F Relevation X left me very cold on a upper 20's to low 30's night. It was the worst night's sleep I ever remember. The following night it was a few degrees warmer and I added a layer on top of all my base layers and I slept much better. Wish I had spent a few more $ ($10?) to go with the 20F version. Honestly I wish I had brought my Kelty 20F mummy bag, the extra 13oz of pack weight would have been well worth it after the very unfcofortable night. Nothing against the quilt at all, I still love it, but I guess I pushed my luck on the temp rating.

Also on the 2nd night I wrapped my quilt in a light tarp to help stay warmer and there was quite a bit of moisture on the tarp in the morning. So the quilt itself breathes well, I noticed zero moisture build up the previous night.

Hmm, that's interesting that you were cold, Tim says they are already over stuffed, so his 30 quilt should be good into the 20's I would think. I usually hit some 28-30 degree nights in August in the Sierra during my week long vacation trips. Sleep comfort can vary from trip to trip. I was out bping Saturday night, checked temps for where I was going that AM. Low was supposed to be around 32, so I took my summer bag, a WM Caribou 35 degree bag. I figured if I added my wool underwear to compensate for any snow or freezing temps, I would be fine or get by. I also wanted to recheck my theory that when it rains, you are colder. I was correct, I was colder. One of my worse nights I think I have ever had and may have been part of the BD Hlight tents drawbacks. It is not waterproof, but almost water resistant. A few tiny pools of water this AM. More experience under my old belt.
It was 27-28F this AM.
Duane

I got a 20 deg with overstuff, glad I did, I save all my ounces so I can add a few for comfort! I figure my 20 deg quilt is my 3 season bag while my mountian hardware 0 deg bag for winter and colder temps.

Did you sleep wrapped up or strapped onto the pad? I actually got a 1/8" ccf I put inside then sleep on a seperate pad, pretty bomber setup.

Cranman,
I had a similar experience with my 20* Rev X quilt as I discussed in more detail on another thread. Tim's open baffle design is flawed, it allows the down to settle at the edges of the quilt, which it does. I've never had that problem with a closed baffle bag. Tim said the over-stuff might help the down stay in place. Another flaw. I should not have to pay for more insulation to get the quilt to perform at it's rated temp. I understand that many people do not have this problem with the EE quilts, but like your experience, the 7 nights I spent in my Rev X quilt were the most miserable camping nights I've have in decades.

I respect what you say for sure! I plan on pushing my quilt to the 10 deg mark but hate to be uncomforatable so I must ask what size did you get and what size are you? Type of sleeper... I'm trying to see why and to whom quilts work well for.

Llamero-when I got home yesterday I laid out my quilt flat on my bed and there were several sections with minimal down, and also some areas on the edges with too much. I was able to manipulate it from area to area pretty well, but I see what you are saying about the open baffle design. One note though, I have used this quilt several times and never checked the down distribution, so it didn't happen overnight. I feel like this could probably be corrected by a good sewer, but I would have to agree this design is not ideal.

I thought I might be camping on snow, so I did bring my old ccf pad and used my short NeoAir also. My bag gained 2 oz. of weight was all.
Duane

Cranman,
EE told me to lightly brush the down and redistribute it throughout the quilt. I did and it worked, but then I laid under my quilt for about 10 minutes and repeatedly changed positions like I would during the course of a night. Within those 10 minutes the down had settled to the edges again. Same poor results on my next camping trip. I felt like the sewer was indeed the best place for this quilt , but I returned it. In my opinion it is a bad baffle design, not the fault of the seamstress. Maybe the new design will correct this problem. The light weight, compactness and freedom to move are great qualities of a quilt, but not at the expense of being cold.

I feel like it would be easy to repair by evening out the down and the carefully having the open part of the baffles sewed. I even considered just stictching a small spot in the center of the open part to restrict free movement of the down.

I know...you shouldn't have to do this. I have to believe the open baffle design isn't unique to EE quilts, maybe the lesser amounts of down in the 30 and 40F quilts just allows too much room for the down to move about.

I guess with the overstuff the down has a tough time migrating. Cranman is yours overstuffed? If not send it back and have him add more down.

I posted a question/comment over where Tim frequents, maybe he or someone else there can help. If I gotta spend some money, I want to save some weight too. My Caribou bag is 1.5 lbs.
Duane

What temp rating are you looking for? What rating is your caribou bag?

My WM Caribou is 35, I'm looking for 30 now. I'm seeing that as I get older, I need something a little warmer.
Duane

Tim posted this on another site I frequent.

"New baffles Jan1 with less gaps.

Anything over 30* seems fine with no overstuff but the 30 and 40 benefit very much from it.

Trying to have one baffle size for all lofts is tough and the only way to do it right is make the baffle smaller. We're not making all the boxes smaller but are making the walls bigger to reduce the size of the gap from 8" to 5". It's like the difference between an 8" or 5" continuous baffle. At 20-0* they work the same but at 40* the 8" allows too much shift. In our quilts it seems not everyone experiences migration the same so I assume sleeping style is somewhat part of the equation.

If you are having issues contact me and we can stick a little more down in there for you.

All quilts benefit from shaking down to the center though so dont every expect to never move the down before bed on any thing rated 30* or warmer."

-Tim

I often use my WM bags as quilts (as a "throw" really - I unzip the bag and use it as a blanket). The lighter weight bags (Summerlite, Megalite) don't have enough down to fill out the bag to use as a quilt. So, I have mine overstuffed by WM ($10/once). I added 3 oz to each. The extra weight is worth it for me to have the added ability to use it as a quilt (which broadens the temperature range for which I can use the bag). When not overstuffed (and used as a throw) they have the same problem you described - migrating down.

Just to be clear - when used as a sleeping bag: when the down is shaken to the top of the bag it has a tendency to stay on top because it has no where to go as you are sleeping on the other half of the bag. So, the lighter bags work well as sleeping bags, but not as a blanket (Unless fill is added).

My Western Mountaineering Ultralite also has open baffles, and the down does migrate. Some people (evidently the kind who stay in one place all night) like this feature so they can shove most of the down to the upper side. I change positions, usually from one side to the other, every hour or so at night, so I really need the down even on all sides. I've found that I need to redistribute the down almost daily during trips. I'm therefore sending my bag off for an overfill this winter. The additional 2 ounces will be worth it, IMHO, and keep me warmer to boot. BTW, the current price for overfill for the Ultralite is more like $20.00 plus shipping both ways for 2 ounces.

Rionada,

My experience is just the opposite of yours...I think. My Feathered Friends Swallow bag works great as an unzipped quilt but doesn't do as well as a zipped up sleeping bag. Go figure?

The Swallow has continuous baffles and I had it overstuffed with 2 ounces of down. The down stays evenly distributed when the bag is lying over me like a quilt. When I zip things up (sleeping bag mode), however, the down migrates. As I turn back and forth during the night I evidently massage the down in a way that moves it to the sides within a few hours.

I think my bag is too narrow for me and here's my current guess as to why the down does or does not shift. When the bag is lying loosely on top of me (quilt mode) I can spin to my hearts content without rubbing the bag and moving the down. When the bag is in sleeping bag mode it is tight on me (think burrito) and I press outward against the inner bag every time I move.



This whole sleeping bag warmth thing is complicated and confusing........and interesting.