Trying to choose between a few sleeping bags

Input needed. I need a better bag and need advice on two I think look like good deals from Campmor. See below:

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___42558
or
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43171

The Mtn Hardware is about 8oz lighter but not quite as warm.
The Kelty is $30 cheaper and 5 degrees warmer but heavier!

The Kelty has down insulation, not sure the advantage of down over the Thermic Micro insulation in the Mtn Hardware.

Advice? Also, my budget is $150 shipped so if you know of a better deal somewhere else let me know! Thanks!

oops...found a few more: http://www.rei.com/product/833127/marmot-always-summer-45-sleeping-bag-long-2011-closeout

http://www.rei.com/product/832215/kelty-light-year-40-down-sleeping-bag-long-right-2011-overstock

For the extra half pound you get a bag with 600 fill down. Definitely worth it in my book.

IMO, I don't agree..

600 fill down is nice if the fact that it gives more loft for the weight than, say, 450 or 500 fill down, actually translates to *less weight*.

I would not choose a *heavier* bag because it was down, or a higher fill number.

(I might chose it for more loft, better fit, or real warmth)

the synth bag is interesting because it is so light. however I am slightly suspect of the rating - see if you can find someone
here with some experience in it.

My only real reccomendtion? buy the kelty and the marmot at REI, try them on, and return the one that doesn't fit as good. For me fit is real important - how it feels.

I'm at a loss to give you a better recommendation however because

1) I don't think I own a 45F rated bag.. my lightest sleeping bag is -3C rated. (so like, 25-28 F)
2) Most of my bags are twice or more your budget I spend as much as I can tolerated here, and I'll cheap out everywhere else.

I may have not made myself clear. I do not recommend the down bag because it is heavier. I recommend it because it is 600 fill down. A down bag of lower fill rating would put it on par with the synth bag, in my book.

The down (taken care of properly) will likely far outlast the synthetic fill bag. It will also likely be warmer than the synth bag as well, I just didn't put that part in my other post.

I have a Kelty synth bag rated for 45 degrees and have no complaints about it, save that it is not down. I just could not afford a down bag at the time. It weighs 2lb 2oz IN its stuff sack and packs down pretty small for a synthetic.

The advice about trying both bags to see which fits better is pretty good. For me, I tend to look for the best compromise between weight and roominess, as I am 6'1" and 225lbs. I dislike small bags.

Warm, light, cheap, pick two. That's how it works. There is nothing inherently wrong with a synthetic fill bag and in some circumstances, they are better than down. If I was kayaking or canoeing in marginal conditions, a synthetic fill bag would be my choice. I have a TNF Cat's Meow, a bag rated at 20F. Mine is old (25 years or so) so I doubt seriously it would be warm at 20F and if I recall right, it wasn't warm at 20F when new. But, for what it is supposed to be-a relatively warm bag at a decent price, it is a good buy. On the other hand, my down bag of similar vintage is good to around 20F, which is close to its rating (-5C, which is +23F), but cost twice as much.

Good input guys, thanks.

I like the idea of ordering two and picking the best fit, then return one. Makes alot of sense, the $10 for return shipping would be well worth the ability to try several on for size!

Check to see if any of those bags are EN13537 rated. I believe the newer Kelty bags now use these ratings. Most makes of inexpensive bags do not use these ratings. Note, however, that there are several different rating levels--make sure you get the right one: Deciphering EN13537 temperature ratings. Otherwise, assume the advertised rating is 5-10*F colder than what it really is!

There are several REI very close to you. You can go to the store, and try the bags on.

I had to comment - the Always Summer at the link you have is nine dollars more than I spent on the Never Summer, a 0 degree bag with a lot more down in it! If you haven't tried Sierra Trading Post and got on the Deal Flyer, you may be missing some excellent deals on bags.

Too many people have told me their Mountain Hardwear bags aren't warm enough. I'd go with the Marmot or Kelty - both are EN rated about the same, 50F comfort rating, so I'd go with the lighter of the two. Or, go with the Campmor branded 20F bag, which is more realistically a 30F bag in practice, and spend about the same as you would on that Kelty. It's always easier to open zippers or use the bag as a quilt than to make a cold bag a warmer one.

+/- 5 degrees means nothing with respect to sleeping bag ratings. In fact the "ratings" are very subjective. I have a "45-degree" synthetic bag that I seldom use because I sleep cold and cannot even use it in 55-degree conditions. I only use it for coastal hiking where temps stay about 60 degrees day and night. If you have to take extra clothing to sleep in then there really is no weight savings in getting a 45-deg bag. I am with Lori- find a 30-degree bag of the same weight. As for budget- tighten your belt in other areas- when I was a poor college student I invested in top-dollar gear by eating beans and rice for a month, giving myself haircuts, not driving a car, and living in a dump. It is all a matter of priorites.

I'll have to check into the Sierra Trading Post. Always looking for good deals.

I ended up ordering a Kelty 20F and Mtn Hardware 32F bag from Campmor, and I'll try both and pick my favorite. I think the Kelty was 3.2lbs and it's uses down insulation, and the Mtn hardware bag was 2.2lbs and used synthetic insulation. I think the Kelty was 129 and the Mtn hardware was 149.

Thanks for all the input, the advice to order 2 and pick the best fit helped me decide (well at least narrow it down to 2!)

I just got a Kelty Light Year 20º and I like it a lot, though I've only used it a few nights so far. I think it's "comfort" rating is 32º, and it's comfortable for me at that temp.

But I only paid $132 with shipping. Mine is last years model and it has 600 fill-power down, the new one has 650 fill-power down and it's over $200 now.

I suggest you search around to see if can find one of last years for the same or less than the price as I paid. You're still within budget if you do, and you'll be good for a few more degrees of coldness.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___43167

I'm sure it's heavier that the one you're looking at, but the added weight is all down.

One thing I'll note is that I'm 5'9"/140bs and the bag fits me about perfect. I don't think it'd work well if your taller or weigh more, in that case you might want a larger bag.

Bill- Yeah that is one (the Kelty light year) of the two bags I have coming, but mine is a long length which adds 4oz. No worries, I can't stand to be cramped and I am 6'1 so the long works much better. I'm pretty sure it was $129 and free shipping. I feel like I will like the Kelty better, but the Mtn Hardware is a full pound lighter, although it is a 32f bag. I do have Army poncho liner that I love, that I think I could use with the Mtn hardware that should get it on par with the Kelty as far as warmth. I tried to weigh the poncho liner on our inaccurate home scale and I know it's well under a pound. The in warmer months I leave the blanket at home.

The fact that the MH bag is lighter would worry me. Synthetic is generally the heavy option. I bet it's not a 32F bag.

A Western Mountaineering bag (Alpenlite) comparable to the Kelty (20F) is more than a pound lighter, has less fill, but uses 850 down and costs $480. WM also has another 20F bag the Ultralite that is narrower and costs $435. In other words for 4 times the cost, you get what many consider the best. Proves my point-light, warm, cheap-pick two.

Although to the credit of kelty, REI, MEC and a few others, there are a few midrange lighter weight down bags which offer at least some sort of middle ground. it wasn't that long ago it seemed to me that it was either something in the price, weight and quality of the WM bags (which is very good) or really really heavy and bulky. Yes, those kelty and REI bags are not as light as a WM bag, but they are not *that* heavy either. It used to be a lot more difficult to get a lighter weight bag.

If there is one item you're going to spend some money on, this is it IMHO.

I own an WM Alpinlite, and it is a great bag.

I justify the cost this way (to my wife of 25 years and my dad of nearly 25 more). If I drove to some lovely place and spent a week in a hotel, I would pay more in hotel bills in that one week than I paid for that bag. The weeks I've spent in my Alpinlite have been paid for many times over.

Had I bought something else along the way, I still would have ended up with this bag. I saved money by buying it when I did.

I am, without doubt, the worlds finest at spending someone else's money.

another way to look at it, maybe.

I notice (with my large hiking group) that there are those who go once or twice a year, backpacking. They don't use the bag a lot. They don't go more than a night, and they don't do high miles per day.

I on the other hand started to really hike a lot and started to volunteer for SAR - if that isn't motivation to get the pack skinny and light, I don't know what is - keeping up with that deputy means being light on your feet. I backpack every month, at least one night, often 2-7 nights. Depends on what's going on with training and how many searches, and what the hiking group is doing. I use my gear a lot, for different things.

Spending that initial $500 on two high fill power down quilts was the best thing I could have done - they have over and over proved to keep me comfy and warm in all the 3 season travels I've had, and each weighs 1 lb 6 oz. Each packs down to a small ball and they fit side by side in the bottom of my 40 liter pack. When hammocking I take both. When ground sleeping I take one and add in a NeoAir.

I can estimate that I will have years of ongoing use of them, and so they really were the cheapest option I could get. If I were going out a couple nights a year, picking up something heavier and cheaper (a synthetic would be cheapest) would have meant carrying more weight, probably a larger pack, but if I managed to find a cheap option that was actually also warm? It might last a good long time simply because I wasn't stuffing and restuffing it every other week. Keeping a cheap synthetic uncompressed can extend its lifespan if it's not used a lot.

Last year I borrowed a 0 degree North Face synthetic from someone for an anticipated winter trip. It had burn marks on the shell but the guy still used it because it still worked reliably for him as a winter bag. I literally could not get the thing in my pack! I couldn't get it in a compression sack! My 55 liter pack bag was full nearly to the top with this bag. Since I did not end up going on the trip I borrowed it for, that did not matter a whole lot. This year, with a bit of a gear scholarship from SAR, I was able to get a down 0 degree - a Marmot 650 fp bag. It fits in the same pack with room to spare for the other winter gear and clothes. A 800+ fp bag would have left me more room still, I'm sure, but it's a radical difference, and I don't mind the 4 lb weight of the bag at all, given that the synthetic was 2 lbs heavier... A 4 lb bag for winter for me is fine. I won't use it that much, and hopefully will get rides from the helicopter or the snow cat at least part of the time.... SAR being SAR. And if I do go recreational in winter, there's always a pulk!

Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but...

I do so want to move to a quilt, but spent a tremendously cold night in the Canyonlands a couple of springs ago freezing my rear-end off in a JRB No-sniveler and bivy. I was on a Neoair AND closed-cell. Granted, the ground was cold, but the problem was drafts, and perhaps the quilt just wasn't lofty enough? Walked back to the car for my Alpinlite the next morning and was fine for the rest of the trip.

Been looking at a Nunatak 20degree at 20oz and tempted to try again with a bit beefier quilt. Pricey, but would love to carve that 12 oz and space out of my pack!

What you're missing there is what the temps were that night and which version of that quilt you had. Also whether the quilt was actually the right size for you - people of a heftier build can have issues with regular size quilts wrapping around them well enough. JRB makes the larger quilts and also quilt wings that help you tuck in more firmly.

I have three season Hudson Rivers, have slept down to the mid20F temps in them reliably without issues, and without a bivy. But I'm usually in a hammock or a tent of some kind, and the quilt will wrap around me without quilt wings.

You are absolutely right. Once you reach the tipping point and know you will spend lots of nights out of doors, pay whatever it takes to get a warm, light bag. It hurts when you cough up the dough, but the return is many nights of comfort. My first expensive bag lasted me for twenty years and even then, it was stolen; it didn't wear out. I still use its replacement, although I have supplemented it with one of those nice REI bags that indeed seem to be a good value, well balanced between weight and warmth.

I agree. The technology is getting better and prices are either stable or actually less. Example, I have a Marmot Alba (-10F) made in 1992, original price, $400. Just got it used and hard to believe, the owner had the original tag for it. In today's dollars, that would be about $613 as of 2010. That bag is 650 down and just a microfiber shell. A Marmot Col Membrain, rated to -20F, with a breatheable, waterproof shell, 850 down lists for $639, so for an extra $26 in adjusted dollars, a better bag. The Lithium, rated only to 0F is $479. In real dollars, I saved about $3-400 by buying my bag used, depending on what you compare it to.

I've been happy with my Mountain Hardware Lamina 45 bags.

They have been true to rating and kept by 6 year old and I warm when we took them out in conditions that were in the low to mid 40s on the VA section of the AT.

Sorry, I wrote something longer, but then the website reset or something and lost my post twice!!

Thanks for the perspective guys, all advice is appreciated. I may not have mentioned it before, but besides myself I have two sons I'm trying to gear up too, so any $$ decisions have a X3 multiplier My old bag is close to 5lbs (ugh) and very bulky, so if I can shed 2 pounds it will be a big improvement for the near term. Looking forward to Tuesday when UPS comes for a visit, I love to open packages!

Recieved the Kelty Light Year 20F and Mtn Hardware 32F bags today. Tried both and think I like the Kelty better. Sure it's 1 lb heavier, but seems better made and more comfortable overall. I think I would go with the Mtn Hardware bag except the zipppers (2) only go about 1/3 way down on each side, and got stuck several times already.

I wanted to like the Mtn Hardware better though. Another thing, there was not much chance of getting it in the included stuff sack!

Last question, will a 20F bag be too hot? I tend to sleep hot, but I know once temps go down at night most of us like to stay warm...what's a typical comfortable range for a 20F bag?

The Kelty keeps me warm down to 32º. I've used it in the mid-20ºs, and while I wasn't toasty warm, I wasn't really cold either. At those temps I laid my down coat over top of it, mostly because I had it with me, and then I was toasty warm.

The comfort rating for that bag is either 30º or 32º. I'd say that's pretty accurate for me, and I'd say I sleep a bit cold compared to some people.

I used it two nights ago when the lows were in the mid-50's and with it zipped only about half way up I was very comfortable.

Personally, I am very happy with the Kelty Light Year Down bag so far. Unless it starts coming unraveled at the seams I expect be happy with it for many years to come.

Don't have anything to add about the bags. If you are sleeping hot, just use the bag as a quilt and flop it over yourself. When I am running really hot, I sleep with my feet sticking out and then I am fine. If my feet are happy, I'm happy...apparently they are key to helping me thermo-regulate.

sK

Whether a 20-degree bag will be too hot depends on the outside temperature - and I don't mean that as a wise-guy response.I'm assuming that your question is, "If I carry this year-round (as my general purpose sleeping bag), will it be too hot in the summer?"

It depends on what your summer weather is like. If you're in the lower Midwest, yeah, it probably will be. If you're in the upper Midwest, or in the New England mountains, it may not be (I don't have the experience there to know.) For a lot of years, I carried a 20-degree bag in the lower Midwest as my only bag, and it worked. What I found was that if it was hot out, I could just leave it in my pack and sleep with no covers. If it got chilly toward morning, I simply used it unzipped as a quilt, draped loosely over my shoulders and upper body, or maybe with only my feet in it, or whatever felt good - kind of like sleeping in my bed at home with the window open. In 40 degree weather, I'd sleep inside it, but might only zip it to my waist; as it dropped toward 30, I might zip up, but not do up the hood or tighten it around my shoulders.

In the southern US, I'd expect (based on a few mid-summer camping trips to Virginia and backyard campouts in August with granddaughters in Georgia), it may very well be too much bag. Down there, a light fleece blanket is probably plenty unless you're going up into the mountains.

In North Carolina, I'd guess the answer is, it depends on where you go. If you head north or northwest, the bag will probably work fine; if you head south, it's going to be excess weight.

But for starting out now, you should worry more about the lows you expect to encounter; you can always not use the bag when it's hot, but you can't make it warmer when it's too cold. If you regularly find, later on, that the 20-degree bag is overkill in the summer, you can always add a 40 or 50 degree bag to your collection later (REI carries, I think, some cheap light bags advertised as "travel sacks" or "travel bags." You could also see if a "liner" would work (and use it to extend your bag's rating in colder temperatures.)

I hope that helps; I really don't have a frame of reference as to how general-purpose a 20-degree bag is in the western mountains or other areas.

You might not like this bag then. It has a 3/4 length zipper and the foot is boxed. Most of my nights out are in the 30ºs, and few are in the 50's, so it works well for me here, and I have a lighter bag if I need one.

Yes I do not like bags that don't have a full zipper. Makes it limited and uncomfortable for me.

Yeah like Glen said, you can always not use the bag on warmer nights, but when it's cold you can't make a light bag warmer. I do have a few Army poncho liners which should work well if we camp in the heat of summer. Really though, around here July and August can be opressively hot so we probably wouldnt BP in that sort of heat anyways.

Man, I can't wait for the tax return. I plan to buy the women's 20 deg Kelty lightyear down, for my wife. Hurry up IRS and put the money in my bank account.

I am right with you. Considering a western Mountaineering Alpinlight, or a Marmot Helium. I have been extreamly happy with the other Marmot gear that I have. I have had my eye on that Granite Gear Blaze ac 60 pack as well??? Have to wait and see.
The Climb had a good Kelty sale a month or so ago. Cheap prices. I have seen some nice bags on steep and cheep a time or two as well..

Just pulled the trigger on the women's Kelty lightyear 20 deg down for my wife. Although I was tempted to get one for me, I decided to wait till next year and get the WM that I want. I also decided to finally get a water filter. I bought the Sawyer Squeeze. I used one last year and loved it.

Congrats!

I hope your wife loves the bag. I'm sure the WM is worth the wait, but it's still tough to hold off. I'll have to check into the Sawyer Squeeze. I like my Katadyn Hiker, but it's really more than I need for a few nights out, especially when going solo.

My friend got the squeeze last year and we used in on a week long King's Peak hike. There were four of us in the group. I think a larger group would need a faster and easier filter. The squeeze is definitely more of a solo filter.

I think it all boils down to trapping warm air above you and your pad. For the weight, high-loft down does this the best. I favor an oversized bag that allows me to wear layers inside without compressing the loft.
Be careful of ratings. If you look in Campmor's catalogue for example, you will see bags using the same insulation for which the bag with less insulation weight is rated by that manuafacturer higher than the other bag. I trust the ratings of high-end down manufacturers like Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends. These are probably out of your price range, but serve as a point of comparison. In the synthetic arena, I think Big Agnes ratings are pretty good.