Tarp tents concern

So my wife and I want to get into backpacking. I have a decent amount of workable equipment because I used to spend a lot of time camping off a dual-sport motorcycle (FYI, I always stayed on legal motor vehicle trails, or, more commonly, dirt roads).

Anyway, my wife went out and got me a pack that weigh 5 lbs. It seems to have a lot of features and a 60 L capacity, which is good. The weight is a bit high, but I'm not really in a position to ditch it since it was a gift, and functional.

Almost entirely packed, I came in at about 25 lbs. Not bad for a new guy, but I'd sure be a lot happier at 20. Problem is I'm kind of cheap. I have workable gear that I accumulated over several years on my bike and I don't want to spend a ton more. I don't want to drop several hundred on a new sleeping bag when my synthetic 20* bag is useable. I use a home made alcohol stove for my cooking, so I can't save much weight above that. I've got a fairly light, very comfy big agnus sleeping pad that I could only get meager savings off of, and at a loss of comfort. My tent, though... I've got a Sierra 2 person (ahem, 1, in my opinion) tent that weighs several pounds. Haven't weighed it yet, because I'm a little afraid I'll hate it more.

I was looking at the rain fly and an old 2 man tent footprint I had, and thought I could save a couple pounds by loosing the tent body and poles. I could be adequately protected from a lot of weather and I could carry bug wipes to keep the insects away.

My concern is based on an irrational fear. I am terrified of snakes. Hate 'em. All of 'em. I know that MOST of my imagined hikes would be above the level where the snakes would be a *reasonable* fear, but I'm not *reasonable* when it comes to snakes.

Is there anything anyone who tarp camps in areas where dangerous snakes are a real concern can suggest to keep me tolerant of the concept?

I don't have an irrational fear of snakes, but I do spiders

Rather than try to "train your brain" to something you aren't that comfy with, just stick with something enclosed for now. Later on if you find you're comfortable without, change then.

It doesn't matter if the fear is "irrational" - if it's going to keep you from sleeping well, and keep you from having fun, well, don't do that - you'll enjoy the sport more.

If your tent is a "Sierra" (Sierra designs) it may not be that bad in any case, depending on the model. My solo six moon designs tarp tent weighs 23 grams (errr.. no that would be 23 ounces), and it's enclosed - no snakes can get in, You could also get out the sewing machine, there's a few good designs out there and adding some lightweight toille, or mosquito net to the sides of your tarp would keep bugs and other critters out when staked down, etc.

25 pounds (is that everything without food water and fuel) is not too horribly bad - you're better than most people who start in the big box stores. I generally start out in the 10 to 15 pound base range depnding what I am doing, and that's with a pack that weighs a little over a pound. (and that usually means that I'm starting down the trail for a weekender with food and a litre of water with the pack weighing somewhere in the 13 to 20 pound range...)

Weigh your tent and see... compare it to the stuff sold at six moon designs or tarptent.com - while your tent may weigh more, it may not weigh *enough* more to go replace it right away

Another possibility for you, depending on your comfort with one, might be a hammock.

I realized my biggest weight reductions. By studying others gear lists.(checkout phats above it helpd me) and understanding what I could live without or getting multiple use out of.
And for the most part I do remain under 20 pound base weight with. A rather large three person tent for my wife,myself and our two kids.

I also carry all of the cooking gear for them as well as my kids sleeping bag. Simply by not bringing anything I do not I repeat do not need.

You don't even want know what my base weight is for a solo hike these days its sick.

Minimalization is the key in my opinion.

I will say goodluck to u sir and remember to have fun and enjoy your trips a few extra pounds will only make you stronger.

Welcome to the forums you will be amazed ay the plethora of info avail here and the great mods and members willing to help

BTW tarptents are great I've been dreaming about them for years. Fortunately I've reached the point where I have a fully functional kit so maybe oneday

"...My solo six moon designs tarp tent weighs 23 grams..."

Wow, that's pretty good - .9 ounces! You must have clipped a bunch of unnecessary tags and straps off - and maybe a few other irrelevant things like floor, walls, and zippers?

I'm assuming you meant 23 ounces (which agrees to the website.) But I couldn't resist giving you a hard time.

It is true that snakes are typically not much of a problem in most backpacking situations, especially if you keep a clean camp which doesn't attract the rodents which will attract the snakes. Still a lot of us don't exactly enjoy them. They worry me a lot less now than they used to.

You can certainly get out on trips with what you presently own, and with experience you will develop priorities for ways in which you can shave off pounds. I think we have all done that.

Actually, the best reason for carrying an enclosed tent is to keep the bugs away. They probably present more hazards than snakes, depending upon the area in which you are hiking. Year in and year out, honey bees kill more people than snakes in the USA, by a considerable margin.

Where are you hiking? Most of my experience has been in Arizona and southern California, and I have encountered a snake or two.

Duhhhhhh.. sorry, I'm used to doing all my own stuff in normal units, and I occasionally do a stupid when converting back to "flems per cubic furlong" units for those of you southerners used to the arcane

It's ok to pick on my about it.. I'll cry in my larger pint of beer

Ill Drink to that Phat. All good advice, all I can say is go backpacking. I gaurantee after 4 or 5 days you will come home and not be as cheap about gear. I was same way had 35 year old heavier gear. On the bright side with patience and research some good deals can be had out there, to lighten the load. This takes much time and research. Good luck, ejoy backpacking and with time and resources you will love it. When your weight goes down the enjoyment goes up! I sugest watch steepand cheap, the climb, and rei for sales. Cabelas at times has some great deals too. Happy Trails

I still can't see why most of the world uses metric - all that multiplying and dividing by 10 and 100 - the math is crazy! That's probably why the pints have to be larger - to provide more solace.

I went to enclosed shelters decades ago because of similar concerns about snakes and other possible visitors.

During my tarp days I had mice run over my face, mountain beavers hop over my sleeping bag and slugs crawl onto my face as I slept.

I sleep much better knowing that I am fully enclosed in a tent. And for larger visitors I at least know that they must get through the nylon before their paws and teeth start on me.

In some cases I think the tent may discourage animals. A friend of mine recently discouraged an agressive dog, for example, by placing the opaque canopy of an umbrella between her and the dog.

I also recommend bringing most things into the tent. I left my empty backpack outside one night and some animal tore it badly because (I'm guessing) of the salty taste from my sweat.......and a friend of mine found a small rattle snake in her boot when she left it outside the tent.

Wow, guys, thanks for the responses and help.

Let me try to reply:

Phat, It was actually 24.3 lbs, included most food except some jerky, only a couple first aid pieces. I had a little over 2 liters of water when I measured. I was also missing spare socks and underwear in my pack. It's under what I thought it would be.
Re hammock, I've spent around a dozen nights in a hammock when saving room on the motorcycle. I am a cold sleeper and am typically chilly when camping. I can think of maybe one low elevation night when I wasn't freezing in a hammock. That said, it was a cheap hammock that didn't let me sleep diagonally because the material and my sleeping bag (also sleeping pad when I tried it) kept sliding me to the middle.

Oldranger,
Sorry, haven't filled out my profile. I'm near Boise, ID and will do most of my hikes in Idaho because, well, then I don't need an out of state fishing license. Shoot. Gotta add the weight of my fly rod and reel.
Also, I'm fortunate (?) to know I'm not allergic to bees, at least in small quantities. Like I said, I KNOW I shouldn't worry about snakes, but, ugh. I have a career that has me doing dangerous stuff on a fairly regular basis, things much more threatening that being around snakes, doesn't make a difference in my mind.

DJ2, thanks for the input. I'm thinking that for the most part I might just stick with what I've got and replace it as I wear stuff out and find it at a good deal.

One consideration on water: do you really need to carry 2 liters of water? If you don't, you can save 2 pounds right there.

I started out many years ago (when HJ was still writing about that newfangled "fire" invention) carrying 2 liters of water because They said everyone should. I found myself arriving at streams (which occur every 2 - 5 miles where I hike) with at least a liter left. It finally hit me that They might be wrong, and I started looking at a map to see where the next water was, and carrying accordingly. That mostly meant carrying only 1 liter.

While I often try to learn from others, I think I'll figure that one out on my own. Thank you for the advice, still, and I'll keep an eye on how much I actually drink. However I think I'll error on the side of too much water.

No problem - like debating whether or not to change tents now, it's always something you can do later. In things like food and water, you don't want to spend your time on your early trips worrying about whether you have enough. After you get some experience, you'll build up a comfort level, and adjust accordingly. (Heck, my menus are still an ongoing adjustment!)

My go to shelter is a hammock - putting enough pad or underquilt underneath you is pretty much mandatory. I have been into the low 20F range without much trouble for me, other than shaking ice flakes off the underquilt. Pads have to be wide enough to keep the cold from seeping in the nylon; a short pad crosswise or a Speer pad extender (which they don't sell any more, but are fairly easy to make) helps.

I've had critters run over me while tarping. It just doesn't bother me much. The tarptents are mostly enclosed single walls and are a good compromise between tarping and tent - there are some nice models. I have a Sublite and the nylon version as well.

Never seen a snake get in with me, but have had various bugs crawl under the groundsheet to stay warm.

I'll put another mark in the hammock column. Although I don't really have an aversion to snakes, I hate bugs of all sorts, especially spiders. Being up off the ground with mosquito netting eliminates unwanted visits from creepy crawlies. In addition to that, roots, rocks, non-level terrian and ground moisture are non-issues with a hammock. There's no way I could go back to sleeping on the ground. My setup - hammock with attached netting and sil-nylon rainfly - weighs in right at 3 pounds.

OK, I'll consider the hammock again. What type are you using and what do you use for a sleeping pad?

Mine is a Clark Ultralight. www.junglehammock.com
They are pricey, but pretty much the best you can get (and made in the US). A less expensive alternative are the ENOs - http://eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/
There are other brands, but those are the only two I have firsthand experience with.

A pad is only needed in a hammock for insulation, not for cushioning like on the ground. For my comfort level, if it's above 50 at night I don't use one. Under 50 and I use one of the cheap blue foam pads.

When I first saw your post I thought you were referring to the Tarp Tent by Henry Shires. I own the Rainshadow 2, a three person fully enclosed tent. It weights 2.6 lbs, Tarp Tent sells a 2 and 1 person tent also. The only other drawback to my tent is it is not free standing, it must be staked down. It is single wall and I seam sealed it with GE silicone. I have not slept in the rain with it yet. Only in decent weather. But myself, my wife and son used it last Summer with no problem. My tent was about $340 with the footprint. CHeck out his tents and one more thing I like about Henry's tents? Made in the USA up in Washington state!

+1 for hammocks

Check out hammockforums.net for an in-depth look at hammocks and the crazy people who "sleep in the trees". You can find a wealth of info there.

Insulation is important but padding is not important. For insulation, it depends on the trip. Needs can span from hot weather and no insulation to cold weather and a down underquilt (sorta like a sleeping bag underneath the hammock).

If I'm not in a hammock, then I'll be in an open tarp (no netting). I stay in TN, AR, MO, KY, MS mainly for my trips, so I understand your concern. I've not had a problem with snakes at all. But since I've been using a hammock, I've not had a problem with any creatures or critters... cold or warm blooded.

I live in australia and we got lots of bad snakes here. I use a Moment from tarptent.com which is light, easy to put up and has a inner that the snakes cant get through. I hate sleepiong under a tarp with the mosies about.