Svea 123 R stove - get rid of it?

Everyone says to get rid of my SVEA 123R stove. So, I've been doing some experimentation to see if it is lightweight. The weights are measured on a postal scale.

Empty stove with pot & handle: 532g----1 lb 2.75 oz
Stove without pot: 450g--15.85 oz
Pot & Handle: 82 g -- 2.9 oz

Cost: $89 new today on Amazon

I've learned to cook in the 2 cup pot that comes with the stove, so I no longer carry a pot and cup. Subtract the weight of yours (if any) from the weight if this would work.

The stove sounds heavy compared to ultralight standards. I made a crude alcohol stove which was only 10 grams. Add in a stand and windscreen and it might be 25 grams. So, the SVEA loses on basic weight. Then add a pot which might be 35 grams. I don't know.

But there is more to it.

This mornining I cooked hot cereal containing:
167 gr water
47 gr 10 grain cereal
5 gr carob seeds
5 gr rice bran.

The outside temperature is 70 degrees. Water temperature was from the tap.

I let the cereal soak while filling the stove and getting it ready.

Cooking time was right at 3 minutes including priming time. I cook 6 times a day, so the time saved is a lot. If it's just 7 minutes per use, that's 42 minutes saved. That may or may not be important, but it makes it easy to cook lunch while on a quick break at a scenic spot. It also gets me out a little earlier in the morning.

Fuel used was 2 grams. I've measured about 6 meals on the stove and each time, it took 2 grams of fuel. I don't know how this compares to alcohol stoves. This sounds very tiny to me, so I'll check fuel used from a bottle over a large number of meals.

Priming fluid was less than a gram. (I use cigarette lighter fluid which works better than gas or fire paste.)

There are some tricks to using the stove.

1. Fill it each time. Letting it run even a bit low can increase fuel use to 10 grams as it takes longer to burn efficiently. Starting it when fuel is low also increases priming fluid.

2. Don't put the pot on the stove until the flame starts or it won't start as well.

3. Don't leave the stove in the sun after use or fuel vapor will come out. (In the pack is fine.)

5. Off is to the RIGHT. If you turn it to the left, it will leak vapor in time.

6. Priming - fill the spirit cup with lighter fluid and dribble just enough to the top to allow lighting without removing windscreen. Using too much fluid makes it harder to start. Turn valve 90 degrees from off after 15 or 20 seconds.

The cost of fuel is very cheap and available. I've mostly been using old gasoline which works just fine. I priced HEET at the local quick stop and it was $2.79 for 12 ounces. I'm sure you can get it cheaper elsewhere, but that's probably what I'd pay if resupplying in a small town.

The flame is easily adjustible and can simmer well without an extra simmer ring which may be needed on alcohol stoves.

One which a SVEA user can appreciate is you can adjust the flame height by sound rather than looking at an invisible flame with alcohol.

The stove will not leave burn rings on a wooden table although I use it on a safe surface when out. I've been using it on my deck a lot and it doesn't hurt it.

I'll probably eventually get real anal and bring my scale with me on a 2 or 3 day trip and see how it performs in the field in lower temperatures and at high altitude. In practice, I suspect I use more fuel than I do at home.

Cons:

Be real careful with white gas. Be sure the gas bottle is well away from the stove. Be sure the cap is on the stove before lighting.

Flareups are common for new users. They usually come from using gas for priming fluid or using too much fluid. (Too much priming fluid causes liquid gas to come out which doesn't light well until it dribbles down the side.) I've found any flareup can be doused with a handy bottle of water. But I haven't had one in a long time. This is more in the nature of a "Warning, coffee is hot" label on a cup from McDonald's.

Nostalgia factor: I'll probably change my sleeping bag, pack, tent, clothes, raingear, toothbrush, food I eat and everything else.

But I've had the stove for 34 years and have gone a lot of places with it. The brass very classy. It just wouldn't be the same without it.

The old stoves are cool, plus, I have three 123's, one of which is a "R". I have over 50 stoves now. Off to Oregon after work tomorrow for a Stovie meetup. Get some denatured alcohol to prime your stove.

I don't see any compelling reason to get rid of it until YOU get tired of carrying it around; the fact that you like it is justification enough. My first stove was also a Svea, and I carried it until about 10 years ago, when I got the Pocket Rocket. For weekend trips, I often left the fuel bottle at home; the tank held enough fuel to cook 2 suppers and 2 breakfasts. And, although my pot was only 1 liter, it was STAINLESS STEEL - and represented a huge weight reduction from the Sigg Tourist kit I used to carry. I always thought, and continue to believe, it's a great stove.

It also blows away the canister stoves for real winter use (say, consistently below 20 degrees), simply because it works. (Rhetorical question: which is lighter: a canister stove that doesn't work, or a Svea that does?)

Although I no longer have one (it went to a good friend, as a memento of trips we took when he was just getting started), I still use a white gas stove (Simmerlite) for winter cooking. That's about 1 trip a year; the rest of the time, I've chosen the Pocket Rocket because it's lighter. (The Jetboil Sol may replace it, because it's more versatile for just a couple more ounces; we'll see.)

We are here to help you find what works for your style. I heat water twice a day. Cooking six times a day is a different style.

There is NO substitute to using your gear before you get into a remote place. I always fire up my white gas stove a couple of times before I take it on a trip. Flare ups are the result of not being familiar with your stove.

Keep it if it works for you. Going light is more about carry less items than carrying the lightest of each.

Not me...I love my Sveas. I just don't hike with them anymore unless I'm melting snow, which is rare. Your original post was about pack weight savings. I suggested ditching your Svea for Esbit tablets(try it!), which is both lighter and more efficient than carrying alcohol. You won't have a stove or fuel bottle to haul, which will save you weight AND volume. You can light the stuff on a piece of tin foil, using tent stakes or rocks as pot supports. Based on your numbers, that will cut more than a pound off your pack weight which is substantial. Esbit will easily cook what you are describing.

I do use the Sveas for day hikes in cold weather, picnics, car camping, chili cookoffs, on the back porch for cookouts, but not for long distance multi-day hikes. I'd rather save my knees and back....time to make that pack lean and mean.

Part of this whole ultralight thing is wrapping your brain around breaking traditions and old knowledge. It's learning process to be embraced slowley.

As Glenn said: "I don't see any compelling reason to get rid of it until YOU get tired of carrying it around". That's perfectly sound advice. Your Svea 123R will always be a great stove. You have that part down cold and no argument here.

However, it is difficult to draw a well-reasoned conclusion before all the facts are in. If you have no experience with a canister stove, then you have a very minimal basis for comparison. My old Optimus 8R still works about as well as the day I bought it, circa 1974. I didn't get rid of it, because it is still a useful stove, but I now use a pocket rocket exclusively for three season backpacking.

Why did I switch? Simple. The pocket rocket also does what I need it to do, but does it more simply, and it is lighter. These facts do not change anything I liked about my 8R, or make the 8R a lesser stove than it was. They are comparative, rather than absolute facts. I came to these conclusions after I had experience with both stoves.

It is experience that counts most here and your experience will be your best guide - but you might want to use a canister a couple of times to broaden your experience before you make a final decision.

I really like the Jetboil. I know there are lighter options available but it's still about the weight of just your stove and includes a 1 liter(ish) pot/cup. I can have water boiling in it in a couple of minutes and the only time I've had a problem with it was when it was in the low 20s (fortunately I was car camping and just fired up the coleman three burner stove to boil the coffee/cocoa water). The convenience of having everything in one package is nice. On my last trip I took a Simmerlite with a Snow Peak titanium pot. It was also very fast to boil and pretty light. There are a lot of lighter than your SVEA options other than just the alcohol stove out there.

Side note: A friend knew a Marine in Iraq who carried a jetboil in his pack while on patrol. The other guys made fun of him until that first stop when he had a steaming hot cup of coffee in a few minutes.

I used my recent acquisition from Wandering Daisy, a vintage 8R, my second 8R, runs great, easy to operate. A week ago, the lady in our group had the Ti JetBoil Sol, pretty darn fast to boil water, never seen anything that fast. I understand that the MSR Reactor is designed to handle the wind better if that is a factor in anyones trips. A few things about both I see, the MSR only comes in one size from what I see, not a single person stove whereas the JetBoil has a nice selection of materials and sizes, both boil water fast. They make sense if more than one person or out for a week or longer considering the starting weight. The Stovie group I'm camping at Diamond Lake in Oregon later this week with, is supposed to have a rep from MSR showing and letting us use the new MSR stoves. Neat.
Duane

If he has the new version of the Pocket Rocket, ask him to demonstrate how to make it and a 110g canister fit into the Titan Kettle, with the lid closing properly (no rubber band to hold it sort-of-ly in place.) You could supposedly do it with the old PR, but I never could and no one at two local stores ever could, either.

The new version, according to the guys at the local shop, will be smaller and more compact when it comes out next spring - I'm interested in knowing whether it will finally let me stow stove and fuel inside the kettle.

Thanks.

(Idle speculation) I wonder if it fits the earlier Titan kettle but not the newer one, which has somewhat different dimensions?

The new stove will surely stow more compactly because of how the pot supports pivot. Will it all fit in the kettle? Who knows?

New MSR stoves

I confess I mostly use a cartridge stove for the convenience factor everybody notes. The downside is all those partly used cartridges I have, not to mention the fuel has become dang expenisve.

Cheers,

Lori pointed out an important point in another message. The type of stove that works best may well depend on what you are cooking.

My recipes all lend themselves to soaking in water to rehydrate for a few minutes, quickly heating to a boil, and then waiting 5 minutes to eat. With this type of cooking, fuel use is very small.

I'm also working on getting the cost of 3,000 calories below $3.00. I'm just about there. I just have to make 2 little substitutions of convenience products.

BTW, for me the most interesting new MSR in the press release is the reworked WindPro with its inverted canister stand. Four-season stove at 7 oz. Too bad there's no Ti version.

Cheers,

I've seen a stove that's faster, more compact and cheaper than the Jetboil. Literally, the guy lit the stove, open the meal pouch and poured in the boiling water - watched him do it over and over. Too bad the Primus Eta Express doesn't have the advertising or the placement at REI.

I personally would not use your stove for summer backpacking, simply because stove plus fuel container plus fuel is definitely heavier than other options. Plus I dislike anything (stove or water filter) that I have to pump!

However, do NOT get rid of your Svea! If you're camping in late fall, winter, early spring, you definitely want it because it performs far better in cold temperatures than alcohol or, especially, canister stoves. It's also superior when you have to melt snow for water.

A lot also depends on what kind of cooking you're doing. All I do is boil water to rehydrate home-dehydrated meals and, should I ever catch any , fry the occasional fish. If you're doing regular cooking, the weight difference will probably be less.

Denatured alcohol found in the paint section of the hardware store is cheaper and less environmentally harmful than Heet. Most denatured alcohol contains mostly ethanol and only about 10% methanol (to keep it from being drinkable). Heet is mostly methanol. There's a lot of difference in the amount of poisonous fumes!

I generally use a canister stove, mainly because it's convenient, much faster than either alcohol or liquid gas, and stove plus fuel is pretty much a draw weightwise with alcohol for any trip of a week or more. No, a big canister attached to unfolded stove doesn't fit in my pot, but I prefer to unscrew the stove from the canister for storage anyway. I took a MSR Whisperlite on a group trip 20-some years ago. Everyone else on the trip had Bluet stoves (the only canister stoves available then). At almost every meal, the others had finished eating by the time my water boiled! The difference was the stove preparation/pumping time. Since then, I've been a canister stove fan.

Obviously, Your Mileage May Vary! Some people collect these stoves (see the Mountaineering branch of this forum).

I don't know who "everyone"s, but don't include me in that group. Keep it!

Like most of us here I now use a canister stove in reasonably warm weather. But the Svea is a classic, tough as all get out, and a very worthwhile tool. Besides it's a real stove, made of nice shiny brass, not a soulless widget that screws onto a can.

I suppose the next generation will adore canister stoves, but I like brass!

Oldranger,

Thanks for putting it into words. It's a soul stove.

Not to mention you have Colin Fletcher in your court, which counts for something.

Cheers,

A few years ago I hiked the JMT. I took my Svea 123 along as my stove; not because it was light nor because it was efficient but because it was an old friend and I wanted to share the trail with it. Silly? Yep! But, the stove had served me well in my later mountaineering days and I wanted it with me when I hiked the JMT. Not taking it along would have seemed a bit like betrayal; like leaving your dog behind on a walk. A pound here and there to serve nostalgia is not too bad a trade. I, too, love brass.

Except for the bp trip a week ago with some from our NorthCA Hiking group, I've taken two of my vintage stoves to use and show off on every group trip since last winter. I have so many, they'll never see a lot of use. They just are neat, not a throw away stove, classics. Plus, different, not many of the younger crowd have seen them.

Duane

A good friend of mine always brings his. Two years ago I showed him my new "Pepsi Can" stove. He was impressed, but still brought his old Svea 123. Last year I showed him my brand new Supercat stove and he was even more impressed, but still insisted on bringing his brass.

Before we left he told me he cleaned it and I know he spent as much or more time doing that than I did making my first Supercat. I have to admit though, and I've never owned one, or even saw one before I saw his, there is something about his old stove that does feel like an old friend. He's had it since it was new. Got it on his first real backpacking trip back in the mid 70s. There is a certain comfort you get just looking at it and watching and listening to it while it burns. It must be an air of quality and dependability that it exudes somehow. You can tell it will last a lifetime just by looking at it.

For me, I really fell in love with the simplicity of the Supercat, and I'm growing pretty fond of using it too. I've been tinkering with some simple add-ons and thinking about some modifications, but I haven't really tried them out yet. The great thing is, there is a lot of headroom for mods and add-ons and tinkering and no matter what I do it will still weigh far less than my Coleman eXtreme stove, which I thought was pretty darn snazzy and lightweight when I first got it.

Even though I don't think I'd ever bring it backpacking, if I ever found an old Svea 123 at a secondhand store for a decent price I'd have to snatch it up just to have one. I'd set it on my shelf and look at it and I'm sure it would warm my soul

You know, I'm certainly not in the younger crowd, but I would be really interested in seeing photos of your collection and I'm sure I haven't seen many of them myself. Not to be pushy or anything but a photo and a bit of info on them would be really cool!

I really didn't know the Svea 123 was such a renowned and loved piece of gear, and I know almost nothing about the history of backpacking stoves. I do know there have been a lot of designs manufactured over the years and some of them are very complex looking and very skillfully crafted.

I'm sorry, but I just had to ask. You've mentioned you collected them before and each time I couldn't help but think of how cool it would be to see and hear about them.

I've been asked before, I'm tech challenged, but I need to pay for a site to store them so I show them off. I'd never seen a 123 until Dec. 2009, nor any of the brass kerosene stoves I have now, so it has been a real learning experience for me.
Duane

I made a Supercat a few years ago, but never played with it much, I had a tough time getting my pot to seal the top.
Duane

There is just something about old things that's fun to use. I have a couple cast iron skillets my grandmother brought with her from Poland. They were handed down from her mother, so they have been cooking Pierogi and other stuff in the family for about 120 years.

I have my grandmother's Sabbath candles. One for each of her 6 kids. When we light them on Friday night, the memories of our ancestors are all there with us.

I still have my father's old Black and Decker drill. He is there everytime I use it.

One day, my son be using his Dad's Svea stove as he hikes some long trail 40 years or so in the future. My memory will be along for the hike. I like that idea. I can't think of another piece of equipment that works so well and can last generations.

Some leave them on the mantle. A stove belongs on the trail, not on the mantle. Some polish them. I regretted the one time I did it. It took away all the traces of past use.

Watch out, Bill, the things are habit forming. They have the highest reliability rating of any stove made. No pump, and are as close to perpetual motion as you can get...mesmerizing to watch chuff to life. I've got three that span 60 years and the oldest works as good as the newest. I bought the first one at a church yard sale for $5 and it lit with the old fuel in the tank! As others have said, the nautical brass is just plain classy compared to ti or stainless steel. I do wish Optimus would come out with a modern light weight ti/aluminum version....they would own the market.

Can I caveat this a wee bit: do watch out for the Svea flamethrower. It's quite impressive.

Cheers,

Ah, we hit a good nerve here.:) Good to see others appreciate the vintage and older things.
Duane

I am new to the forum and have recently reintroduced myself to backpacking, more importantly lightweight backpacking and came across this discussion. I was curious as to what a SVEA 123 looked like and was awestruck when I did a search on the net and saw the first image. This is the stove my father carried during years of backpacking trips with my brothers and I. Dad passed away some 20 years ago but I have this stove tucked away in the garage and can't wait to get home and pull it out. I love my Jetboil Sol but may have to bring the SVEA along on my next trip. Thanks for the memories guys.

Yes! Men/boys love to play with fire.:)

On the topic of ye olde stoves and use of same, be mindful of the stove's condition before firing it up. Seals can dry, shrink and crack, leading to fuel leaks or failure to pressurize. Also, don't overfill it with fuel (needs airspace to function) or get too zesty with preheating it. Even if it's not following the Dude Rules, find some instructions if you've never before operated one.

Very generally, simple stoves like the Svea or the self-presurizing Primus and Oltimus models are likely to work after a long sleep, but a fuel leak at the valve or the fuel cap might just make your day more interesting than you'd hoped.

Fire on,

As you can tell many of us just have fond memories of the Svea. For many of us it was our original backpacking stove. It is slightly heavier than the current crop but it is probably one of the most dependable stoves ever built. I have no intention of parting with mine and and keep thinking about taking it along on a trip just for old times sake. I now use a SnoPeak most trips but when it give out and we have to part ways I will not be as upset as I would be if I my Svea died. The chances of the Svea dying are pretty remote. The chance of my SnoPeak dying are much greater.

Having rebuilt all of mine I found:
1) the valve packing seal is carbon and very tiny. Don't lose it. They really don't wear out.
2) the filler cap gasket is replaceable with a scuba 'o' ring or piece of inner-tube in a pinch. The new stock ones are red silicon.
3) NEVER run your Svea out of fuel. The cotton mop wick will caramelize and fail.
4) Before disassembly for rebuilding, spray the plumbing bits down with wd-40 or other penetrating oil and let soak a day. Brass parts around the burner become annealed and quite soft. And seized.
5)Never shield your Svea...they need ventilation...or you'll experience the "flame thrower" effect or worse. Mine have never done this but I've heard stories.

A & H Enterprise had parts for all three of mine. Good company.
http://packstoves.net/cart/index.php?main_page=index

They've got some interesting Svea and Hunter R-8 stories.

Gershon (and others) I'm late with this one as usual, but thought I'd add my .02. I have a Svea that I have had since the late 1960s. It has had no serious maintenance but still sputters away very nicely. I still like to use it, though I don't go out in deep winter enough to justify having it in my pack. But canoeing and car camping still give it a reason to stay in my gear. I still start to salivate at the sound.

I also have a much older Borde "bomb" that I salvaged out of a WWII field sterilizing kit. I used it all the way on my first AT thru-hike about 15 years ago, and it worked beautifully. It's light, simple, and reasonably efficient. Even managed to get a new needle valve for it from the manufacturer in Switzerland (fortunately I can read a bit of German).

I can't imagine getting rid of either stove, even though I now use Esbit or alcohol. Best, jcp

Like many others a Svea 123 was my first backpacking stove back in 1975. I bought it on the recommendation of backpacking authority Colin Fletcher. Remember him--the eccentric British backpacker who wrote the book "The Complete Walker"? That book was the hikers bible back then. The Svea served me well for many years, but I grew tired of the hassle of white gas and switched to canister stoves. Now I do mostly freezer bag cooking and use a Trail Designs Caldera Cone Sidewinder. I cannot find a better stove for my style of cooking. In My opinion the Svea 123, while a good stove in its time, is now a dinosaur and there are better options.

A dinosaur? Well, maybe. I, too, have gone to a canister stove or alcohol for most of my excursions which now predominantly occur in fair weather.

Some years ago, my SAR team was facing an overnight hike on snowshoes to reach an exhausted hiker. Three of us were getting ready to go, carrying one Svea. My companion, said, this could save our lives, and tossed in another Svea in his pack. Gas stoves are still the best thing for cold weather situations. Yes, they are finicky, but when you absolutely, positively must have fire, nothing beats them. In my ooinion, the good old Svea, or its near relative the Primus 71, are as good as any out there.

I'll put it this way I contemplated selling mine . Someone even made me an offer and sent a check. I then offerd it to them for free . Under the condition that they used it. Once they told me that they were a collectlor and didnt intend to use it I couldn't find in my heart to box it up an ship it. I know I eventually will I'm just having a hard time sending such a great working stove off to sit on a shelf.

Ps. I never cashed sed buyers check, actually torched it. I still intend to send them the stove. Just after one last great memory making trip

Yesterday, I went to a very small store to buy a couple caribiners for my hammock. Turns out the guy working was a hanger so he taught me a great suspension system which only cost $11.00. It was using straps to strap a kayak to a car. No stretch and very strong.

He had also been a backpacking instructor and climbing instructor at the local university. So we spent about 2 hours talking about my gear. Turns out we wear the same Keen shoes. He loved the Danner boots I bought.

When it got to the Svea, he said he loves his Jetboil. It's "lighter and easier to use." Well, I had my postal scale with me. (Does that mean I'm obsessive.) My Svea stove weighs 485 grams. The Jetboil without the cannister weighs 435 grams. It's also a LOT bigger. The jetboil pot is a lot bigger, but you can pour the water into a cup which attaches to the bottom. Since I like to cook food in the water as it's heating, that would mean two pots to clean.

Cannisters are convenient, but I'd end up with a bunch of half cannisters around, I guess. Or maybe weigh them and take the one I need based on the length of the trip. They are hard to get here.

Still, I could see he loved his Jetboil as much as I love my Svea, so I didn't say much.

If you gotta analyze over using a classic, may need to just bring a newer stove. The Jetboil is a much faster boiler, but not designed for cooking, whereas the Svea will simmer and you get to see the flame. The oldies are fun, plus, other bpers etc. don't have one for a trip, so you'll be the only one using a classic. I just won an embossed Optimus 8 on the Bay last night. Cool! 52 stoves or so now. Or is that 53 now?
Duane

Chuckles, saying I overanalyze is an understatement. This summer, I've replaced EVERYTHING but the stove, cell phone, and the SPOT transmitter. I've had the last couple weeks off, so I spent it analyzing and cut my pack weight in half (even getting rid of the pack.) The SVEA is the only thing that withstood both the tests of equal or better functionality and lower weight.