Swiss Army Knife + Scissors + Idiot...

Ok, I'll admit I like carrying an SAK classic for the scissors on it, even after helping a little in poking fun at Jim Shaw for his dull knife and scissors mantras..

However, I had to think of Jim and Safety today. I was working in between two huge racks of gear bringing up systems and was pulling ethernet patch cables out of a box that were annoyingly rolled up and tied with stuff (grrr. nothing is more annoying when you're doing *lots*) I whipped out the SAK, and thinking of "safety first" I opened out the scissors. Two cables later I promptly managed (in my annoyance) to stick my middle left finger with the scissors and bleed all over the data centre. And this being a sattelite centre with nothing around I then had to mcgyver a bandaid with cardboard packing from the machine boxes and duct tape so I could stop dripping on the floor.

Anyway, just a reminder. nothing's idiot proof, (I'm living proof).. let's be careful out there..

Lo, these many years ago, when I must have been all of 17 years old, I got a Swiss Army knife for Christmas. I cut myself with it within the first five minutes. The new ones are SHARP! JimShaw would never approve.

I'll be checking this post every 15 minutes tomorrow to see what pithy comment Jim makes in reply... I can hardly wait!

That makes me laugh. But I can't laugh too hard cause I did something worse a few weeks ago. I was using a razor blade (the flat kind you use to scrape paint with) to scrape glue off some wood at work. As I was doing this, I thought "If I slip, I will be in bad shape, I better be VERY careful". As soon as I finish that thought, I slip and stab the blade deep into my thumb. Without looking at it, I grab a big Kimwipe and press it hard against the cut. It didn't bleed much because I put pressure on it fast. I kept pressure on it for an hour, then put on a bandaid and neosporin. A couple of days later, all I have is a big scar. After I put a bandaid on that day, I went back and put the wood in a bench vise, and then scraped the rest of the glue off, making sure my body was not in the way any more. So yeah, stupid is as stupid does.

Wrong tool. I've got a Leatherman Squirt multi-tool that was made especially for Radio Shack (and sold there) that has the most accurate wire strippers I've ever used. Haven't stabbed myself yet.

Ok, here in the "DullKnife" blade care manual it clearly states:
"upon the purchase of a new knife, all cutting surfaces should be dressed by leaning them into a course wheel bench grinder, with your full body weight, rounding all edges and points, then buffed smooth with a linen buff wheel."

Phat, you could have saved yourself injury, had you read the directions.
(superglue...the miracle dressing!)

Anyone ever notice women don't have these problems? I know this because you never meet a woman named "Lefty" or "Stumpy."

I beg to differ! I'm the one who managed to cut herself on a brand new set of Chicago Cutlery kitchen knives the day after Christmas!

According to ER statistics, what you really want to watch out for are bread knives and unsliced bagels. A gazillion people gash themselves every year while trying to slice them. I think of this each time I slice a bagel, warily.

With deference to Jim, dull is not always that helpful. I spent yesterday evening in an ER getting my hand sewed up after an encounter with a rather dull piece of sheet metal. I think I might have been more careful if it had been sharp...

Eric
So is the "state of Jefferson" = Jefferson County up by mt Jefferson?

Anyway if that piece of metal had been sharp, they might have been sewing your hand back on instead of sewing it up!

phat et all, I am an expert at cutting myself to the bone, I used to do it all the time and not just with my razor sharp boy scout knife either - hack saws etc come to mind, however I still have 10 digits so I can type.

I simply found that I tended to get more minor of knicks, more like scratches, from camping cuts, instead of cutting to the bone, with a duller knife. After nearly cutting my thumb off and a lot of jumping up and down and screaming and bleading all over, I took my favorite old homemade sheeth knife and pulled the blade across a rock with enough pressure to remove that extreme edge. And to this day I keep it just almost sharp.

Women tend to cut everything with scissors except in the kitchen. I think most kitchen knifes are not that sharp unless they are new. Dishwashers etc tend to dull them, and not to be sexist, but my experience is that women don't sharpen knives - its a male oriented thing. Most kitchen knives are
dull" by the "dull knife standard" and thats why women tend have most of their fingers.

There, how was that for politically correct and gentile?
Jim - Dull Knife - and proud of it, but I do sharpen them to clean game. Sometimes you need sharp, and a butcher, Ninja, carpenter or other edged tool professional should have the sharpest tool available. Note "professional" meaning trained and aware and wearing safety gear. oh yes, I only use sharp chainsaw blades.

OK, since you've shown an appropriately high level of ineptitude, we'll now officially recognize you as a honorary Guy.

By the way, my own claim to fame: I needed to cut a piece of light foam insulation while on a roof. No place to set it, so what's the logical thing? Get down on one knee, and rest it on your thigh, then use a utility knife (razor blade) to cut without thinking things through. Result: about an inch long near-surgical incision, which only took about 4 butterfly closures and some pressure to get stopped. Pants were trashed, too.

Jim,
The Mythical State of Jefferson is an area of south west Oregon and northern California that tried to form a new state in the late 1930s- early 1940s. The move might have succeeded but the attack on Pearl Harbor put a stop to it. It has not, however, been forgotten by the locals. There are "Entering The State of Jefferson" signs on some of the highways and the local NPR station is Jefferson Public Radio. This all got started because the folks in Portland and Sacramento didn't give a crap about this area and for that matter, mostly, still don't. We're lucky enough to be on the Oregon side of the line, by 2 miles, so at least we don't pay CA taxes.

My mom cuts herself more than anyone I know. I always worry when she is cutting food for dinner, it almost never fails. But, she still has all fingers, barely (bad arthritis).

Last week end I spent some hours dismantling and cutting some various cans for making stoves, handling all sorts of hazardous holes and ragged edges, no problem.
Then I washed my hands and went to prepare lunch
Got a first nick hacking some garlic (hurts!), then slashed my finger while slicing a juicy bell pepper(hurts even more than garlic...)
Bad days...

Here there was talk of forming the State of Superior as recently as the 70s out of the U.P. and northern WI. A story that characterized neglect from downstate . . .

An EMT was telling me that they were waiting for information materials from Lansing (state capital). It didn't come and finally they called. She was told "Oh, we didn't have enough so we just didn't send any to the U.P."

So, even though we don't live on Lake Superior, Superior is a common business name here. Just 4 blocks away is Superior State Administrators, an insurance agency.

If I remember right wasn't it a DJ who was really pushing for it? I'm from up that way too but haven't been home in years.

dull" by the "dull knife standard" and thats why women tend have most of their fingers.

My Wife is left handed and holds a piece of fruit or whatever in her right hand and cuts with the blade going towards her palm. I've seen her cut herself more than once. I've tried to explane and show her how a culinary artist should use a knife. I ain't, about to sharpen those knives. And she has cutting boards. But I guess the boards can't do ALL THE CUTTING now can they?

You can cut yourelf with either a dull knife or a sharp one. You are more likely to slip and cut yourself with a dull knife IF you are using your knives correctly. The other problem with a dull knife is that it has a tendency to rip instead of cutting cleanly and rips take longer to heal.

I'm going to have to agree with the Cook. If your cutting your self all of the time you're not handling it properly.

I learned my lesson on my first knife when I cut deep into my palm while trying to open a small package. I still have the scar to remind me.

A knife is similar to a gun. It can only hurt someone if you get on the business end. Careful guys tents are hard enough to set up with all of your fingers!

I agree with you about guns and knives. I like a knife sharp enough to shave with, a dull knife to me is worthless and dangerous. Maybe my wife should just shoot the stuff apart instead of using a knife. She is a crack shot. Uncanny sense of where the target is. You should see her waving her 9mm around. yikes...

We were having dinner last week with my Son and his new wife when she tried to stop the free spinning food processor blade and sliced the pad from her right index finger.
A lot of people don't realize what a sharp edge is capable of.

A 9mm for cutting fruit?

tcook

its a matter of degree. There's sharp and then there's sharp. I say if you can't run the blade sideways over your skin without cutting, its too sharp for camping, especially going solo unless you need to skin game. (Unless your are an edged tool professional). People think razor sharp is really sharp - its not, nor are scalpels that sharp and for a reason. A scalpels imperfection leaves a more ragged edge than a micro-tome, and those edges are where wound closure starts from. A cut from an extremely sharp tool does not stop bleeding on its own, a cut from a lightly sharpened blade does.
You guys should read some medical literature or even read the quotes that I posted elsewhere from medical literature - a slightly ragged cut closes and heals faster than one from an extremely sharp tool. For this reason surgeons like to make atleast the first opening cuts with a scalpel, so the wound will close more quickly. They mak use other sharper tolls while insde.

Jim

phat

cool photo
Now a .44 makes a much larger and finer spray.
Jim
What i need a can opener fer - we can shoot the lids off...

Jim, I like to recondition and shave with straight razors. "Razor sharp" is a very tricky thing to achieve and maintain, by hand. My benchmark sharp blade is a cartridge blade made by a Japanese company called "Feather" (http://www.feather.co.jp/eProducts.htm). Those blades will remove skin painlessly, and don't become "razor" sharp until about 2 weeks worth of shaving. It's hard to imagine something too sharp to shave with. I figure it's impossible to get an edge like that by hand. Downright scary.
My traditional honed/stroped blades are the result of 2000 years of shaving tech and are "razor sharp"....meaning they take off hair but not skin (unless it's dull). No nicks or cuts unless you drag the blade longways. Then they will literally remove your head if you aren't careful.

Well, reading through this thread I'm not even totally sure what we're talking about except that it has something to do with sharpening knives. I will not work with dull tools, but I know there are different types of edges you need for different types of work. If you're going to cut meat you will do better if the edge is ragged on a microscopic level. If you strop your knife with a smooth bar of steel you'll have a bur that does the cutting. If you smash a chunk of obsidian or chert, you'll have a rough sharp crystalline edge that will cut. That same edge will not hold up to woodworking chores, one of the final things some people do with a woodworking blade is make one pass with the finest stone, right across the edge. Squares it off a little bit. That actually works better than a razor sharp edge but it isn't a butcher's tool. I'm not sure about what it takes to cut hair, I quit cutting mine in the early 90's when it started moving to the back of head anyway.

That thing about fast healing makes sense to me, one of the old surgeon's tricks from the Civil War days was to cut a slash through a bullet wound, a straight cut heals faster than a hole. Rough edges make sense in the same way, increases the surface area of the cut.

Velocity counts. I was whittling a piece of wood in the early 70's with a razor sharp knife, which slipped. Sent the tip of one finger flying across the room. Fortunately, just a little bit of it, it healed up ok. There was no argument about edge efficiency, it just went sailing away.

JimmyTH

jimmy
quote"
Velocity counts. I was whittling a piece of wood in the early 70's with a razor sharp knife, which slipped. Sent the tip of one finger flying across the room. Fortunately, just a little bit of it, it healed up ok. There was no argument about edge efficiency, it just went sailing away."
_________________________________________________________

lets see - razor sharp - it slipped - it cut a finger tip off.
thank you... Hellooooo
Jim

Velocity counts.

Yeah. With less velocity the tip of your finger might have simply plopped listlessly at your feet rather than flying across the room.

Ok, Jim. We need to agree on a definition of 'sharp'. When I talk about a sharp knife, I'm talking about a good edge made by sharpening with a stone by hand, in fairly short order. I'm not talking about a machined edge that can split atoms. Truely dull knives are dangerous because you need to use excessive force to cut, and may in fact end up breaking or crushing rather than slicing. Do I want my knives as sharp as some specialized tools? No. Do I want them sharp enough to cut, unlike many peoples kitchen knives? You bet! One of the gifts I give my friends is to sharpen their kitchen knives whenever I use their kitchens. Knives should slice otherwise you just have a splitting tool with a short handle.

tcook
I think we agree. I've just been taking my time showing you that you agree with the concept that "sharp enough for the job" is probably the maximum sharpness that any edge should have, for safety reasons, if not for the difficulty of maintaining a "Dryer" edge for instance.

You know exactly the dull that happens to kitchens knifes that get washed a lot. I'll take a butcher knife and run each side over a long steel about twice. After that it sails through zuccini but its still not really sharp. The edge isn't honed smooth, its kinda ragged from a steel. If it cuts you, you may feel the pain and remove the pressure before it hits the bone.

This is what I call a "dull knife" - [relative to SHARP], from Jim's dull knife standard. Sharp enough to cut zuccini and spread butter is all you need for a camp knife unless you expect to clean game.
Jim

Ah the joys of language. No wonder we have so many problems in the world when what I call sharp, you call dull