Jet Boil In Cold Weather???

I have started using a Jet Boil stove and despite its heavier weight I really like it.

I have not yet had a chance to use it in freezing weather. I bought their "4 season" mix canisters. Supposedly they are supposed to be better for cold weather use but I am not sure if I believe it.

Have you used one of these stoves in cold weather? What results did you have?

thanks
Matt

two words - Alpine BOMB!!
Google it, or here's the link:
http://www.ademiller.com/blogs/climbing/2005/12/gear-the-alpine-bomb.html#more-36

Not that this is something that I endorse.
FYI there's a good article on the effects of canister heating on BPL.com

Search back for "canister stove" and "cold" - you'll find things, including some lively discussion.

My personal experience is I have not used the jetboil - although I *have* used their cartridges (and snow peak's, and MSR's) in my snow peak stove. I haven't found much of a difference between MSR, snowpeak, and jetboil cartridges (other than price - the jetboil's are bloody expensive but they are the only brand of 100gram cartridge I can get here!) Some people swear by these things in cold weather - I do not, although it depends on your definition of "cold". I find they work pretty good (if you warm 'em up a bit first in your hands) down to about -5 to -10 centigrade or so (that would be down into the teens for the metric challenged), and make sure you have a good windbreak so the stove heats up the canister. Below that I have a lot of problems with lacklustre performance (and an increased chance of a stuck lindal valve) - So I don't tend to use a canister stove when I really must have a a stove in cold weather below that. If I expect down to freezing and a little below it's fine - make sure you have an insulated base to run it on, and a good windbreak. if I expect a LOT below freezing, and snow melting for water, I take a white gas stove. So.. decide how "cold" you be talkin' about there. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will say one thing for a small jetboil cartridge - they are easier to warm up in a sleeping bag than a bigger one.

I have no personal experience with this, but keep in mind the word BOMB is more than just an acronym.

My guess is an overheated canister would blow apart at the seams first, probably blow the stove off the canister, create a big fireball that would burn anything within a few feet, and spray shrapnel around if the canister fractures.

Perhaps someone here can test one for us and put it on YouTube, and no, I am not volunteering.

Tom D et all

I tried to use the copper coil on a bluet years ago. You need very thick heavy copper wire - maybe rigid number 4. You need a coil around the cannister and an insulater. The insulater will most likely melt around the cannister. I could not make the concept work with doubled number 12 copper wire. I suggest that an easier and no less dangerous and even lighter way would be to use the windscreen to keep heat on the cannister, but to be very careful and remove the windscreen when the stove is apparently warm enough. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Warm water bath is inefficient costing a lot of fuel to keep the fuel warm. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

ANY compressed gas stove will cool the temp of the fuel if the fuel vaporises in the can - and only the coleman extreme or liquid (upside down) feed stoves do not do this. The problems inherant with compressed gas in the cold, unless at high altitude, make it unsuitable for winter use. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well there are other discussions out there of doing this - particularly with stoves like the MSR windpro, which have an external tank and a bit of a generator tube that could pre-heat liquid fuel hitting the stove, instead of depending on having gas hitting it.

For example the guys with the google video for doing this with an MSR windpro:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3717016644346348598

but looks to me like as much or more trouble than just taking a stove that'll burn white gas and you don't have to care how cold the fuel gets (at least on this planet)

The butane canisters are regulated by the DOT-11914 specification to assure safety during transportation which included being heated in the various vehicles and buildings during shipping. http://hazmat.dot.gov/sp_app/special_permits/docs/11000/SP11914.pdf

The containers must not rupture at a pressure of 240 psig and rupture is supposed to be first the bottom end must reverse before rupture. The internal presure developed at 130*F should not exceed 150 psig, so that even if heated to 135*F there is virtually no chance of rupture (except for the situation where the assembly process screws up on that particular can).

(psig= psi gauge rather than absolute psi which would be 14.7 psi higher)

This specification reads, in part,

====================

6. HAZARDOUS MATERIALS (49 CFR § 172.101):
....
Petroleum gases, liquefied
2.1
UN1075

7. SAFETY CONTROL MEASURES:

a. PACKAGING - Prescribed packagings are non-DOT
specification, non-refillable inside containers, with a
water capacity not exceeding 30 cubic inches, and are
constructed in conformance with Dae Ryuk Can Company, Ltd.
drawing PG 405 A 02 and related drawings, or with drawings
PG 405 A 03 or PG 405 A 04 on file with the Office of
Hazardous Materials Special Permits and Approvals (OHMSPA).
Containers conform with DOT Specification 2P
(§ 178.33) except as follows:

§ 178.33-2 Type and size.
(a) * * *
(b) The maximum capacity of containers may not exceed 30
cubic inches. The maximum inside diameter must not exceed
105.5 mm (4.15 inches).
§ 178.33-7 Wall thickness.
(a) The minimum wall thickness must be 0.012 inch.


§ 178.33-8 Tests.
(a) One container out of each lot of 1,000 or less
successively produced must be pressure tested to
destruction. The bottom end of the test container must
reverse prior to any leakage or rupture. The test container
must not burst below 240 psig. Should the test sample fail,
10 additional samples must be taken at random from the lot
and tested as above. If any of the 10 additional samples
fail the test, the lot must be rejected.
Continuation of DOT-SP 11914 (7th Rev.) Page 3
March 7, 2007

§ 178.33-9 Marking.
(a) * * *
(1) "DOT-SP 11914" in lieu of "DOT 2P".
* * *
b. OPERATIONAL CONTROLS - Each container must be filled and
tested in accordance with § 173.304a(d)(3)(ii) except that
the maximum charge pressure may not exceed 60 psig at 70°F,
and the pressure at 130°F may not exceed 150 psig.

==============================================

A few years back my cannister stove did blow up. It is very exciting! Somehow gas leaked and the entire cannister started to burn. Within a minute the whole thing blew up - loud as a grenade, the snowpeak stove on top was never found. Four of us were standing around the stove. Luckily nobody got seriously hurt - a few cuts on legs. The stove was sitting in coarse gravel and we actually got more cuts from flying gravel. After a complete search around our campsite, the only piece we found was the bottom metal ring of the cannister. I suspect the cause was a defective cannister because it was burning from the base.

This happened on 4th of July evening, as we literally were watching the fireworks 6,000 feet below in Lone Pine CA!

If this ever happens, run as fast as you can from the burning cannister and try to get behind a rock or tree. Do not waste time trying to put out the flames. It all happens quite quickly.

Funny you should mention just taking along a white gas stove.

I've been very pleased with my Pocket Rocket - it's lightweight, easy to use, the canisters are convenient, there's no priming and it simmers well (though I rarely simmer; I just boil water.) However, after several years, there are a couple of things that I'm not so thrilled about: it's hard to tell how much usable fuel is left (unless you carry a scale), particularly in colder weather. There's no true windscreen (though I have used the Whisperlite-style foil screen - you just leave it in a semi-circle, rather than connecting the two ends; it does add some weight, though.)

So, lately (especially after using it on a recent trip), I'm starting to flirt with the idea of just carrying my Simmerlite all the time, and dispensing with the canister stove. It will add about a quarter pound to my kitchen. Of course, it does have to be primed; but I always know how much fuel I've got, and I can reduce the weight on a weekend trip by taking only what I need (as opposed to a full cylinder, if that's all I've got or if I'm not sure partial cylinder will last out the trip.) On any trip requiring two cylinders, the extra weight of the stove is pretty well offset due to the empty cylinder weight.

Not quite sure where I'll come down yet, but I've got to admit that the Simmerlite is becoming more attractive all the time. (Of course, if MSR would come out with an alcohol burner...)

I have read far too many stories about these canisters going off when heated to consider the possibility remote. We are not talking about 130F, we are talking about a lot hotter than that.

I don't believe for a minute that these canisters are perfectly safe as you seem to imply when they are used in a manner for which they were not intended or designed. I could be wrong, but since I'm never going to be anywhere near anyone trying to heat up one of these things, it really doesn't matter to me what other people do with them.

While there are many trick etc for a canister to work in cold weather and the JetBoil canister might be a bit better- remember below 0 deg C they freeze up just like water... Also a JetBoil is bomber as hec... but that is beside the point... for the same price an MSR simmerlite or whisper lite uses liquid fuel, is lighter, and cooks more evenly. If you just want a really light weight stove get a pocket rocket or a Snow Peak- but honestly the jet boil seems like a waste of money imo.
however, to answer your question- I would be quite skeptical of any tricks to get a canister to work below 0 deg C.