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#147470 - 03/07/11 12:55 PM mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my!
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I was lucky enough to get paid to do field work in south west Montana in the 80's. I got to spend quite a bit of time in the backcountry there and my memories are very positive. But as I try to remember details (so as to prep for my upcomming Wind River trip), I am remembering tons of mosquitos, and even worse on occasion the deer and horse flys. Those things would bite through multiple layers of shirts as well as blue jeans. So my question is; are the newer synthetic materials tight enough to keep these things from taking chunks out of me? Back in the 80's it was all cotton or wool.

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#147483 - 03/07/11 07:54 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
First off it does not get as hot in the Winds as in the Sierra so tighter weave material too hot for the Sierra is fine. I rely more on having my clothing loose, so there is air space between the clothing and my skin. I have had good luck with technical climbing pants (Schoeller)but I buy them one size larger. I wear over-sized nylon long sleeve hiking shirts (like Columbia). I have not tried the "bug-off" clothing so cannot comment. I avoid skin-tight T-shirts. I also wear long gaiters (pack cloth weight nylon) all the time so flies cannot get up my pant legs. Since there are a lot of dewey mornings, they also keep my legs dry. I never go any trip without a head net. A loose wind shirt over your hiking shirt also helps. I bring a pair of canvas cotton garden gloves to keep mosquitoes off the back of my hands and also keep hands from getting sunburned and overly dry.

Mosquito season in the Rockies is shorter but can be more intense than in the Sierra. I really have not had a lot of problems with horse flies- but then I do a lot of off-trail where there are not many horse flies.



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#147491 - 03/07/11 10:03 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: wandering_daisy]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
The gaiter and the cotten garden glove tips are great. I am also going to make sure I bring long pants...but I am going to have to go shopping for that.

It's funny how your memory works. Mine seems to slowly come back over a few days when I am really contemplating a topic. Right now I am thinking the deer flys were the worst and that this always occured in the forest/meadow. So maybe we were next to where they were running cattle when we had these episodes and that was what was attracting the deer and horse flys. I distinctly remember the <1cm jet shaped flys being particularly obnoxios.

I also remember mapping Pikes Peak (the Other Pikes Peak (Flint Creek Range) and what you are thinking is what my folks said when I told them we did Pikes Peak). It gets a little above 9000ft or so and we were mapping the geology by what the fallen tree roots had ripped up. So we are in moderately thick lodgpole forest just covered in a large cloud of mosquitos. After about an hour of going up in this miserableness, we just literally snapped and ran towards the cirque on the right. When we got to the edge, there was this beautiful breeze blowing in our faces; we are standing at the edge of an 800ft drop. When we turned around to look back at the forest, it looked like it was in constant motion; just one large mass of writhing mosquitos. I will never forget that sight as that is the most mosquitos I have personally ever seen. We stayed on the edge of the cirque the rest of the day where there was relatively few of these suckers. This would have been near the middle of the trip, maybe mid to late July. There was still snowpack at around 9000ft.


Edited by skcreidc (03/07/11 10:10 PM)

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#147495 - 03/07/11 11:43 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Ditto on the permethryn-treated clothing, they're great!

Light gloves, etc. sound like a good idea too. I don't run into horse and deerflies much in the Sierra, but used to in the Cascades. Nothing like losing a quarter-pound of flesh per bite!
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#147542 - 03/08/11 11:26 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: Rick_D]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
From W_D's comments, it sounds like the Winds don't have deer flys. Fine by me.

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#147545 - 03/09/11 06:03 AM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
GrumpyGord Online   content
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 945
Loc: Michigan
I used to have a problem here in Michigan with horse flies but since I started to wear a wide brimmed OR Seattle Sombrero I have not had a problem. Horse flies go away as soon as you stop moving. I guess that gives the mosquitoes and black flies their chance at your hide. smile

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#147612 - 03/10/11 03:33 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
The item that works best for me, is to bring along one of those irristiable people - of which my husband is one. For the most part if he is around, mosquitoes and deer flies prefer him over me. Course, it does mean he is miserable, which isn't good. But oh so much easier to have sympathy when you yourself aren't miserable crazy

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#147620 - 03/10/11 07:00 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: Heather-ak]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Although my Wind Rivers experience is small compared to W-D's, I've been chomped on by both horseflies and deerflies there. It does make a difference if you're well away from trails getting frequent horse use! A warm sunny day with no wind along the Fremont Trail is time to put on medieval armor, or at least a good wind shirt!

Permethrin works on ticks and mosquitoes, but not biting flies. They bite right through my permethrin-sprayed shirt as though it were an appetizer!

I also remember the black flies in June in northern Michigan! While visiting there, one afternoon I ended up putting Hysson in the car, blowing out the flies, then closing up the car and driving around the area running the air conditioner until dark. We got up before daylight the next morning and got out of there (Porcupine Mts.) before the flies showed up!

Unfortunately, I'm one of those people whom Heather likes to bring along on trips!


Edited by OregonMouse (03/10/11 07:01 PM)
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#147624 - 03/10/11 08:42 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: Heather-ak]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Heather
I have a couple of friends like that and a few days before we go camping I try to feed them bananas so they smell really sweet.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#147625 - 03/10/11 08:46 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: OregonMouse]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
OM- if Heather took both of us she would not have a fly, tick or mosquito to deal with! I have had both deer flies and horse flies in the Wind Rivers. But I spend little time on horse trails and a lot of time above timber. Wind is the best repellant. And if you stay high you will usually have a wind. Flies are also like mosquitoes- if you stay clean and cool it helps a bit. Body armor - that is solution! I used to wear thick, tight weave army surplus wool pants (classic 60's and 70's clothing)and never had a problem. Flies are most common late season. First the ticks get you in the spring lower elevations- very prevelent in sage brush (the large red Rocky Mountain ticks,not the small black California coastal kind), then the skeeters get you (July), then the flies get you (late August- very bad in Sept). Does make you wonder why we backpack at all! Honestly, the worst mosquitoes I have encountered were in the Sierra and the worst flies in New Hamshire and the worst ticks in Idaho.

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#147631 - 03/10/11 09:29 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: Heather-ak]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Heather, unfortunatly my wife is not going to come with me on this one otherwise I wouldn't have to worry about it. I tend to eat a LOT of garlic...wonder if that helps. Come to think of it, my wifes mom once told her that she ate too much garlic and would never find a husband (well she married someone who eats even more). I guess that rules out the garlic thing.

Sorry, but I have a lot of bug stories and this is a short one. Have you ever seen Wallace and Gromit in "The Wrong Trowsers"? I think there is a part where Wallace is running like a madman arms flaying wildly. Picture a long meadow section on trail at around 7500 ft around mid July in a wet year in the Sierra Nevada. My son is up ahead with his pack on running like a madman arms flaying wildly, a cloud of mosquitos following him. You probably had to be there but I still laugh thinking about it he looked so comical.


Edited by skcreidc (03/10/11 09:43 PM)
Edit Reason: longwinded

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#147639 - 03/10/11 10:59 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By skcreidc
Picture a long meadow section on trail at around 7500 ft around mid July in a wet year in the Sierra Nevada. My son is up ahead with his pack on running like a madman arms flaying wildly, a cloud of mosquitos following him. You probably had to be there but I still laugh thinking about it he looked so comical.


Picture someone with a bowl of chowder trying to flail, eat and run at top speed from a bunch of meat bees, and that would have been me in Yosemite trying not to let the bees get my dinner.

I have since mastered the art of pulling it all up into my headnet with me and eating in relative safety. (Meat bees, aka wasps, will really bite you!)
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#147654 - 03/11/11 12:22 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
I suspect we've all experienced the "perfect bug storm" from time to time, and the hard bit is keeping your sanity during it--I can do it sometimes and fail completely other times.

Best story I've heard is a friend of the family who went on a year-long cross-Arctic adventure. At peak mosquito season they'd each have their own skeeter cloud in camp. The trick was to pass another camper closely enough to hand off your cloud to him and scamper off. Then you could have a few minutes of peace.

Evidently they all got quite good at it.

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#147667 - 03/11/11 10:48 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: Rick_D]
vtflyfish Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 1
There is no greater torture than being under a canoe on a long portage in the arctic. I've done several long trips in the Winds (no comparison to W-D) and the blood loss doesn't compare to the Canadian North. I agree that cleanliness helps. So does good repellent applied liberally...

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#147668 - 03/11/11 11:13 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
BradMT Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 151
Where in SW Montana?
_________________________
There Is No Bad Weather, Just Bad Clothing...

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#147670 - 03/12/11 08:10 AM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: BradMT]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
I was based in two locals while I was there; the Deer Lodge KOA, and just outside of Philipsburg over the mountains to the west. I was there for months; even opened a bank account in Deer Lodge. In the Bitterroots along the Idaho border, we got dropped off/picked up by helicopter to map the ridge tops. I really liked that area as it is heavily glaciated and rugged with very dense lodgepole pine forest and lots of berries in the latter summer. But I also worked areas roughly between Butte, Helena, and Missoula. One of the guys was working on the thrust fault mechanics in the Flint Creek Range so I also spent a fair amount of time there too. Overniters were pretty common in the mountains. But really, we were covering the whole area. We were completing the mapping of the Butte 1x2 degree sheet. I had to ask permission to go on ranch land so I met a lot of suspicious people carrying the guns they normally keep in their vehicles. I am sure I looked out of place to them.


Edited by skcreidc (03/12/11 08:15 AM)

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#147671 - 03/12/11 09:05 AM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: skcreidc]
BradMT Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 151
Nice.

I work down at the South end of the Madison Valley bordering a Wilderness Area just up the road from Quake Lake. You may be interested to know there's a Wolverine Survey underway in this part of Montana... kind of cool!

I can deal with mosquitoes, though they're worst in June/July. It's the Horse Fly's and Deer Fly's that are absolutely brutal. Deer Fly season is usually limited to about two weeks at most.

Can't say about clothing saturated with chemicals, but mosquitoes go right through synthetics.

This will be another bad mosquito year in the backcountry due to excellent moisture.

At the end of the day, compared to northern New England, our bugs are pretty tame.

_________________________
There Is No Bad Weather, Just Bad Clothing...

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#147672 - 03/12/11 10:10 AM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: vtflyfish]
GDeadphans Offline
member

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 382
Loc: Maine/New Jersey
Originally Posted By vtflyfish
There is no greater torture than being under a canoe on a long portage in the arctic. I've done several long trips in the Winds (no comparison to W-D) and the blood loss doesn't compare to the Canadian North. I agree that cleanliness helps. So does good repellent applied liberally...


I have actually found the opposite to be effective. The dirtier and smellier I am, the more natural and disgusting my scent, the less mosquitoes. smirk

Black fly season! WOOO! We breed 'em you feed 'em!
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"To me, hammocking is relaxing, laying, swaying. A steady slow morphine drip without the risk of renal failure." - Dale Gribbel

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#147681 - 03/12/11 07:10 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: GDeadphans]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada


Speaking from someone who has suffered through the clouds of mosquitoes and blackflies you get in the canadian north, I can't really tell (clean versus not) - I think really clean I get eaten alive, but after a bit of deet, and a bit of woodsmoke I find I do much better. if I'm in blackfly country in june/july I will actually make a bit of a smoke smudge with green black spruce boughs and take a "smoke bath" - it's not like being dirty, but the smoke seasons you up a bit and keeps some of 'em off. well, that and DEET.

I find once they are really really bad the biggest thing I want is a headnet - I can keep 'em from biting me with deet and smoke and clothing, but I still have to breathe, and when it's bad up here they will literally drive you crazy even without biting they are so thick.

I *always* have a small headnet in my ditty bag. it weighs nothing and when I need it I *really* need it.
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#147686 - 03/12/11 08:19 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: phat]
Joshuatree Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 62
Loc: Wisconsin
I spent a year living up in northern wisconsin and with all the lakes, swamps, and small creeks it was a breeding ground. The mosquitos got so bad in spring and early summer you could hear them from inside the house. The early and late season buggers left a welt as big as a quater and they weren't shy or sneaky about biting. But I think the No see ums are the worst of the lot, bug repellant is just extra seasoning to them they swarm and attack in mass anytime you stop moving. If your trying to eat or drink you'll end up spitting them out by the hundreds, while hundreds more attack your ears, eyes and fly up your nose. I've done flyin trips the Canadian bush, been out to montana, wyoming and have lived in Alabama where the bugs get big enough to can carry off a good sized child, and I think the northern forests have some of the worst blood suckers I've found. Although they've done studies on some of the small islands in the florida keys and they figured if your out unprotected at night you could get enough bites to die from blood loss.

I've gotten used to the skeeters they seem to leave me alone for the most part, but I have yet to figure out how to get rid of the no see ums beyond a head net and a smokey fire.

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#148313 - 03/25/11 12:40 AM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: GDeadphans]
Al Paca Offline
member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Oakland, CA
Originally Posted By GDeadphans

I have actually found the opposite to be effective. The dirtier and smellier I am, the more natural and disgusting my scent, the less mosquitoes. smirk


Not the case w/ sand flies.
The more you smell the more they swarm. New Zealand has both. If you hate mosquitos w/ a passion and haven't got to meet the sand fly yet, you'll surely re-think that hatred.

Makes sense why kiwi's don't use tents... They build huts.

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#148488 - 03/27/11 06:20 PM Re: mosquitos, deer flys, and horse flys oh my! [Re: phat]
JPete Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Eastern Ontario
Phat, I live near the Algonquin and the Ottawa
Valley lumbering area. Local lore has it the lumberjacks came out of the woods in blackfly season for fear they would lose their minds. best, jcp

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