"Because of the new strategic alliance with AllTrails, the current products and services offered on topo.com will be discontinued. For the next 30 days, topo.com will continue to be functional. After that time, users will be redirected to alltrails.com."

If you have map credits, or maps you've bought there, you have 30 days to download them, so don't dawdle.

In my own humble opinion National Geographic should have put more effort into their "TOPO!" software. For me, this means yet another expensive software tool I've invested in will soon be obsolete. While they don't say it the email I received and quoted above, I've been in this game long enough to know that TOPO! is now unofficially a dead product.

Luckily, I've been transitioning to Garmin's BaseCamp and opensource maps, and for exactly this reason. I knew when they started "Topo.com" that the TOPO! software was on it's way out. But the truth is that site never lived up to it's potential or the hype NG promoted it with and they should have done a lot more with both products.

NG and AllTrails are now going to "monetize" all that info on trails that users have graciously submitted for free to them. I understand the need to make money, but there are many ways to do that without leaving your current user base high and dry.

I think I'll submit any trail info I have to an opensource aggregator instead.

I have Topo.com and still have a credit for 24 quads. I have asked for a refund of my money. They are supposed to be good for 24 months from the date of purchase. They can't just change that.

It's worth it to me to take them to small claims court for a refund, plus charges for legal research.

Depending on how they were incorporated, even if you win your judgement in small claims court, you may be just another unsecured creditor and have a hard time collecting it. Good luck.

The 30 day notice is BS. It doesn't cost that much to keep that site running, so I don't understand why they can't give you a year to transition out and/or let you apply your remaining credits to the "Premium Membership" they're partnering up with at AllTrails.

This is a completely stupid move on their part. They've been disconnected with their user base from the git-go, and this is not going to go over as well as they expect.

Bill,

Did you personally get that email or did you read it on another site?

I just found it in my spam folder. Tomorrow I'm calling the State Attorney General. They are headquartered in my state.

I got the email this morning at 11:04am cst. I've been on their mailing list since the Topo Explorer web site was in beta testing, and I've been using their TOPO! software since a few years before that.

I'd fill out a complaint too if I were you. There is no way you can get what you've paid for because the entire concept of buying map credits was so you could get the maps you wanted when you wanted them. NG has been around so long, and a lot of their reputation and attraction to their products has always been their maps, so they'd be about the last map provider you'd expect to not deliver what they promised.

Keep me posted, and if there's anything I can do let me know.

Thank goodness, I already downloaded the quads I paid for.

I also picked up a bargain basement copy of the California Explorer - that won't require upkeep, at least. Same old USGS map to overlay GPS tracks on.

What really ticks me off is the are still selling it at Topo.com sucking more people into it.

So what does this really mean. I have two sets- the Wyoming and California sets. I could care less about any fancy upgrades or gizmos. I thought the software I have is independent of the internet and they will still work as a stand alone on my computer. Am I wrong? Does it just mean if I want any more state topo sets I had better buy them now? I just got a new computer so reinstalled TOPO and it asked for my serial number. So does this mean if I want to load it on another computer in the future, it would not work?

I have the Oregon, Washington and Wyoming software packages. I've basically just used them to print out maps of where I'm going; I don't do any fancy tracking. Like w_d, I don't care about upgrades and gizmos! For me, the main benefit is that I don't have to carry 3-4 big maps when my trip is located in an area that needs a small area from each of several maps. For some reason (perhaps Murphy?), this used to happen quite frequently before I bought the software, and the hassle of reassembling cut-up maps (to save bulk, more than weight) is considerable. For Oregon and Washington, I've already saved the purchase price (bought on sale or with coupons) in not having to buy the paper maps.

I just hope the software will transfer to future computers, or I'll be stuck--depending on which gives out first, my hiking legs or my computer!

The Google shopping feature reveals that there are still lots of TOPO! state software packages out there, some at attractive prices. I wouldn't wait too long, though!

As near as I can tell, the CD's won't be affected. I have Colorado and that won't be affected.

You could also go to Topo.com and run the program online. The program there had some differences which were handy. If I wanted to go hike a trail in a nearby state, I didn't have to buy the whole package. Just the quads I need.

What frosts me is NG just decided to unilaterally negate the value of my purchase. They appear to have themselves covered legally, but ethically their ass is bare. They can step on little people just because they are big. It seems their loyalty to their customer has the quality of Newt Gingrich's weddding vows.

Oh well, I better take a hike tomorrow or I'll get really upset.

If you need an update to run it on your computer, download and save the latest version now...

From a Seattle-area forum--check used bookstores in your area for used TOPO! software. That might not work if you live in an area where there is little hiking going on.

I really don't care about updates because I actually want to see the older versions of trails--I have a big interest in old, discontinued trails, of which there are a rapidly increasing number thanks to continued reductions in USFS budgets plus the move to decommision roads that lead to those trails.

The updates of the software, not the maps. I could not operate the California state software on the deskstop or on the laptop (Windows XP and Vista) until I downloaded an update. Would not come up at all.... No software, no maps. If you pick up a discounted software it might be an older version that does not work for you at all, until you update it.

W_D, your TOPO! software will keep working on your computer as it is. NG has two different products with a very similar name:

TOPO! (what you and I have)
TOPO Explorer (what Gershon has)

What I expect to happen is that NG will not issue anymore upgrades to the TOPO! software and discontinue it in a few years altogether. It's been a long time since they've issued any upgrades as it is for that software, that's a pretty reliable indicator of what to expect.

When that happens it will no longer be available for newer computers, your software will still work on your current computer, but they won't sell the maps for it anymore either.

I kept a crappy computer around just to run Garmin's Mapsource software for several years. During that time I nagged Garmin often to make a Mac version of the software and to make their GPS's and mapping software to work with opensource (public domain) maps. A few years ago they finally did, but it wouldn't run on my old Mac. Works great on my new(er) "Mac Mini" now though.

Garmin's "Basecamp" software is pretty good, and you can get a bunch of free maps for it now at http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/. Actually, the maps there are a lot better than the NG TOPO! maps. They have topos with 10ft lines, public land boundaries, trails, roads, and other "layers" of data, and the data is more current.

You have to learn how to use it, which is always a pain, but at least you don't have to pay for it. And, really, we shouldn't have to pay for it a lot of it because it's all based on government data which we've all paid to collect, or data provided for free by people who went out and collected it themselves.

Companies can add value to that data, and sometimes that's worth paying for, but NG was kind of soaking us for the value they added with the TOPO! software. You can get all those quad maps for free at http://libremap.org/.

The beauty of the web based NG TOPO Explorer software was you could purchase just the quads you wanted for a buck apiece and download them when you wanted them, and it had most of the same tools that the TOPO! software does, like tools to make waypoints and routes, and they were free.

The catch was you had to prepay for a minimum number of maps. $25 got you 25 "Map Credits" (quads you could download when you wanted to). You could buy as many Map Credits as you wanted and use them when you wanted. Since it was NG, no one would have ever thought they'd just up and shut down the website with only 30 days notice and leave everyone who still had "Map Credits" out to dry, but that is exactly what they did.

Gershon's only choice is to go download a bunch of maps he may, or may not, want or ever use, and he has 28 days left to do it.

What NG could have done is give 90 days notice and double everyone's map credits. It wouldn't have cost them a dime more than what they did, and people wouldn't have felt they got left completely high and dry.

I found you can get free topo maps here.

http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/(ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2)/.do

Not great for features, but they are there.

It is a very nice post, I know.

For me, the feature I really need is the route drawing tool where I can easily draw any route line and it gives a profile with mileage and elevation gains and losses. Just getting a free scanned map is not sufficient. I also like to be able to get coordinates off points, and add text, symbols. I also like the state coverage. I use TOPO to search for areas that I may want to go to. TOPO, for me, is better than a good novel to entertain me on those cold winter days! I assume that some other company will pick up the ball and offer the same features. It is although quite annoying to think that my TOPO program will soon be useless. Seems that this is typical of compter technology nowadays- come and go. Always have to "upgrade" your initial investment. We certainly live in a "throw-away" society.

Well, I'm glad I have Topo Explorer! Colorado on CD. It has all the maps for the state and I'm not likely to go elsewhere using topo maps.

One of the problems was likely the bad reviews on Amazon. The programs are much more powerful than people give them credit for. And I like being able to print a map for one time use. If people just downloaded the PDF help file or just played with the menu, things the reviews would likely have been better.

Personally, I didn't see a person with a map out all summer. On the Colorado Trail, they had the databook, but no maps. I wonder how many people actually use one?

I have the CD's for the states that I am likely to hike in and they work just fine for the my use. I layout a route, print individual maps for desired sections and load the route into my GPS. The only problem I have had is that TOPO would not recognize my new GPS so I had to upgrade the basic program to load to my GPS. This is fine at this point but in the time I have used it we have had GPS units which interface through parallel, serial and USB ports. What happens when the next generation of GPS units uses a new WhizBang port and TOPO State is no longer supported?

It's likely you will be able to export it to your hard drive as a .gpx file and then use GPSBabel to put it on your GPS.