Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#155112 - 09/27/11 12:27 AM Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise!
SteveOhh Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 2
So after hanging out on this site for the last few days, I'm feeling like I've recently made some purchasing mistakes. I'm 40 years old, and just now planning on getting into doing some 1-3 day trips, possibly longer eventually. However, I know that the majority of the time, I'll most likely end up driving out to the AT(I'm in the DC area), hiking during the day, setting up camp for the night, and then returning back to the car the following day at some point. I'll probably do the overnighters, and 2 nighters mainly. I do a lot of other things outdoors, but have never really been introduced to backpacking until just recently.

I just recently purchased the following gear:

-Gregory Baltoro 65 pack-really liked the adjustability of the bag, and the way it sat on my back with weight in it. I'm only about 140lbs, and the way it allowed the weight to kind of sit more on my hips felt more comfortable, at least to me. The bag just felt good, but what do I know!

-Golite Eden 2 tent-really wanted a 2 person tent, and something rather roomy as I definitely plan on having a friend generally join me. It sets up rather quickly as well, and the quality seems very impressive.

-Big Agnes Grouse Mountain 15deg down bag-wanted something that would allow me to do hikes/trip as far into the fall/beginning of winter as possible. I don't have any plans on doing overnighters in the dead of winter, at least not yet.

So, those are my Big 3 purchases. One very good reason the above items were purchased is because I can purchase anything from those brands, as well as Marmot, Wenger and Mountainsmith, through work at a substantial discount off of retail. So when shopping, I limited my research to those companies. I usually wouldn't do that with gear, but because this was new for me I figured why not and save some money while I was at it.

I now feel that the above items are probably "more" than what I really need. I'm now realistically trying to figure out everything I would potentially need for what I want to do and feel that the Baltoro is too much pack, in both size and weight. I bought the Baltoro because I figured it would be better to have too much room, versus too little.....probably not the best philosophy. The Marmot bag was a great value, but seems like it may be a bit heavy at 3lbs. And the Eden tent at 5lbs is definitely not the lightest of 2p tents.

Total weight for the above three items is about 13.5lbs. I just ordered a Crux lite stove kit, which seems rather nice, and have a Big Agnes insulated pad as well(16oz version). I'm working on putting together the rest of my essentials at this time, which this site has provided tons of help with, so thank you:)

My pack, bag, and tent, are all brand new, still with tags on them. I could actually return/exchange the pack and bag as it was just purchased, and the tent I could probably sell on CL and get back what I paid for it(around $250/retails for $425 I believe). I guess I'm just looking to see what some of you folks may think. Does what I have seem totally overkill for what I plan on doing? I'm not opposed to returning what I have and exchanging it for something that would seem more appropriate, but I guess I really don't know what would be appropriate at this point:/ I'm thinking the Baltoro bag is probably the item that I could go smaller and lighter with, especially considering what I'm mainly going to be doing.

I'm just feeling a bit uneasy now with my purchases, thanks to you weight weenies:) It's just making me think that my set up is going to be way too heavy for what I plan on doing. Based on the above brands I mentioned, would you recommend a different pack/bag/tent? Any thoughts? And I apologize for sounding so confused, concerned, etc! Maybe I should just stop being concerned and get out and use the stuff I already have!

Top
#155113 - 09/27/11 01:07 AM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: SteveOhh]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I'm not that familiar with those 3 pieces of gear, but from what I see, the only thing I would question is the pack. My pack is about that size, but lighter, my bag is a slightly warmer bag (-5C, which is +12F) and my tent is a winter tent. A +15 bag is not a "dead of winter" bag anyway. The brands are all good brands. If the pack is comfortable, that is the most important thing about it, but it is heavy compared to many others. A two person tent is fine for most use. I solo in my two person tent in winter because I like the extra room. The Eden looks like a winter tent to me, but it doesn't weigh all that much for a heavy weather tent.

You may be carrying a bit of extra weight according to some people, but if you got a great deal on the stuff, a few extra ounces is not that big a deal in my book. I weigh about what you do, but I have been pulling my gear on a sled in winter, so I don't notice the weight as much.

Could you get lighter gear? Yes, and from the manufacturers you list, but you could have made some worse choices. I'm sure you'll hear more from the true ultralighters (which I am not), so take their counsel as well.

_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

Top
#155116 - 09/27/11 07:22 AM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: TomD]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I fully agree with Tom. Unless you go to a discount place like WallyWorld, or a general sporting goods store, it's really pretty hard to find bad gear nowadays. Yes, your gear could be lighter - but I'd say your Crux stove purchase indicates that you know that already.

I'm not familiar with the specific items you mention, but 5 pounds isn't hateful for a two-person tent; when the other person goes with you, make him/her carry part or all of it while you carry the kitchen, filter, and other shared gear.

Never buy a pack just because it's lighter. You hit the important thing in your post: you bought it because it felt the most comfortable on you, and put the weight where it needed to be. I don't know how large it is (but judging from your description, I'd guess 60 or 70 liters?), but you may need the space to carry the extra bulk of a two-person tent and synthetic bag (if your bag is synthetic - again, not familiar with it.) Just to put your mind at ease, take your other gear, plus a bag of food and a liter of water, and go back to the store. Load up lighter and/or smaller Gregory packs - I'm thinking maybe the Z-series? - and see how well they carry. If you like the carry of those lighter packs, then by all means make the switch. But if you don't? Stay with the Baltoro. (I use a 3+ pound Osprey Kestrel to carry a load that is usually 20 pounds total. Is that heavier than necessary? Probably - but the extra pound or so pays for itself in comfort and convenience.)

You indicate that you're probably going to the AT in some fall to early winter conditions. I'd keep the sleeping bag - you'll eventually wind up with a summer and fall bag anyhow, so might as well keep the winter one you've got. You'll eventually add a 30 or 40 degree bag for warmer weather.

The only caveat on the sleeping bag is whether you're a side sleeper. I use Western Mountaineering bags, but my local shop carries BA bags, and as I understand it the pad fits into an uninsulated sleeve on the bottom of the bag. The local clerks say this means you can't roll the bag with you, so if you're a side sleeper, you end up with your face buried in the side of the hood and your ear sticking out the face hole. Try this out, and if it causes a problem, consider trading the bag for a Marmot bag, which you can roll with you to sleep on your side. (I used Marmot's "Elements" bags - Hydrogen and Helium - before switching to WM, and found them to be excellent: light, warm, and enough girth.)

The important thing, for now, is to take your new gear and get some trail miles on it. If you later decide, based on your own individual needs, preferences and, yes, idiosyncrasies, that you want to replace it (to go lighter, or get different feature sets, or whatever reason), then pass your old gear along to someone else who's just getting started.

And, by the way, just because most of us prefer to pack as lightly as possible doesn't mean you're required to. Besides, most of our weight savings come from tinkering with techcnique, not just buying lighter stuff. But you can start asking those questions after you've got a trip or two under your belt. smile

Top
#155117 - 09/27/11 07:23 AM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: SteveOhh]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By SteveOhh
However, I know that the majority of the time, I'll most likely end up driving out to the AT(I'm in the DC area), hiking during the day, setting up camp for the night, and then returning back to the car the following day at some point. I'll probably do the overnighters, and 2 nighters mainly. I do a lot of other things outdoors, but have never really been introduced to backpacking until just recently.

I just recently purchased the following gear:



I would think you'd be fine, but I am not certain what night time lows you are starting out in. The real criteria you should be using is the range of conditions you can expect where you are going, and since I'm not familiar with that area I'm no help there.

The Big Agnes insulated air core is probably good to about freezing, lower if you add a CCF to it. The bag I am unfamiliar with. However, consider that at colder temps, if you don't turn out to be a warmblooded individual (all these things are relative, comfort levels vary), having the sort of bag where the pad is inserted into the sleeve will mean it's not going to be possible to wrap up in the bag as it would with the more standard bag-on-top, unattached pad combo. If the bag is not close fitting to your body, you'll be rolling around in an air space which your body heat will have to keep warm, so the colder you go, the more work your body has to do at night to keep that air warm. This probably won't matter much until you are approaching the advertised limit of the bag, which may or may not be accurate for you. 600 fp down explains the weight of the bag... perhaps not the best quality down out there, but should be warm enough for your purposes.

The gear will work, no doubt, but is a bit heavier than it needs to be, as you say. If you got a good bargain on it, use it for a while - if you at some point want to cut the weight and have the money, and really enjoy the backpacking to the point that you can justify the cost (or not, some people need no justification) a Lightheart 2 person tent (or Zpacks, or Tarptent) will cut the weight of that item. Higher quality down bags like Western Mountaineering or the 800+ fp Marmot bags can trim some weight off the sleeping bag. And the Gregory, once you've reduced the bulk and weight of the rest of the gear, could easily be replaced by some of the lighter weight packs - not frameless, but not built like a Mac truck either.

But that's all money you don't have to spend yet - and the gear you have would likely sell for a good price used, if you don't beat it up a bunch. I often recommend rental gear to people and that's not light either. It gets you out on a short easy overnight to do the important work of testing yourself, seeing how comfortable you are with backpacking, and having a more bombproof tent while you are doing this is not a bad thing; some of the lighter shelters take some skill in some environments to set up in weather.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#155120 - 09/27/11 07:35 AM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: SteveOhh]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
The previous posters have rendered superb advice, and all I can say is that I have retained some of my heavier gear, especially packs, because they carry well and sometimes you might have to carry heavier loads -no way around it. For packs especially, the comfort and fit are far more important than just the weight.

Top
#155133 - 09/27/11 12:28 PM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: oldranger]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I would say, you have a good start. Now, get out there and hike. Take lots of pictures, and post trip reports for us to see. smile You will figure it out. Good luck.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#155139 - 09/27/11 01:02 PM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: lori]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I'd second the rating of the BA Insulated Air Core pad being about 30. I took one out on a night that fell to around 20, and could feel the cold seeping through the pad around 35. (I'm not sure that cold seeps up, but since this isn't a physics lesson - yet smile - we'll let it stand as is.) If you're taking it into below-freezing, just buy an inexpensive closed cell pad and put it under the BA pad, and you should be fine. (I spent a winter night on packed snow with a Z-lite pad under a NeoAir, and stayed warm down to zero - in a twenty degree bag, with all my clothing on.)

Being from Ohio, I do hike in similar conditions to yours, and have spent some time along the Virginia portions of the AT. You can reliably subtract 10 degrees from the lowland forecasts to get an idea what the temperatures in the uplands will be - and allow another 5 ot 10, just for good measure. From the middle of April through the middle of September, a thirty degree bag is plenty (maybe too much in July and August), but you can always unzip it fully and use it like a blanket. The rest of the year, a 20 degree bag will usually be nice to have.

Top
#155140 - 09/27/11 01:05 PM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: SteveOhh]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Most people so far have said your gear is fine and stick with it.... and that's true, but I will take a different approach. Since you have the opportunity now to get the gear that's best for you, now is the time to get what you want.

Backpack: Fit is most important. How it feels on your back with your gear is primary. Second is how the pack fits your gear. Is your pack too big.... I'm not sure until you get the rest of your gear. If you want to get the right pack (and don't mind the extra effort) return the pack now, get the rest of your gear, then buy the pack that fits you comfortably and fits your gear. I think it is a better idea to get the pack that fits what you plan on doing now and think about a bigger pack if yo plan on a longer trip in the future.

Tent: 5lbs is a bit heavy for a two-person tent. You can get a Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 at 2 lbs 2 oz or a copper spur ul2 for 3lbs 6 oz. Both are 2 person tents and a significant weight savings. A lighter tent will be a bit flimsier, but these are commercially produced tents so they should hold up pretty well.

Sleeping bag: You could save about a pound off your bag weight by switching to the BA Mystic SL. It is also a 15°F bag, but it costs more. Some people complain the BA bags are colder than their rating do to the issues described by Glenn. Since you sound like a smaller person, it is something to consider. You might want to look at Marmot bags. A top of the line 15°F bag would be the Plasma 15. Like packs, bags should fit you. So you should try them on if you can. Golite has some great bags and quilts too. Definitely worth checking out.

Lastly don't spend so much time nit-picking your gear that you forget to get out there and use it!


Edited by BZH (09/27/11 01:07 PM)

Top
#155144 - 09/27/11 01:46 PM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: BZH]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
One very, very minor quibble with BZH on tents. I've seen the Fly Creek 2 in action, since a friend has one. He says it's a wonderful one-person tent, but he'd be real hesitant about sharing it with a second person - unless he was very, very comfortable about getting up close and personal with his tent mate. (He also quickly clarified that he and I would never share his tent, as if I needed that clarification!) I recently acquired an MSR Carbon Reflex 2; I haven't had the chance to set it up, but I'd bet I wouldn't want to share it with another adult (I didn't get it to use as a 2-person tent, but to use as a winter tent, when extra space is nice to have. I'm also thinking it might be nice if my 7 or 10 year old granddaughter wanted to go car camping some visit.)

So, if you do decide to change to a two-person "ultralight" tent, make sure you and another person actually climb in it before you buy it. Calling a tent "2-person" doesn't make it one. For what it's worth, this is nothing new, nor do I think companies are deliberately trying to mislead people. I remember when the Clip Flashlight 2 came out - same complaint that if you weren't betrothed when you went into the tent, you were when you came out. (I cleaned the language up a bit.) I think it's a case where two "standard" people, lying motionless in the tent without sleeping bags or other gear, will fit nicely - the inadequacy arises when those people refuse to lie motionless and want to move around.

Not trying to put you off of the two tents BZH recommended; both are excellent products. Just make sure the two people who are likely to use it are comfortable in it.

Top
#155153 - 09/27/11 04:50 PM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: Glenn]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Good point Glenn... many smaller manufacturers seem to size tents such that you can actually fit the number of people advertised in them. Most of the larger manufacturers use a consistent sizing where you have have to subtract one from the advertised number to determine how many people you would want to stick in there.

Case in point it looks like the Golite Eden 2 has 39 sq ft of floor space with 12 sq. ft in the vestibule. That is considerably larger than the Fly Creek 2 and matches almost exactly with the Fly Creek 3 (39/12.5 sq ft). Lay out is important and I couldn't quickly locate the layout of the Eden 2 but it looks like a rectangle. The BA is sized wider at the top and narrower at the bottom. Either way, it looks like the BA Fly Creek 3 is a better comparison tent at 3 lbs 3 oz (still saving you almost 2 lbs).

Top
#155195 - 09/28/11 01:23 PM Re: Newbie Concerned about my new gear...need advise! [Re: SteveOhh]
SteveOhh Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 2
Wow! Thanks for everyone's replies and input! After reading through your comments and suggestions I think I'm going to stick with what I have and just get out and use it, and figure out what works and doesn't work for my personal tastes.

I am definitely thinking the Baltoro 65 bag is going to be a bit too much bag for what I'll primarily be doing, so I am actually looking at some slightly smaller, much lighter packs. Unfortunately, I found out that I can't return or exchange the Baltoro(Pro Deal stipulations!) but that's no biggie. I'll keep it, use it, and see how I like it.

However, I am looking at the Golite Jam pack, which is a bit smaller, and I think would be perfect if I decide to throw together a lighter, more of a summer setup, with just a 1p tent. Not that the money is really an issue, but I can pick up that Jam pack for $75, so kind of hard to beat it, as long as it's comfortable for the intended purpose.

Once again, thank you for the replies. Just hearing others opinions and suggestions was really what I was looking for, and makes me feel much better about my current setup!

Top

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 180 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum