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#120773 - 09/12/09 02:43 PM Getting the Gear to get me started
newkidontherock Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Indiana, USA
Hello all,

I am new to backpacking and I am very excited to get started. I am 21 years old, 180 lbs and a college wrestler and I often train for endurance. I saw it got kinda rough for the guy who said he was an elite athlete, I only include this because I don't know if that might help with giving me advice. I have limited camping experience but I have grown up in the outdoors hunting and fishing(not the same I understand). I've been shopping around for gear and I would like the opinions of people who know what they're talking about.

Backpacks- My eventual goal is to take a summer trip through Europe after I graduate in about 18 months, but for now I want to take 3-10 day camping trips to sharpen my skills. I figure I'll need a pack with a large capacity and I want one that will keep it's contents dry in the rain. I like the High Sierra Long Trail 90 Suspension ($150.00)for all of it's features including the rain cover and 5500 cu. in. of storage. I also found the Jansport Whittaker LR Internal Frame Pack for $160.00 which from what I can tell is really cheap and it seems to be a nice pack. I want to stay around $150.00 or less but I also want something that will last.

Tents- I want a 3 season, two person tent that wont let in any moisture. I want it to stay cool in hot weather but if I wake up up 3 feet of snow I don't want to be freezing cold. I also want one the wont blow over in high winds that will fit nicely in my pack. I have done some shopping and read user reviews and I have narrowed it down to two and I would appreciate some help deciding on them. I like the Eureka Zeus and the Eureka Apex XTA for the price($150-$160) and the design seems like will do everything I want it to. the Zeus also has a vestibule we can store our packs in overnight.

I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this entire thing and I really look forward to your opinion. Like I said I am just getting started as a hiker/backpacker and once I have decided on a pack and a tent then I will focus on other pieces of equipment.
_________________________
Live Inquisitive, Live Adventurous, Live Insatiable, Live Caring, Live with Integrity, Live Respectful, Live Like An Explorer, Live Your Life.

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#120776 - 09/12/09 03:22 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By newkidontherock
I like the Eureka Zeus and the Eureka Apex XTA for the price($150-$160) and the design seems like will do everything I want it to. the Zeus also has a vestibule we can store our packs in overnight.


Welcome to the board. Clever name you chose there LOL!!!

I've owned and used a Zeus for several years and I must warn you that it may not fit your hot weather requirement. Even the newer revised model doesn't have much mesh to keep you cool in hot weather. Also, condensation is an issue in any single wall non-breathable fabric tent. I love my Zeus but others have complained about the condensation problem.

Then again, every tent design is a compromise and no tent does it all. Decide what is important to you and go from there.
_________________________
If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#120779 - 09/12/09 03:43 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
chris Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 26
Loc: kentucky
My best advice to you is to try to find a local backpacking club or also meetup.com. You will probably be able to find someone who will loan you some gear where you can go out for a few trips and really find out what you need. It's very hard to know what you'll like until you actually go backpacking. This comes from experience and you might be like me and then re-buy a bunch of gear.

KY Chris

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#120780 - 09/12/09 03:47 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3292
Loc: Portland, OR
There are limits to how much the same tent design can address all the requirements you named: staying dry, staying both cool and warm in different weather, and resisting high winds.

The more a tent design tries to do everything, the heavier and more expensive it will be. You say you want a three season tent, but seem to be asking it to perform like a four season one. And you want it to be on the moderate-to-cheap end of the price scale. You seem to be asking a lot.

You should probably evaluate where and how you will be using the tent a bit more thoroughly. If you really do need it to perform as well as you indicated, then you'll need to spend considerably more money and spring for a four-season tent like the Stephenson Warmlite tents, or a Hilleberg tent. The chances are very good you really don't need that much tent.

Since you don't want to spend a lot, I would recommend checking out some of the tents that are put on clearance / closeout at a variety of internet sites, such as REI-Outlet or BackCountryClearance. You'll find links to these places on the left edge of this forum page. The chances are good you'll be able to pick up a light and well-designed tent that was originally priced in the $250-$300 range, marked down closer to $150-$180.

In buying a backpack, fit is everything. Some fancy packs may not fit you well. Some cheap packs may fit you like a glove. Be prepared to keep searching until you get one that works for you and your body. Pack "features" are highly overrated. All you need is a bag with some kind of support framework and a padded hip belt to transfer weight. Get that, plus a good fit, and nothing else really matters.

I know it is hard to afford much at age 21, but I would definitely recommend shelling out a bit more for a quality tent and sleeping bag, then economizing like crazy on the rest of your gear. These two items can really make-or-break whether a trip is pleasant or a disaster. A bad purchase here will bite you over and over again.

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#120781 - 09/12/09 03:52 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: chris]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
If you haven't yet read the articles on the home page of this website (go to the bottom left of this page and click on "TLB Home"), be sure to do so. They are listed in the left-hand column of the home page and will give you lots of information on gear selection, gear lists and general backpacking information.

The general advice on this and other forums is to buy your pack last. You want a pack that's the right size for the rest of your gear (plus food and water), neither too large nor too small. Having a pack that is too large tempts you to take too much stuff (remember, this is a LIGHTWEIGHT backpacking forum). A too-small pack means you have to tie stuff on the outside which affects the balance of the pack. In addition, you need a pack whose suspension will let you comfortably carry the bulk and weight of the rest of your gear. Those with 15 lb. total pack weights can get by with much less pack than those carrying 30 lbs. It's most important that the pack fit you properly. Pack fit is almost as individual as shoe fit.

Welcome to the forum!



Edited by OregonMouse (09/12/09 03:53 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#120784 - 09/12/09 04:06 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
newkidontherock Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Indiana, USA
Thank you all very much! Each of you have addressed important factors that I, due to lack of knowledge and experience, have overlooked and will definitely consider when making my purchases. Thank you Mouse for the warm welcome, I look forward to being able to contribute to the forum as you folks do.
_________________________
Live Inquisitive, Live Adventurous, Live Insatiable, Live Caring, Live with Integrity, Live Respectful, Live Like An Explorer, Live Your Life.

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#120846 - 09/13/09 10:47 AM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Just FWIW, as mentioned to browse some of the articles about lightening up, but I strongly suggest you put together the rest of your gear *before* buying your pack if possible. Otherwise you are buying a giant pack just to fill it, as opposed to sitting down, making a list of what you really do need, seeing how much it weighs and what volume you need, then finding a pack that both fits you and works to carry what you will be carrying.

So rather than saying "I think I need lots of volume" - put your gear together and ask yourself "why".
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#120853 - 09/13/09 01:24 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: phat]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
You could do what I did my first backpacking trip, steal your stepsisters neon green bookbag grab 5 cans of pork and beans an old quilt from the attic well you get the point.

This site with the homepage to read is an amazing way to get started. Most opinions are based on experience and will save you alot of time and money.

Buying closeout when you start is a great way to find deals and i still do it today. Be sure to check places return policy, not all are as good as REI, so be sure you can return gear if it don't work for you.

hvae fun learning
peace
_________________________
"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
Shunryu Suzuki

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#120891 - 09/13/09 11:29 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Welcome, to the forum and to the addiction. smile

You will need to read the articles here and elsewhere - Mark Verber's site is my first suggestion for anyone getting started, it's a great primer for gear selection.
http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/index.html

Pack last, gear first. You will probably want to look at the gear lists here on the home site of the forum, at Mark Verber's, and start thinking about tradeoffs - you need to consider your destinations and the weather and climate you will be packing in for the first little while, and choose appropriately. My gear is tailored for Sierra hiking in spring, summer and fall, and coastal hiking in winter. I have to be prepared for 20F-30F night temps all year long. I doubt I would be comfortable heading for the Rockies without serious consideration of the differences there - I'd be adding bear spray, for example.

Not knowing if you are wanting to go light or ultralight first off, I suggest aiming for a pack weight of 30-40 lbs to start. Finding a good balance between comfort, safety and pack weight will help make outings pleasant and less prone to aching back and/or feet. You will find a great variety in "needs" among backpackers.

Don't assume a tent needs to be waterproof to keep moisture out. It needs to provide you with adequate shelter to keep your gear dry in rain, but be ventilated enough to allow condensation to evaporate - that's a tough thing in some environments. It's also a consideration with rain gear. My typical setup is an open tarp with a hammock strung under it, and a poncho for walking in the rain. Condensation has only been an issue while camping in a river valley near grassy meadows.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#120894 - 09/14/09 01:11 AM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: lori]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Camping is different from budget traveling, so what you will need for both will not necessarily be the same. There are many good books on both and I highly recommend doing some reading.

The Complete Walker is the bible of backpacking. In it, author, the late Colin Fletcher and his co-author/successor, Chip Rawlins, explain all about the philosophy of camping-how to select and organize your gear into systems that work together. Buying gear at random is a bad idea, no matter what bargains you see.

Taking a huge pack traveling has its downside-it may not fit in some luggage spaces on buses or trains, may not fit in the boot of a small car if you catch a ride, probably won't fit in an airport locker and other similar size issues as you travel. Something around 3K is more like it. I loaned a friend of mine a 3K pack and she spent a couple of weeks in India with it. I mention her because women, at least this one, tend to carry more clothes than guys and 3K was fine for that environment.

A small day pack is also a good idea. You stash the big pack at the hostel or hotel and day tour around with the little one.

There are lots of websites for that kind of traveling. This isn't one of them, although some members have done that kind of traveling.

Gear and clothing selection is also very dependent on where you are going and when, so if you are on a budget, keep that in mind. You may not be able to afford gear for every condition.What that means is you may want to focus your trips on certain areas at certain times to minimize the need for a whole closet full of stuff.


Edited by TomD (09/14/09 01:15 AM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#120900 - 09/14/09 03:24 AM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: TomD]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
It sounded to me like the OP wanted to do both backpacking and travel on a budget abroad - one wouldn't necessarily use a tent in Europe while on a walking tour. But it may be that he either isn't clear in his intentions, or isn't clear in understanding that the two modes of backpacking, US and European, mean different things.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#120903 - 09/14/09 04:55 AM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: lori]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
That was the impression I got, too, Lori. I may be wrong! If the OP is more interested in travel than wilderness trekking, and if he read the articles I suggested, he has undoubtedly recognized his mistake.

For the OP--the kind of backpack most of us use for wilderness trekking is not the kind you'd want for traveling. The big difference is airline baggage handlers! If you've ever seen them at work, you'll know you want something really tough for traveling. I have a convertible backpack I bought from REI back in 1992. It has backstays and a well-padded hipbelt, but the shoulder straps and hipbelt can be hidden under a panel (this also protects the straps from getting caught in the machinery). If you want to visit a regular hotel, you can make it look like a real suitcase. I have traveled a lot with mine and it still looks like new. That's what I'd recommend for traveling.
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#120905 - 09/14/09 07:23 AM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
What part of Indiana are you in? (I'm just across the border in Ohio, near Richmond, IN.) If you're interested, I'd be glad to share my gear list, developed for the Ohio/Indiana/Kentucky hiking I do, with you, just send me a PM (Private Mail) with your email address. My basic gear weight is around 16 pounds, with fuel and water added to that depending on the trip. I'm not an ultralighter, but I do use lightweight gear. It may help you get to a starting point more quickly.

There's a good place in Indiana to go to try out whatever new gear you end up with. It's called Shades Park, near Crawfordsville; it has a backpack area that's a couple of miles removed from the regular campground. I usually try to get there for my first trip of the year, just as a shakedown.

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#120943 - 09/14/09 09:11 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: Glenn]
kbennett Offline
member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 820
Loc: north carolina
Newkid--

Welcome. It sounds like you are at a college or university -- many of them have outdoor clubs on campus. Ours runs trips every weekend -- and they even supply all the gear! The trips range from a local overnight backpacking trip to five days in the Grand Canyon over Thanksgiving break. If your school has something similar, it would be a great place to start. Check with the recreation office, if any.
_________________________
--Ken B

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#121041 - 09/16/09 09:31 PM Re: Getting the Gear to get me started [Re: newkidontherock]
Kieran Offline
member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Seattle, WA
along the lines of borrowing gear, check local gear retailers and even local college campus for gear rental. you can learn a lot by just trying out some gear.

when it comes time to buy, check amazon - i was very surprised at some of the deals i was able to find there.

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