Posting this here because although not a beginner, this is our first round attempt at lightweight backpacking for the wife and I. We have made 2 weekend trips with this gear and the things we didn't use were whistles, first aid, rain gear tops and down sweaters (deet was not packed). The sweaters made nice pillows but the new down bags were so much warmer than our old synthetics we were over dressed even in our long underwear/PJs. Also the packs are Deuter act light 40+10's. Although on the heavier side, they were a conscious decision as we feel they carry even lighter weights better in light of minor back injuries.

We could use a brutally honest critique of our base weight. Although not ultra light we are hoping we are getting into the light weight zone. As we always go together the shared weight is obviously our greatest advantage. The couple stuff sacks that I do carry are home sewn coated lightweight rip stop nylon for a little extra protection for the sleeping bags and the neo air x-lights. Thinking of ditching the sleeping pad SS. The stove pouch is sewn of pack towel material for a little protection (stove legs are a little pointy). It is much lighter than the original crux stove pouch.

This will be our colder weather gear load for the months shouldering winters. I hope to loose at least 2 lbs. off the base weight in summer months by purchasing lighter bags or quilts and leaving more clothing home. Unfortunately I anticipate having to add that back in water weight during those months as medical issues require me to constantly hydrate.

Item- Pounds

Sleeping bag 15 deg. and SS (ss=32g) 2.266
Sleeping pad and SS (ss=12g) 0.798
Tent 1.613*
Fly 1.362*
Poles 1.018*
Tyvek footprint 0.379*
Tent stakes 6, caps 0.207*
Pack 3.549
Pack liner 0.136
Sawyer filter system and SS 0.357*
2 Water bottles 0.154
Water bottle hose 0.127
Rain gear top 0.789
Down sweater and SS 0.776
Light weight fleece 0.652
Long underwear top/bottom 0.912
Underwear spare 0.136
Fleece Hat 0.119
TP 0.154*
Compass 0.171*
Headlight 0.171
Knife 0.110
Lighter 0.048
Soap, Deet 0.052
Stove 0.194*
Stove pouch 0.008*
Fuel 0.467*
Plastic cup 0.145
Plastic spoon 0.035
Small pot 0.308*
Whistle 0.022
Pack towel 0.035
First aid 0.158*
Line 40ft paracord 0.158*

Sub total 17.586

*Gear total split 2 ways = 6.554 lbs /2= (3.277)

17.586-(3.277)= Base weight

Total base weight 14.309 lbs
folks, jimmyb

PS looks like the columns will not line up like in my spreadsheet.

To be honest, that about what my fall base weight is for 2 nights and 3 days trip, with the exception of a fleece. I have a Marmot insulated jacket that weighs like 11 or 12 ounces that I take as my only jacket beside rain jacket.

The list is a little confusing, especially the part about gear split two ways. It looks like you've mingled shared gear with "unshared" gear (for example, the 4 pounds of tent: is that the total weight of the tent you share, or are you each carrying 4 pounds of tent? You list only one pack, one cup and one spoon - but I asssume you each carry one?

Also, just because I'm too lazy to look up your previous posts, could you remind us where you mostly hike?

Having said that, some specific comments would be:

It appears that you've eliminated all the low-hanging fruit, like unnecessary spare clothing, extra pots, chair kits, climbingn ropes, and such. (Good job!) Now you're down to deciding how much money you want to spend.

You can save about a pound on sleeping bags, if money is no object (Think Western Mountaineering's Extremelite bag series, for one example, at about a pound and a half per bag.)

A 4-pound tent isn't too bad for a two-person tent, although there are lighter tents out there. (The Big Agnes Scout and Fly Creek Platinum are two that leap to mind, and weigh two pounds or less. Tarptents would be another option.)

Do you really need the groundcloth? This will depend greatly on where you camp. Around here (Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana-West Virginia-Virginia) a ground cloth isn't necessary most places; a tent floor is sturdy enough by itself. Of course, a ground cloth will keep the exterior floor a bit cleaner.

You mention a rain gear top - what about rain pants? I find them indispensable -but then, I hike in shorts, so they do double duty as long pants on a cold morning or in camp. Again, this will depend a lot on where you hike.

To get really picky, I don't carry a whistle - again, locale has a lot to do with it, and leaving it out certainly won't make your load noticeably lighter.

Your pack choice makes a lot of sense. That's not an unreasonable weight (at least not to me), and you're spending it on suspension, not gimmicks. Deuter packs are well-made, and the suspensions are incredibly comfortable and supportive. I've never been able to dial in as good a fit with the ACT Lite line as I can get with the Osprey Atmos 50, which weighs about the same as the Deuter ACT Lite packs - but that's just me, and doesn't reflect any objective criticism of the Deuter packs. I've used the ACT Lite 50+10 and the ACT Zero 50+15, and found them comfortable, just not as comfortable as the Atmos 50. There will be some who will, with justification, argue that they are overkill for the light loads you are carrying, and you should take what they say seriously. Try on some lighter framed packs that they recommend - some may provide equivalent comfort, but in the end don't be afraid to stick to your opinion that a bit more suspension is justified by your back injuries.

Glen, thanks for taking the time to review our gear load.

Sorry for the confusion. The list is for one pack. My original spread sheet lists shared equipment clearer but would not copy to the board correctly. Represented here are items we each carry and shared equipment all in one list. I totaled the shared equipment, divided by 2 and then subtracted 1/2 of that to represent the true base for both of us. Yeah, I can see how it gets confusing I will edit the post with asterisks next to shared equipment to make it clearer.

The tent is 4lbs. So that's 2 lbs each. We will be BPing in New England. That would be put us in Adirondacks NY, White mnts of NH, Long trail VT, and Berkshires nearer to home.

The issue of money was definitely a concern and the tent and bags were considered in that decision. The Kelty salida cost us $122 and we are actually very pleased with it. The EMS mountain lights were $269 ea. I did look at the Apache by Western Mountaineering but just couldn't spend the coin right now. Not the lightest as you mention but not breaking the bank if things didn't go so well and we decided not to continue with BPing. Talking money always makes me feel like I am making excuses for my gear decisions, but its just a fact of life. My one concern was the choice of a 15 deg bag. It quite possibly could be a little overkill but being cold at night ruins my trip. Having Fabry disease leaves me with a serious intolerance to cold. Once again trying not to make excuses, just an unfortunate fact of life.

I am a bit relieved that you understand my pack choice and if I can get the opportunity to check out some Lt Wt packs I will certainly take your advise. I am hoping to play around on the sewing machine this winter with making a Lt Wt day pack for fast trekking day hikes. Who knows, that may lead to better options for BPing.

again for taking the time, jimmyb

As far as packs, I carry about the same base weight as you. I've tried frameless (Granite Gear Virga) and minimally-framed ultralight (Osprey Exos and Talon) packs. They work, but not as comfortably as I liked - and extra food or water quickly put my total loads above the maximum weights they could handle. So, I decided to try to stay in that 3-4 pound range, with good suspensions.

Never apologize for budget limitations. I'm fortunate; I have a decent job, my kids are grown and gone, the mortgage is paid, and my wife and I don't have other vices (like smoking, drinking, or owning a boat or second home), so our vices are sewing and quilting (her, not me) and backpacking (me, not her.) Accordingly, I get to invest more in my gear to save those few extra ounces; it's my hobby. When I was younger, I also had to fit gear into a budget. That's how I know that you can't address going light only by throwing money at it. The first steps are what you did: fix your technique. Then, with what's left, you can make the necessary trade-offs between weight and cost, and then tweak things over time. It sounds like you're taking exactly the right approach (it has to be the right approach, since it's the same as mine, right? )

Oops forgot to address a few of your questions.

Ground cloth, yeah I go back and forth. This piece of gear pains me the most because it really would be the easiest to leave home. Gear to me is an investment and my nature is to protect it. I just picture a sharp going through the tent bottom and deflating my brand new inflatable

Leaving the bottom rain gear was a weather forecast related decision for both trips. We have them and use them as well.

Whistles, probably will keep them around. We actually heard folks lost in the woods calling for help a few weekends ago. You can run out of voice pretty quickly calling for help. Just hope others would respond as we tried to.

jimmyb

Yes Glen, we tried the Osprey line as well. We loaded our projected weights in as many packs as we could put our hands on. Neither one of us could fall in love with the lesser suspended packs. We figured if we couldn't love them going up and down the stairs at the store, they probably wouldn't cut it on the trail. We even returned our first purchase (unused) after we came across the Deuters.

I sometimes think of gutting the bladder pocket and sleeping bag compartment separator from inside the pack, until I think of a day when the shelter is soaked and muddy. Then I think it may be better left alone.

jimmyb

Your thinking is clearly along the right lines. You're making distinctions about what is important to you, not just what They (whoever They are) think you should do.

Did think of one other thing: why bowls? If you use the "boil and soak" meals, you could just prepare them in the bags, and eliminate the bowls. (Eliminate hot drinks, and drink water from your water bottles, and you can eliminate the cups, too.) Here, we're clearly into the neighborhood of personal preference; there's nothing wrong with you if you take both a bowl and cup...

No bowls Glenn, just the one pot. Last two trips were boil and bag meals eaten from the bags. We share the meal taking a spoonful and closing the bag (keeping in the heat)and handing it off. Maybe we scarf our food too quickly but we didn't see the need for a cozy. The meal stayed plenty hot. Maybe in colder weather.

We could even share a spoon but hey, I don't want to push some things. Im dang lucky to have the little lady along side as it is.

You are right on the cups, summertime they will stay at home. I just love to start and end the day with a hot cup of chocolate while at camp. Now on this one I MUST hold fast. I suppose I could justify it by saying I use it to scoop water into my squeeze filter bag for the Sawyer when there is no 'falling water'. Yeah that's it, multi purpose tool

Edit= just remembered. The cups also get used like bowls for our hot oatmeal stuffed with goodies like walnuts, rasins and crushed chocolate granola bars for breakfast.

jimmyb

Personally, I weigh everything in grams.

Are those weights on a scale, or are they manufacturers weights?

The main reason I posted is you can take a screen print of the excel spreadsheet and post it. I use a free program called Snip it.

You haven't posted anything about food and water. After I did the basic weight reduction, I found a great weight savings in not carrying too much food and water.

It's hard to be brutal when critiquing that list. I tried for bit but everything I came with added weight...

Gershon,

My apologies , I am a bit of a dinosaur with tech. I have a spread sheet that is the equivalent of an abacus to a calculator, still works for me though.

Every item was weighed on a calibrated scale. I'm finding manufacturer listed weights are just not reliable, but to cut them some slack, unless we are talking about a machined or cast item that is limited by tolerance inspection I imagine its pretty hard to hold numbers better than they do. Of course they could, but then the rejected items would get averaged in with the acceptable weights and your gear would cost like areo-space parts. My only gripe is that they should post the upper numbers of their production runs instead of possibly a pre production prototype.

I have all my gear listed in grams, lbs. and ozs. on my spread sheet. It is set up to total my gear weights before and after the consumables. I was mainly concerned with opinions here on the base weight on the colder days because there it will be at its heaviest. The water weight and food carried is so variable and maybe not a fair question to ask as my needs will vary greatly from others.

I definitely agree with you on limiting the water weight if possible. Even so much that the little sawyer will be in my day pack from now on. As far as food, I usually try to end up with nothing more than a few snacks back at the trail head. Im not big on carrying large amounts of extras but I always have in the back of my mind a debilitating injury that would force I single party overnight. That little extra snack could be a great comfort while a buddy goes for help.

for the tip on the download. I'll see if I can work with it.

jimmyb

Nearly all gear lists in the US are listed in ounces, usually to the nearest 1/10 ounce. A few use grams. Sorry, I'm not going to do the math to figure out if your weights for each item are what I'd consider reasonable. I also don't bother with metric, not because I'm against it but because I don't want to bother with conversion when comparing to others' lists.

In addition, there's the problem of shared gear. The two treatments I've seen are either allocating half the weight of the shared item to each person or to make individual lists showing who carries which shared gear item. The second is probably more realistic, especially if you include the consumables (food, water, fuel). Since I generally go solo, I don't have this issue. When I take a grandkid out, I make individual lists for each of us.

15 lbs. base weight is not bad except that I'm not sure how you are treating the shared gear.

You might want to look at the 7-day gear list on the [url=ww.backpacking.net]home page of this site, left hand column[/url] as a model for future gear lists. Unfortunately it doesn't treat the problem of shared gear!

.

Wow Bill, that's about all I could ask for!

jimmyb

Not a problem OM - were all set.

jimmyb

You're from Colorado and you weight everything in gram?!??! Sorry, I laughed out loud.

you said this was the colder shoulder seasons.
So why take the water filter? Often freezing is bad for them and boiling is effective if fuel consuming.
Tent, fly, poles, well you could go lighter but ok.
Ditch the gnd cloth
ditch the packliner, the second water bottle and why not use a lighter bottle?
Ditch the water bottle hose, spare underwear,compass, knife, soap, whistle and paracord.
Besides that, what kind of stove?
And rain pants/bibs sould be added.
Jim
He said be brutal...

Jim your only 4 months late!

Not really, winter didn't arrive here in the PNW until a couple of days ago!

Thanks Jim,

1-We have since replaced the tent and cord for LT WT gear at half the weight. I need the cord for bear bagging.
2-I wont be going without a pack liner as my pack is not waterproof and I don't want to risk my sleep bag and insulators to wet weather.
3-The bottles are 1 liter soda bottles similar to smart water bottles but 4g less per bottle. Not sure what would be lighter but open to suggestion. I had two on the list for areas where water will not be as available. My backup would be the Sawyer bag.
4-the filter goes in my bag at night. we are not usually in below freezing temps during the day in fall or spring here. Filtering allows me to carry less water. I don't want to boil along the trail. I have kidney disease and fear using chemicals. To me its worth the extra weight here.
5-Your right, I could very well go without a hose but I have found that I am a whole lot more comfortable hiking when I can take a quick sip without stopping. I actually find I can manage my consumption much easier this way. Worth the extra oz. for me. I started using a hose years ago when off road motorcycling where drinking was a mandatory hands off operation. Just a little water in hot conditions while wearing lots of safety gear went a long way. Still does. This is kinda another health related choice in that Fabry patients don't have an effective cooling system.
6-soap is for sanitary reasons. From my research much better than hand sanitizer at getting rid of certain bacteria. Especially the kind you can imagine I'm using the soap for. I have it in mini eye drop bottle. I suppose I could wash my hands in dirt or sand to remove bacteria because most is removed by the mechanical action of washing but that just seems a little counter productive.
7-the rest are personal choices I guess. I have used a compass several times when the trail became non existent. Knife is 1.5 oz of great value to me. Whistle, tiny bit of insurance. Ditching something that insignificant (10g)in weight seems stupid light IMO. Keep in mind we don't consider ourselves SUL packers and I mean no disrespect to any one who is.
8-If the weather is on the warm side and rain is definitely out I have been known to go without rain pants but your definitely right about the add in so I have some material coming for a couple pairs of sub-3oz MYOG rain pants.

Our Spring/Fall base weights are now at 13.6 pds.
Summer base is 11.7 pds.
So I hope I addressed the issues sensibly and weight efficiently. Always open to more advise though.

again, jimmyb

i just meant the post's dates;)