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#136965 - 07/29/10 09:12 PM Kentucky Area Newbie Questions
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
I'm new to the forums and backpacking all together and have been over loaded with reading information and it's all jumbled up. I thought I might ask some small specific questions so I can get going in this great hobby.

My goals for backpacking are that I want to start out on small weekend trips, 2 1-2 days over night and work up to maybe a week one day. I hate re buying gear so I want to go ahead and get quality stuff the first time around. I am about 6'1 195.

1. What lightweight pack would you recommend, comfort being the #1 priority.

2. What tent for all weather in this area?

also any other suggestions for this area and things needed would be great.

thanks and cheers!

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#136986 - 07/30/10 08:27 AM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I hike and camp in the same area as you (Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana), and have assembled my gear specifically for our area. Some of those area-specific choices (since it's hot and humid most of the time, and winters are mildish) include a preference for as much mesh as I can get in a tent, very little clothing (and lighter winter layers), and supper as my only cooked meal.

As a general recommendation, if you're looking for an easy way to get started, you can't go wrong with MSR gear and Deuter or Granite Gear packs. This isn't saying it's the "best" gear out there, since "best" means different things to different people, but it's good quality, easy to use, not overly pricey, reasonably light, and durable. It simplifies your choices from 50 packs down to about 5, 30 stoves down to about 3, etc.

Send me a private mail with your email address, and I'll be glad to send you my gear list(s) if that will help you get started.

I've been traveling the last couple of weeks - did they get the Red River Gorge area opened back up yet after the bear incident?

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#137078 - 08/02/10 01:40 AM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
verber Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 269
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
> What pack

When it comes to comfort, the most important factor with a pack is fit which varies person to person. So a pack which is perfectly comfortable for me, might be perfectly awful for you. My best recommendation is to try and find an outfitter who carries a wide variety of packs and try several packs with weight equiv to what you plan to carry. Osprey and Granite Gear are the two mainstream manufacturers that I think make some of the more comfortable light weight packs. There are also some cottage companies like Gossamer Gear, Six Moon Designs, and ULA-Equipment that make excellent ultralight/light packs which include framing elements. Over the years I have tried a lot of packs for my 15-35lb loads. My go to pack for years was a Granite Gear Vapor Trail. A couple of year ago I switched to a Gossamer Gear Gorilla which I have been very happy with. I have written up some additional thoughts on my recommended packs page.

> What tent

Do you plan to go backpacking in the dead of winter (e.g. snow is likely to be encountered) or just the "shoulder" season where snow is possible but unlikely?

If it's just three season I am very fond of "tarptent" style shelters which give decent protection from rain and bugs. My only reluctance suggesting one of these shelters are the memories of several trips where the only campsites available to us became almost like a marsh (standing if not flowing water under our shelter) after a hard rain. Handing these conditions either requires trenching (not a Leave No Trace solution) or a shelter with a highly waterproof bath tube style floor).

You might find my recommended shelters helpful.

> Other suggestions

I have very fond memories of Red River Gorge. Depending on where you are in Kentucky, there might be some spots on WV that wouldn't be too far that are quite nice. I lived in Ohio and didn't find anyplace that was really amazing, though the Hocking Hills was a favorite destination for day hikes.

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#137083 - 08/02/10 12:50 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
I have and like the Gossamer Gear Gorilla pack, but the ULA Ohm looks very nice, and I almost got it instead.

I would recommend the following Tarptents because they handle condensation better due to being double-wall or having a liner to prevent it from dripping on you:

Rainbow
Double Rainbow (2010 model was updated to have plenty of room for 2)
Moment (may be coming out with a liner soon, I hear)
Scarp 1 (double wall)
Scarp 2 (double wall)

But, some condensation dripping isn't likely to be a major trip-killer either. smile

If you're planning to be out in real winter conditions, that's a big factor in your shelter selection. Another factor would be if you plan to share your tent with someone else. I went with a Tarptent Scarp 2 because, although heavier than other Tarptents, it works well for both winter and three season use if you get both solid and mesh interiors. I also have a Golite Shangri-La 3 which I use as a lighter option (fly only), using it as a teepee-shaped tarp (2 lbs with 15" noseeum mesh skirt I sewed on).



Edited by ohiohiker (08/02/10 12:52 PM)

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#137129 - 08/02/10 11:09 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: ohiohiker]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Tarptents are an interesting, innovative design. I've owned one (Rainbow), but ended up choosing a Hubba (and eventually a Carbon Reflex 1) instead.

The Tarptent was light (but only a couple ounces lighter than the Carbon Reflex 1); it was also half again as roomy. It was well-made, stable, and a real contender. However, I chose the Hubba/CR1 because it was a double-wall tent. That choice had nothing to do with condensation, but everything to do with ventilation. Any tent, under humid conditions, with the fly closed, will have condensation issues (though my experience with the CR1 is that it has fewer issues than any other tent I've used, for reasons I haven't yet figured out.) But, in truly hot and humid conditions in Ohio (which means bugs, too), when it's not going to rain, I can leave the fly off. The inner tent is about 95% mesh, which means the ventilation is about as close as you can come to "outdoors." With the Tarptent, I didn't have the option for 95% mesh, and the tent would heat up under those conditions.

That's the logic of my choice. I'm sure the other two posters who prefer the tarptent under summer-in-Ohio conditions have equally logical reasons for their choice. In the end, it comes down to your style and preferences, not ours, so don't make a decision until you hear why they chose the Tarptent.

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#137143 - 08/03/10 12:05 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: Glenn]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Glenn,

I agree with your point. Most of the time I do not pay much attention when ground dwellers talk about tents.

I carry a TYVEK tarp or a TYVEK tent (SubLite) in the Grand Canyon because it can get very hot under silnylon in the hot sun. A silnylon tarp is just about useless for shade.

_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#137152 - 08/03/10 03:27 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: ringtail]
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
I have settled on a pack. I am still looking at tent options, I will be going in the winter. We don't have HARSH winters like up north but it does get cold and we do get some snow. It seems the tarp tents might not be up to this task?

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#137159 - 08/03/10 04:40 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
I can't reply to that, since I've never used a Tarptent in the snow. Likewise, I can't speak to the Carbon Reflex in the snow, at least not yet. I have used the Hubba in the snow in Ohio and Indiana (maybe 3 - 6 inches) with no problems.


Edited by Glenn (08/04/10 09:45 AM)

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#137195 - 08/04/10 03:14 AM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
verber Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 269
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
In the summer I certainly appreciate why people want a double walled shelter. They certainly have a lot of comfort features going for them. There are certainly double wall shelters that are in the said weight league as some of the more feature full tarptents... but there are some ultralight shelters which are significantly lighter. For example, I have been using a zpack's hexamid since late Jan. The shelter + groundcloth + stakes is 12oz.. plus an additional 4oz for the hiking pole I would be carrying anyway. There are no double wall shelters that get quite that light,

In the winter, it is good to have a shelter which fully blocks wind and keeps blown snow out. 3 season shelter and tarptents are less than ideal because they don't do this. They are designed to ventilate which is what you want in the other three seasons.

Can you use a 3 season shelter in the typical mid-west winter. Yes, it's possible, but there I have also occasionally had an unpleasant night when we got dumped on with powdery snow and strong winds because the snow came right through the mesh. When I really expect snow I switch from a tarptent shelter to a classic floorless pyramid tarp which I stake down to the ground.

--mark


Edited by verber (08/04/10 03:20 AM)

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#137240 - 08/04/10 10:24 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: verber]
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
What tents should i research then? In looking at information its VERY EASILY to get caught up and spend hours reading and still be undecided on things. This has happened to me here in the last week. there is so much to read when you are trying to buy some of the essentials and bigger purchases right the first time around

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#137245 - 08/05/10 07:21 AM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
If you're on a tight budget, look at Kelty, Sierra Designs, and REI (house brand.)

If your budget isn't really tight, and you want to go lighter weight, look at Tarptent, Big Agnes UL and SL lines, and MSR Fast and Light line.

You should find something to your liking in one of those groups. Specific models I'd recommend would be the MSR Hubba, Hubba HP, and Carbon Reflex. For Big Agnes, it would be the Copper Spur UL, Fly Creek UL, Seedhouse SL, or Emerald Mountain SL. I prefer a side-entry tent; the Fly Creek and Seedhouse are end-entry, but nice tents. I also prefer the single-person versions, but all are available in a 2-person version.

I've used the Hubba in snow, and not had any problems with the blow-in one poster described; perhaps, because I camp in the woods, the trees form a windbreak and the wind isn't that ferocious at ground level. However, if you're concerned about blow-in, the Hubba HP, Fly Creek, and Copper Spur might be a good compromise between windbreak and ventilation since they all have nylon walls about half way up the tent, and mesh the rest of the way.

Definitely give Tarptent a look. I can't comment on them any further than I already have, but I wouldn't reject them out of hand.

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#137257 - 08/05/10 12:45 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
ohiohiker Offline
member

Registered: 07/20/07
Posts: 127
Loc: Ohio
The Scarp is a Tarptent which was designed to handle snow, and it does so well. Note that the extra poles are needed.

I got the solid inner (with some mesh vents) for winter use with my Scarp 2. I use the all mesh inner for summer. If you bring the crossing poles or some extra guylines, the mesh inner can be set up on its own. (See the Scarp 2 page.) With the poles, this is a little bit "fiddly" to secure the poles in place at the ends. It's not straightforward, and requires a little tent pitching creativity. smile Also, you can't simply throw the fly over top like with many double wall tents. You'd have to clip the mesh inner back into the fly.

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#137259 - 08/05/10 12:55 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: ohiohiker]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6799
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Quote:
ou can't simply throw the fly over top like with many double wall tents. You'd have to clip the mesh inner back into the fly.


That's really a good thing--you can pitch the Scarp in the rain without getting the inner tent wet. While most European tents work that way, most US manufacturers make you pitch the inner tent first, making it almost impossible to do in the rain.

For an excellent overview of current shelters, read the "Shelters" section of Mark Verber's website.


Edited by OregonMouse (08/05/10 12:59 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#137264 - 08/05/10 03:00 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: OregonMouse]
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
After more reading and video I am going with the scrap1. It seems to be very simple to setup and can handle all 4 season well. Thanks for the help. Now onto bags...lol

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#137267 - 08/05/10 03:44 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
That's easy: Western Mountaineering! grin

Scarp looks like a good tent - it should serve you well. Be sure to let us know how it goes.

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#137282 - 08/05/10 11:10 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: Glenn]
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
will do, cant wait to get it in and test it out. those are nice but $$$, maybe for my birthday next month. any other suggestions?

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#137296 - 08/06/10 07:36 AM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Actually, I was just being a wise guy. I got turned on to WM bags by a salesman in a local shop (big surprise!) I had been using a Marmot bag (Hydrogen or Helium, whichever is rated for colder weather), but it only had a half zip, so I was looking for a summer bag. I asked about a Marmot bag, but the clerk said, "You really need to look at the WM Mitylite. It has a full side zip, and no hood, and is a great summer bag. I use one myself." (Have you ever met a salesman who doesn't use whatever it is you're looking at? wink ) Anyhow, he was right, and it was love at first sight, followed about six months later with the WM Megalite. (The Marmot bag went to a friend who was just getting into backpacking.) I'm still using both bags, very happily; my wife, who does not even car camp more than once a year, made me get a second Mitylite for use when we're visiting the kids, or they're visiting us (and, somehow, we end up on the sleeper sofa.) WM temperature ratings seem about 5 - 10 degrees conservative.

However, personal biases aside, there are some good bags out there. I never had any issues with my Marmot Hydrogen/Helium, and their ratings seem pretty accurate. I've also used a couple of Marmot's synthetic bags, and they worked well, too. I would definitely recommend their products.

I've heard good things about the REI and Campmor house brands, but have never used either.

Good luck - again, stick to major brands, and you won't go too far wrong.

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#137306 - 08/06/10 03:42 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: Glenn]
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
Glenn I forgot to thank you for sending that list over, its helped a lot.

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#137325 - 08/06/10 08:51 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Glad to hear it. As I tell my audiences at seminars, I can mislead you with the best of them. wink

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#137326 - 08/06/10 09:07 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: Glenn]
jdg Offline
newbie

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 7
do you make it down to the gorge much?

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#137338 - 08/07/10 07:13 AM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: jdg]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
Not as much as I used to, when I had a Scout troop. For a few years, we were down there probably 4 or 5 times a year. Now, I'm lucky to get down there once. Lately, now that my favorite hiking buddy lives in Norfolk, VA, we look for places about halfway between us - which means Shenandoah NP and Grayson Highlands/Mt. Rogers mostly, with our first visit to Dolly Sods next month.

I've got to try to get back there soon, though. I'm working with a troop of Scouts as a Backpacking Merit Badge counselor. We're trying to work them up to a backcountry trip, but their skill level is not yet up to the Gorge. They've got to learn to pack better, not get wet everytime they see a creek, and practice better camp housekeeping before we head out on a real trail. We're still at the simulate-at-public-campground level.

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#137384 - 08/08/10 04:55 PM Re: Kentucky Area Newbie Questions [Re: Glenn]
gorge_medic Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 131
Loc: Kentucky
The Gorge has been my go-to playground for short trips for a while now. I've had good luck with a Tarptent Contrail for longer trips when there's a good chance of rain, but my best option for overnights or weekends has been a ponchotarp, maybe with a bivy added for splash protection. The bugs in the Gorge haven't been particularl bad, you might be able to get away with a headnet while you're in your bag.

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