I was finally able to go out for a bp trip this month, making it at least one bp trip every month this year.:)

I only went 10 minutes from home a short drive to the PCT where to the north is the Bucks Lake Wilderness and the south is more of the PCT. I left my snowshoes in my truck, should have walked back and put them on as I was postholing to my knees a few times. Anyway, last night was just above freezing, I used my blue, 1/2" thick closed cell pad under my small, NeoAir pad. I left it fully inflated, although after you air it up, it looses pressure due to the hot air that was blown into it has cooled. I left it as it was, usually I have to let some air out to be comfortable anyway. My stragegy worked ok last night. I barely felt any cold from the ground if that was what I was feeling. Very happy with the results from sleeping last night, I even got a fair night of sleep in, only tossing and turning a little. I also had my WM 15 degree bag. Further testing in Yosemite in a few weeks maybe, if I go with the group for New Year's. Total weight for a pad system in the winter would then come to 22.8 oz. 9.3 oz. for the NeoAir and stuff sack, 13.5 for the blue pad. Not much of a savings over my Exped DAM9 pad which weights 27 oz.

That 1/2" CCF pad is about what you need, IMHO, with the NeoAir for winter use. I wouldn't want to try it with less! Personally, I'd use the Downmat, but YMMV!

Keep us posted about further use on the snow. I would love the comfort of the Neo in my mountaineering set up.

I was able to use my small, NeoAir in Yosemite for three nights, New Year's Eve after the celebrating on frozen ground, using the 1/2" closed cell pad. The second night on the snow although temps were only 24 or so Saturday morning and Saturday night, temps only at 29 this morning at 6:45. The first night, slept great, good test on frozen ground. The second night, after thinking about it yesteday, I think I was not hydrated properly after the bp trip in to Dewey Point where our group of 15 camped. I slept ok, was not cold glad I had my 5 degree bag. Saturday night, I drank more water to get hydrated after a five hour snow shoe trip to an area close to Taft Point and slept quite warm. My set up worked, however, I noticed this morning while packing up, that where I had slept, the snow was melted some and had a slight depression, an indicator I was not insulated fully from the snow, but I slept warmly, so that is what counts. If I would have had my 15 degree bag, it could have been another thing. Up to you. Two others in our group of 15 had a NeoAir also. I didn't have a chance to ask them about how warm they slept.

This has been my experience with all manner of pads and combinations of pads and thermorests and space blankets. I think, within limits, that this is quite normal. On the one hand if there was no melting you could say you're carrying to much insulation. On the other hand if you melt into the snow 6" you would probably be cold. Fine tuning a winter sleep system, or any sleep system for that manner, takes several trips. Lots of variables come into play.

Thanks for the Neo report.

valuable information!

Well, I have been snow camping for years, just more in the last five years. Always looking over the hill for more info. This trip had Alameda Frank along, always neat to pick his brain on gear, he hangs out on so many forums and meets lots of people. Of course he has the time to get out more also. I ask him stuff and some of his responses are, you don't need that, you have enough experience to use what you have. A great compliment from him.

hikerduane

Thanks for the info. Looking at buying an air matress; your report influencing what I do.

May I ask why you put the pad between the air matress and the ground, rather than on top of the air matress?

Reason that I ask is that we always used to put a space blanket on top of the air matress to insulate ourselves from the cold air in the air matress.

Thank you. Learning a lot.

Steadman

We discussed that a little too this weekend. Personal preference I guess, for me, the blue pad is harder, so I sleep with the softer on the body pad on top. Be forewarned, the NeoAir does not seem to be as robust as other ThermaRest pads or other brands also. I feel, like other lightweight gear, you give up durability for lightness. I could afford newer gear the last few years, so I have been going for it. YMMV.

I also used my pad in AK this summer and in the John Muir Wilderness in Oct. where temps were down to 4 and 5 if I did not mention that somewhere. I know over on TT, they were saying it would not be usable in temps under freezing, they are wrong. On the snow is the only place I have used the added insulation of the closed cell pad.

I asked the folks at Cascade Designs what would be warmer, NeoAir on top or closed cell foam on top, and they said NeoAir on top. This makes sense, as the radaint heat reflective elements inside the NeoAir would be at a less than optimum distance from the sleeper if a closed cell pad were on top of the NeoAir.

My small NeoAir continues to amaze me on the low temps it is capable of handling. I used it again this weekend with my 1/2" blue ccp. I went on another snow camping trip over the weekend with a friend to the Lake Tahoe area. We were going to go into Five Lakes Basin, behind Alpine Meadows ski area, but had to go up a very steep hill with our snowshoes after being told the summer trail is not open for winter use.:( We ended up only going in less than a mile and camping out of the wind in a small bowl that was wind free on the other side of the hill we had to climb. I must be getting old, the younger guy beat me up the hill.:) We had a few snow showers come thru before we went to bed. Anyway, this morning when I got up at 6:00 AM, I checked the ole zip-o-gauge and it showed 13-14 degrees. Sleeping was about the same as the experience I had on the Yosemite trip, but I had on my Mont Bell down liner pants this time as I thought it would get colder then it did, I used my 15 degree bag this time instead of my 5 degree bag that I had in Yosemite. I did not use my liner pants in Yosemite, as I used them just for sitting in the kitchen area in the evening. Kind of a trade off. Still ok.

Guys

I tried what you suggested (pad down, air mattress on top) and it worked like a CHARM last weekend.

It was in the 30s, I had a space blanket down first as a ground cloth, then a MILSPEC pad, then a Big Agnes Iron Mountain II air mattress. On top of that, I was in a military bivy sack with a poncho liner wrapped around my 40 degree Mountain Hardware Lamina bag. I was in long johns, socks, and a hat, and had my heavy fleece on top of it all, but I was WARM, on top of an uninuslated air mattress, and 5-10 degrees outside of the temperature range of my bag. Oh... no tent.

I did get a BIT cold after I got up to pee, but, that had more to do with getting readjusted between the poncho liner and the sleeping bag, as I was TOASTY before I got up.

Oh well - I had a blast, and I don’t have to carry that pad this summer.

Thanks for the good advice.

Steadman

PS – MILSPEC gear a result of a great DRMO run when I used to be a scoutmaster…