http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/stealth_one_nano_ultralight_tarp.html

This bad boy weighs only 4 ounces but I have the feeling that it won't last very long in the elements.

Does anyone have any experience with this and can comment on its durability?

Dude, you need to stop either advertising products here; OR ask Ryan Jordan the qustions himself over at Backpackinglight. Why are you afraid to post those threads there <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Freakinaye is right <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I smell a scoundrel or a tweener <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

are you serious?

Your telling me that I can't post a link to something I am thinking about buying here? Why would I ask on a forum for someone who is trying to sell it. I want an un-biased opinion. How else can I asking about the gear without posting the link for it. Whats the point in light gear talk if I can't ask about speicific gear?

No, what I am saying is that if every one of your posts references specific BPL products ;then you should be emailing with Ryan Jordan about them. He can give you detailed answers none of us will have, because he designs and makes the products and knows their limits and functions better than anyone IMO. That is what I am trying to explain to you.

Oh, and there is a substantial forum at BPL with lots of 'unbiased' opinions of people who also are members here and post here <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regularly BPL posts lists of comparision products to their gear in order to show how they pan out in the marketplace. Ableit, you may have to be a paying member to read some stuff, but that's the way it functions 'over there' <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

From BPL:

"The 2008 Nano Tarps now feature the lightest possible fabric that we dared put into a tarp design."

How much experience do you have with tarps? In another thread you stated that you are new to the lightweight scene. This is not a product for someone who is just transitioning from tents to tarps. Read the description. Do you really want to depend on this skimpy tarp in blowing snow as you mentioned in your other thread? Especially with the minimal bivy you plan to use?

Take things a step at a time. Just use a cheapie from Home Depot or if you want to save ounces you can easily make your own from silnylon.

A tarp isn't like a tent. You can't just throw one up anywhere. Sure, the setup on the BPL site looks warm and fuzzy but that's under ideal conditions. After all they want you to buy the product. What if it's really windy? What if the ground is too hard to drive all the stakes?

Many people will recommend an 8'x10' for those new to tarping. I'm not trying to talk you out of a tarp. Just this specific tarp.

My impression is that you're trying to go from point "A" to point "D" while skipping points B and C on the experience scale. Take things one step at a time.

Excellent advice. I've used poncho tarps (8'x5') with a bivy and survived moderately rainy weather in the southeast, but I much prefer the room and fudge factor allowed by an 8' x 10' tarp with a bivy, such as this:



The temps hit 9 F with sputtering snow overnight. I would have been quite uncomfortable from the wind chill and sputtering flakes that would have whipped around a postage stamp tarp.

This setup allowed me one side all the way down as a windbreak. The Integral Designs 8' x 10' Siltarp (15 ounces) and Integral Designs Endurance Bag Cover (10 ounces) more than made up for the extra 12 or so ounces versus the SUL bivy/tarp combo you're considering.

I was looking at the 8x10 vs the 8x5 versions.

I am going to REI tomorrow to layout the 2 and really see what I am dealing with. I am just curious about this tarp being so light and how long will it actually last in the colorado mountains.

I have experimented with 'cheapie' tarps so I see what I am up agaist. That is mainly whey I fell in love with them. I am the type of person that wakes up to anything and when I am in a tent I don't know what is outside. When I used this tarp I got from home depot just to see what it is like, I slept so much better then I ever have since I could just hear something, look around for a second and go back to sleep with peace of mind.

I still have very new to UL backpacking though and will take your advice on tarp size. I do have to deal with raining/snowy and sometimes windy conditions.

Just to understand though...8x10 goes better with minimalist bivies and 8x5 goes better with more protective and heavier bivies? Do people every use 8x5 tarps and minimalist bivies? Perhaps they do but I guess they are not very comfortable?

Earthy, he's looking for non-BPL opinions. I'm sure Mr. Jordan is an honest dude, but sometimes the Cult Of Dr. J. has some trouble with impartiality. and then there are the SUL-ers, who are welcome to their mania but are definitely not the ones to ask when you're first getting into LW/UL!

8x5 will not keep both you and your dog dry, IMO. Start with an 8x10 or so, and if you want something smaller when you're not expecting (much) rain, get a poncho tarp maybe. IMO, don't buy the most expensive tarp you can find, just something decent. I totally agree with the advice on the other thread to spend most of your budget on your sleeping bag... I have no idea how to help a dog stay warm though

Just window shopping. I've never tried these products.

tarp

hammock with bug net

Hey I resemble that remark <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Or at least I used to be untill I tried to become more un biased and un-whatever. Especially since I started giving LW seminars and working one on one with people and their gear. I have really had to cater to and listen to what people are saying and what they are wanting.
I think that ma`ybe why Mr. F keeps plugging BPL is maybe that is the only one one of the few LW sites he has found. I know my favorites was just a general Bp favorites icon on my desk top. Fast forward about 3 years and now I have it catagorized according to different criteria and it has amassed to well over 100 sites.
As far as what advise I can give let me go back to your original question. I have a similar 4 ounce home made cuben tarp and have weathered some pretty good rain storms under it. But yes Trail runner brings up some very good points. You have to connect the dots first. If I had tried to go from a tent to this I would have died or gotten so disgusted with Bping that I would have stuck to riding and racing bikes. Start out with a cheap syl tarp or a fully enclosed shelter such as the SMD Lunar solo or similar. You will find that almost every trip will require some variable of shelter systems, so the more options you have the more safe you will be and the better off you be as well. Buy used if you can, or if your handy with a sewing machin attempt to sew your own.
My general rule of thumb for me is this: In the summer it is just the tarp and my 18 ounce 35F bag, unless it is going to be about 50F or above at night and then I just leave the bag at home and take only my 6 ounce bivy saving me about 12 ounces of weight. In the fall and late spring I take the tarp, Ul bivy, and 35 F bag. In the early winter and early spring where moderat snow and or major rain is expected I take a 15f bag buvy and my SMD Lunar solo. In the dead of winter I take a full on moutaineering tent and alot of other crap as well.
Just my two cents

You are correct on the number of sites I have visited. Right now all I can do is have a general idea of what I want, google it and go off of the 1-2 pages that come up. I think I have only skimmed through about a dozen different sites so far trying to find the ones that are truly UL or the commercial ones trying to pretend to be. There is a major difference but the true UL sites are hard to find. I have only found them because you guys have told me what gear you use and when I search for it, I get the sites.

On a side note I can't just keep buying new gear as I get "better" at hiking. I don't have to buy the SUL crazy small gear but I can't just get the commercial UL gear first and change later....I am not that rich <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is why I am doing tons of research, weighing my options and deciding what type of gear I can grow into. I already have an idea of what I want, now I just have to get it.

I really just want to good gear list from people, so when I look them up, I am presented with many more options.

An 8x10 tarp is a better place to start. Sil-nylon is much more durable than the really light spinnaker fabrics. An 8x10 silnylon tarp can be had for about 12-14 ounces.

My current ground set-up is a 6x10 silnylon tarp and a homemade bivy/bag cover. The total weight with stakes and guylines is 24 ounces. The bivy weighs 8 oz in its stuff sack (silnylon bottom, Momentum .90 top, big mesh panel over the upper chest and head.) Making the bivy myself means that it's big enough and long enough for myself and my largest winter sleeping bag. I like the extra length of the 10-foot tarp, too.

For a dog, the 8x10 is the way to go. Plenty of covered space for gear, dog, cooking, looking out at the world, etc.

I have used an 8x5 tarp to sleep under (my ID silponcho) and with very careful site selection and stuff it works well, but understand you will have to be extremely careful in heavy weather,
and not necessarily comfortable. I would not take only that without some kind of bivy bag.

OTOH, I have frequently slept under my 8x10 MEC silnylon tarp that is my usual hammock tarp cover, (note, I'm talking about sleeping on the ground here, not in the hammock) and I'll echo Bearpaw's sentiments about being able to have some room, fudge factor for not getting wet, and being able to bring a side down. Quite frankly, at least for me, I am comfortable using an 8x10 tarp without worrying about a bivy bag, I've done it enough. I wouldn't say the same thing for an 8x5, and realisticly, by the time I am going to carry a bivy and an 8x5, I can just carry my 8x10 for a similar amount of weight.

Caveat, I'm a big guy and like to roll around at night - if you're tiny and never move while you sleep, ymmv.

Very light gear has a shorter life than traditional gear that was designed for durablility. Look at the weights of all of the tarp choices at Campmor. At Gossamer Gear, they have good lightweight gear at good prices and are honest about users needing to replace the gear after a while. Cheap-light-durable, you get to choose two. Ultralight gear costs more due to materials. Super ultralight gear is truly expensive. At Campmor, a silnylon poncho is $40 while Mountain Laurel Designs has some $170 ponchos. Life is full of compromises. There will always be stuff you can't afford to buy, so get used to that. Expect to learn from your personal experiences with your gear, you can't gather it all from the internet. Expect to change one major piece of gear per year. Do one night trips until you know what your gear is capable of handling, then escalate. My suggestion is to get light weight gear and use it, instead of staying home to save for something that costs $30 per ounce extra for 3 or 4 ounces less weight. Put the extra money in your gas tank getting to the trailheads more often.

I've had some decisions to make on how much I want to spend to save another 4 ounces. There comes a time when it gets ridiculous. In one scenario the difference between the delta in price and delta in weight was $100/ounce! It's probably a good idea to do some calculations of this sort before going wild on the spending.

On the other hand, if you have plenty of money to burn, feel free to enrich the makers of innovative lightweight gear so they can innovate some more. Or send it to me to pay for my gas to drive to Colorado and Wyoming next month for two back-to-back one week backpacks. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I agree with bearpaw. I have used a poncho tarp a lot of times - with a minimalist bivy. It works, but there is some sacrifice. If you just want to plop down and sleep under a shelter it will work. If you want a litttle more space for gear and moving around then the 8x10 might be a better fit. It would be cool if you could eventually get both size tarps that you are considering, for versatility. My kit is not always as light as it could be - but sometimes a little weight is worth the comfort - to me.

Thats wild about that poster attacking you like that - never seen that before.