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#91375 - 02/25/08 07:11 PM sleeping system
blazer209 Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 31
Loc: California/central
Anyone just tried to go lite to the max end of the spectrum?Like an emergency foil blanket, and maybe a sheet inside as a liner.How low can you go?With out going to the hospital.

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#91376 - 02/25/08 07:58 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Not my idea of fun but whatever floats your boat. As long as you don't involve SAR resources <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#91377 - 02/25/08 10:55 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Anyone just tried to go lite to the max end of the spectrum?Like an emergency foil blanket, and maybe a sheet inside as a liner.How low can you go?With out going to the hospital.
I watched Survivor Man do this and he didn't seem to be having much fun nor getting much sleep. I would only consider this option in an extreme emergency.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

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#91378 - 02/26/08 06:42 AM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Around '63 or '64, the Scoutmaster set up a 'survival' overnight. We were to pack as light as we could. For the two nighter, I came in at about 14lbs as did my buddies...I even had a transistor radio (it was back in those days <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). But we each only brought a wool blanket to sleep in. No tent...no tarp...nothing else, just the blanket and our trail clothes. Even though the overnight was somewhere in PA and the weather was mild, I froze my bippy!

We already had the motto, "Any fool can be uncomfortable" but this trip confirmed its truth. We were both.

These days I mosty hammock hang. I wear the normal assortment of base layers, socks and booties, and balaclava, etc. To that I add a hooded insulated jacket and insulated pants. With no sleeping bag or quilt and an Oware pad I'm good into the mid-20s. That's as minimalist as I'm ever likely to go.

"Any fool can be uncomfortable."

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#91379 - 02/26/08 06:14 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: Fiddleback]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Ditto all the above posts, plus, don't ask questions without doing a search first Mr newbie! this one comes up at least once every 6 months <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Don't you think everyone at BPL would be doing it if itwere remotely possible <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> better yet ask it there, I need the entertainment <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#91380 - 02/26/08 07:35 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: Earthling]
blazer209 Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 31
Loc: California/central
Sorry, I'm on a forum so I don't have to do a search.It's the only real point of this site oldie.You should get some gold star for being a member for the last decade.

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#91381 - 02/26/08 08:27 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
MysticMoose Offline
member

Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 69
If you expect people to answer, then you might consider at least being polite...

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#91382 - 02/26/08 09:27 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
rockymtnhiker Offline
member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 38
I see both sides to this one.

Because it seems that everything that can possibly come up has come up in the past, if everybody just did searches this site would essentially become a database. It is good to get new thoughts on old topics occasionally. BUT asking a question like that is way too broad and does come up a lot. An example of a good way to phrase your question would be. What is the lightest weight sleeping system I could get away with in the (insert where traveling) in (insert conditions (season, altitude, length of trip, on/off trail, solo or not, etc...)). This type of question will recieve the best response in the beginner section also.

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#91383 - 02/26/08 11:06 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Yes, Unintentionally. Wearing a fleece and wool pants, with a hunting anorak overtop, in a snow/slushtorm in october in swan hills alberta, and putting an emergency blanket around myself,
and hiding my sorry butt under a spruce tree... No I wasn't lost I was stuck looking for some
flipping idiot who was, and we'd taken extraordinary measures after finding out he had a medical
condition. After humping through the likely area in the dark, till we were ready to drop we built a fire and bivyed out using the contents of our daypacks to wait for light and try to find the idiot. (We did, ended ok).

It's not my idea of pleasant. Matter of fact it's pretty darn uncomfortable.
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


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#91384 - 02/27/08 09:57 AM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Sorry, I'm on a forum so I don't have to do a search.It's the only real point of this site oldie.You should get some gold star for being a member for the last decade.


Michael, the guy (Earthling) you are talking to here deserves a gold star for putting up with rude jerks on this forum all these years. Earthling, has spent much time keeping this forum together and with order on a daily basis. You should hope that you will ever see and do even a fraction of what Earthling has seen and accomplished in his "oldie" days. He also has many, many, friends from around the globe that will stand up for him when he is needlessly attacked.

Perhaps you would prefer Second Life, in that virtual world, where very little societal noesis is required, you can be insulting and usually not expect any repercussions. Here, we are real people with a desire to treat others with the respect and dignity that normally comes with intelligent adult relationships.

Your question was vague and showed very little thought being put into even its formating. And, yes, it's been asked and answered many times. Wanting to start a topic with out first researching it is no big deal, I've made the same mistake. However, your insulting remarks to Earthling are just plain wrong. I think you owe him and us an apology. Brum

Proverbs 12: 15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But he who heeds counsel is wise.
_________________________



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#91385 - 02/27/08 02:38 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: Earthling]
SAMYADAMS Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Pacific Coast, Ca, USA
Man...some of you members kill me...its true Blazer...some people on here think because they post every single day, been a member for 3 years, and logged a bunch of bogus hikes that it gives them the right to act as a "MODERATOR".....

If something has been posted or asked on this site before, THEN....simply ignore it for the love of God!!! (its not the first and surely not the last time it will happen).

However to call someone a "newbie" and tell them what they "should do" ...pretty ignorant! Its those kinda people who try and make certain interests and activites privy to just "them or their little circle". No one on here cares how many people that one person knows or who can vouch for who...this is a forum not a POPULARITY CONTEST !!!

You wanna MODERATE a forum, then go start your own website or have your username made green !


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
"300+ Postings and Numerous Stories doesnt make you the Duty Expert....."

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#91386 - 02/27/08 03:15 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
blazer209 Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 31
Loc: California/central
Nobody was forced to respond to the question.My comments weren't any more harsh than the ones directed towards me.I guess that I'm no more immature than the other guy.I didn't think this was a popularity contest site.Looked like a sight for exchanging info and ideas.Excuse me for asking a question without eliminating any amount of questionable circumstance.Everyone take note, "newbie" is acceptable "oldie" is not.

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#91387 - 02/27/08 03:16 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: MysticMoose]
blazer209 Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 31
Loc: California/central
Talk to that other guy about being polite.All I did was post a question.

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#91388 - 02/27/08 09:43 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Blazer, after all of your ranting do you really expect anyone to take you seriously?

Quote:
Anyone just tried to go lite to the max end of the spectrum?


Yep, questions don't get much more clear or concise than that <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

If you think you can ask any question you want without doing a search, so be it. But you have to consider that others can also give you any answer they want. You said it yourself, this is an internet forum.
_________________________
If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*

* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.

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#91389 - 02/27/08 11:07 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: Brumfield]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Quote:
Michael, the guy (Earthling) you are talking to here deserves a gold star for putting up with rude jerks on this forum all these years. Earthling, has spent much time keeping this forum together and with order on a daily basis. You should hope that you will ever see and do even a fraction of what Earthling has seen and accomplished in his "oldie" days. He also has many, many, friends from around the globe that will stand up for him when he is needlessly attacked.


I'm of two minds about responding to this thread at all, but...

Earthling's response to the OP was rude, and he received rudeness in return. Although I usually enjoy Earthling's posts, I fail to see how he or any other member, aside from the moderators, has "kept this forum together."

This forum is unusual in that most of the members are generally civil to each other despite their differences of opinion and experience. Personally, I'd like it to stay that way.

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#91390 - 02/28/08 05:06 AM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Everybody, please shake hands and go back to your corners. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We're friends here. (not directed at Blazer, only!!)

Blazer, yes, this subject does come up often and a search will reveal much....... however, part of the fun of 'ultralight' backpacking is the 'research and development' of gear for your personal tastes. I call it "back yard testing". If you don't get satisfactory answers from a forum, give your idea a practical try on the patio and report your results here. I did that with hammocks in my back yard and there I learned what really worked and what was hype. All those alky stoves you read about were invented that way too. So, go spend $3 on some mylar and give it a try. You might discover something the rest of us don't know.
My personal feeling is, an emergency foil/mylar 'blanket' will shred after the first evening, as a bag. Below 60 deg. it's going to be really cold. ( I do use them slung under my hammocks as a wind break.) A cotton bed sheet is heavy, compared to other materials, and deadlier than wet down....it will get wet from condensation due to the foil/mylar's inability to breath.
Give your idea a try....a few feet from your back door <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />....and tell us what happened. Good science is about learning from successes as well as failures.

Cheers!
Paul
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#91391 - 02/28/08 09:12 AM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
Nobody was forced to respond to the question.My comments weren't any more harsh than the ones directed towards me.I guess that I'm no more immature than the other guy.I didn't think this was a popularity contest site.Looked like a sight for exchanging info and ideas.Excuse me for asking a question without eliminating any amount of questionable circumstance.Everyone take note, "newbie" is acceptable "oldie" is not.


Ok Blazer, I'll be the stand up guy that I am and apologize to you, as a new member here; for showing my bias towards doing a bit of research myself before I pose a question.

Do you think you are the first person to join this forum and ask such a basic question? No, I did'nt think so; what you failed to include in your post were more specific items such as your personal experiences with gear, and where you intended to use it.

Have you ever zipped up a dead human in a body bag; after finding them dead from the elements with 'seemingly' perfectly adequate equiptment by their side? I have, more than a dozen times in the past 35 years. Did it make me feel superior to them because I was the one doing the zipping? No, it humbled me to the point that I am now regularly willing to make an a** out of myself to save your family from having to deal with the same. I gave years of my life volunteering my services as a volunteer SAR and tracker; I have 35 years of real life experience in the bush, deserts, tropical areas, and the ocean. Should I just keep my knowledge to myself about the risks I have taken; or let you learn the 'hard way' <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I stick my neck out everytime I post here BECAUSE I have seen death, and come pretty da*n close myself a few times. Case in point, go down to 'Off Topics' and look at Earthling's Seaweed adventure photos. Yeah, that's a 60 foot sailboat that I built with my own 2 hands, sailed halfway around the World alone; and ended up aborting the trip because I suffered a mild concussion 300 miles offshore. You see that photo of the guy with no shirt, manchu moustache? that's me, 3 days before I got to a harbor and collapsed over the wheel of my boat while I was motoring in. A few folks on other boats witnessed this and came to my aid.I would've likely crashed into either another vessel or run ashore, dying in the process had it not been for them. I feel the same way here, if I see a new member heading for shore unconcsicous I yell 'Hey newbie!". I'd much rather you be pissed at me than have you end up like the guy who 'thought' he was prepared to go backpacking and died in the Ozarks last month 10 miles from the trailhead, WITH all his high tech gear right next to him. Yeah, cause of death unknown, I still say hypothermia and I'm sticking to it from what I know of the case.

Welcome Blazer, I have no idea if you're 9 or 99. I do not wish to have folks 'grab n go' with info from here; only so we can read about their sudden demise on a trail somewhere, excuse me for being so rude to you, no honestly, it's your life.


Edited by Earthling (02/28/08 09:19 AM)
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#91392 - 02/28/08 06:36 PM Re: sleeping system "Ignorant" ? [Re: SAMYADAMS]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Sam Adams wrote:
Quote:
...some people on here think because they post every single day, been a member for 3 years, and logged a bunch of bogus hikes that it gives them the right to act as a "MODERATOR".....

However to call someone a "newbie" and tell them what they "should do" ...pretty ignorant ! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Brumfield wrote:

Sam, here's what comes up under the word "ignorant" in WordWeb Pro

Ignorant
1.Uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication
"an ignorant man"

2.Uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field under discussion
"he is ignorant of quantum mechanics"

3. Unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge
"he was completely ignorant of the circumstances"

Sam, just so that you would not remain ignorant of the circumstances involving Earthling's qualifications, which more than merit his right to admonish a newbie for his careless remarks on this forum, you should consider the following taken from his own words on another post under this same topic:

Earthling wrote:
"Have you ever zipped up a dead human in a body bag; after finding them dead from the elements with 'seemingly' perfectly adequate equiptment by their side? I have, more than a dozen times in the past 35 years. Did it make me feel superior to them because I was the one doing the zipping? No, it humbled me to the point that I am now regularly willing to make an a** out of myself to save your family from having to deal with the same. I gave years of my life volunteering my services as a volunteer SAR and tracker; I have 35 years of real life experience in the bush, deserts, tropical areas, and the ocean. Should I just keep my knowledge to myself about the risks I have taken; or let you learn the 'hard way' I stick my neck out everytime I post here BECAUSE I have seen death, and come pretty da*n close myself a few times.

Case in point, go down to 'Off Topics' and look at Earthling's Seaweed adventure photos. Yeah, that's a 60 foot sailboat that I built with my own 2 hands, sailed halfway around the World alone; and ended up aborting the trip because I suffered a mild concussion 300 miles offshore. You see that photo of the guy with no shirt, manchu mustache? that's me, 3 days before I got to a harbor and collapsed over the wheel of my boat while I was motoring in. A few folks on other boats witnessed this and came to my aid.I would've likely crashed into either another vessel or run ashore, dying in the process had it not been for them. I feel the same way here, if I see a new member heading for shore unconscious I yell 'Hey newbie!". I'd much rather you be pissed at me than have you end up like the guy who 'thought' he was prepared to go backpacking and died in the Ozarks last month 10 miles from the trailhead, WITH all his high tech gear right next to him. Yeah, cause of death unknown, I still say hypothermia and I'm sticking to it from what I know of the case.

Welcome Blazer, I have no idea if you're 9 or 99. I do not wish to have folks 'grab n go' with info from here; only so we can read about their sudden demise on a trail somewhere, excuse me for being so rude to you, no honestly, it's your life."

No, Sam, it's not a "popularity contest", and neither is it a place for posting unthinking ideas and remarks that may be taken up by others (less informed) as being valid. But you are partly correct in your remarks, there is a certain "circle" of people on this forum, and they are those that have decades of backpacking and outdoor experience, both in sport and professionally, and it is they which rally around keeping the forum safe from foolish and risk inducing remarks by newbies or others that remain ignorant of the risks. Brum
_________________________



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#91393 - 02/28/08 06:54 PM Re: sleeping system "Ignorant" ? [Re: Brumfield]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Honestly Barry, it's sad that people can plug in their computers but fail to read the screen <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Just think about a site like this being all newbies, while all the rest of us are out enjoying ourselves on the trails this year. I'm hiking along thinking of all the folks who are clueless asking one another about things none of them are familiar with. Getting bug bit is the least of a newbies problem. Hypothermia is THE number one killer out there because you can't help yourslef once it takes hold of you. Like I said, it's your life, better respect yourself enough to be patient to learn. It may not take you 35 years to learn what I know, but you ain't gonna learn it from no computer on this Planet in 35 minutes my friend <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#91394 - 02/28/08 08:24 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
blazer209 Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 31
Loc: California/central
All I did was post a question, that obviously didn't measure up to some supposed standard.People are still calling me names,yet I never called anyone anything,besides "oldie".That was in response to being called "newbie".I don't spend hours,ever, online.I just figured maybe someone would have some interesting stories about their own experiences with going light as possible.
Now persons that were telling me to try being polite are the ones calling me names.Whatever.

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#91395 - 02/29/08 12:43 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
SAMYADAMS Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Pacific Coast, Ca, USA
Blazer,
Just let them be, some people can only hold themselves up in their own illusion (A visually perceived image that is deceptive or misleading)...and the ones they illude (to deceive) around them...

...Brum, thanks for the definition update, however as patronizing as you might of wanted it to be, I thought it was hilarious! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> You can really tell when you get someones goat <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I bet you spent all night masterminding that reply ! - Good Job (even though I didnt bother to read the entire thing)...

Next...some of you may want to start filing your taxes together... I've never witnessed the level of romanticizing as I have on this forum...wow... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Finally, Earthling, I dont know how people have survived as long as they have without knowing everything that you know... must be from this thing we learn from, called "personal experiences".... I cant believe I've made it this far ...


Sincerely,
Lucky to be Alive <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
"300+ Postings and Numerous Stories doesnt make you the Duty Expert....."

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#91396 - 02/29/08 12:45 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: Dryer]
SAMYADAMS Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Pacific Coast, Ca, USA
Well said Paul...
_________________________
"300+ Postings and Numerous Stories doesnt make you the Duty Expert....."

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#91397 - 02/29/08 01:37 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Wow, this one went a little crazy. No comment.

As to the OP. No, I haven't tried it. Sorry. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#91398 - 02/29/08 03:04 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: blazer209]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
If you get to the woods and not use your system you will be a "foil wrapped chicken". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#91399 - 02/29/08 08:17 PM Re: sleeping system [Re: bigfoot2]
just_another_Joe Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 117
If the OP starts weighing the gear, he will find that the foil is light and the other layer is somewhat heavy. The combo will weigh near as much as a more expensive, light sleeping bag. The military offers a poncho and a thin, synthetic insulated blanket called a poncho liner. The users there tend to be quite fit and experienced.

I've spent a night out in clothing with a balaclava and a mylar emergency blanket, not those mylar bags that are now available. I did a solo kayak trip on New Year's Day then expected to hitchhike the shuttle. Hitchhiking after dark on an Apache Indian reservation didn't work. I walked until midnight, found some wood for a fire, then laid on the ground until daylight. I survived that lesson and do not recommend it to others. Wind blowing on plastic sheeting feels just like cold plastic against you.

I've tried the OP's question and found the gear lacking. We are now back on topic, if anyone else wants to comment on mylar and a sheet as bivy gear.

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