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#195013 - 04/21/16 04:53 AM Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions
NickVonMO Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado
First off, I'm a newbie. Actually I'm more of a "want-to-be-a-newbie" as I haven't started doing anything back country yet (car camping to date). My questions are based off what little knowledge I have gathered so far; I would greatly appreciate any shared wisdom.

For context I'm 23, male, 5'9", 130lb, in reasonable hiking shape, but so far I've only made day trips of maybe 12-15 miles max and limited pack weight in the Colorado Rockies.

What I'm looking for:
-2 Person Tent to share with girlfriend (and while solo) while backpacking in a variety of climates (alpine, desert, jungle, all of it)
-3 Season (down to 25 deg F at the lowest, mostly 40 deg F or warmer)
-Double Layered
-Bathtub floor
-Vestibule space
-Prefer to stay below $200; mostly I figure I'm not experienced enough to know what I really want/need and would rather not shell out a ton on something that may not be what I really like.

Now, a general question on tents, quality and pricing.

What really is the difference between a $100, $200 and $400 tent? As an example...

-$109 on Amazon: Alps Mountaineering Lynx 2: ~5.5lb, 37 ft2 tent, 20 ft2 vestibule, 6" x 20.5" packed
-$219 at REI: REI Half Dome 2 Plus: ~5 lb, 38 ft2 tent, 20 ft2 vestibule, 7" x 21" packed
-$250 at MSR: Elixir 2: ~4.9 lb, 29 ft2 tent, 17.5 ft2 vestibule, 7" x 20" packed
-$400 at MSR: Hubba Hubba NX 2: ~3.5lb, 29 ft2 tent, 17.5 ft2 vestibule, 6" x 18" packed

All have 2 doors and vestibules. The Lynx and Half dome seem near identical but $100 difference in price. The Elixir, however, is roughly the same weight with far less space yet $30 more than the Half Dome and $130 more than the Lynx. Finally the Hubba Hubba is the Elixir except 1.5 lb lighter with a smaller packed size but a whopping $400!

I can chalk some of the price hike up to weight savings/smaller packed size with the Hubba Hubba, but otherwise I'm baffled at the price differences, especially with the Elixir being so small relative to the cheaper two. Is there a huge quality difference between these tents otherwise? Are there small features included in the MSR tents which warrant the price hike?

This is just an example, but I'm trying to understand what exactly separates the expensive tents from the cheap ones, and when (or if) it is really worth the added cost.

Thank you all for your help!


Edited by NickVonMO (04/21/16 05:06 AM)

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#195015 - 04/21/16 08:39 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
toddfw2003 Offline
member

Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Loc: Texas
None of those nets are light. Anything under 200 dollars is going to be heavy. This is the lightweight forum btw. Lighter tents are more expensive because companies use lightweight material that is more expensive. Check out the Big Agnes Flycreek 2 or some of the Tarptents. You are going to pay more than 200. If you just have to be cheap buy two eureka solataires, seam seal the hell out of it and make your girlfriend carry her own tent

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#195017 - 04/21/16 10:36 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
BrRabbit Offline
member

Registered: 03/15/16
Posts: 58
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
1) You don't need a double-walled tent. Regular 1-walled tent will work perfectly fine even in the winter. At least here, in Wisconsin, it does.

2) A tarp is way more comfortable than a tent. Unless you want to hike in Alaska in the winter, or in Antarctica.

3) Hammock (in addition to a tarp) raises you above moisture and dirt. That's a better way to deal with it than bathtub floor, imho.

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#195018 - 04/21/16 10:56 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: toddfw2003]
balzaccom Online   content
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2232
Loc: Napa, CA
Originally Posted By toddfw2003
None of those nets are light.... If you just have to be cheap buy two eureka solataires, seam seal the hell out of it and make your girlfriend carry her own tent


True enough. But if you LIKE your girlfriend, and want her to continue to enjoy backpacking with you, get a two-person tent and carry it.

With every piece of backpacking equipment, there are compromises. The basic criteria are weight, quality of construction, cost, and integrity in weather. If you are only taking trips when the weather report calls for clear skies, you may not need a tent at all--depending on where you live and how accurate your local weather man is. We did a trip like this in Death Valley this spring.

But those of us who hike regularly know that even a nice forecast can turn nasty in the mountains. In that case, we want at least some basic protection from rain and wind. If it can snow where you hike, then that adds another element to the mix, and you need a better/stronger tent.

I hiked for years as a younger person with a $5 tube tent that weighed less than a pound. It had no screens, so sometimes the bugs drove me wild. It was more or less waterproof, and that's all that mattered to me. And I had some great trips.

Now that I hike with my wife, we want screens, and we hike where it can snow or sleet sometimes. That means a better. more expensive, and heavier tent.

The REI Half Dome is a good starter tent. Anything less expensive than that would worry me. The malfunction of a single zipper on a tent can make the whole trip a lot more difficult.

And if you get serious about backpacking, you'll eventually want a lightweight tent. You don't need one for a few overnight trips a year. But when you decide to hike for six days and have to carry all that food, the extra two or three pounds for the tent seem a lot heavier. But by that time you'll be married, and your wife will want to participate in the decision...to get a really good tent because you both love backpacking so much.
_________________________
Check our our website: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/

Or just read a good mystery novel set in the Sierra; https://www.amazon.com/Danger-Falling-Rocks-Paul-Wagner/dp/0984884963

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#195019 - 04/21/16 11:33 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
I think you can do better.

Normally I am in agreement with Balz on staying away from cheap tents, but I don't think Alps Mountaineering is a low quality tent. It along with Kelty are the type of low end tents that I would say are fine. It is not as high quality as an MSR but I don't think it is without merit. A good budget tent. However, I wouldn't consider the Lynx a good backpacking tent. It's very heavy.

As a newbie, the hardest thing to get across is how important to backpacking cutting weight is. A few trips with a heavy pack and you will figure it out. Most weight loss can occur by not bringing stuff with you. However, once you spend money on a tent you will be reluctant to spend the money on another tent. This is a lesson many of us have learned the hard way and are trying to help you with.

With that in mind how about the REI Dash 2:

https://www.rei.com/product/862419/rei-dash-2-tent

$200 and 2.5 lbs

or:

https://www.rei.com/product/865393/big-agnes-fly-creek-ul-2-tent

$260 and under 2 lbs.

Both are really good values right now.

If you want more room and vestibule space, I would look at Tarptent. But they start at $260:

https://www.tarptent.com/allproducts.html

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#195023 - 04/21/16 02:13 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: BZH]
4evrplan Offline
member

Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
The Fly Creek UL2 sold out on REI, not surprising at that price.
_________________________
The journey is more important than the destination.

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#195025 - 04/21/16 04:09 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: 4evrplan]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Originally Posted By 4evrplan
The Fly Creek UL2 sold out on REI, not surprising at that price.


both I linked are now sold out frown

both were exceptional deals.

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#195026 - 04/21/16 04:19 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
In the big picture, neither a pound up or down nor cost $100 up or down, is a critical issue. A $400 tent is not necessarily better than an $200 tent. Basically you are paying for lighter weight materials of similar or better quality.

All the brands below are reputable. MSR (and North Face) makes reliable, albeit, heavier high-end but very weather-worthy tents. Eureka is a reputable lower-end tent maker with heavier and cheaper tents that are still OK. Sierra Designs is very innovative, sometimes coming out with a wonderful tent but sometimes a flop. Big Agnes makes lots of models, most with duplicates- a pricy "UL" version and a heavier version that costs about half. Both have similar features. You are just paying for lighter weight. The British equivalent of Big Agnes is Terra Nova. REI makes very generic looking tents that somewhat copy the high-end design of other manufacturers. They too usually have a light/expensive version and heavier/cheaper version of some models. There is an equivalent company in the east (EMS??). MEC is the Canadian equivalent of REI. Cottage tent makers (only available on internet) offer more innovative designs, mostly focusing on lighter weight. These are Tarptent, Six Moons, etc. Hillberg (Swedish?) make high end, extremely sturdy (think use in harsh wind-swept tundra conditions) at extremely high prices in spite of the higher weights.

Shelter is one of the MOST important items backpacking. Regardless of weight or cost, if it does not protect you from the elements, it is not a good choice. And included in "elements" are bugs. As a person who the mosquitoes, ticks, etc. prefer, I would not go without a completely bug-proof shelter.

If the shelter makes backpacking unpleasant then it is not a good choice. Everyone has a different opinion of comfort. Most beginners do not have the skills/experience to be comfortable in many of the minimalist shelters available. Be aware that many "2-man" tents sold are exceptionally small and cramped. You really need to go to stores and try out tents. Ask to have the tent set up and then, with shoes off, both you and your girlfriend, get inside. Imagine how it would be to spend a day inside the tent when it is raining all day. Simple set-up is also better for beginners. Set up and take down the tent in the store. Try the zippers - do they catch? Can you zip with one hand? Is the tent door placed so that you do not get wet entering and exiting if it is raining?

As for single wall vs double wall; tent vs tarp, I would never tell someone that single wall is fine. I have had many nights tarps, single wall, double wall. I really do feel a beginner is better off with a bathtub floor. Even the experienced make mistakes and set up in poor drainage. More likely a beginner will do this.

As for all the "reviews" and recommendations out there on the internet. Be careful. Do not necessarily heed the recommendations of PCT, ACT, or other "light and fast" through hikers. These folks MUST have light gear in order to achieve the mileage. They are willing to "suffer" a bit and accustomed to minimalistic gear. With experience, what beginners see as "less comfort" or "suffering" is not that bad; but I do think this is not something you realize first night out or without more experience! I feel it is more important to not get immediately turned off to backpacking.

Be sure to include your girlfriend in the selection. Keep an eye out for sales. I think you are going in the right direction with the criteria you listed. Of course, after more experienced, you can focus on reducing weight with a more minimalistic shelter.

Listed prices are artificial- there are ALWAYS sales out there. Generally, last year's models are cheaper than the new models.


I think your criteria of bathtub floor, double wall, and vestibule space are just fine. Decide if you prefer free-standing or not. Independent pole set-up or trekking pole set-up.

Most of us are not using the tent we started with. The more important thing is to buy an adequate, but not necessarily idea tent and get started! The more you backpack, the more you will know what you really want.

Seriously re-think your cost limits. If a tent were $50 more, how could you come up with that $50? Perhaps, just eliminating a few dinners out, skip the Starbucks, a few less beers over a month's time. Most of us, even the "poor" can come up with this. If you find the ideal tent, only $50 more than your limit, do not eliminate it from consideration.

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#195027 - 04/21/16 05:13 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: toddfw2003]
NickVonMO Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado

Poster: toddfw2003
Subject: Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions

"None of those nets are light. Anything under 200 dollars is going to be heavy. This is the lightweight forum btw."

I apologize for perhaps posting in the incorrect forum. While there is a "Lite Gear" board, there doesn't seem to be any "Regular Gear" board.

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#195028 - 04/21/16 05:51 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: wandering_daisy]
NickVonMO Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado
Thank you to all the responses, I have learned a lot just by exploring some of the points brought up.

However, I think @wandering_daisy understood where I was coming from. I'm not trying to buy my first and last ever tent. I'm looking for something that will strike a balance between quality, cost, weight while also being forgiving/flexible enough for a beginner. It's my test run tent so to speak.

While I hate the idea of buying another tent, tarp, hammock whatever down the road, I recognize that inevitably I will buy something else once I know what suites me. Maybe I'll go full minimalist, or maybe I'll realize I can suffer a little more weight for the extra comforts / peace of mind with a heavier tent. I think it would be foolish to drop $600 or more now and then go back to the drawing board again in a year or two for another $600+ shelter.

However, I hadn't even realized using tarps by themselves was a thing and at first glance it seems very appealing. I'm still inclined to use a tent, however, as it seems more reassuring should I find myself in a heavy storm. And believe me, I'm not the type who will shy away from a trip due to a thunderstorm.


Edited by NickVonMO (04/21/16 05:52 PM)

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#195029 - 04/21/16 06:48 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
bluefish Offline
member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 680
You don't need to spend 600 bucks to get a 3 lb. tent. On the other hand, I've seen some new 100+ Keltys fail miserably in a downpour, whereas; my 300 night use Big Agnes Fly Creek stayed dry. Apples to apples, same storm, same campsite. I see you live in Colorado. If you plan to take the tent in the mountains, expect them to be subjected to high wind and severe thunderstorms. Cheap won't survive. I was miserable on many trips when I was younger, from the extreme nature of the trips, or from not having the funds for better gear. My absolute love of being in wilderness overrode the discomfort. You need to decide where your limits are. Your girlfriend may have a different take. If you do go out with cheap gear, just remember- getting soaked in the middle of the night , miles from the trailhead is a recipe for hypothermia. Whatever you buy, test it in the backyard or car camping first.
_________________________
Charlie

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#195030 - 04/21/16 10:41 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
You didn't post in the wrong place. What "this is a lightweight forum" means is that most of us who post regularly at backpacking.net are into "hiking light", carrying less than 15 (at most 20) pounds of gear (excluding food and water) when we hike; personally, I'm at about 12 - 15, depending on season. So, our advice is going to be biased in favor of lighter, more technical, and more expensive gear.

However, we all remember starting out right where you are, and looking for decent gear on a budget. There's nothing wrong with that - just remind us that you're on a budget and willing to carry more weight when you ask for recommendations, and we'll adjust for that.

Hang around here long enough, and we'll corrupt you, too! smile

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#195031 - 04/21/16 10:43 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Daisy did nail it. She does that a lot, as you'll find out!

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#195037 - 04/22/16 10:15 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
BrRabbit Offline
member

Registered: 03/15/16
Posts: 58
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Originally Posted By NickVonMO

However, I hadn't even realized using tarps by themselves was a thing and at first glance it seems very appealing. I'm still inclined to use a tent, however, as it seems more reassuring should I find myself in a heavy storm. And believe me, I'm not the type who will shy away from a trip due to a thunderstorm.


Check this URL - http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-camping-101/
With a hammock and a bigger "winter" tarp with doors... Man, you're protected in any downpour much better than you'd ever be in a tent. But, I honestly just want to offer you another perspective smile you make your own campsite.

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#195038 - 04/22/16 03:09 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: bluefish]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Speaking of the Fly Creek I saw a new FC2 set up last night at REI and as a current owner, I definitely endorse the refresh. Made a good tent better (including more room).

Cheers,
_________________________
--Rick

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#195039 - 04/22/16 05:29 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
Nobody is recommending you buy a $600 tent. What people are recommending is that you add lightweight to your desired list of features. And I agree with Daisy in that you have a fine list of tents, I stand by what I said: I think you can do better.

Case in point:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/alps-mountaineering-zenith-2-al-tent-2-person-3-season~p~1480d/?filterString=tents~d~228%2Fspecdataor~capacity!2%2F&colorFamily=03

4 lbs and $130

A pound won't kill you, but unless you put some energy into keeping your pack weight low it will balloon on you. You are less likely to have a good time backpacking if your pack is heavy and less likely to keep the sport up.

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#195128 - 04/27/16 10:28 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
edfardos Offline
member

Registered: 04/26/16
Posts: 35
Loc: CA
Price, durability and weight. Choose two.

Also, consider a 3 person tent for two people. The industry is consistently tight in this regard.

The Alps Lynx Two is what I used by myself for 7 nights in the Desolation Wilderness. Durable, inexpensive, and heavy. Its a fine choice. Big Agnes makes light/expensive tents, but they can be fragile. Msr and North face strike more of a balance IMHO.

I started a similar thread, so I'm curious what you come up with, especially if you consider a 3 person tent! Let us know what you choose and why! My problem is my height.... You should be okay at 5 foot something.


Edfardos


Edited by edfardos (04/27/16 10:30 AM)

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#195145 - 04/28/16 02:18 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: BrRabbit]
NickVonMO Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By BrRabbit
Originally Posted By NickVonMO

However, I hadn't even realized using tarps by themselves was a thing and at first glance it seems very appealing. I'm still inclined to use a tent, however, as it seems more reassuring should I find myself in a heavy storm. And believe me, I'm not the type who will shy away from a trip due to a thunderstorm.


Check this URL - http://theultimatehang.com/hammock-camping-101/
With a hammock and a bigger "winter" tarp with doors... Man, you're protected in any downpour much better than you'd ever be in a tent. But, I honestly just want to offer you another perspective smile you make your own campsite.


This is an excellent article series! Thanks for sharing.

Really the primary reason I hadn't delved into the hammock route was the desire for comfortable sleeping next to a partner. Had planned on getting two bags which were able to zip together (anyone found good bags for this?). I just can't imagine being comfortable doing this when not laying on the ground. I'd love the hammock route for solo trips, but just can't justify buying both a solo hammock setup and a 2-person tent setup at this point.

Would rather just "suffer" carrying the extra weight of a two person tent when hiking solo to start.


Edited by NickVonMO (04/28/16 02:35 AM)

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#195146 - 04/28/16 02:41 AM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: BZH]
NickVonMO Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/16
Posts: 8
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By BZH
Nobody is recommending you buy a $600 tent. What people are recommending is that you add lightweight to your desired list of features. And I agree with Daisy in that you have a fine list of tents, I stand by what I said: I think you can do better.

Case in point:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/alps-mountaineering-zenith-2-al-tent-2-person-3-season~p~1480d/?filterString=tents~d~228%2Fspecdataor~capacity!2%2F&colorFamily=03

4 lbs and $130

A pound won't kill you, but unless you put some energy into keeping your pack weight low it will balloon on you. You are less likely to have a good time backpacking if your pack is heavy and less likely to keep the sport up.


I've looked around some and it's become clear to me that finding a sub 3 lb, 2 person tent is entirely feasible while maintaining a reasonable budget. My original "$200 limit" was listed precisely because responses tend to suggest "well if you spend $50 more...". In reality I'm fine spending closer to $300 on a quality tent, but didn't want to have that followed up by responses of "well if you spend $400....".

Keeping my pack small and light is of high concern to me, more so after this thread. Indeed in life, not just backpacking, I'm realizing the joys and freedom afforded by a minimalist perspective more and more.

You were entirely right. I can do better.


Edited by NickVonMO (04/28/16 03:34 AM)

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#195153 - 04/28/16 01:31 PM Re: Tents (for 2).....and newbie tent questions [Re: NickVonMO]
Glenn Roberts Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 2208
Loc: Southwest Ohio
"You were entirely right. I can do better."

That sounds exactly like my wife, the last time she admitted I was right. smile

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