I've been looking at these things online, and some of them talk about being rain/wind/snow proof, and others say that they're suppose to be used with a tarp, tent, etc.

I already have a eureka zeus solo tent, and it was the lightest freestanding tent I could find for the money, which is why I bought it. I've done a fair amount of bicycle touring, and some overnight hikes, but the weight of some of the bivies I've seen is 1/2 to 1/3 the size and weight of my tent. I plan on hitch hiking to alaska this year (at least attempting to), and I'd like to save as much weight as possible obviously.

I won't be doing any week long wilderness hikes or anything, but I will be camping pretty much every night to save money. So are the cheaper bivies (under $150) durable enough and weather resistant enough that they'd be worth buying and taking over the tent I already have? Some of the descriptions I've read on a few of the bivies give me the impression that they have no form of netting to keep out bugs and whatnot too. I'm not real big on having insects crawling on my face all night, so this is another concern, and if bivies are only meant to be emergency shelters or short term minimalist shelters for people who are into roughing it more than I am, then that probably won't work for me either.

Also, if a bivy is capable of what I want to do, can someone reccomend a good cheap one? Thanks.

Bivies are a viable lightweight shelter option, but there are a few considerations that go along with them. (You can obtain some wonderfully-crafted ultralight bivies from online "cottage" makers such as Mountain Laurel Designs, but since I don't have any experience with them, I'm excluding them from what follows.)

First, the lightest of the commercially-available bivies typically do not have bug netting. Of the ones that do have bug netting, there's not enough to overcome the lack of ventilation (more in a minute). If they do have adequate bug netting, like the Integral Designs Salathe (waist-length panel), the weight runs up toward 2 pounds or more. There are some all-mesh bug bivies available - but they aren't very waterproof, as you may have guessed.

Which leads to the second consideration. Personally, I've never used a bivy without at least a 5x8 silnylon tarp, and usually an 8x10. When it's raining, this gives you a place to cook, or to enter and leave the bivy without getting everything wet. It also lets you leave the mesh open during the rain (a shaped tarp, like the ID Silshelter, may even make an all-netting bug bivy a very feasible option.) Of course, you've now added half a pound or pound to your shelter.

So, a really versatile tarp and bivy combo can weigh almost 3 pounds - which is why I eventually quit using my ID Salathe and Silshelter combo. For many years, the lightest tent around still weighed over 4 pounds and, since solo tents weren't as common, you ended up using a two-person tent that weighed 5 or more pounds. So, even a "heavy" tarp and bivy combo like mine saved a big chunk of weight. However, with the proliferation of solo tents (MSR Hubba and Big Agnes Seedhouse SL1, to name two), the weight advantage vanished and I began using tents again because they were more convenient.

Ventilation is an issue in a bivy - weatherproof bivies sacrifice ventilation, so using them in the summer in hotter areas of the country can be a problem, at best, and totally miserable, at worst.

If you want something lightweight, I'd recommend either of the tents I already mentioned. I'd also suggest you look at an even lighter alternative, the Shires TarpTents. Although I've never been able to get the warm fuzzies over them myself, they are well-designed, incredibly light but roomy, well-built and they have armies of fans. I've never found anything objectively wrong with them; I just like my Hubba better for no particular reason. A Tarptent might be just the ticket for what you're planning.

However, if you still want to give bivies a try, REI's Minimalist at $90 or $100 is a really good deal (and I think there's a 20% off coupon code floating out there in connection with the Anniversary sale?) on a fully functional weatherproof bivy that weighs only a pound and has bug netting over the face hole - but nowhere else, so it can get hot in the summer.

I'm not an expert but when I was looking at bivies I was surprised at how different they were.

The very light ones are not waterproof, just splash resistant. These tend to be made out of light, water resistant fabrics like Epic. They are designed to be used in connection with a tarp. Others are closer to waterproof and are made of the same kind of stuff a rain coat is made of. In these type of bivies the concern is more about getting wet from condensation than from precipitation. In that way they are more like a small tent but with even less circulation.

Many bivies, but not all, have a bug screen that you can zip that will totally protect you from the bugs.

I own an inexpensive bivy that I like. It's an REI minimalist bivy. Very cheap for what you get. It has bug netting built in. Quite waterproof except that between your face and the sky the only thing is the bug netting. When I use it I just drape my raincoat over that opening if it starts to rain or snow. That solution isn't very stormproof though since a strong wind would carry my raincoat away. I mostly use it in snow conditions. I think winter is really the time for a bivy as it adds considerable warmth to your bag rating.

If you aren't that concerned about your bag getting wet (like the bag isn't made of down and has a water resistant outer) then I would be strongly tempted to just use a tarp rather than a tent and forget the bivy. You can't get lighter than that. And if you're expecting a storm you can pitch it really close to the ground and windblown rain isn't much of a concern (provided the tarp isn't tiny). If you use trekking poles then you always have something to pitch it with as well, even in an area with no trees. I guess running out of trees seems unlikely on the way to Alaska, buy hey, I don't know, I've never hitched to Alaska.

Have fun!

There's a difference between saving as much weight as possible and as much weight as practical. Given your needs, a bivy will save you a little weight but cost you a lot of convenience. If bugs or even light showers are possible do you really want to be confined in a bivy "coffin" for hours on end?

Everything but sleeping is much more of a hassle in a bivy. How will you change your clothes? Where will you hang out if it's raining? What will you cook under?

Besides, some bivies weigh more than some tents. As mentioned above it's best to have a tarp with a bivy. That requires stakes and guylines. And you may want a ground cloth under the bivy. All this stuff adds up to almost the weight of a tent and without the weather/bug protection.

Bivies have their niche. I own and use them myself. But for your situation they're not the best choice. I think you'll be much happier in a tarptent.

Hennessey Ultralight hammock. Oh I'm sorry you said bivy. I have an OR Advanced bivy. 39 ounces and durable. Damp in humid weather. Wet when you get in and out during periods of rain. Wet if its raining and you want to cook. Oherwise very dry and very durable. Works better in winter. Roomy (for a sack).

I think a bivy would be just fine in your case. Cost may be a factor, but I would look at any bivy made out of eVent. They are waterproof (not just resistant) and breathable to the point that I have never had condensation in my (two). Integral designs makes some of the best. Add a 9x7 silnylon or spinaker tarp. Some weigh as little as 7 oz (see Mountain Laurel Designs). Add a removable bug net to the tarp (about 3-4 oz. See Gossamer Gear). For around 16-24 ounces you will have a very versatile shelter with these benefits:

-ultimate flexibility with this type of modular system.
-superier weather proofing. Note: Silnylon is not waterproof. Anything over 1-1.5 psi of moisture will mist through. The eVent will keep you very protected.
-warmer for the weight. A good bivy will minimize heat loss due to convection (i.e. the wind stealing preacious body heat), something that I suspect you will face in Alaska.
-Bug netting that hangs from the inside of a tarp is optional. In situations (i.e. no bugs and protected), just roll out the bivy and hop in.
-Tarp - if reasonably large will give you more 'move around' room than an ultralight tent. It will also permit multiple pitching options (i.e. food prep area, cooking area, sun or rain protection at mid day without having to take off your boots, etc). It will also afford room to change clothes, do a dance, act as a huge vestibule, whatever.

In any event, there are a lot of choices and bivy + tarp works, as do tarptents, freestanding framed tents, etc. Really it is a matter of finding out what will work for you and I believe a bivy + tarp (you would not need it at alpine levels but should take one in all others) would work for you.

http://www.rei.com/product/747832

I saw this one on sale.

We have this same discussion about once a month or so. Search through the archives using the search engine and they should show up. Set the "newer than" box to 1 year and one such discussion will show up for sure.

I have a Bibler Winter Bivy, but that's just to keep my bag dry. It just looks like a sleeping bag cover with a zipper.

The fancier bivys, to me, are more for climbers who don't want the high profile of a tent in nasty conditions. Other than that, I think they have been superceded by the new lightweight tents, such as Henry's Tarptents, SMD and a couple of others.

I would much rather be in the tiniest tent than a bivy, especially in bad weather.

A bivvy sack doesn't necessarily add weight to one's pack, provided equivalent weight is subtracted (in theory) from sleeping bag.

.I partly justify taking a one-pound bivvy by using it mostly with a one-pound sleeping bag with ultra-flimsy shell.. Taken together in benign conditions, this set-up is nearly warm as an equivalent two-pound sleeping bag, and much warmer in any sort of breeze.

The cover, with waterproof "floor," largely protects bag and its stuffing from mud, moisture, floods, snow, abrasion, etc. thus enabling a more carefree attitude toward sleeping arrangements. Separate slight plus: Stuff sack & stuffing become redundant..

Also, the bivvy (the top of mine isn't waterproof) can be used by itself, with or without some extra clothing, and/or with a winter sleeping bag, lending versatility to equipment.

Entering or exiting bivvy in the rain would potentially drench sleeping bag, and hanging out in a storm would be unpleasant and impractical. A one-pound SilShelter or any of numerous similar rigs would add lots of comfort in storms, along with a small bit of warmth.

Often if there's no rain I don't bother with a roof and with sleeping bag cover (bivvy) get nearly complete protection from breeze and muddy ground and insects. (Pad goes inside bivvy.)

In my view, nearly all bivvy sacks, including mine, are cut too small, and majority are too heavy and expensive.

A slim cut threatens to compress large volume of insulation (as in winter sleeping bag) and you can't easily store stuff in them once enscounced for sleeping. Adding a few inches would add weight, but how much?

Too bad more manufacturers didn't make a very light, jumbo-sized sack.

No experience with waterproof/breathable bivvies. Apparently the various fabrics vary with regard to breathability

I used this one-pound sleeping bag cover with success when I was a ground dweller, in conjunction with a tarp. If I'd needed bug protection at the times I used it, I'd have used this 4.6 oz bug shelter.

coos

Do you know how wet it is up there? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Think - real rain gear <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> - real tent, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />maybe a 2 person tent, not a solo - because you may want to put your pack inside with you and have room atleast to sit up. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

As far as how good is a bivy in Alaska summer conditions <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />- I see no one has yet used the term insane, but I'd like to go on record as offering that as a description.

Others will differ, your mileage may vary - but I have ridden a motorcycle everywhere in Alaska where theres a road (or large mud trak) and camped the whole way for 3 months and I was wet. Always wet - dry out - get wet - DO not take down with you.

The bugs will kill you without protection and though tarps offer more room and head space, few are noseeum tight. Take this threat seriously, seriously. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> take a tent, even a cheap one that has condensation problems, but has a floor and zippered no seem nets.

Oh yes - noseeum netting does NOT pass air easily and you can still die of heat with small areas of it for venting.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Always the optimist Jim. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think you are giving good advice there Jim. I have abandoned my 2 person tent in favor of a silnylon tarp. It has lots of pitching options, weighs very little and takes up little space. However, with the bugs we get in my part of Canada I am seriously considering going back to tenting. Perhaps I will end up with a lighter more expensive tent down the road. As you pointed out, a tent has its advantages. As for bivys. I have never used one or seen the need for one. So far the tarp seems plenty adequate to me, as far as rain protection goes. Perhaps in very heavy rain, a double wall tent might be the best.

Howie

Funny - I hiked the Skyline Trail in Jasper late September of 2007 with several people. I had an eVent Bivy and Silnylon tarp. I set the tarp up as an A-frame as there was a chance of snow. We got a ton overnight, yet the tarp stood and the I slept like a baby in a 10 degree rated sleeping bag and bivy, with the bivy adding approximately 10 degrees despite the wind and I slept with a Cocoon hoody and pant. I had a completely dry bag in the morning.

However, three of the four others had soaked bags due to severe condensation in their tents. Mountain Hardwear single wall, Hilleberg, and a Big Agnes double wall. We still had another night to go. It took me 5 minutes to completely pack up....can't say that for the other three.

At this time of year, there were no flying bugs and it was cool. If I was concerned with bugs, the MLD or GG Bug bivies are excellent and provide a lot of room. And if you are really concerned, a thing called DEET works really, really well.

Jim, ya gettin' old? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

CWF
I hate DEET. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />You can't be covered with the stuff on a long trip. You have to keep the bugs at bay without chemicals. Bicycling to Alaska is gonna be a LONG trip. I've seen people abandon trips because of mosquitoes. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

As far as getting wet - I have used a particular tent in extreme weather, been buried in a snow drift with another person, and everything in the tent was bone dry. I've loaned the same tent to 2 buddies and pitched my other tent next to them. I was completely dry - they were both VERY wet. Go figure? Its not just the equipment. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Jim likes to be warm and dry and well fed when he camps. Its easy to underestimate how wet Alaska can be. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Last summer I tried the repellent and even a bug net over my head at night, but these did not keep the little pests from buzzing in my ears all night. The mosquitos here are twin engine jobs <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The only thing I found that worked was a slight breeze, (which I had no control over) and burning mosquito coils. You know the bugs are bad when you meet fellow hikers who is all decked out with netting from head to toe <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Howie

I often use a bivy alone in drier locations with shorter wet periods. My opinion is that roadside Alaska has conditions that need a roomy tent (for one person) due to rain and bugs. The OP is expecting to live in the tent, not just sleep there while hiking. A different use with a different solution than a climber or a thru-hiker would choose.

It is good to know that there are no bug problems while it snows on a tarp/bivy combo high in the mountains.

I hear ya Jim, I hear ya! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bugs in BC? Never hear of that (just kidding). Head up, my friend - above the treeline. The flying bugs have some trouble up there. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

A full-on tent with floor and netting, or something similar, is wanted for really severe insects.
Mosquito problems are variable and to some extent, swatting comes with the territory.

This doesn't affect question of whether some sort of bivvy sack is desirable accoutrement for back packing, provided the additional weight is well thought out. Nor whether tarp tent is viable for many or perhaps most, camping circumstances. The netting on a bivvy does work as intended, but it's a rather minimal form of protection from insects.

Link below considers bivvys as substitute for tent, and as such, doesn't at all consider my viewpoint which I sought to explain in some detail in earlier post... But given this limitation, link offers full and highly credible discussion of who might benefit from a bivouac sack:

http://www.psychovertical.com/?bivibags

Given unnecessarily limited terms of the analysis, I agree that solo backpackers should not use them. It says:

No; the problem with a bivvy bag is that you can't do anything within one apart from sleep. Get caught out in stormy weather and you can't cook and just try getting into your dry sleeping bag in the rain without getting it wet. Hooped bivvy bags are often bought by these users, but unless they're proper mini tents (like the Outdoor Designs Racer), they're even worse than a bivvy bag, being just as useless but heavier and more costly. For this user the best bet is either a single person tent (warmer, bigger, bugproof and a joy to live in), or if weight and pack size is important then just take the fly sheet (Macpac Microlite fly for example).

In my considered view, single-person tents are hell to live in after a few days, and obviously just a fly provides limited insect protection.

After considering everything, I've decided to just stick with the tent I have now and spend the money I would've spent on a bivy on better clothes and other crap.

I think my tent weighs in at 3lbs10oz, but it has enough room for me and my pack. It has serious condensation problems, and they're not the best for wet weather, but I've been using the same model for about 3 years now and am pretty familiar with them.

I was in Juneau for two weeks a few years ago doing volunteer trail maintenance, and the mosquitoes and black flies were ridiculous. And since I really don't like being bitten by insects, I think I'll take the bug protection of my tent over a bivy too. Thanks for all the replies.

“It has serious condensation problems,..”
You can get rid of some of those serious condensation issues by getting a new/used tent. I love the breathability of the tarp tents. And they’re definitely bug proof. I see a Virga 2 on sale here, or put out a request to buy. Also I see the ‘Mountain Hardwear Sprite 1’ on sale at REI for $99. Another waterproof, semi ventilated tent is the ‘Sierra Designs Light Year’.

If weight is critical (like you stated), then consider a little more money with Six Moon Designs or Tarptent.

Good luck on shelter <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-Barry

As long as I get a chance to dry my tent every once in awhile, I can tolerate the condensation. It's almost new, it's paid for, and it's freestanding. Eventually I wouldn't mind getting a better tent, but I think right now I'd be better off going with what I got and spending that money elsewhere, as I don't have a lot of money to spend in the first place.

“but I think right now I'd be better off going with what I got and spending that money elsewhere, as I don't have a lot of money to spend in the first place.”

Sorry for tempting you <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Excellent self control <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />! America would be better off if all its citizens would think like you.

I hope you have an excellent summer.

-Barry