How do you know when you're an UltraLighter?

I started backpacking when I was a kid, with an external frame pack, department store sleeping bag, and canvas tent. In my early 20's I tackled longer hikes, but still had a 40 pound base weight. Eventually, like most of us here, I discovered light weight backpacking. Over the next few years my base weight went down to 20 pounds, and last year it was at 16. Pretty respectable, I thought!

This year, I've crossed the 10 pound mark. I have never claimed to be an ultralighter, I just like to pack light. Am I out of excuses now, am I officially an ultralighter?

My Spring/Summer gear list is here if anyone has any suggestions to increase my load (kidding) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nice list. No rain gear?

Nice blog!

Generally one is considered a ULer' when there BASE weight is 5lbs or less. That is putting it in simplest forms.

It's great if you are comfortable with the trimmed down gear you use. I feel like you are extra ultra lightt. I have my total weight to 26 + pounds. and I have everything I could possibly need. I could loose a few pounds if I really wanted to but I'm happy with that weight.

Here are a few suggestions, based on comparing my list with yours. Admittedly my gear list is heavier, but as an older lady I want more creature comforts, which is where most of my additional weight comes from. I've tried to cut weight in other areas to offset the "comfy" stuff.

Rain gear? I know it rains both in Victoria BC and on the PCT. The wind shirt will work in a light mist or maybe a gentle drizzle, but definitely not in real rain. Something like Frogg Toggs or Dri-Ducks might do, but you do need something to keep you dry. These two alternatives are breathable enough that you could omit the wind shirt and wear the rain jacket. When it's cold, windy and wet you need rain protection for your legs, too. I remember one backpack (N. Cascades in July) in which it not only was cold, windy and wet but our trail led us through numerous patches of stinging nettles. The "tough it out in shorts" contingent of our group were miserable for days!

Related--what is going to keep your legs warm, especially around camp? I notice you don't have any real base layer listed--they are important to keep you dry (wicking away body moisture from your skin) and warm as part of your insulation system. I suggest you substitute a lightweight base layer bottom for the silk PJ bottoms (silk has very little insulation value, or so I've found) and substitute a lightweight base layer top for the extra T shirt, which you don't need. I never carry redundant clothing items, except socks. The lightweight base layer plus rain pants on your legs will keep you warm even if it snows--which it may! If the unspecified "underwear" is base layers (although it seems a little light for that), then just omit the T shirt and pajamas. If it's briefs, 3.7 oz. seems awfully heavy for one spare pair, which is the most you need.

Sunglasses--don't leave home without them, but get lighter ones. If you're hiking the PCT this year, you'll be spending lots of time on snowfields, especially this year--those snowfields may last into August. Increased UV exposure at altitude can lead to early and rapid onset of cataracts (so my ophthalmologist said after it happened to me). You may also need an ice axe and at least instep crampons for those same steep snowfields.

I never take a fork, just a spoon. Your fork may be light, but it's one more thing you have to keep track of.

Extra set of batteries for headlamp, or (lighter alternative) one of those tiny photon LED lights as backup? Or 2 photon lights and no headlamp? Extra batteries for your camera? Mine eats two AA's a day (I'm working on that problem).

Spare water bottle 1.9 oz.? A 1-liter Platypus is 1.0 oz. and a 2.5 liter Platypus is 1.3 oz. They can be rolled up to almost nothing when not in use.

Food: In the Sierra you are required to have a bear canister. For the rest of the PCT you'll need to hang your food to protect it from various varmints (2 stuff sacks and 50 ft. of cord). I didn't see any provision in your list for either of these items.

Gloves: I use lightweight polypro glove liners (1.0 oz.) and Mountain Laurel Designs rain mitts (0.9 oz). You could substitute extra socks for mittens (although a bit unhandy with no thumb). You could substitute plastic bags for rain mitts for about the same weight and a lot less $.

You don't mention something to keep your sleeping bag dry should you slip and fall while crossing a stream (streams will be very high during snow-melting season, which as I mentioned may last a lot longer than normal this year). The pack cover is fine for gentle rains, but won't help either in an immersion situation or in a lengthy downpour (rain will soak into the side of the pack next to your back). I'd suggest either a pack liner (trash compactor bag = 2.2 oz, less if you cut it shorter) or a dry bag for your sleeping bag and extra clothing (which will probably weigh--and cost--more than the trash compactor bag).

Book--possibly lighter alternatives: Go without it. Get a book that is slow reading, cut in small sections and ship the rest ahead. I have a Bible that I've cut into sections--I take just the Psalms and whatever other section I'm reading at the time (1.5 oz. including sandwich bag for protection). If you read a second language, take small sections of a book in that language. I spent 3 months in Europe with Dumas' "Trois Mousquetaires" (in French) and got only halfway through! Or load recorded books onto a small MP3 player, preferably one that uses light-weight lithium batteries. I haven't tried this last so don't know how it compares with paper, but you can have more than one book.

Finally, you appear to have omitted another "essential," right up there with the rain gear--map and compass (and knowledge of how to use them). Even on the PCT, not all of the trail is obvious. You'll have to leave the PCT to re-supply. If you're out there before the snow melts (likely this year), you will need cross-country navigation tools and skills.

Bearpaw wrote an excellent article last fall which you'll find by searching under "Not So Random Thoughts on Pack Weight." You can find it by searching for the title (change the parameter to less than one year). Using his criteria, you are "ultralight" (under 10 lbs.) but not "super-ultra-light" (under 5 lbs). Adding the missing rain gear, map and compass may get you into the borderline between "ultra-light" and "lightweight." (Bearpaw defines "lightweight" as under 20 but over 10 lbs.)

Mattress

I think the group is saying that your gear maybe light but it is also inadequate for your use. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> You are not a ULer until you demonstrate your ability to actually deal with major problems using the gear you have. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Being unprepared is not considered the best way to achieve UL, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> however we all realise that suffering IS <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> part of UL, as long as you return. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Its a matter of degree - if you die we'll all say we told you so <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> and if you're rescued we'll give you a major ration, but if you surmount all obstacles and write back and either support your choices or admit that you got carried away with the spread sheet and we'll all apreciate your honesty. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

If you add up some of the suggested gear - some insulation and rain gear, your weight will come on up to what the rest of us carry. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So you are a ULer when you can cope using UL gear, not because you own it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments, some very insightful information, and food for thought.

Just to answer a few of the concerns:

-I'm very experienced in wet weather (Coastal hiking on Vancouver Island is basically swimming with a backpack). The best raingear out there only keeps you dry for a short while, and then you're soaked. My current method is to keep warm, but not necessarily dry. As soon as I get to camp, I change into that spare shirt, dry camp socks, pjs (or whatever) and stay under the tarp. If I need to go out, I get changed again. This is also my 'spring/summer' list, my 'fall/winter' is a bit heavier.

-compass and map are in my pocket, I forgot to list pocket contents (it wasn't a 'skin-out' list, but good point, it's all weight)

-bear bag, rope, etc are necessary for some hikes. I would add hike-specific equipment as needed. My next few hikes either have bear storage lockers or aren't in bear territory.

-I know the spreadsheet is overkill, but I review gear on my blog and it's nice to have a reference list. It also is a great visual aid to see where you need improvement, and a checklist to make sure you haven't forgotten anything (..like your compass)

I don't think the spreadsheet is overkill at all. Not only is it a great tool to keep the weight under control (especially when drooling over a potential new gear addition), but I print mine out as a checklist when getting ready for a trip so I don't forget anything!

Most of my prolonged rain experience is at high altitudes, with temps often in the 30's and low 40's (F). In those circumstances, it's more important to stay dry. You mentioned hiking the PCT, and those conditions can apply in many places there. On the other hand, at those temperatures you won't be sweating inside your rain gear, either! If the temp is above 55 (F), I also find that I'm better off just to get wet. Once my tent is up, I change into my base layer and (when I go out) wear the rain gear over it. My nylon hiking shirt and pants dry within an hour, even if it's damp outside. It looks as though we use rather similar techniques, but I won't go out without the rain gear.

You must be an ultralighter if:
1. You have alcohol burn marks on your kitchen counter
2. You’re neighbor says she uses ‘good ole WM bags’ for her trash and you pass out.
3. you can’t decide which silnylon tent to take out today.
4. You bring a scale to department stores.
5. Your sleeping bags are taken better care of than your life.
6. you wonder why people wear heavy coats
…

-Barry

Nearly every day at the railway station when I see those poor tourists and backpackers staggering under their huge loads <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

When I see skinny young 20 year olds hiking as fast as I do, because of what's on their back <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mattress,

For some reason I couldn't access your gear list. (Google wanted my e-mail & a "password. What's that about?)

But I gather you did omit rain gear. In My Humble Opinion omitting rain gear is rather dangerous unless you plan to walk in a Gatewood tarp/poncho thingy.

So I would call your gear list INCOMPLETE. Were I in a search and rescue crew looking for you when an unseasonable bad week of rain hit and I knew you had no rain gear I'd feel it might be more of a "recovery" mission than a "search" mission.

Eric

How the heck does anyone go anywhere in the backcountry with a total pack weight in the teens? I backpack in Montana and need gear to stay warm and dry in the high mountains. I consder my pack light when it weighs in at 30lbs. This suumer I'm trying to get down to 25, but it will be tough. I need to eat, sleep warm, and stay dry. My compliments to those of you who can get down into the teens, but I can't even imagine it in the high country I hike in.

Jack

To be in the low 20s high teens you have to leave out heavy stuff. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />Not so obvious as it sounds. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> If your pack + tent? + Slleeping bag (Pad?) is around or under ten pounds, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> then the other basic stuff shouldn't weigh over another ten. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />One titanium pan, a Ti spoon, a Ti cup, a light stove, a down jacket, rain gear (That weighs under a pound unless its nasty or brambley where you go, then maybe around a pound apiece for rain jacket and pants), a head lamp and whatever junk you need from the "LIST" - fire etc, it won't weigh much. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Now a heavy pack with a heavy tent, Mess-kit, Cabelas self inflate airmattress camp boots maglight and a Rambo knife the weight will go up quickly. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I still think this "stay dry while you hike in the rain" thing seems strange. Is it really possible to do? In my heaver-load days I would take the gore-tex jacket and pants, and get to camp soaked from the inside. During my lightening-up years I tried various ponchos, umbrellas, and other lighter raingear, and it kept me dry for the first few days of a deluge, but then I was back to being soaked.

Now, when it rains, I get wet. I have a warm toque, sweater, windshirt, and don't get cold when I'm moving. When I stop, I have a tarptent and dry clothes. If the weather gets particularly unruly, I stop somewhere sheltered and wait it out under the tarp, in my dry clothes. I have a stove, warm sleeping bag, the skill to light a fire with wet wood, and nutritious food to keep my energy levels up. I really hope any search and rescue attempts wouldn't assume I was dead because I didn't carry waterproof pants.

If I'm going up into the mountains, where rain and freezing temperatures could be an issue, well of course I'll bring extra gear. Most of my hiking is in temperate rain forests, where it's always wet, but never that cold as long as you're out of the ocean wind.

I do appreciate the constructive comments though, and I'm going to modify my list so it can be used for all climates. I'd also like to add that I do try out all gear combinations on shorter 1 and 2 nighters before attempting a week-long hike. Just because I'm a 'gram-weenie', it doesn't mean I'm not prepared. I've gotten out of some sticky jams and have never had to borrow gear off anyone - in fact, I'm often loaning out a strip of duct tape or an extra snack to under prepared hikers.

I'm with you on that one. My favorite "raingear" is a nikwaxed windshirt and/or a fleece, the point being to stay warm not necessarily dry. I will use a poncho if it's really horrid, but if I'm actually moving, trying to keep dry in a baggie of goretex is pointless, I just sweat it wet - so why bother.

When your full pack weighs less than your wife's purse.

Just a guideline, nothing "official" here, I've just seen numbers like these around the tubes. Everything you carry, minus consumables (water, good, fuel), should fit into one of the following categories.

< 10 lbs. == ultralight
< 20 lbs. == lightweight
< 30 lbs. == normal
< 40 lbs. == Boy Scouts
> 40 lbs. == expedition?

I've also seen lists and articles popping up lately of sub 5lb. base weights, being labeled as Super Ultralight. Myself, I typically have a base weight of around 8 or 9 lbs. for most of the year. However, I push up to around 12 lbs. with extra insulation and/or rain gear for situations that call for it -- like in the Olympics.

peace.
ryanc

She says go down baby, and you instantly get out of bed and order a new Western Mountaineering bag. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Mattress, I haven't audited your list. But I wonder if the weight you suggest as base weight is "sustainable" over the long haul where it might do just fine for a weekend. Depends too if you're walking on trail or off or at lower elevations primarily or in alpine. I buy OregonMouse/s comments to some extent in that so much depends on the experience and the age and condition of the backpacker. I might consider your load in my 20's but add a few pounds for pleasure and camp enjoyment in my 40s. Since my base weight is around 16lbs with a floor in my tarptent and a few camp comforts like raingear and sleeping clothing, I suppose I'm not an UltraLight backpacker. I am good for sustained backpacking in the alpine with unpredictable conditions down to -5C.

You're an ultralighter when you spend more time weighing gear, playing with spreadsheets, and discussing gear online than actually hiking....... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think more so than the amount of time out, is the ability to shift schedules and/or bail out of conditions
get bad. For example, I'm going to take a bit more stuff, and a bit of extra food, if I'm on a week long hike, with nowhere to bail out, and the possibility exists I get stuck by weather below a pass for a day or two. OTOH, while the possibility of this is not 0, if let's say, there's a bailout route if I do get stuck and the weather turns to "double delta sierra" - There - there's my plan - if it really goes cruddy, my plan is not
to use extra gear and/or food - it's to bail out. Nothing wrong with this as a strategy, as long as you actually hold to it when the organic materiel hits the spinning object.

I agree, a base weight posted for comparison/review needed to have more criteria attached. Margin of safety, experience/skill level, terrain, escape routes, etc. I've put a lot of review into things in the last few weeks, and tested out the load on shorter journeys. Next week I'll be starting a 10-day trip in dry conditions with a slightly modified version of this list (includes compass and map, of course!).

I think what I really should have pointed out is that I've been hiking for years with this list of equipment, but have slowly been replacing each item with a lighter version. My tarptent (with floor) is just as dry as my previous 4 pound tent. My windjacket is just as water resistant as my previous soft shell, and my light weight sweater is warmer than the previous fleece top I used to bring, for example. It's not like I've thrown out half of the items in my pack just to gain "ultralight" status.

I'm also sure my wet-weather list will be a bit different (although the only thing I normally add is a full change of in-the-tent-only dry clothes. I'm ok hiking wet, I know how to stay warm.) The only time I've come close to dangerously cold & wet was when hitchhiking home from an early trail bail-out, which would have been averted by cooking a warm roadside lunch.

These philosophical questions are always too difficult for me. I content myself in knowing that I am NOT an ultralighter. Remember, not even the simple electron knows where it is and where it's going at the same time.

Because different places and different seasons demand different gear I don't think you can peg UL to a particular base weight. Someone who hikes in Arkansas in July can safely carry a lighter pack than someone who is going x-country in the Canadian Rockies in September.

I'd say you're an UltraLighter when you don't hesitate to invest a lot of time and effort (or a lot of money) to save yourself 2 ounces in base weight. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mattress,

Well, you're right about getting soaked from the inside while packing with raingear on. Long ago, after making that "discovery" I've just put my parka over my pack top W/ the hood over my head & the arms spiral wrapped around my lower shoulder straps. This keeps me drier than no parka.

It's the cold, heavy rains I'm talking about. The kind that literally wash away your core heat. For this I always carry a UL GTX parka, like my present GTX PacLite parka. If I know it's possible there will be cold,high winds, days of rain and/or snow I'll also bring my PacLite rain pants. As you say, it's all weather dependent.

But, as an example, I'm backpacking the Grand Canyon April 15 through 21. I'll bring my PacLite parka for a wind shell as well as possible rain. The rim can still get snow in mid-April.

Eric

As my friend sent me in a Facebook comment. "kid you're ultralight. 'im taking dehydrated water, a fork with 1 prong, and a rain jacket that reverses into a rain fly.'" My obsession with lightening the load has served as the butt of many jokes. And I love it!

Hear, hear!

Although in a earlier post to this exact thread I put forth certain weights as classifications to what is UL, LW, etc, etc, all those things have to be taken with a grain of salt depending on your location and time of year.

For instance, my 9 lbs. base weight got pushed up to as high as 12 lbs. (for when dealing with the Olympics) after I moved from Arkansas to Washington last year.

I consider myself ultralight - I'm able to be comfortable in the woods at night without carrying my mattress and box spring.

I'm only semi-joking - I'm down to 25-27 lbs, possibly 30 if I add some extra liters of water, and I can carry it fine. I may tweak a few things to lighten it a bit but I'm not willing to sacrifice warmth/dry clothes. I need to sleep and I freak a bit without extra food and pills to cover allergy, migraine and other minor conditions that might become major. I carry extra fuel because I'm a klutz and a noob. I still think I'm doing really well, especially when I think of my dad packing a cast iron griddle in his external frame way back when he took the family packing (I think I was 10 year old, maybe 12).

To make a long answer longer - ultralight (to me) is lighter than you can carry and still survive in (at least) semi-comfortable fashion.

I second what OregonMouse said about the sunglasses. Had cataract surgery when I was 37. Not fun at ALL. Now I have some expensive UV blocking glasses on a lanyard that doubles as a soft cover/lens cleaner.

Yeah I agree about the sunglasses. My comment was meant to be going without the case. I've since found a lighter case, so all is well. I get sunstroke at the drop of a hat (literally) so shades and a hat are pretty basic pieces of gear for me.