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1. NO tarps or bivys or hammocks for sleeping. For reasons regarding bears, Philmont REQUIRES a TENT for sleeping. They will, however, require a tarp to be set up for use as a rain fly to protect your packs, which are NOT allowed in the tents.


Yeah.. because 1.1 silnylon is bear armor.. and I can't put a garbage bag over my pack and hang it? (
hello! I almost NEVER have my pack with me at night)

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Can this be an item that gets shared? Probably say 3-4 kids per tent? This way they can share the cost? If this is the case then the tent options have greatly improved. Either way I know Alps Mountaineering gives discounts to scouts. So if they split the cost of one of those tents then that would be a great savings.


Yes, absolutely it can, and by teaching people the only way to camp is in 4 person expedition tents we teach scouts a certain way to backpack that almost guarantees they will not be able to do it in later life. we're talking about getting them gear they can build on if they enjoy the sport, yet by making this decision (which is an easy one to make, because it saves money and is much easier on the leader to have say, 5 big shelters that work instead of worrying about each kid having their feces conglomorated) we're making sure nobody has the most basic of gear to go out with a couple of people.

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4. Fuel- the choices sold at Philmont are limited and do NOT include alcohol fuel. They DO include white gas and Powermax fuel. So if you want to use alcohol, you must figure out a way to ship it to Philmont. Also, the way they provide the food, you will most likely be using LARGE pots- 1 or 2 GALLONS as you will be feeding a crew of 7 to 12 scouts and advisors, maybe divided into 2 cook groups. Pot size may not be appropriate for alcohol stoves

If this is the case Im assuming each kid would not need to purchase and lug around a 2 gallon pot. So how does this work do we need to account for the cost but not the weight? On the stove can split the cost of this as well? I got a whisperlight on ebay for 40$ plus $12 for 33oz fuel bottle at a local store. Again can this cost be split between 7-12 scouts?


Sounds to me like philmont (forgive me I was never in USA boy scouts) is geared toward jamboree style
heavy camping rules and exactly *not* the thing to teach kids how to do reasonable backpacking in any kind of sane way. Powermax fuel and white gas eh? you must be sponsored by coleman <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sure, there's a time and place for the big party adventures, and shared big cookgear and tents make a heck of a lot of sense then. I personally have a full complement of this kind of gear, and I almost never talk about it in this forum - it's my spike camp gear that goes moose hunting with me. But focusing on this as the only way to get out in the wilderness because of "philmont" striks me as a way to ensure that we leave kids with the impression that the only way they can get out later in life unless they are fortunate enough to always be in contact with 3-8 other like minded individuals with similar hiking skills, fitness levels, desire to go, and work schedules. Something I think is usually impossible to find for most people. Sounds to me like philmont is geared to teaching people heavyweight "everything is an expedition" skills that ensure they will never be able to do this after leaving scouts if they have anything like a real life. (As it sounds a lot like my scouting experience up here). So perhaps these are fightin' words, but to me the philmont rules sound like some of the things that express everything I didn't like about my scouting experience in the late 70's early 80's and that none of that has changed very much.

Sorry to sound cranky.. the philmont rules just hit a raw nerve of everything I think is wrong with scouts <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> perhaps I should just resign myself to the fact, and enjoy it because it ensures that the majority of the sheeple won't even walk my trails unless in groups of 6 as a military expedition, means I always have room and don't get overrun by the clueless..


Edited by phat (12/06/08 12:34 PM)