Keith, Montbell makes a 't shirt' style down jacket, take a look in their catalog to see the concept. Like Bob/Phat said, the lower sleeves sometimes just add bulk to your Winter top setup. You could have some light elastic run on the sleeve hems to close them up from escaping heat.....that is if you did'nt burn the shoulder area, but lower down like along the forearm area <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Hope you had a Grand time just the same on your trip <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />