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#96537 - 05/21/08 11:34 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
Quote:
The "Rainbow" to take another popular example, is similarly expensive and only slightly lighter -- and not less constricted in space than a Wenzel, but at best only equally functional, ..or at least that is my contention.


I see your point about the virtues of cheap tents but let's be fair here. The Rainbow and the Hubba are between one and two pounds lighter than the Wenzel. That's a whole lot of weight to many people here.

Just curious.....have you ever actually used a Rainbow or a Hubba? By "use" I mean sleeping in it all night after carrying it and setting it up. Seems like that's the only way to do a truly fair comparison.

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#96538 - 05/21/08 10:21 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Trailrunner]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
Ray Jardine writes of how, as a "wilderness instructor" (for NOLS? Outward Bound?) he and his students in Colorado relied for a number of summer seasons exclusively on plastic sheeting, including above-tree-line camps.

Colin Fletcher, you may recall, was also a big fan of plastic sheeting.

Actually I've done a fair bit of camping over many years in meadows, snow and on glaciers in Washington. On those occassions, I've mainly used a one-person tent made of Goretex knock-off material (the old SD Divine Light). The majority of weather I've happened to experience out there, in summertime at least, has been calm, dry, and fairly mild.

I've never used a Hubba Hubba nor Rainbow but I'm sure they are as good or better than anything on the market of their particular sort. As for direct comparisons I've owned fairly high-end backpacking tents from at least a half-dozen "name" manufacturers, as well as my old Wal-Mart puptent, which weighed three pounds or less with aluminum I-poles and few or no stakes.

I consider Wenzel Starlight the same as my old Wal-Mart tent, as they are/were both essentially no-name "trash'" which may partly explain their unpopularity.

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#96539 - 05/21/08 10:59 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Ben2World Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1754
Loc: So Cal
JohnDavid:

Curious, have you had your Wenzel tent in a prolonged and heavy rain?

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#96540 - 05/22/08 12:52 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: wandering_daisy]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I have participated in other discussions about cheap tents. My take on gear of any kind is that it is worth what you willing to pay for it.

I don't own a lot of camping gear and don't get out all that much, but what I do have is good stuff that I know won't fail me. To me, the security of knowing my gear is reliable is worth the cost. Some of what I own is about 20 years old and to me well worth what I paid for it.

A tent, like any other product, has 3 components-design, material and assembly-any of these 3 can be good, bad or indifferent, but where something is made is not necessarly an indicator of the quality level of any of the 3.

I can understand buying cheap gear if that is all you can afford or if you don't consider the investment worth it because you only use it once in a while. I certainly have no argument with that decision.

But, just because a cheap tent works in many situations, doesn't necessarily mean that buying a better tent for a lot more money is afoolish investment. In a bad storm, the great bargain you got for something will be meaningless if it comes apart at the wrong time.

WD, I have to disagree with you about bike camping. When I was in NZ in the 80's, I was often totally alone along some backcountry road and nowhere near any kind of shelter other than my tent. Cel phones were just an idea back then, not a reality. My tent was a SD Flashlight and it withstood some pretty nasty weather.

As far as Fritz's comment on clones-designs are hard to protect for a lot of reasons, but determining who to sue is not one of them. In many instances, the designs are dissimilar enough to avoid claims of infringement or the design may not be protected at all.


Edited by TomD (05/22/08 01:04 AM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#96541 - 05/22/08 06:36 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
Quote:
What I'm focused on, is that I've spent many months camping (hiking, kayaking and bicycling) over long period in a cheap puptent in a fairly wide array of conditions, and was perfectly satisfied with the protection it offered during summer months.

Your beloved Wenzel solo is completely useless down here in our southern forests during the summer, as it lacks adequate ventilation and serves only as a rickety sauna. Something much more open is required here. My wife uses an old MSR Bughut (same as the REI Bughut II and others still made) with a Kelty Noah tarp for rain protection. That combo's about $120 retail. I'm sure you've had fun in your cheap pup tent. Why not get another and go for a long walk somewhere? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#96542 - 05/22/08 08:30 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Hector]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
Hector: Perhaps you're limited by exceptionally high humidity down there. It's bad enough sometimes in New Jersey, where I currently live. Up in these parts, however, it seems high humidity and very cool temps, when they happen simultaneously, create the heaviest condensation. I could be wrong, because I try hard to ignore it when possible.

QUALITY ISSUES

As far as "low quality," plastic sheeting is as low as you get. Yet two of the best-known instructional writers in backpacking swear by the stuff.

Most textiles are a commodity product, so as far as fabric, there's probably little or no difference between low and mid-priced backpacking tents.

Seam construction quality can probably more easily vary among tents. A proper sealing, necessary in any case, might strengthen things up some, depending on what sealant is used.

Wenzel uses 'double stitched, lap-feld seams"-- which sounds good anyway. Amazing what they do with automation these days.... Their floor seams are "welded" which does sound a little dubious, although apparently Mountain Hardwear and Sierra Designs use a similar process on certain products.

But more to the point, I've never seen anything like seam failure -- on ANY tent. Just doesn't seem like a reasonable concern.

The Starlight's "low quality" is mainly in evidence in its fiberglass poles, steel stakes, and lousy guylines, all of which I'd toss, though I doubt they'd break (cheap poly cord is excessively strong, steel is steel, etc..) These elements have no affect on weather protection.

I notice Wenzel has a 10-year warranty on materials and construction. If their tents were actually falling apart in appreciable numbers, offering this guarantee might be uneconomical and ultimately impossible for Wenzel.

COUPLE OF DESIGN NOTES

In general, a very low-profile tent like the Wenzel Starlight (24 inches tall at rear) would by definition, have superior wind resistance to "brand X" backpacking tent.

Also a couple of rigid poles, in general, offer more strength and stability than the typical lightweight dome, which in a moderately strong breeze, makes one think of Jell-O, and whose poles, no matter the brand or price, are extremely delicate and prone to breakage.

Break a dome pole, and you've got a problem --- no matter where you like to camp or what you paid for your tent; break a puptent pole (less likely) and a replacement is immediately at hand in the woods.

The Starlight design looks superior to my old 3-pound Wal-Mart tent, due mainly to its door beak, which offers better rain protection when door is open, and its front-to-back taper, which offers lower weight. I also like the door and vent zippers. Mine had cloth ties and yes, it was quite effective in prolonged, windy, heavy rain on many occassions.

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#96543 - 05/22/08 08:36 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Heber Offline
member

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 245
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
I've been thinking about this post (and the various replies it has gotten) quite a while, trying to figure out how I feel about this issue. (In the interest of full disclosure I'm strictly a tarp guy, either with a bivy or with a hammock -- I don't even own a tent, except a Walmat tent we've used for car camping once or twice.)

Then yesterday I came across something interesting. Francis Tapon did a yo-yo of the continental divide trail last year and I was listening to a podcast of him talking about what he did. I was curious about his gear. He took a super light cuben fiber tarp from MLD (very pricy if they aren't sponsoring your hike) but he said that he rarely used it. He cowboy camped almost every night. When it got late he looked for a somewhat sheltered spot and laid down his pad and quilt and slept.

Really makes you think about how much (and how nice/expensive) gear is really needed for backpacking.

A few observations are in order

1. He's a very experienced hiker and no amount of gear compensates for lack of experience

2. The continental divide trail is a high mountain trail, often above tree line, and can be quite cold so it's definitely a trail that most people would think calls for a super tent.

3. His standards for comfort are pretty low -- he only used a 1/8th inch Gossamer Gear thinlight pad under him at night.

So I guess my current thinking is this:

We all lack a little of the experience/toughness of a world-class hiker like Francis Tapon so we must compensate with more gear than he uses, for safety and/or comfort. If you have a lot of experience in a certain area or can stand a lot of a certain kind of discomfort then you can get by with very little of a certain kind of gear.

On the question of tents I think that the right amount to spend on a tent depends on how much you are going to rely on it. If it's just a glorified bug/rain shelter then a cheap tent is probably fine. But occasionally you will have to pay the consequences -- which may not be too bad if you have the experience/toughness.

As an example, one day on his yo-yo Francis Tapon was in high in the Colorado mountains early in the spring. It was windy and cold and he woke up in the middle of the night shivering. He was paying the price for his bare-bones set up. He knew what to do though. He got up and hiked all through the night. That kept him warm and he was able to make up the sleep later.

If you are that tough and experienced then even a $20 tent is overkill.

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#96544 - 05/22/08 10:26 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
> Up in these parts, however, it seems high humidity and very cool temps, when they
> happen simultaneously, create the heaviest condensation.

They don't have saunas up in those parts?

> As far as "low quality," plastic sheeting is as low as you get. Yet two of the best
> known instructional writers in backpacking swear by the stuff.

False opportunistic appeal to authority -- do you also carry 50 lb. loads in your external frame pack like Colin did? What do you think either would have said about your cheap pup tent? Why cite authorities who think you're full of it, or with whom you do not agree?

See ya -- I'm out of this troll-bait thread.

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#96545 - 05/22/08 11:31 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Johndavid:

It's hard to fathom your responses here. In fact I would dare say that your comments are foolish and you come across as someone who doesn't really have the experience you are trying to convince us of. I also get the sense that some of your comments border on irresponsibility.

Whenever we go into the backcountry we assume some risks. There are some who take this to the extreme and, hopefully, understand that the more chances they take, the greater the possibility of them not returning home. Your proposal of taking a $20 Wenzel to any serious backcountry destination is at best foolish and at worst dangerous. Sure you might be lucky to experience perfect weather with no wind or rain, but that can never be assumed (again, were talking a serious backcountry location). The fact that you believe that "most" people's experience mirrors your own tells me you really haven't gone into the depths of the backcountry (I've read every entry here and don't agree that you have all that much experience, sorry). All it takes is one very wet miserable night at the verge of hypothermia to help you realize the need for decent shelter.

There are so many excellent options in tents today. You buy quality and take care if it, it will last you a lifetime, keep you protected from the elements, be easy to set up, be light, well-designed, and give you a relative sense of comfort. This is what's known as value. The manufacturers go to incredible lengths to bring these products to market. You might think they are making an exorbitant profit, but those of us in the outdoor industry know that is simply not true and, in fact, laughable. Most of these guys have experienced a very bad day backpacking or camping and are passionate enough to start their own company in making sure that doesn't happen again. The founder and owner of Cascade Designs is still hard at work and is employed by the company even though he is almost 80 years old. Retirement isn't even in the picture.

One of the interesting details in regards to MSR's dedication to quality is the effort they made to find the best manufacturer in the world for their tents. The challenge was given to a very select group of factories all around the world. This included some from the US, Portugal, Taiwan, China, South Africa, etc. They had 6 months to complete the model of tent they were required to finish. The best tent would win the contract. Once all of them were submitted, they were gone over with a fine tooth comb. Only the best factory was selected to make MSR tents. The factory that won happened to be in China. It had nothing to do with economics as far as Cascade Designs was concerned, but everything to do with quality.

You are free to buy whatever product you want. We all have our reasons and our motivations. Your arguments in this thread are elementary and come across as foolish by someone who lacks experience in recommending a tent to any one. You might want to check out the BACKCOUNTRY BEGINNERS area on this forum.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

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#96546 - 05/22/08 12:06 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: jasonlivy]
Ben2World Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1754
Loc: So Cal
Jason:

Unless JohnDavid convinces me otherwise, I will have to agree with you.

I asked him whether he has ever been inside his Wenzel tent in a hard and continuous rain (to me that would mean 8 or so hours of downpour). He posted a very, very long post after, but did not answer my question at all.

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#96547 - 05/22/08 01:59 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
magnumopus Offline
member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 16
Loc: New Mexico
Quote:

As far as "low quality," plastic sheeting is as low as you get. Yet two of the best-known instructional writers in backpacking swear by the stuff.

actually visqueen is extremely high quality, it's tough, seamless, doesn't lose structural soundness if punctured and is completely water proof.
and it can be easily cut to fit you preferred style of tarp pitching.

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#96548 - 05/22/08 02:47 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Johndavid

You are getting a lot of payoff for this troll huh. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Its not worth telling you [deleted] <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> YMMV - no offense intended.
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#96549 - 05/22/08 04:23 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Jimshaw]
kat Offline
member

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 63
I'm going to agree with JohnDavid to some extent. Just for the record, I have owned: Hilleberg Nallo 2, Stephenson 2R, Gossamer Gear Squall Classic; currently have Stephenson 2C and Moonbow custom tent.

But for sunny camping, I have returned to my old Texsport Knollwood Bivy Tent on many occasions. $25, 2 person tent 34.3oz, stock poles 10oz. Nice to pull this out and go when inbetween other tents. It is not super heavy, I like the space/setup and lack of condensation. No I have not had this out in a pouring 8 hour rain and do not intend to; there is this thing called a weather forecast I always check before I go....

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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#96550 - 05/22/08 04:38 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: kat]
Ben2World Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1754
Loc: So Cal
Kat:

A "fair weather" tent has its place. That's completely legitimate.

But that wasn't what OP was saying at all. He was essentially saying that his tent was functionally the same as those much more expensive tents that he listed out.

I hope he realizes that we are not brand or image whores. The many refutations centered on two issues:

(1) a sunny weather tent cannot be compared to a truly weather proof tent.

(2) OP has made numerous statements that betray his lack of experience -- both with the Wenzel itself -- and backpacking in general.

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#96551 - 05/22/08 04:55 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Ben2World]
kat Offline
member

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 63
Thanks for the summation, Ben2World. I read the OP's first post in which it states functional equivalence "assuming summer use" but then there are further statements about rain capability later on so you are correct.

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#96552 - 05/22/08 05:08 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: kat]
Ben2World Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1754
Loc: So Cal
Oh, Kat, if you read the very first reply... the el cheapo Texsport tent I talked about was actually a Knollwood!!! DON'T EVER bring it out if there is any chance -- however remote -- of rain! To Texsport's credit, if you read the packaging/instructions -- it does state that the tent is "rain resistant" -- so at least it isn't lying or making any claims to rainproofness. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#96553 - 05/22/08 06:36 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 997
Loc: Australia
As a 16-17 year old, I slept a few times at around 8000' on the Italian alps with no tent or tarp. At that stage I had never seen an alpine tent and certainly could not afford one. My sleeping bag was borrowed, heavy( made from animal hair...),and painfully inadequate. If the weather had turned nasty one of those nights, as it does at that altitude, I could have died. I had no torch and, at lest on an a couple of occasions, a way of getting off the mountain till daylight. Should I start a " all tent and tarp users are wimps!" post ?
To even mention Francis Tapon as an example is highly misleading and dangerous. He is a professional athlete, not an amateur backpacker.
Can I remind you that Reinhold Messner went up Mt Everest, by himself, without oxygen and during the monsoon season. Should I start an "all Everest climbers are wimps" thread in one of the mountaineering forums ?
As it has been pointed out, in fair weather most tents provably are too much, but If you have not heard people say "I'll never go camping again" after they have spent a bad night inside a cheap tent, you have not been camping.
Keep in mind that the original poster was stating that most tents are overpriced, not that in some cases a cheap tent will do. Also keep in mind that most people here are not just car campers, often there is no quick escape .
Franco

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#96554 - 05/22/08 07:07 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Franco]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2742
Loc: California
I am not sure the tents are over-priced. I have tried to make one myself. The fellow who makes the tent has overhead, investments and pays workers. I am not sure I like the idea that a cheap tent I buy is made by slave labor in China. The last time I went to a discount fabric store I paid 4.99 per yard for low-tech rip stop nylon. The last time I tried to design and sew a tent it took me over a week and it turned out horrible! Yeh, they probably spend $50 making the $200 tent with high volume manufacturing. But the point is, if I were to try to make one myself, and valued my labor at a minimum of $10 per hour, I would still have a $200 tent- probably more. And probably thousands of people have used the manufactured tent and it has refined its design over the years and is a better tent for that.

What else can I buy for $200? One week's groceries for a family. Two college textbooks. One leather purse. One evening dress. One pair of designer shoes. A bookcase. 50 gallons of gas. 70 gallons of milk. Half a year garbage pick-up. 2 hours of help from a computer expert when I kill my computer. And although I do not get paid all this, under 2 hours of work that I do for clients. It is all a matter of perspective.

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#96555 - 05/23/08 08:02 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Franco]
Heber Offline
member

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 245
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
Easy there dude. I'm not trying to mislead anyone.

My point is simply that whether you need to spend a lot on a certain piece of gear depends on how much you will rely on that piece of gear. If you have the ability to get along without it then there's no need to spend the money to get the very best.

Now Francis Tapon is world class, as I said, so he doesn't need much of anything. I'm not even close to that. I skimp on some things and know what that might cost me. But for things that I consider critical I get the best that money can buy.

For myself I don't spend a lot on shelter (no $300 tent for me) and I'm prepared to deal with the possible consequences. In a bad storm I may be under-protected and end up not sleeping. I can deal with staying awake on a cold-stormy night while I wait out the storm. What I can't deal with is getting chilled while I'm waiting and risking hypothermia. So I bring very high quality clothing with lots of extra layers above and beyond what I'm expecting to use so I know that in the worst case I can still maintain my body heat. I spend way more on clothing than on shelter.

Now other people may make the opposite decision: bomb-proof tent and only adequate clothing. I've got nothing to say against that decision. Every hiker needs to choose where to go high quality and where to skimp.

To say that EVERYONE needs an expensive tent to backpack is just not right.

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#96556 - 05/23/08 08:54 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Heber]
kbennett Offline
member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 820
Loc: north carolina
Seeing as one of my favorite writers is being asked to carry water for this troll, let me quote a couple of passages from the Complete Walker (this is from the 3rd edition):

1. On the cost of equipment: "'Ignore the cost' is easier said than done, of course (though I should like to add, at the risk of sounding smug, that even when I used to live on what many people regarded as the smell of an oily rag, I would not think of walking away from my ancient car with any equipment in my pack that fell short of the best available)."

2. On what kind of tent to use: "Under most conditions the best roof for your bedroom is the sky. This common-sensible arrangement saves weight, time, energy, and money. It also keeps you in intimate contact with the world you are presumably walking through in order to come into intimate contact with."

(more) "It amazes me, though, that most practicing backpackers also seem to regard a tent as obligatory, even in fair and stable weather."

Hmmm, "best available" equipment, and, er, no real need for a tent for three-season backpacking.
_________________________
--Ken B

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#96557 - 05/23/08 09:17 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: kbennett]
Heber Offline
member

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 245
Loc: St. Louis, Missouri
Excellent quotes! Thanks for those.

In fact it makes me rethink what I said earlier. Perhaps the answer isn't "a cheap tent (or whatever piece of gear we are talking about) is okay if you won't be relying on it for survival" as I was suggesting. The more enlightened answer might be "if you don't really need it then why bother carrying either a cheap or expensive one? Carry just what you need but make it the best."

Hmm, I'll have to think about that some more.

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#96558 - 05/23/08 09:45 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Heber]
kbennett Offline
member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 820
Loc: north carolina
Exactly.

When you *really* need a tent -- winter conditions, appreciable snowfall -- a $30 Wally-mart special isn't going to cut it.

If you assume (like the OP did) pleasant summer conditions, then you don't need a tent at all. A simple tarp or plastic sheet will do fine if it rains (and be lighter, possibly cheaper, and better than the cheap tent in any case.)
_________________________
--Ken B

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#96559 - 05/23/08 10:01 PM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: kbennett]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Threads like this one lead to broad generalities about "3 season" v. winter, etc.

I saw a documentary called "Christmas in Yellowstone" on PBS. Part of it was about a photographer who was skiing around and taking pictures. He used a tarp and did so during a storm. However, I could see that he was sleeping in a Western Mountaineering Bag-I saw the label in a close-up. My guess is it may have been a Puma or Bison from the size of the bag-these are $7-800 bags.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/yellowstone/survival.html

So, the point is, sure you can get away with a tarp in winter, as long as you have the best bag money can buy.

Remember, people have paddled, rowed and sailed tiny boats across the oceans, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#96560 - 05/24/08 02:50 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: johndavid]
EWH Offline
member

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 63
Loc: California
I guess I'd have to question what is meant by summer backpacking. I've been in snow storms in the Sierras in June, July and August. I recall a couple years ago when an unexpectable storm caught some backpackers by surprise in September? in the Kings Canyon area. I think they ended up rescuing a few by helicopter.

I think one of the most exciting parts about backpacking is we're heading out into the unknown. Because, well, it is unknown. And you truely never know what you are going to get. Sure I look at the weather report before I go but those reports are generally not very good for mountain areas. In any case, weather reports, at best, are good for about 3 days and typically my trips are much longer than that.

I also actually like challenging my gear. When Silnylon first came on the scene I remember thinking there's no way this stuff would hold up to the rigors of backpacking. Now I've become quite found of it. It's an incredible feeling knowing my 32 oz SMD Lunar Solo can handle prolong rain and considerable winds. I doubt that Wenzel would do well in those conditions. One of my most memorable experiences was sitting out on an exposed ridgeline while a set of three thunderstorms passed overhead throughout the night. I don't think I slept a wink and it was so cool!

Another requirement I have for a shelter is being able to sit up in it. I used a Eureka Gossamer for one season and didn't like it. The headroom was too tight and it was a pain getting in and out of. I think it was about 24" tall in the front. That Wenzel tent is a taller at 36" but that isn't going to cut it for me. Shelter's like the Rainbow, GG's The One, Henry's new Sublite, as well as my Lunar Solo are all shelters you can sit up in and move around in. And they all weigh consierably less.

So am I willing to pay a couple hunder dollars more for a lighter, more storm worthy, and more functional shelter? Absolutely!

- Erik

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#96561 - 05/24/08 06:21 AM Re: New Post: Cheap Tents [Re: Ben2World]
kat Offline
member

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 63
Hey Ben2world I'm just curious - did you seam seal the Knollwood? I did every single seam (including above the zipper) twice. But I've only experienced a very light brief sprinkle in it - I plan my outings around good weather <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do know someone who's actually had the thing out in snow, tho - couldn't find the pic on nwhikers.net.

Here's one pic of the Knollwood from last year. I've been using it on and off for about 5 years now I guess, as I said when I'm inbetween other tents. I like trying a lot of different tents lol.



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