Here is a link to the page i made for the new Sublites. I hope everyone will enjoy it. I have had a great time working with Henry, fielding everyone's ideas and suggestions and playing amatuer tent designer. Enjoy!

http://www.freewebs.com/bigfoot2pictures/index.htm

BIGFOOT

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm a little suspicious now. Your link also shows I have a couple messages from a buddy in Graeagle, a small community near me. What is up?

As for the new shelter looks like it would work like the rest, does it have netting in the door opening for ventilation on warmer nights? Henry should have taken Paige along to take photos though. If condensation happens at the top, seems to me the majority of the netting is in the wrong place, it should be at the top, as the netting at the bottom makes the shelter cooler. Too bad it can't be designed with a little bit of a ridge cap, with a band of netting just under that, like my garage roof was designed to allow vapor to escape. Comprende?

Lookin' for the spinnaker version to really get the weight down . . .

It doesn't seem to have any netting at the door, so it's completely open or closed completely, no enjoying the stars from your warm sleeping bag or quilt. And now for a spinn version <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Of course it has bug netting for the door - see the silnylon version. Henry's models all have bug netting.

The comments about it needing to be lighter always makes me laugh......

I'm working on a way to vacume out all excess air inside the stuff sack in order to further lighten the total pack weight. Any ideas?

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think if you vacuum up all the b*****it that will work. The other option is to fess up, this was a hoax, right?

Why not displace the air with helium. This would had a negative effect on the weight. Even better would be hydrogen which could then be used as fuel... multipurpose uses and all. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If only i could harness the natural gases given off by all chili eating back packers ... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Wildthing:

I do not work for Henry Shires nor have i received any money for posting these pictures or working with him designing these tents. These are real tents and are no "hoax". I did all this for and with the members of TLB forums.
BF

At a guess a spinnaker version would cost twice as much and be 2 to 3 oz lighter. Is it worth it ?
Franco

Wildthing
The comment about vacuuming up air to make it lighter was a joke ( do I need to explain it ?) However I don't get the hoax bit from you (?)
Franco

Ummmmm
thats not a very good picture.
And the rear tie outs appear too thin for mtn use.
Did I miss the important stuff? like how much does it weigh and does it have a floor and how is it vented? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You missed some, Jim. 17.5 ounces tyvek, 18.5 ounces silnylon. Vents at roof and rear. Check out the page again, man. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Spinn versions seems to be between 40 to 50 % more expensive. So depends what the sil version's price is and it might be worth it. Also it's not anly about weight. Spinn stays taut.

On another note, the vestibule seems very small, not very usable as a vestibule.

What do you mean by "small vestibule " ?
It's the same size as the one in my BD Lighthouse.
Franco

So...how long will the tyvek tent last? Will debris cling to it?

I like the silnylon version. I would like to see how well it stands up to strong winds.

The sublite tent looks great. If I were to use a tent this would be the one. I currently use a hammock that I made myself. Will a camo version of the sil-nylon be offered?

I am hoping to get one to try on my trip to the Oregon Coast with Jimshaw/Dull Knife, May 9. Super-strong winds on the coast have actually taken more of my stuff sacks away than i can count. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

BF

I would like color choices, also, but keep in mind that may make production more complicated on Henry's part.

BF

I'm interested in hearing more about the "clothing grade" tyvek. Is the stuff hazmat suits are made of?

Honestly, i do not know. I'll ask Henry. Great question! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Matt
35 years ago I had a 8x10 tyvek ground cloth with a "hood" sewed into a hole in the middle to wear as a poncho. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />On rainy days I put a stick up in the poncho to make a tent, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and staked down the corners. total weight 6 oz, total cost $1.99. In nice weather I slept on top of it.

Thats what tarping means to me. Add a 6oz mosquito net tent and yer at 12 ounces. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

So, Dull Knife, did your tyvek hold up ok?

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Nice little tent. Your images could be lower resolution tho - they'd load faster instead of making me think they're just broken. Good thing I'm patient. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Because its a free site and is getting so much traffic, please be patient. I actually transfered Henry's pics to jpeg's in anticipation of just this happening...i'm glad i did, otherwise we'd never see 'em <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

It is really hard to find camo silnylon that is less than 1.9 oz. If Henry has a good source for silnylon, he is probably getting it less than I would be able to. Unless his source is able to supply the camo fabric, he would have to charge more for the tent, and it will probably be heavier. Just a guess. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

“I actually transfered Henry's pics to jpeg's in anticipation of just this happening”

As of this posting time, they’re still .bmp on the tyvek page. Thus each picture is 2.5MB x 12 pictures = a little wait plus lost pictures.

Can you try making them as jpegs again?

Thanx,
-Barry

Yeah, that kinda sux, I noticed a bunch were still bmp's and really slow to load - Must be Jim that's the "High Tech" in the High Tech/Old School Bigfoot/Dull Knife pair <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I hauled 'em in here and jpeg'ed the bmp's - so have a look here:

http://bofh.cns.ualberta.ca/beck/pictures/sublight/

Dhoooooo! I'll try. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Phat! I don't care what they say, you Canadians are OK in my book! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
BF

I just posted this on another forum. Apologies for the cross-post but it seemed easier than re-writing it.

-H

----------------------------
Just got home from the PCT kickoff and, ok, everybody calm down...

Here's the straight story. The Sublite will be released in two versions. The Tyvek version--soft structure, 1.25 oz/yard-- is/will be pretty much as shown. It's minimal, that's the idea. You have plenty of other heavier and more expensive shelter choices if you want vestibules and mesh doors and built-in hot tubs. You don't need extra mesh in this model because the whole structure breathes so well. There's plenty of perimeter mesh and a high vent and the fabric is quite breathable. It reflects a lot of heat and light and stays cool and dry in hot sun. At 17.5 oz total including 4 stakes, you get a lot of space for sleeping plus room for gear--floor is 20 square feet and measures 86" long and 26"/42"/24" wide so there's room for gear at side or head. Love it leave it, that's what it is and will be out in June. Price will be $179.

The silnylon version is not finished yet. The final model will have more venting than the current prototype. I made up an initial prototype in a couple of nights last week as a proof of concept with patterns developed for the tyvek version. The final silnylon version will likely be an ounce heavier than the one shown--final weight of under 20 ounces including 4 stakes--and tweaked not only for more venting but also for drip-free entry/exit. It will not have a separate vestibule (see above about other shelter choices) but it will have interior room for gear and will keep you dry and bug free and resist decent storms. As above, pick a different shelter if you want more.

The Sublite requires 135cm trekking poles. We will likely offer substitute poles and the shelter will work fine without any poles if suspended from an overhead branch.

Finally, re: soft structure Tyvek, a few thoughts. Heat and light reflection is superb, the fabric is non-stretch, and it breathes really well. It is not as tear resistant as silnylon but properly reinforced it holds up and the material is, I believe, appropriate for low profile shelters like the Sublite. I'm not ready to recommend the tyvek version for thruhikes but shorter trips should be fine. Condensation potential is much lower than with a comparable silnylon/waterproof fabric. With regard to water resistance, I have been favourably impressed with the fabric for use within certain parameters. In my testing, the material is most certainly water resistant for light to moderate rains to even shorter duration heavier rains. It will absorb some water in the rain and it will get damp (much as silnylon gets damp from condensation during rain) but it has not dripped on me in my testing during light to moderate rain conditions. It does take longer to dry than silnylon not it's not a good choice for continously wet places. I'm comfortable recommending the shelter for areas with matching weather such as the west coast in summer, desert southwest most anytime (except possibly monsoon season) or anywhere else where rain is moderate and of shorter duration. In combination with a water resistant shelled sleeping bag, it will do the job perhaps beyond that but I just don't have enough data yet to say for sure. Lastly, soft structure tyvek is washable, very easily patched with scrap and glue, and seam-sealing is really easy--wipe on with your finger using non-toxic glue that will ship with the shelter.

I'll post official photos on tarptent.com within a week of the tyvek version. The silnylon version is not final and I don't have a release date for it yet but I will try to finalize it over the next couple of weeks.

-H

Hi, Henry, those Sublites look really interesting!

At the other end of the spectrum, I'm wondering about progress on the 3-4 person tent that I've heard you are working on? The way my grandchild #3 (currently 3 1/2) is hiking, he'll probably be going out with us next year. We did 3 1/2 miles yesterday and he started asking to be carried only for the last quarter mile! Three grandkids (who will be 9, 7 and 4 by then) plus my 80-lb. dog plus myself (stout granny) are going to be a wee bit crowded in the Rainshadow 2! So I'm hoping that by a year from now you have the family tent on the market. It might be a bit weighty, but it would be less so than the Rainshadow plus the Squall!

Great job! Now if you could shave 16.7oz off the packaged weight, it might make a somewhat not awfully heavy tarp.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, though, congrats to you and Henry.

lars, you need to add the weight of the waterproof bivy and a bug enclosure before comparing weights with Henry's new tent. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Way cool <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It's giving me some ideas...... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Nice tent...but I like the more protected entrance of my Contrail and its larger interior space. It's spoiled me.

That said the Sublite IS a minimalist's best bet for a full-on tent. And the snaller width lengthwise vents are nicer for preventing a lot of dust from entering. (I live and backpack in the Southwest.)

Can't wait for the LIGHTSPEED!

Eric

Lightspeed......hmmmm. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So, what would everyone want in a 4 season Tarptent? Let me know, guys.

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

P>S> Here we go...again! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

That 25g tarp is really interesting. Combined with a MLD event bivy, total weight would be about 12.5oz. Add some bug netting to hang down from the edge of the tarp, probably around 13oz. Not bad, IMO. Very easy setup too.

There are plans to make that tarp at
http://www.backpacking-lite.co.uk/diy/make-an-ultralight-solo-micro-tarp.html

That tarp is awesome. I wonder if MLD might make a custom order for me? These aren't available in the US are they?

Bigfoot-for 4 season, something that is 1-2 person, self supporting, big vestibule (a must), a couple of inner pockets (could be add-ons).

Current popular lightweight 4 season tent choices seem to be the Hilleberg Akto/Terra Nova designs, Hilleberg tunnel tents or the ID/Bibler/BD designs. Obviously there are others, but they tend to be heavier.

One problem with using trekking poles for support in winter, like with Henry's tents would be that if you go day snowshoeing or skiing, you have to take the tent down, so dedicated poles would be better IMHO.

I wouldn't expect a tent from Henry to compete with bomber expedition tents, but something for mild winter conditions would be interesting.

Tom:
Your ideas mirror mine <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'll pass it on.I'd still like to see an old school "snow door"...no moving parts to break. Very simple bungie-type closure.

BF

BigFoot-do you mean the old circular snow doors like I have seen on some of the old A frame tents? I think they may have been early North Face tents, but I only remember them from pictures I saw in catalogs years ago.

Those are the ones, Tom <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I am hoping to talk Henry into putting one on my 4 season Tarptent instead of an actual door with zippers or velcro. The old "Dandelion" that the Sublite was modeled after had one and it is way cool.
http://www.freewebs.com/bigfootpictures/unknownorthfacetent.htm

The only problem would be wiggling my big butt through the portal <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

BF

Yep, that's what I was thinking of too, the one in your picture. I have a big vestibule on my tent-an EMS Pompero, which I got on eBay. That one has two zips on the vestibule.

It stakes down at one point in the center, then zips open in sort of half circles, which isn't the best setup. You can see it in the pics on my trip reports for Yosemite.

I have been looking for a website with pics of older tents, but haven't found a really comprehensive one.

This one is interesting though-
classic gear stories

Tom,
Your EMS looks very much like TNF VE-24 series of mountaineering tents. I have an old 1983 TNF VE-23 (3 1/2 season version of the #24). Great tents. My VE-23 does very well in snow, even though it is not rated a full on winter tent. I think 4 season tents are long overdue for a weight loss plan. One idea i am toying with is a 3 hoop tunnel style-- like an old TNF Westwind, but "Tarptentized", so to speak. The snow door would have a bungie cord closure...very simple and nothing to break down or freeze. I have some ...unique...ideas about a new type of floor, also. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> How did your EMS fare?

BF

Rivendell bombshelter with snow flaps, tunnel door and you can see the zippered cook hole inside the door.



Zippered cook hole up close.



Optional frost liner.



With fly.



From the back, pitch this side into the wind.



Tunnel door closed.

Great pictures. I can just smell the mildew.

BF, my tent is also somewhat like the MH Trango Assault . I have seen Jim's TNF Mountain Tent and they are about the same size.

The fly doesn't seem to tie down as tight as it should, but the pole design (5) should hold up pretty well in a bad storm. I haven't had it out in really bad weather, so not sure. I think it if was tied down properly and totally closed up, it would be pretty stable.

My tent is fairly heavy, because it is a convertible, so there is the weight of the mesh panels and zippers. It is a clip design too, so there is a lot of hardware on it.

It also has a small door and vestibule in the back, plus three mesh interior pockets.

Now, would'nt you love that tent with a bungie corded snow door?

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just to let everyone know, the Sublite silnylon will be a little different than the original pictures. I can not say what, but it will be worth waiting for. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BF

Alan
WOW dude, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Now thats a tent, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />I like it, especially the solid A frame ends and rigid top <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - I bet it doesn't flap at all - so you can cook in it - and wow double wow - a cook hole <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Put it in a sled and who cares what it weighs? Its a winter tent, things are different in the winter.
Nice tent <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> - wanna sell it?

Oh Iso I'm going BPing with Bigfoot in 5 days at the coast and I can examine the original TNF Dandelion and maybe take it to the beach on our trip. I threatened to make Sherpa - BF's dog, drag it to camp. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Oldscout - no mildew at all.

Jim, Rivendell made all of about 350 bombshelters and I know of about 10 in existence. I got quite lucky scoring this one. You'll have to pry this one out of my cold, dead hands. You are right, it doesn't flap at all, the tent is rock solid in the wind.

That shelter looks sweet! So, how much does bombshelter weigh? I'm sure it heavy but just curious. Also, pardon my four season tent ignorance, but what benefits does one have using a drawstring tunneled door?

There would be no zipper to freeze, crack or break by using a drawstring tunnel entrance. Also, if you are getting lots of snow, it's easier to dig your way out of a tunnel door instead of trying to free zippers, etc. It will (in theory) save weight by not having a zipper door. And besides...no other tent will look like it and it's just so cool looking! :cool

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ah ha... very interesting

If you do a Yahoo search for "snow tunnel" there are a few pics on different websites.

Here is a pic of a snow tunnel on an Oval Intention that Penny worked on.
Oval Intention snow tunnel

Just an FYI---
Henry says that he will be "reworking" the silnylon Sublite and that the final product will be.....different....than the prototype in the pictures <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BF

These pages are from Rivendell's last catalog. The current owners of Rivendell are considering reintroducing the tent, I'm certain a modern version would weigh less as today's fabric choices didn't exist at the time. After Rivendell was bought by the Yak Works they breifly made a gore tex version of the tent, but I don't have any specs on that version. I know of one gore tex version still around, but's it a long way from home and the owner doesn't wish to sell. The bombshelter is quite small, it was designed to pitch in a very small spot and be very storm proof. You really have to like your tent mate, but for one person it's not bad.











Edit, the print turned out hard to read.
Width - 46"
Length - 84" plus the back triangle (end pitched into the wind) is 13" long
Height - 35"
28.9 square feet
Weight - 5 pounds, 12 ounces

Bigfoot,

That drawstring "snow door" was in the WW II U.S. Army 10th Mountain Division nylon (yes!) mountain tents that were reversable - white on one side and O.D. green on the other. Why do I know this? B/C as a Boy Scout in the '50s in Toledo Ohio, our troop had five of thse beauties, complete W/ 4 sectioned wooden, metal tipped & jointed poles for the two A-frame sleeves at each end.

Those were "high tech", high speed tents in those days. Other Scouts drooled over them and the speed with which we could get them up. Plus, on windy days we were often the only ones with no tent problems AND they had - wonder of wonders - SEWN IN FLOORS!

Eric

I'm not hearing any thoughts on what would make a good 4 season Tarptent, people.....

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

a lodge with heat. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BF
quote
"I'm not hearing any thoughts on what would make a good 4 season Tarptent, people.....

BF "

Perhaps its because nobody else thinks a 4 season tarp tent is a good idea... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm interested in the other request that was mentioned -- a bigger Tarptent. My suggestion . . .

QUAD RAINBOW

There aren't any big tents that aren't heavy . . .

Golite Utopia 1

“QUAD RAINBOW

There aren't any big tents that aren't heavy . . .”

That would catch my eye too.

4 season tarptent ideas.....Hilleberg Akto <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I concur with the other posters, the rainbow is an excellent multi-person design. Doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to convert to 4 person, but I think most of us would rather have two, 2-person tarps? For redundant safety, or if the group splits up, it's nice if the entire shelter isn't carried by one person. It's also easier to find two small flat spots than one big one.

I am not sure about a zipper freezing but I do know that if any type of guy line or bungee type of rope or string gets cold enough it too will freeze and be relatively hard to deal with. I agree with you though that there should be a little savings in weight not having to deal with a zipper at all.. And yes you are right it does look cool as hell. A modern day version of the thing would be a much sought after tent I can guarantee you that. I am surprised that some one hasn't at least made the effort to build one of these things just to see how it would turn out. It would be the "BOMB" today with today's high-tec fabrics and all. For some one with little sewing skills, they should be able to pull some thing like that out of their hat shouldn't they ????? Hope this Helps Happy Trekking...sabre11004....

The first step that you take will be on of those that get you there !!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have seen several sites that sell Camo Silnylon and if I had the time I think that I could probably dig up what those sites were. If any body is interested, let me know and I will see what I can do...Hope that Helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004....

The first step that you take will be one of those that will get you there !!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

In my experience Spinnaker would be very noisy in a significant wind. Have you ever been on a sail boat. Their sails make more noise than I think that I would tolerate in the back woods. Hope that helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be of those that get you there !!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

About the vestibule....Henry plainly says that if you want all that fancy stuff like a vestibule you might want to look for other options...Hope that helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Henry is coming out with a bigger model soon. I believe it's going to be a four person.

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Jim,
If i wanted YOUR opinion, i'd threaten it out of ya' with a sharp knife! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if there would be much of a demand for a four season Tarptent--especially given the popularity of single-poled tipi tents ala the MegaLight.

But then I thought some more, and decided that a less-expensive alternative to a Warmlite would be worthwhile. Keep the tunnel shape, but have the vestibules be floorless, and make it with doors on each end. Obviously, the double-walled approach used by Warmlite would be required to keep condensation down. The doors should have both mosquito netting and breathable ripstop paneling--the second is needed to keep spindrift out of the interior.

There is one problem with the double-walled approach: how to vent the roof? Perhaps the solution could be similar to what TNF uses in its expedition tents--have zippered panels in the interior ceiling backed by mesh that match with vents with stiffened eyebrows on the outer layer.

Designing a winter tent out of non-breathable materials is a tough challenge--you have to be able to close the thing up tight from wind and spindrift, yet still allow air circulation so that you don't die of asphyxiation.

I'm also not convinced that sil-nyl is suitable for tent floors when camping on snow--I've seen water come through the floor of even the 1500mm coating of a MH Trango 2. It's heavy, but there's a reason why Bibler uses the floor material it does on its top of the line tents.

I don't understand why Henry is opposed to a vestibule-granted that is a second hand statement, but if true, I don't understand the logic.

I tried winter camping in a SD Flashlight and with no vestibule in a storm, not a pleasant experience. The Hilleberg tunnel tents have huge vestibules and not that much added weight.

Now, a tunnel is a totally different design from a Tarptent, but if the goal is light weight, a reasonable alternative, from what I see online.

I briefly owned a Cloudburst, which I never used in the field, but did set up a couple of times. A winter version of that, with a big vestbule added to it, would seem to work for mild winter conditions.

Now, I may be wrong, but I would not expect a Tarptent to withstand the same weather as a four or five pole winter tent like a Mountain Tent, Trango or similar design.

4 person, 4 season.. I should learn to read.

I will state unequivocally that the only 4-season model(s) you will see from us will be double-wall. I don't like to be cold and single-wall shelters are just too cold for me in cold weather. Not that double-wall shelters are exactly warm in cold weather but they're warmer than single-wall and every degree helps. YMMV.

Now, can you all please just let this thread die with peace and dignity...

-H

At Bigfoot's request, after he talked to Henry, I have unlocked this thread. However, please keep it on topic, which means about the new Sublite, as a courtesy to Henry.

I'll try to get the discussion back on topic....

For Bigfoot:

When I look at the photos I can't tell if there are any tie outs to the poles on the tent sides. My guess is not as I imagine that you would adjust the pole angle if/when the silnylon sags. It would add some structural strength and limit any side wall collapse from wind and condensation. Also, being that i do not use treking poles; what kind of poles will be offerred and what will be the weight and length of the poles?

Overall I think it's a very good design. I like how the footbox is designed and that the apex is off-centered on the length side giving a steep wall for your head. I know in my SMD Lunar Solo that on many occassions the silnylon sags to the point it's almost touching my head and when you get up you come in contact with the tent. With condensation on a cold morning it can be very invigorating.

Erik

Yes, there are/will be tieouts/wraps to the poles in two locations along each side to pull the fabric out. Also, the strap connector to the trekking pole handle on each side has a strap tension adjuster so that you can tighten/loosen the distance from base to apex to match your pole length and account for stretch.

The tyvek version has almost no stretch and adjustment, once pitched, is very minimal.

We'll offer some sort of alternative pole/poles. Not sure yet of details. The pole length for the dual poles setup is 135 cm.

-H

Henry,

I'm really intrigued by your Sublite design. I am wondering if you are considering how Pacerpoles might fit into your design. I know they are a niche product in an already niche market, but they do specify an option of an aluminum link-piece to create an A-frame setup. This big difference is that the poles would be used upright (tips in the ground) rather than upside down (tips in the sky). I'm not sure if the angle is adjustable, so I don't even know if it would work for your design. It just struck me that the Sublite might be the perfect application for the Pacerpole A-frame setup.

I don't have any Pacerpoles here to try out but I see no reason why they wouldn't work. The trekking pole handle adapters at ground level should work with anything. And the Sublite apex trekking pole tip adapter clips into a loop in the canopy so it's removable and replaceable with anything that lifts the canopy from above. I can't find any diagram of the Pacerpole A-frame setup but I see no reason why you couldn't clip into it if you want to use the Pacerpoles handle side up.

-H

Very cool Henry, thanks for the info. I've just bought a pair of Pacerpoles being delivered today; if I decide to keep them, I'll buy the attachment accessory, measure the A-frame angle, and post some photos.

The Pacer Poles have a molded handle that may not grip or be damaged on the ground.(?) I'll check that out when I'll go into town next.
Henry, you could always ask Brian , he has them.
Franco
BTW, I use my pole with the handle up on my Contrail, but I cannot remember why now...

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/...le_pagination=1

An actual review of the Sublite.

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />