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#94944 - 04/22/08 05:18 PM The North Face gone North?
neijiy Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 5
TNF has had a great reputation in the outdoor world, specifically the backpacking and mountaineering communities. I'd heard people complaining about how they have begun to cater more to the Dick's crowd (i.e. the larger consumer market), but until recently I had still put a lot of faith in them. Here's why:

Exhibit A: Quality. My TNF hyvent jacket began to leak buckets recently. The inner lining appeared to have pealed off on the inside on the shoulder, so I thought that might be the problem at first, but not only did it begin to leak on the shoulders, but through the hood! It was about 4 years-old, and used pretty lightly. (I only backpacked with it once or twice, most of its use was for winter wear). Unfortunately I purchased it from their outlet so I couldn't claim warranty. I have since replaced it with an REI ultralight after they told me that they would still take it back after any number of years if such a problem occurred.

Exhibit B: Customer Service. I got a TNF Solaris 40 in the Fall of last year, and recently the hip belt buckle broke for no particular reason it seems. I sent them two e-mails, over a few weeks, and got no answers, so I called them about 2 and a half weeks ago. The representative was pretty helpful and professional, he apologized for the inconvenience (though he neglected to explain why my emails had been ignored), and promised to ship out a buckle the next day. Up till today, I hadn't gotten anything, so I called again this afternoon. I repeated the situation to the girl. She just seemed to sort of suck her teeth and only replied when I said, 'Hello, anyone still there?' It was not the most pleasant conversation. She was terse and unapologetic. I told her it was a Solaris 40, and then she wanted me to let her know the size of buckle I wanted (!) Finally I asked her whether there was anything wrong over there at TNF, and she just sorta said, I don't know why the last person didn't get it out to you, but I can make sure it does. I left it at that.

Exhibit C: What does a lifetime warranty mean? Here's what TNF says on its website:

The North Face products are fully warranted to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the product. If a product ever fails due to a manufacturing defect, even after extended use, we will repair the product, without charge, or replace it, at our discretion. This warranty does not cover damage caused by accident, improper care, negligence, normal wear and tear, or the natural breakdown of colors and materials over extended time and use. Damage not covered under warranty will be repaired for a reasonable rate and a fee will be charged for return shipping

The liner of my trusty old 6-year-old TNF backpack (a lobster), one which I happened to buy new (i.e. not from an outlet) had been falling off in pieces for quite awhile (at least a year or two). I finally decided that it was time to send it back to their warranty department. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that a lining of a day pack should not be falling to pieces everywhere, even after 5-6 years of use. It was still usable, and thus within the lifetime of the product. I got a call back from them within a week or two, and the lady there told me that the breakdown of the liner could be caused by water damage, or for other reasons... and that the liner of a pack would normally only be covered for a year! She offered to sell me a new pack at 50% off, and I decided to take the offer (this pack was the Solaris 40 mentioned above). In retrospect, I should have made a stronger case with her then. What she told me seems to imply is that TNF has a lifetime warranty, but it expects the life of its packs to only be a year! How confidence inspiring is that?

I would be interested to hear the experience of others with TNF's warranty department. Personally, I am seriously reconsidering any purchase of TNF stuff, unless perhaps its from REI, EMS or some other retailer who will always stand by it.

Yi-Jien
My experience with The North Face's Warranty Department is:
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 04/22/08 12:00 AM
View the results of this poll.

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#94945 - 04/22/08 05:26 PM Re: The North Face gone North? [Re: neijiy]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Sorry, never bought TNF. Too expensive, and heavy.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#94946 - 04/22/08 06:25 PM Re: The North Face gone North? [Re: finallyME]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
I've never dealt with their warranty department because I never have had to. My TNF gear hasn't had a lot of use (except my old mountain parka, that still looks in good condition), but no problems with any of it at all. I've used TNF tents and own two down parkas

Backpacking gear doesn't last forever, whether or not you think it should.

Bashing TNF has been a cottage industry for a long time. If you don't like their stuff, go buy something else.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#94947 - 04/22/08 08:58 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: TomD]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Not sure if:

Quote:
Backpacking gear doesn't last forever, whether or not you think it should.


addresses neijiy's frustrations with this written warranty:

Quote:
The North Face products are fully warranted to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the product. If a product ever fails due to a manufacturing defect, even after extended use, we will repair the product, without charge, or replace it, at our discretion. This warranty does not cover damage caused by accident, improper care, negligence, normal wear and tear, or the natural breakdown of colors and materials over extended time and use. Damage not covered under warranty will be repaired for a reasonable rate and a fee will be charged for return shipping


Seems like if one is going to make that warranty statement (and charge the customer for it with a steep price), well, one maybe ought to honor it.

But my disdain from

THE
NORTH
FACE


comes from my inability to trek into the wilderness while being a walking billboard for a gear manufacturer, and quirky as it is, it's why I've NEVER owned a single piece of The North Face gear.

In the old days, I'd sew a 'park patch' over other less obvious brands stitched on hiking gear -- and I never saw a park patch big enough to cover TNF gear logo.

Spend anytime here on this forum and at the online retailers and it's easy to spot gear brands on the trail. 'That's an Arc'terix pack,' 'there's a Six Moons Designs Lunar Solo tent,' without having to have the brand posted billboard fashion on the gear.

My time on the trail is an escape from urban life. We've got billboards everywhere in Miami -- they're ugly, unaesthetic, and at times gross. We've got "mobile billboards" -- trucks with huge signs on their beds driving around (with gas near $4/gal. and that sign their sole load) -- another reason I don't want to see those mobile billboards in nature, on the trail.

Some kids live by their labels. Abercrombie & Fitch, replaced by Hollister, soon to be replaced by ??? It's the passage of youth, but then it's really not, since many kids by age 10 have already snubbed their noses at being a billboard lemming, no matter how much the slick advertising (conceived by conniving adults) builds up that peer pressure to purchase, put on and fit in.

To each their own. But if I am going to be a walking billboard, then my advertiser better darn well honor that written warranty of theirs in exchange for plastering their logo on my clothing or my gear.

(Enjoyed the post, neijiy, but with no profile info and this being you're first post, I'm just hoping that in our troubled economic times, that you're not a desperate TNF competitor.)
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#94948 - 04/22/08 09:45 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: kevonionia]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Read that warranty carefully. I don't think the OP understands what it says. I think I do and again, I stand by my earlier statement-don't expect things to last forever.

The warranty excludes normal wear and tear " or the natural breakdown of colors and materials over extended time and use." You can't read just the part of the warranty you want to enforce without reading the rest of it. Unless the warranty says "we will replace this product for any reason at any time," then expect there to be certain exclusions.

That is what he says happened to his pack-the waterproofing broke down after 5-6 years. Same thing happened to my SD tent after a few years stored in its bag. Remember, you are dealing with synthetic materials and coatings that are subjected to water, air pollutants, etc. If the pack had come apart due to stitching problems, then that would be a different story.

Sure, the surly girl on the phone could have been more polite, but there are ways to deal with that-I just demand to talk to a supervisor and if that doesn't help, I write to company officers and complain.

My other suggestion-read the warranty before buying whatever it is. If you don't understand it completely, ask; if you don't like the warranty, buy something else. Some states have specific statutes that preclude some exclusions or grant buyers certain rights other states don't.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#94949 - 04/23/08 11:09 AM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: kevonionia]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
But my disdain from

THE
NORTH
FACE


comes from my inability to trek into the wilderness while being a walking billboard for a gear manufacturer, and quirky as it is, it's why I've NEVER owned a single piece of The North Face gear.

In the old days, I'd sew a 'park patch' over other less obvious brands stitched on hiking gear -- and I never saw a park patch big enough to cover TNF gear logo.

Spend anytime here on this forum and at the online retailers and it's easy to spot gear brands on the trail. 'That's an Arc'terix pack,' 'there's a Six Moons Designs Lunar Solo tent,' without having to have the brand posted billboard fashion on the gear.

My time on the trail is an escape from urban life. We've got billboards everywhere in Miami -- they're ugly, unaesthetic, and at times gross. We've got "mobile billboards" -- trucks with huge signs on their beds driving around (with gas near $4/gal.) -- another reason I don't want to see those mobile billboards in nature, on the trail.

Some kids live by their labels. Abercrombie & Fitch, replaced by Hollister, soon to be replaced by ??? It's the passage of youth, but then it's really not, since many kids by age 10 have already snubbed their noses at being a billboard lemming, no matter how much the slick advertising (conceived by conniving adults) builds up that peer pressure to purchase, put on and fit in.

To each their own. But if I am going to be a walking billboard, then my advertiser better darn well honor that written warranty of theirs in exchange for plastering their logo on my clothing or my gear.

(Enjoyed the post, neijiy, but with no profile info and this being you're first post, I'm just hoping that in our troubled economic times, that you're not a desperate TNF competitor.)


They're just labels <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.....

But I know I have my own pet peeves that are probably less significant than concerns over commericialism.

I don't own much TNF because of price and weight. Otherwise, it's all HYOH.
_________________________
http://www.trailjournals.com/BearpawAT99/

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#94950 - 04/23/08 11:54 AM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: Bearpaw]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Bearpaw:

Yep, but it's not a pet peeve, but an obsessive sickness. In college, I used to remove the labels from products like pickle jars and ketchup bottles in the refrigerator, much to my roommates' annoyance. I had my long sleeve dress-shirts 'monogrammed' with my social security number (since that was my real identity at a 40K+student university.) I'm sure my roomies were all secretly relieved that I wasn't then and still am not a gun nut.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#94951 - 04/23/08 11:54 AM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: kevonionia]
neijiy Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 5
Quote:
(Enjoyed the post, neijiy, but with no profile info and this being you're first post, I'm just hoping that in our troubled economic times, that you're not a desperate TNF competitor.)


no, just a frustrated consumer... was looking for somewhere to vent and find out whether others had similar experiences.

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#94952 - 04/23/08 12:34 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: neijiy]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
I gave up on TNF stuff about 10 years ago when I started putting it on a scale.

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#94953 - 04/23/08 12:45 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: Paddy_Crow]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Yep, even about the same time. I still have some because they are so overbuilt. Maybe that explains the weight.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#94954 - 04/23/08 01:49 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: ringtail]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
I checked in some people coming back from a Moorings charter in Belize over the weekend and they had a really nice dry bag that I was admiring -- even though it was bright yellow and had that monster TNF logo on it. It was well-built and weighed a ton -- perfect if you've got a sherpa or bag bearer along -- or in this case at least, a cabin boy.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#94955 - 04/23/08 02:20 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: kevonionia]
Glenn Offline
member

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 2617
Loc: Ohio
The "gun nut" part probably wouldn't have bothered them unless you started showing an unnatural curiousity about the height of the bell tower.

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#94956 - 04/23/08 03:32 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: Glenn]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
You're psychic, Glenn, cause I went to UT a decade after Charles Whitman left his deplorable legacy atop that Tower.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#94957 - 04/24/08 07:35 AM Good experience here. [Re: TomD]
PhilBiker Offline
member

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 172
Loc: Washington DC area
I agree with the statement that "Bashing TNF has been a cottage industry for a long time. If you don't like their stuff, go buy something else." Seems like few companies in backpacking garner the particular negativity like TNF. Don't know why.

First I should say that I am not obsessive about weight (which I understand puts me a little out of place here). I do like to save weight when I can, but I don't have a scale and I don't have the "lightest" of anything. Second, I am not a hardcore backpacker, I am a very casual backpacking camper. I do weekends only, occasionally a 3-4 day trip. The longest trip I've ever been on is 6 days in Alaska.

I almost never pay full price for anything. I always pick up deals at outlets and clearance houses like Sierra Trading Post and Campmor. Therefore the high price that people often complain about for TNF gear is not an issue for me. Also, when I look at TNF compared to other comparable products I don't see justification for the price complaints.

About 6-7 years ago I found a great deal on a mid-sized (3500) "Springbok" backpack from The North Face to replace my ancient external frame pack. I have been extremely happy with the pack. It is comfortable and extremely rugged and is holding up very, very well. I have no intentions nor interest in replacing it and it will probably hold up for many years to come..

This year I dropped by their outlet in NY and picked up (for very good prices!) a 3-season sleeping bag and a 2 man tent. I have not used the tent yet, a trip I just went on I used my older, larger model. The bag so far has been great, I have high expectations of the tent.

I have not had to deal with TNF's warrantee department, but I've been very satisfied with their products. I don't find their logo any more offensive than the "Eureka" logo on my large tent or the "Gregory" one on my friend's backpack or any of a hundred other logos.

I like The North Face.
_________________________
PhilBIker

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#94958 - 04/24/08 11:01 AM Re: The North Face gone North? [Re: neijiy]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
The only TNF item I use is a Nuptse Jacket, purchased on sale. I chose that particular model over other brands because, for my particular needs, it presented me the best compromise between weight, insulation value, quality and price. That specific piece of gear works for me and I'm happy with it. There are other TNF products that I would never consider buying for a number of reasons, but the same is true for almost any other brand.

Terms like "too heavy" and "too expensive" are completely relative and vary from consumer to consumer.

Like any other line, TNF products suit some people better than others.

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#94959 - 04/24/08 12:58 PM Re: The North Face gone North? [Re: neijiy]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
I thought only high school kids bought TNF anymore. Support your cottage industries (until they sell out to TNF).

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#94960 - 04/24/08 01:55 PM Re: The North Face gone North? [Re: neijiy]
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
The jacket should not likely have started to leak quite that soon. But being you found it at an outlet it's possible that you bought something that may have been a factory second or a discontinued product due to problems with the material.

I'm not certain why you would bother a customer service department for an under $5 plastic buckle, but to each their own.

The coating on nylon peels over time, it's just the way it is. It doesn't matter what brand you have, eventually the coating will peel off.

You got lousy phone service, but most of your complaints about the products themselves are overblown. TNF in today's world is just another brand name, they no longer resemble the company they were in the 1960's and 1970's when they created their reputation.

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#94961 - 04/24/08 04:09 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: TomD]
TomTrout Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 18
Quote:
Read that warranty carefully. I don't think the OP understands what it says. I think I do and again, I stand by my earlier statement-don't expect things to last forever.

The warranty excludes normal wear and tear " or the natural breakdown of colors and materials over extended time and use." You can't read just the part of the warranty you want to enforce without reading the rest of it. Unless the warranty says "we will replace this product for any reason at any time," then expect there to be certain exclusions.

That is what he says happened to his pack-the waterproofing broke down after 5-6 years. Same thing happened to my SD tent after a few years stored in its bag. Remember, you are dealing with synthetic materials and coatings that are subjected to water, air pollutants, etc. If the pack had come apart due to stitching problems, then that would be a different story.

Sure, the surly girl on the phone could have been more polite, but there are ways to deal with that-I just demand to talk to a supervisor and if that doesn't help, I write to company officers and complain.

My other suggestion-read the warranty before buying whatever it is. If you don't understand it completely, ask; if you don't like the warranty, buy something else. Some states have specific statutes that preclude some exclusions or grant buyers certain rights other states don't.


I think labeling it a lifetime warranty is misleading. In fact, it quite clearly is not a "lifetime" warranty. The label "lifetime warranty" does not connote "lifetime so long as you do not use the product." The "normal wear and tear" exception to the warranty is the exception that swallows the rule. I find it annoying.

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#94962 - 04/24/08 07:02 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: TomTrout]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Warranties have been the subject of litigation and legislation for years. Most states and the feds have consumer protection laws that deal with warranty problems.

I agree, "lifetime warranty" plus a lot of exceptions equals unhappy customers and plenty of work for lawyers.

I also have a Nuptse. Got mine at the now closed outlet store in Cabazon, CA. $100 for a down jacket isn't bad and its a nice jacket.

My TNF parkas each have one logo on the front and one on the back-that's it. My mountain park, vintage mid 80's has one postage stamp sized patch on one sleeve, plus the buttons say North Face if you get close enough to read them, so I don't understand all the fuss over logos.

My Nordica ski jacket has a Nordica logo on it. My skis say Atomic all over them in big red letters and my ski suit has a big Colmar logo on it. My car says Ford all over it. None of this particularly bothers me.


Edited by TomD (04/24/08 07:03 PM)
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#94963 - 04/24/08 09:35 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: TomD]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hi Tom et All
My wife still wears my 20 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> year old original TNF goretex mountain light jacket as her winter goretex shell [we live in Bend] <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />and it still functions perfectly, shows little wear, the snaps still work and the zipper is like new. The don't make em like they used to... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My TNF mtn 24 tent is as bomber and well made as any tent. OTOH I have had two different Marmot coats delaminate. My old Marmot 40 below down hybrid expedition coat simpley cannot be replaced so I live with a bit of measles in it. Most of my gear is Marmot and most of it is very fine.

I bought my Kelty White Cloud for $500 in 1988. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I returned my backpack to Kelty in 2005 Because the waterproofing was coming off like dandruff on my gear, after several hundred nights use, and kelty replaced it for free with a new $850 backpack, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />also spectra. My old pack is a Kelty Tioga external frame - yep just as good as new. You pay for quality, but with it you get service. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#94964 - 04/25/08 05:24 AM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: TomD]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
My car says Ford all over it.


I knew there was a reason I liked you... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#94965 - 04/25/08 06:07 AM Re: Good experience here. [Re: PhilBiker]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Seems like few companies in backpacking garner the particular negativity like TNF. Don't know why.


I think a part of it is the the "sell-out" idea. TNF was literally bought and sold 3 times between 1999 and 2001, eventually becoming the property of Vanity Fair Enterprises, which bought them essentially for brand recognition. And for several there was no innovation in gear while other companies were investing in the lighter-but-still very strong gear market that has lowered typical pack weights by 20-50 % of their pre-Y2K standards. And their prices actually seemed to go up.

This is why so many college students who will only see the outdoors while walking to class from their dorms are covered in North Face clothing.

I was guilty of turning my nose up to those I saw wearing North Face as "posers" for a long term because, as an REI employee, I saw so much less expensive high quality lighter weight gear that new hikers wouldn't buy because they thought North Face was the end-all-be-all. Then I stepped off on the John Muir Trail last summer with the lightest, best gear I'd ever carried on a backpacking trip. And I had to pull off with a stress fracture after 60 miles..........

It just reinforced what I'd always known but somehow forgotten. It's about the journey, not the gear. It's about the hiker, not the pack. I'd put on a LOT of weight in 3 years of working full time and part time while earning my masters degree. I could still make miles, but my musculo-skeletal system was struggling.

So I got back to being healthy, both physically and mentally. I have nearly all my weekends to myself now, and I backpack at least once a month. I've lost 45 pounds since New Year's and I intend to lose another 50 more so I'll be back at my fighting weight in the Marine Corps. And I'm just overjoyed to be out walking the hills.

And when I cross some one wearing North Face Gear, I simply am glad to see others out there hiking, which is what it really is all about for me.
_________________________
http://www.trailjournals.com/BearpawAT99/

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#94966 - 04/25/08 07:29 AM Re: Good experience here. [Re: Bearpaw]
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
During the era when the North Face solidified their reputation as making great gear they were the first, or one of the first, to grasp the idea of modern marketing and creating a brand image. The North Face did this with the great catalogs featuring exploits in exotic locations by Ned Gillette and Galen Rowell and the like. I think sponsorship of these expeditions helped propel the North Face far ahead of many competitors. To this day, the North Face still has ads featuring high profile climbers such as Conrad Anker. The sponsorship doesn't make their gear any better, but it does make it more desirable by the average reader of Outside or Backpacker.

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#94967 - 05/11/08 07:52 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: TomD]
neijiy Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 5
Quote:
Read that warranty carefully. I don't think the OP understands what it says. I think I do and again, I stand by my earlier statement-don't expect things to last forever.

The warranty excludes normal wear and tear " or the natural breakdown of colors and materials over extended time and use." You can't read just the part of the warranty you want to enforce without reading the rest of it. Unless the warranty says "we will replace this product for any reason at any time," then expect there to be certain exclusions.

That is what he says happened to his pack-the waterproofing broke down after 5-6 years. Same thing happened to my SD tent after a few years stored in its bag. Remember, you are dealing with synthetic materials and coatings that are subjected to water, air pollutants, etc. If the pack had come apart due to stitching problems, then that would be a different story.

Sure, the surly girl on the phone could have been more polite, but there are ways to deal with that-I just demand to talk to a supervisor and if that doesn't help, I write to company officers and complain.

My other suggestion-read the warranty before buying whatever it is. If you don't understand it completely, ask; if you don't like the warranty, buy something else. Some states have specific statutes that preclude some exclusions or grant buyers certain rights other states don't.


My main beef with the warranty thing was that one of their staff told me that they would normally only cover the liner of a daypack for the FIRST YEAR. I understand very well that things break down, and that no one covers anything from breakdown of materials... However, what this implies is that TNF now considers the lifetime of a TNF pack to be only one year. If it a lining breaks down before that, well that's natural breakdown of material, could be water damage, humidity etc. she told me... (And I've read of others who have had similar experience. If taken widely enough, anything could be "natural breakdown of material." It's really quite subjective.)

Based on the reviews that TNF stuff gets--they continue to get mention in Backpacker Magazine every so often--and my own experience with a variety of their things, I have to say that they are not totally a fashion company, though they certainly pander to that market heavily. They do continue to engineer and design good stuff. In fact, I have been thinking about their Apex Jackets recently because they are well reviewed, and TNF cut just fits me well. However, based on my experience with their warranty department, I'm not inclined to purchase any TNF stuff unless it is from REI, who will take care of any warranty issues, or if I buy it knowing that anything that happens to it, basically no matter what, I will have to deal with myself. (And if I buy a Apex, it will be with the latter understanding).

And by the way. After two unreplied emails and two promises from two different members of their staff to send me a buckle for my Solaris, two months later, I still haven't got one. Went to a local shop and picked up one for a buck. I hope you have better luck with their warranty department. I don't think I'll bother calling them again!

Yi-Jien

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#94968 - 05/11/08 10:04 PM Re: The North Face gone South? [Re: neijiy]
Amphib Offline
member

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 65
Loc: Sonora Desert

My opinion on NF changed around 1998, it got worse quickly after that. I am just recalling all the BS as the middle man I/we went through on the retailer end the following years. They went through different owners etc. never got better. There is more to the story but it fuzzy in my mind now.

During that time I happened to spend a night in the salamander tent, and I liked it. I have seen vintage NF gear too, it's too bad.

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