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#94701 - 04/23/08 10:20 AM Re: Question about cookware [Re: jorgoz]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
"J",

I use only coated aluminum for my cookware. In particular I use a JetBoil 1.5 L. pot B/C its bottom "Flux Ring" corrugated heat exchanger & neoprene side cozy really make the most efficient pot I've found. It actually heats 2 cups of water faster than my buddy's narrower original Jetboil pot beause it has a wider base.

Also the Flux Ring heat exchanger around the botttom works so well to spread heat & capture it that, when the pot has only one cup H2O left it boils around the outer edge, above the Flux Ring!

I bought a Japanese made Ti skillet. AAArrrggghh! It has a center hot spot and will NOT spread heat evenly with any of my 6 stoves. Sell it to you for $5. You pay shipping.

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#94702 - 04/23/08 02:41 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: 300winmag]
jorgoz Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/06
Posts: 151
Loc: Belgium
Thx for the offer on the ti-skillet, but just bought myself a new trangia UL hard anodised 1.75 l pot, weighs only 4.2 ounces. I've been experimenting with it and i'm not quite sure what' happening with this new pot. With my alky, well one of'em <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, i get a small boil going, it makes a sound i've never heard when boiling. Sounds more high pitched and also i don't get a real 'rolling' boil going either.

Also tried it on my msr canister stove, think it's called a simmerlite, and the pot discolored in the center, it now has a rainbow color center spot.

I've noticed the material is thinner than older trangia 1l non-stick pot, with which i get a much better boil going, using the same setup. Prob smaller diameter and more even heat distribution does the trick.

I've also been experimenting with a food can, holds 900ml and to my big supprise, i'm getting the best boils going in these things. Takes longer than any of my other pots, but it's the strongest. Probaby coz it steel and the smaller diameter. Anyome use something like that for cooking pot ? Also it's quite light. The hole shebang, pot-lid--stove-potstand-primer pan-windscreen-potgrip weighs 124 grams.

And to my big shame i bought myself a new canister stove. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Just couldn't resist the very tempting offer on the brunton crux. But isn't it the coolest stove around. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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#94703 - 04/23/08 05:50 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: 300winmag]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Winmag

Geez I love my Ti skillet. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I use it for a plate and often, just to prove a point, I make beautiful pancakes for breakfast, over a campfire <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

You have to pretty much hold the pan handle in your hand and flip often... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#94704 - 04/23/08 08:33 PM "Pancakes...Mmmmmmmm" [Re: Jimshaw]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
"Pancakes...Mmmmmmmmmm." (to quote Homer Simpson)

Yeah, I love to make buckwheat cakes in camp & fry up some rehydrated freeze-dried sausage or reheat some turkey bacon I've cooked at home. (Real bacon if it's winter camping, where I need the fat.) But I make 'em on a coated aluminum fry pan.

I keep honey & jam in refillable tubes inside a Ziploc, and in winter they have to stay warm in a chest pocket to stay useable.

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#94705 - 04/24/08 06:52 AM Re: Question about cookware [Re: phat]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Well, I always learn everything the hard way. My son and I just completed a three night trip to the Ponca wilderness area. I carried 3 stoves. A trangia and 2 pop can stoves. The pop can stove did the best job. The trangia used to much fuel and burned out to fast. As far as cookware, I carried a cheap coleman $5 that did great for making pancakes (good but what a mess to clean). The down side to that cheap set was the aluminum cup. Hot to hold and cooled to fast. Same with the bowl/plate. I will replace with plastic. The shining light on the whole cookset was the heine pot setup with a cone windscreen. My pack weight was right at 30 lbs with water. I figure I can get it down to 20 the next trip.

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#94706 - 04/24/08 07:11 AM Pancakes during Blueberry season are the best! [Re: 300winmag]
PhilBiker Offline
member

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 172
Loc: Washington DC area
Camp pancakes are one of the best things ever. Turning them without a spatula is a bit of a challenge but it can be done.

The best is hiking during blueberry season. For my week long trip to Resurrection Pass a few years ago (that's my avatar pic - part of a big panorama with me in the pass) it was mid-August. We stopped and picked berries for at least an hour. Sure, only half of the berries went into the pot, but there was still enough for a blueberry pancake feast the next morning. One of the best trail breakfasts ever!

Fresh eggs are another staple which also requires a more utilitarian cookset. Eggs will last a few days ouside the fridge, they are heavy to carry compared to powdered, but it is so worth it when you wake up. An aluminum packpacking percolator is another cook luxury I enjoy!
_________________________
PhilBIker

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#94707 - 04/24/08 10:14 AM Re: Pancakes during Blueberry season are the best! [Re: PhilBiker]
jorgoz Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/06
Posts: 151
Loc: Belgium
One of the reasons i bought the 1.75 l pot is so i can use it as a cooking pot and as a pan to bake pancales. Double use.

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#94708 - 04/24/08 04:00 PM Re: Pancakes during Blueberry season are the best! [Re: PhilBiker]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Phil
I have 6 blueberry plants in my backyard. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Last year we got a lot of big tastey fruit. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know pancakes while camping requires a blackbelt in camp cookery. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> All I can say is - use a low fire, preheat your pan, use oil, keep the pan moving, carry a spatula, and flip often. As lng as you keep flipping, they don't burn. SO anyway I guess we know the secret now huh? - do you have a spatula? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Oh yeh - look if you want really nice pancakes and you already have eggs, oil, spatula, skillet - take maple syrup. We now carry the litle bottle on the annual gourmet trip - its great in coffee or tea or anyplace you need a sweetener. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Disclaimer - I would personally never ruin a good cup of java with sweetener, just cream. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#94709 - 04/24/08 04:11 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: jorgoz]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Titanium cook ware is very thin. In all heat transfer equations you have to divide by the thickness of the material, thus the absolute heat transfer numbers for the material [do you have the correct alloy BTW?] are insignificant. If you put two identical evernew pots one SS and one Ti on snow and pour an equal amount of hot water in them from one larger pan, the water in the Ti pan will cool more quickly. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> One would assume that it is thinner. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> This might not be a good thing for cooking. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Aluminum is nice because you can have a thicker pan which distributes the heat better, for the same weight. For a long time there was an aluminum scare so everyone used SS. Titanium is great for heating water in, and it can reach extremely high temps without "burning", much higher than steel, thus the usage in aircraft in extreme environments. It doesn't hurt a pan to "oxidise". It can be sand blasted or scoured clean with sand. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Frankly if you enjoy cooking and simmering - get aluminum, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />but I'd be be cautious of non-stick because if fluorocarbons get too hot they can give off deadly gas. Same with painted pans - I have one set painted with car exhaust header paint baked on it an oven, BUT in direct stove flame it gets hot enough to outgas. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#94710 - 04/26/08 01:53 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: Jimshaw]
jorgoz Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/06
Posts: 151
Loc: Belgium
I'll go with alu for sure. I tried my food can pot setup with my msr canister stove and it takes a couple of minutes longer to get 500ml to a boil and uses more fuel in the proces.

Still not sure which alu pot though. I got a new trangia ul hard anodised alu but it's noticably thinner than my previous alu non-stick trangia pot. I guess this thinner alu pot wouldn't have such a good heat transfer ?

Also when i try to get a boil going it sounds sharper and higher pitched, don't know if this makes any sense to ya'all. Also tried it with my canister stove and it got me a nice rainbow colored spot in the middle of the hard anodised pot. Is this normal ?

I'll also ditch my potgrip and use one of my bandana's instead.

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#94711 - 04/26/08 05:40 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: jorgoz]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Jorgoz

<< I guess this thinner alu pot wouldn't have such a good heat transfer ? >>

Actually the thinner one will transfer heat more easily, but the thicker one will spread the heat more as it passes through the metal. My Ti skillet [evernew] is only 10 thousandths thick.

<<Also tried it with my canister stove and it got me a nice rainbow colored spot in the middle of the hard anodised pot. Is this normal ?>>

Yes - the pan is a bit scorched. You can clean it and avoid it happening by keeping liquid water in the pan when it on the stove so the metal doesn't get up to the temperature of the flame. But it doesn't hurt anything - clean with sand or scouring powder. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<<I'll also ditch my potgrip and use one of my bandana's instead.>>

You might be sorry. Its like the reason I carry metal fork - it doesn't melt. Buy pans with light fold out handles instead. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#94712 - 04/26/08 11:16 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: Jimshaw]
jorgoz Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/06
Posts: 151
Loc: Belgium
Quote:

Yes - the pan is a bit scorched. You can clean it and avoid it happening by keeping liquid water in the pan when it on the stove so the metal doesn't get up to the temperature of the flame.


It happened when i boiled water in it.

Quote:

But it doesn't hurt anything - clean with sand or scouring powder. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


I think using sand is the best cleaning method. But a while back i was told that the anodisation proces puts a very thin coat on alu pots, which can be damaged like non-stick, but not as easily. Wouldn't using sand start to sand away this coat little by little ?


Edited by jorgoz (04/26/08 11:18 PM)

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#94713 - 04/26/08 11:22 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: jorgoz]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
jargoz
sorry
I never had a fancy coated aluminum pan, I just assumed it was an old boy scout pan like mine.

You better not use sand on anything but bare metal.

Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
#94714 - 04/27/08 03:48 AM Re: Question about cookware [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Magnesium griddles were never a source of fires.

In fine powder form, or filament form, many metals burn in air. Fine steel wool is an example.

It is called the surface to volume ratio. After all, combustion starts at the surface where hot metal and oxygen meet.

Many of these "metal to metal" comparisons are in danger of combustion because of hot air being freely circulated. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

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#94715 - 04/27/08 06:32 AM Re: Question about cookware [Re: Roocketman]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Magnesium burns quite readily and not just in foil form. Just check with any insurance agent about what it costs to insure a plant that machines mag. Or check with a sailor who has done flight deck duty. But that's not to say it can't be near an open flame, it takes more than a flick of your Bic.

I had never heard of titanium burning prior to this thread. I've just never worked with it. So while the links I posted do indicate that it's plausible, I think it would require that someone be pretty careless. When your pot is glowing red, it's probably close to the right temperature. I can't imagine letting my pot get there, though.

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#94716 - 04/27/08 09:37 AM Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookware [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
This is from the "Journal of Metals"
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0005/Poulsen-0005.html

This article is probably not "hot air" by amateurs discussing metallurgy.

INTRODUCTION

The titanium industry dates back to the turn of the century, although commercial production of the metal actually started in about 1950. By the end of 1999, the industry was producing more than 100 million pounds per year. Early on, safety problems arose from a lack of knowledge regarding furnace design and related explosions. The knowledge at the time was based on steel technology, and the hydrogen explosions were a completely new problem. When molten titanium reacts with water, the titanium metal breaks down the water, absorbing the oxygen and liberating the hydrogen, which results in a major explosion. During the first five years of the industry, furnace explosions killed six employees.

The next problems that plagued the industry were fire and explosions from sponge and fines fire, which killed four employees. The third problem was confined space entry. Five fatalities have resulted from argon, nitrogen, and other inert gases.


METAL FIRES AND EXPLOSIONS OCCURRING IN THE HANDLING OF FINES, SPONGE, AND TURNINGS

The most prevalent accident occurring in the industry during the past 50 years has been metal fires. The major cause is poor housekeeping and inexperienced operators. Using the fire triangle as a base, there is always fuel for the fire when working with finely divided metals. When handling the material in the atmosphere, there is always oxygen available. Thus, the controllable leg of the triangle is the ignition source, even though the extent of the loss can be controlled by design and housekeeping.

In the past year, the titanium industry has experienced five major fires at a cost of well over $1 million. All were preventable. We can do better.

* A magnesium fire at Timet Henderson was caused by charging molten magnesium into a wet mold at a cost of $200,000 and two injuries.
* A dust-collector fines fire at the Albany Casting Plant was caused by housekeeping and a bad dust collector at a cost of $250,000. No injuries.
* A dust-collector fire at THT was caused by mechanical problems at a cost of $150,000. No injuries.
* A magnesium fire at Timet Henderson was caused by 1,000 pounds of spilled molten magnesium metal that reacted with water from melted cooling lines at a cost of $300,000 and months of lost production. No injuries.
* A fines fire at Gemeni, a powder pressing plant in Albany, Oregon, was caused by static electricity from a bad electrical motor. There were excessive amounts of powder stored in the area. The cost was $450,000; the company went out of business. No injuries.

n 1974, an employee was working as a press and weld operator. He was running titanium sponge through a 24 to 1 splitter to produce containers of sponge for feed to the press. The material was a blend of Kroll sponge and Hunter process sponge. (The latter material was very fine due to the sodium-reduction manufacturing route.) With 30% of the material split, the material began catching in the tote bin. The operator went to the top of the splitter, which was 30 ft. above ground. He used a metal bar to rap the tote bin to get the metal to flow out of the bin. Evidently, he created a spark that ignited a dust cloud of titanium fines in the area. In an instant, the fire flashed to the ground level and back up. He was completely engulfed in flames and died from his injuries. The ensuing fire is depicted on the cover of this issue of JOM.

The investigation of this accident revealed several shortcomings of the system. First, the dust-collecting system was not adequate to handle the fines content of this material mix. Second, the use of the bar was an ignition source. Third, employees should not be allowed to work in dangerous areas.

Following this accident, the dust-collector system was replaced. The bar was taken out of the area, and procedures were established to keep operators from going to the top of the splitter when it was in operation.

Three lessons were learned from this accident.

* A cloud of metal powder can ignite and burn with explosive force.
* A mechanical spark is enough to ignite a dust cloud.
* Operators must be kept out of harmís way.

There have been other significant metal fires, related fires, and explosions experienced in the industry. When it is realized that even wheat flower in a dust cloud can cause a catastrophic fire, all efforts must be taken to eliminate the dust cloud and the ignition source.

Chemically, titanium has an enormous affinity for oxygen. This results in a thin film of titanium oxide being produced almost instantaneously on the surface of the titanium when exposed to the atmosphere. The titanium-oxide film is inert and protects the underlying metal from further attack.

When a titanium-powder particle is heated to a certain temperature (known as the ignition point), the mass of the particle is so small that the entire particle may oxidize almost instantly. Thus, a pile of such particles will burn. Since sponge particles are much smaller in mass than atomized or granular particles, they will ignite more readily and burn faster than the coarser types of powder.

Fine particles of titanium powder, like some organic powders, such as flour, starch, and coal dust, are easily dispersed in air, where their light mass allows them to remain suspended. Like particles in a pile, they will burn when the ignition temperature is reached; but when dispersed in the air (mixed with oxygen) in a certain proportion, the burning extends from one particle to another with such rapidity (pressure rise in excess of 20,000 psi/s) that a violent explosion results.

Laboratory tests by the US Bureau of Mines and others have established the proportions required for an explosion. They extend throughout a wide range, and very little titanium powder is needed. Very small amounts of energy are required to ignite certain mixtures of titanium powder and air. In some cases, energy as low 25 millijoules may cause ignition.

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#94717 - 04/27/08 11:19 AM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookwa [Re: Roocketman]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
While my science degrees were in mechanical engineering (BSME, MSME) and not metallurgy, I have gained a lot of experience working in the industry for the past 25 years. I don't think it's accurate referring to me as an "amateur" in the field, or to my contributions to the discussion as "hot air."

It takes a fair amount of heat to ignite mag, but once lit it sustains itself and is very difficult to extinguish. I've seen it demonstrated at firefighting school in the USN. The preferred method of extinguishing it is to push the aircraft off the flight deck and into the water.

I'm skeptical as to whether one can ignite a titanium pot over a backpacking stove. However, the information is useful. No sense in being careless.

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#94718 - 04/27/08 11:22 AM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookware [Re: Roocketman]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2802
Loc: NorCal
I'm, uh, "vintage" enough to have had a chemistry set of the dangerous and fun kind. It helpfully supplied magnesium strips to light afire using the equally helpful alcohol burner. Man, does it ever burn! And water has no effect on it once lit.

That said, Coleman's X stoves have magnesium burner legs, so it's not as though the stuff's going to burst into flames in the presence of heated language :-) Still, there's probably a reason you don't see actual magnesium "mag" wheels these days.

A friend who used to own a prototype machine shop did have to take extraordinary care when handling magnesium and storing/disposing the turnings. Aluminum's also a hazard, but not as severe.

He also worked with titanium. I don't recall what he had to do with the turnings, but it was very challenging to work with. I'll ask next time we go hiking.

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#94719 - 04/29/08 09:17 AM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookwa [Re: Rick_D]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Quote:
I'm, uh, "vintage" enough to have had a chemitry set of the dangerous and fun kind. It helpfully supplied magnesium strips to light afire using the equally helpful alcohol burner. Man, does it ever burn! And water has no effect on it once lit.

That said, Coleman's X stoves have magnesium burner legs, so it's not as though the stuff's going to burst into flames in the presence of heated language :-) Still, there's probably a reason you don't see actual magnesium "mag" wheels these days.


The reason may well have nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Magnesium ladders, once popular, were replaced by much cheaper aluminum ones.

Magnesium IS lighter than aluminum, but aluminum alloys are superior in strength and fatigue. The end strength to weight ratio doesn't look particularly good for magnesium.

There must be a reason why over the last 80 years, the lighter (expensive) magnesium alloys haven't displaced the (heavier) cheaper and stronger aluminum alloys.


Quote:

A friend who used to own a prototype machine shop did have to take extraordinary care when handling magnesium and storing/disposing the turnings. Aluminum's also a hazard, but not as severe.


Many metals are a hazard when the surface area is high and the volume is low, such as the infamous magnesium ribbons and machine turnings as well as fine powders.

Quote:

He also worked with titanium. I don't recall what he had to do with the turnings, but it was very challenging to work with. I'll ask next time we go hiking.

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#94720 - 04/29/08 09:46 AM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookwa [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Quote:
While my science degrees were in mechanical engineering (BSME, MSME) and not metallurgy, I have gained a lot of experience working in the industry for the past 25 years. I don't think it's accurate referring to me as an "amateur" in the field, or to my contributions to the discussion as "hot air."


As a retired Materials Scientist/Metallurgist (BSEng, MS, PhD), with long experience (35 years) in the aerospace industry, it is almost always true that the engineers I have worked with have effectively only "amateur" knowledge of the field. There are some exceptions, chemical engineers often "Know" metals by more than knowing their names
But, you almost expect that from the word Chemical.

I suspect that the typical ME is doomed to be a relative amateur in materials much as a mathematician is doomed to be a relative amateur in ME. Even though mathematics is so essential to the ME field.

Quote:

It takes a fair amount of heat to ignite mag, but once lit it sustains itself and is very difficult to extinguish. I've seen it demonstrated at firefighting school in the USN. The preferred method of extinguishing it is to push the aircraft off the flight deck and into the water.


The relevant issue of much of metals burning is the surface area to volume ratio. The surface area is what supports the combustion, and the volume is the "Thermal Damper" that tries to cool the surface down and retard combustion. There is also the issue of the very hot temperatures at the combustion front.

If there isn't enough volume (fine particles or thin wide ribbon), the combustion rate tends to go sky high (because of the high temperatures) with no ability to self extinguish by heat transfer to the colder interior of the combusting item.

When highly reactive metals burn in bulk or fine form, the temperatures are often such that any water sprayed onto them will be decomposed and the oxygen contained in the water will be used to react further with the hot burning metal. In other words, water can aggrivate the burning, not extinguish it.

That is one reason why pushing the burning aircraft off the deck is wise.

Quote:

I'm skeptical as to whether one can ignite a titanium pot over a backpacking stove. However, the information is useful. No sense in being careless.


I too am skeptical about the ignition of a Ti pot over a backpacking stove, but if it is thin enough and the heat is localized and intense enough......

So far, there don't seem to be any reports of burning Titanium cookware.

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#94721 - 04/29/08 10:03 AM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookwa [Re: Roocketman]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
For some reason, this discussion suddenly reminds me of a famous quote from H Ross Perot:

Quote:
(contrasting the cultures of his former company, EDS, and General Motors, which had acquired EDS)

The first EDS'er to see a snake kills it. At GM, first thing you do is organize a committee on snakes. Then you bring in a consultant who knows a lot about snakes. Third thing you do is talk about it for a year.

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#94722 - 04/29/08 02:12 PM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookwa [Re: Roocketman]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
[quote]
I suspect that the typical ME is doomed to be a relative amateur in materials much as a mathematician is doomed to be a relative amateur in ME. Even though mathematics is so essential to the ME field.
[quote]

Well, I have to agree. Since I am finally an ME <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> my first year out of school has shown how little I know of materials. It seems a lot of what I do is material selection, and sometimes it is a lot of trial and error and hit and miss. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But, I have learned a lot about plastics this last year. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#94723 - 04/29/08 04:06 PM Re: Titanium Burning --- Re: Question about cookwa [Re: finallyME]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Well, I have to agree. Since I am finally an ME <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> my first year out of school has shown how little I know of materials. It seems a lot of what I do is material selection, and sometimes it is a lot of trial and error and hit and miss. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But, I have learned a lot about plastics this last year. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

I am unaware of any recent books that will speed up your learning curve. Plastics (polymers) have always been troublesome and the explanations of mechanical behavior in polymers have been of poor quality for as long as I tried to master them..

An old book, written by an automotive race driver (former) is "Engineer to Win" by Carroll Smith. It is really impressive, and only a few mistakes in the whole thing.
Amazon.com link below.
http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Motorbook...&sr=1-1
pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209509084&sr=1-1

Another one, which appears to have a recent edition (that I haven't read) is
" The New Science of Strong Materials or Why You Don't Fall through the Floor" (Princeton Science Library) 2006 by J. E. Gordon and Philip Ball . Available at Amazon.com

J E Gordon is an outstanding writer. Most people can't put these books down. Another classic, perhaps recently revised or at least reissued is:
Structures: Or Why Things Don't Fall Down by J.e. Gordon (Paperback - Jul 8, 2003)

There is also
Materials Selection in Mechanical Design, Third Edition by Michael Ashby (Paperback - Jan 26, 2005) which was excellent in the first edition, and I taught a class based upon it.

And, this too is new, and unread by me, but I greatly enjoyed his previous books on materials science.....
Materials: Engineering, Science, Processing and Design by Michael Ashby, Hugh Shercliff, and David Cebon (Hardcover - Mar 30, 2007)

In one sense, all of the books above were gems by gifted men. Too bad we don't have more like them.

Good luck in becoming materials smart. By this time, it should be much easier than before, but I haven't myself seen & read the recent new books that would make it so.

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#94724 - 04/29/08 06:19 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: jorgoz]
Roocketman Offline
member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 203
Quote:
Quote:
The $$ you save with aluminum will pay for your assisted living when you get Alizimers from aluminum contamination!


I think this is still very dubious this claim and hasn't this been cleared a long time ago ? No more use of tin foil in the kitchen then <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


I first heard of this "aluminum" allegation in 1996 and it was considered outmoded even then.

There are some things that people evidently just love to believe and repeat. Simple solutions to complex problems pan out not too well, mostly.

What an electronic memory is has been well known in detail for a long time.

What a human memory is, physically, is still unknown. No one has seen whatever change it is that occurs when a new memory is created in a brain.

Precisely what Alzheimer's is is still unknown. But we do know how to spell it, finally. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#94725 - 04/29/08 06:44 PM Re: Question about cookware [Re: jorgoz]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
Not ease of cleaning - thats for sure.

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