Backcountry Forum
Backpacking & Hiking Gear

Backcountry Forum
Our long-time Sponsor - the leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear
 
 
 

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#91537 - 02/26/08 06:20 PM New Aqua Mira
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
I just saw that Aqua Mira now has tablets to compete with Katadyn's and the other brand sold by BPL. great to see more coming out it can only drive down the price <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ya still have to wait hours though to kill the critters within <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#91538 - 02/26/08 08:03 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: Earthling]
EricKingston Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 272
Loc: Michigan
You're so impatient... are you really that thirsty?? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Top
#91539 - 02/26/08 10:43 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: Earthling]
mugs Offline
member

Registered: 12/24/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Kent, WA.
Actually it is not as long as a wait as one may think. I was stuck in a "survival" situation to where I had not choice but to dirnk the water that I found in a green/black pond with 2 feet of slit and cow pies all around the perimeter and floating in the water. I treated my water and waited a full hour but never got sick from it. So under the normal conditions the 1/2 hour will do just fine. YMMV
_________________________
I miss my 4.8lb base weight as a ground dweller. But I sure don't miss the ground.

Top
#91540 - 02/26/08 11:24 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: EricKingston]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think filter people are <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I like hiking with filter loving friends.. I mix my aquamira and lollygag in the sun while they fish out the filter. I then walk to the water source shortly after them with my bag - SCOOOP, dump in the yellow poison - cap it and to lollygag in the sun some more - hopefully my hammock is in view of the water source...pump pump pump pump pump.. I can swing in my hammock.. "Hey it's too bad I have to wait.." pump pump pump pump pump.... "Is there a particular repetitive exercise you do with left hand to build up your strength for that thing?"... pump pump pump pump.. Now usually, after fiddling with the filter, they can come back with carpal tunnel syndrome and celebrate that their water was ready 5 minutes before mine.. They always feel very nice that they can have a drink 5 minutes before I do <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top
#91541 - 02/27/08 09:28 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: Earthling]
Rick_D Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 2939
Loc: NorCal
Multi-hour treatment times are always for Crypto. For anybody concerned about Crypto, UV or filtration are a better choice than ClO2.

Quote:
I just saw that Aqua Mira now has tablets to compete with Katadyn's and the other brand sold by BPL. great to see more coming out it can only drive down the price <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ya still have to wait hours though to kill the critters within <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
--Rick

Top
#91542 - 02/27/08 09:42 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: phat]
EricKingston Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 272
Loc: Michigan
Wow LOL... That sounds all too familiar! I had to pump filter water for a crew of 5, including myself, for 5 days. I don't know how or why I ended up doing it every time, but I swear my arm felt like it was about to fall off towards the end of the trip. Talk about a workout. This lead to using other techniques. First, gravity filters, then chemicals. I'm gonna have to try some of these Chlorine Dioxide tabs. I think they might be a good option for me.

Eric

Top
#91543 - 02/27/08 07:35 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: Earthling]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Hijacking this thread, saw this on REI online, http://www.rei.com/product/767831 only at REI. My old First Need is over 20 years old and this new one would filter circles around it, filtering 1.89 liters a minute. Over on TT, they were discussing the new water filter from MSR and some didn't care for MSR stuff, felt it wasn't tested enough before going to market. Too bad this new First Need still weights a pound.

Top
#91544 - 02/27/08 09:22 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: hikerduane]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Over on TT, they were discussing the new water filter from MSR and some didn't care for MSR stuff, felt it wasn't tested enough before going to market.
What's TT and why don't they think MSR tests their stuff adequately?

The new HyperFlow filter was tested for 3+ years before it was introduced to the public. We weren't the first on the market with Hollow Fiber and believed that it needed more testing than our competitors. We test in labs with two types of water (sample 1, typical backcountry water; sample 2, worst case senerio water which is impossible to find in the backcountry anywere). We make absolute sure that both types of water can be filtered depending on the specs of the filter or chemical.

We test in the field for the 3 years mentioned above. We use the military to help us test. By the time we are ready to manufacture it it has gone through thousands of hours of testing both in the lab and in the field. The HyperFlow is rated to ABSOLUTE 0.2 microns which means that anything smaller than 0.2 microns can't get through the filter (depending on the concentration). This is similar to all of the filters on the market.

Sometimes we delay production (i.e. The Reactor) if we find issues in manufacturing. This has been the case with the HyperFlow based on supplier issues. Rest assured when it hits the market it will be as perfect as humanly possible based on our extensive testing. One thing I forgot to mention is that we employ full-time microbiologists who work at our R&D facility in Seattle. They are constantly testing production product and making sure it is viable. We also manufacturer all of our filters in our Seattle facility. There is a lot of oversight and redundancy in how we test and manufacturer.

We don't claim that we can take out viruses mechanically. We believe that First Needs, who has passed the EPA protocol for virus removal, only passed this in a lab. They use positively charged viruses that are attracted to their negatively charged carbon matrix filter. The unfortunate thing is that not all viruses in the backcountry are positively charged. In a lab it works, but in the real world you can't be sure.

All filters today will treat to at least 0.4 microns which is enough to get out giardia and bacteria, the two most threatening bugs in water. Viruses are not as prevalent, and only are concerns outside the USA. If you are worried, simply add a few drops of MSR Viral Stop (diluted sodium hypochlorite) per liter and in 5 minutes you will have virus-free water without the chemical taste.

Did those who made these comments on TT(?) have a reason or a past problem with MSR? Did they have a bad experience, or are they simply clueless?
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#91545 - 02/28/08 05:50 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: jasonlivy]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
The Backpacker. Trail Talk. Not many, but at least one guy has a chip on his shoulder about MSR. They go back and forth. http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/ Here, you will have to look for the thread, sorry. Thanks for the input, the MSR filter is small and light.

Top
#91546 - 02/28/08 09:45 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: hikerduane]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
The Backpacker. Trail Talk. Not many, but at least one guy has a chip on his shoulder about MSR. They go back and forth. http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/ Here, you will have to look for the thread, sorry. Thanks for the input, the MSR filter is small and light.
It looks like to me one of the posters had a bad experience with the MIOX and therefore took out his wrath on anything that was black and red or with the letters MSR. He called the Hubba tent "cumbersome and heavy". This sounds like a guy who has a serious chip on his shoulder. Misery always likes company.

To be frank, Cascade Designs is one of the few companies in the world that tests as much as they do. They are not perfect by any means, but their first priority is to have product that does what it says it does. They have invested everything, including their entire history in the outdoor market, to this end. They search the world for the latest in technology bringing it to the general public in practical, affordable products. It is incredibly difficult to be innovators. For one, no one has done it before which means that it might not work (thus our extensive testing). Two, we put ourselves up for intense scrutiny. There is very little room for error in the world of innovation. Three, we have to develop our own manufacturing on all new products we produce. The hardest part is not developing a new product, but in manufacturing it.

Thank goodness there are companies like Cascade Designs who are willing to step out on a limb and bring to market new, innovative products. How boring would it be if everyone copied everyone else (which goes on way too much)? Luckily we aren't the only company who is dedicated to innovation.

The new HyperFlow will be worth checking out when it comes to market (around May). It does have it's limitations, but for the environment and purpose it was intended for, there isn't a better product.

I hope I didn't come across as arrogant (as I reviewed what I wrote, I did get that sense). Cascade Designs is not free of making errors and has many areas where it could definitely improve both in product, customer service, reps, etc. We all have room for improvement. However, it is frustrating to me to read about false claims and statements in an area where we put a tremendous amount of effort.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#91547 - 02/28/08 10:10 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: jasonlivy]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
I do not have a dog in this fight, but I have had very good experiences with Cascade Designs over the years. They publish an HONEST WEIGHT and the product will perform exactly as described. Customer service is excellent and they stand behind the lifetime warranty.

I have my frustrations with Cascade Designs. Where is the capillary stove? Why did they discontinue Trek'R 3 poles? What happend to Walrus tents?

But they also have consolidated some of the best outdoor products brands.


Edited by food (02/28/08 10:11 AM)

Top
#91548 - 02/28/08 10:13 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: EricKingston]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
Wow LOL... That sounds all too familiar! I had to pump filter water for a crew of 5, including myself, for 5 days. I don't know how or why I ended up doing it every time, but I swear my arm felt like it was about to fall off towards the end of the trip. Talk about a workout. This lead to using other techniques. First, gravity filters, then chemicals. I'm gonna have to try some of these Chlorine Dioxide tabs. I think they might be a good option for me.

Eric


Yeah, I'm one of those <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I love the Hiker filter more than any I've ever used <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> though I no longer have it, and rely on pure dumb luck these days that no one has shi shi'd in my water <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think when in camp a gravity filter would be beneficial for water in larger vloumes to shower, cook, and drink. If just on the trail then chemicals do make life easier. It would depend on what trail though, as I have seen some AT springs that look like mini cesspools, what with all the flies and bugs and debris in the water <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#91549 - 02/28/08 11:30 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: jasonlivy]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Thank you Jason. I have had two Thermorests, and two different MSR stoves over the last 20 odd years, it seems to work.:) No, you aren't arrogant, tell us what you know, I forgot we had someone here from the corp. I need to send in my Internationale for some pro touches, messed with the legs and has a miss, a good cleaning again should fix that. Thanks for the inside scoop. Take care.

Top
#91550 - 02/28/08 06:59 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: hikerduane]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
cottage folks do a lot of the innovating too Jason,which is then taken into account by the large companies who put it out in quantity.
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

Top
#91551 - 02/28/08 09:47 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: Earthling]
jasonlivy Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 654
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
cottage folks do a lot of the innovating too Jason,which is then taken into account by the large companies who put it out in quantity.
Your exactly right. The cottage industry is incredibly important to new innovation. I believe we are not only competing against the 'big' manufacturers (really pretty small when compared to other markets, electronics for instance), but we also compete directly with the ULAs, Henry Shires, etc. When Jet Boil hit the market (I consider them cottage when they first entered the outdoor market) you should have seen the buzz it created at the Cascade Designs booth at the Outdoor Retail Show. We pay strict attention to the cottage industry.

For me personally, I love it! I like to see people, who aren't statisfied with the current product selection, go out on there own truly believing they can do better (and some definitely do). This type of competition is what keeps things fresh and expands what folks believe is possible. For instance, I really believe the two best lightweight packs on the market are ULA and Granite Gear. I think Osprey, Gregory, Arcteryx, Marmot, etc. are putting out great stuff, but I don't think they compare, when weight is the issue, to ULA or Granite Gear. Granite Gear, compared to the big boys, are relatively small (not as small, definitely, as ULA). This is my own personal opinion based on experience with each one of these pack manufacturers. There are others out there that I haven't tried which may very well compare to ULA or Granite Gear. They are what make this industry so addicting <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...

Top
#91552 - 02/29/08 08:51 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: jasonlivy]
just_another_Joe Offline
member

Registered: 11/30/06
Posts: 117
My Chlorox bottle has 6% sodium hypochlorite as the only active ingredient. So I have some generic Viral Stop in the laundry room. One MSR product did not need too much R&D to get it to market.

Top
#91553 - 03/02/08 02:48 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: phat]
wildthing Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 984
Loc: Victoria, B.C.
Hey I'm lovin' my Pristine, the Canadian Cousin for Aqua Mira. Never been sick, never had a shred of problem waiting for 30 minutes to drink. But the guys I hiked with in Colorado protested to the nth that their filters were worth the extra 1lb and the heavy arm work. I spent the extra pound in my pack on good raingear and stout hiking shoes and a fifth for pain relief.

Me I'm just smilin' in the sun just like phat, waiting for them filter dogs to get their work done. Usually I treat water along the way and while they are pumping, I'm drinking my last .5l as folks that have pumps feel like they have to carry at least 2l of water too. Me, I hydrate to use my water along the way so I never carry too much. Mind you I live in watery British Columbia. Even so, try and mention to them that water is just around the corner and they don't hear you!! They gotta carry all that water after spending so much energy to pump it!
_________________________
Listen to the trees in the wind

Top
#91554 - 03/02/08 04:04 PM New Aqua Mira the bell ringer for safe water! [Re: phat]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Ha! Liked your story, phat. I'm definitely investing in some Aqua Mira or Pristine on the next hike. I was given filter/pump duties on a 7-member Mt. Robson hike a couple years ago, and on the trail I earned the name 'Waterwanker.'

So either I get those tablets, or I'm getting Anita Ward's '79 disco hit, Ring my Bell on my MP3 player while I pump, just like my friend at Texas Tech did in the Navy game. (Has anyone NOT seen THIS?)
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


Top
#91555 - 03/02/08 04:40 PM Re: New Aqua Mira the bell ringer for safe water! [Re: kevonionia]
EricKingston Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 272
Loc: Michigan
That clip made me snort..... Too funny.

Top
#91556 - 03/02/08 09:31 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: Earthling]
jasonklass Offline
member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 551
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I'm neither a fan of chemicls nor pumping so I just ordered one of these to try out: http://www.basegear.com/aquamira-frontier-pro-water-filter.html

Right now, I use an MSR Miniworks Ex but if this new Aquamira filter works out, I'll drop 12.2 oz. from my pack! We'll see...
_________________________
Gear Talk There's no such thing as having too many sporks!

Backpack Flyfishing Tight lines,light packs


Top
#91557 - 03/02/08 10:07 PM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: phat]
billk Offline
member

Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 1196
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Sounds like they forgot to put the intake hose in the water.

I'm a filterin' kinda guy, myself, when I do anything. It really only takes a few minutes (PUR Hiker...I mean, Katahdin). I've never done more than a gallon at once, but even that didn't take that long. I keep my pumping arm in shape by swinging it at my side while I walk <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Top
#91558 - 03/04/08 12:43 PM Re: New Aqua Mira ok by me [Re: Earthling]
strongone Offline
member

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 166
Loc: North Carolina
Having grown up swimming my summers in the Cowpasture River in Virginia, I can only think of the bugs I swallowed. So when people freak out over water purification, it makes me think back to the good old days of swimming in natures finest lakes and rivers.

Get over it!!!

I go with Aqua Mira always, Drop, Drop sit back and drink up. Manage ur water.

What you do when the batteries go dead? oh thats right carry extra weight!!

Filters and bottles get contaminated with water which will not be sanitized. With chemicals at least the water still has chemicals to sanitize outside rims. Ever met someone who's filter cracked or froze due to overnite low temps? Not a pretty sight bent over with cramps and squirts for two weeks.

A better life with chemicals. and lite weight!!!!!!! Course I'm the guy who uses Vodka to keep the water from freezing in the bottle.

Top
#91559 - 03/04/08 01:09 PM Re: New Aqua Mira ok by me [Re: strongone]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Course I'm the guy who uses Vodka to keep the water from freezing in the bottle.


Well, that explains it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#91560 - 03/07/08 07:19 PM Re: New Aqua Mira ok by me [Re: finallyME]
wildthing Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/02
Posts: 984
Loc: Victoria, B.C.
hic, explains what???
_________________________
Listen to the trees in the wind

Top
#91561 - 03/08/08 11:48 AM Re: New Aqua Mira [Re: jasonklass]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

That looks neat jason. I wanna know how it works out. It is certainly light enough. My concern using it would be that since it looks like it's a replacement bite valve, how's the flow through it, and
can I get water out of it without sucking. Basically I have three modes of water use:

1) sucking through the bite valve (ok this works)
2) dumping out water to boil (no problem, I don't even care about treating this..)
3) pouring out water into something that I'm *not* going to boil, but drink.

It's option 3 that I'm worried about being a problem with this critter. but please let us all know!
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
Browse my pictures


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Featured Photos
Spiderco Chaparral Pocketknife
David & Goliath
Also Testing
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 160 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Noodles, McCrary, DanyBacky, Rashy Willia, WanderBison
13240 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
Backpacking.net
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 

Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum