When first starting backpaking I bought quality bombproof gear. My first trip was 42lbs for a summer overnighter. I quickly learned that I was gonna have to lighten the load and started re-gearing. Three years later I was at 12lbs for the same trip and that included two qts water. Now at 50+ yrs my pack is getting heavier. Because of the aging process and things that limit daily milage I've decided to increase camp comfort, ie. WM's semi-retangular bags, down camp clothes, etc. Including 2lbs extra for a bigger pack I've still only added about 7lbs. Seven pounds can be a lot over 20 mile days but at 10 mile days it's worth it. And that's for winter trips in the Smokies (single digit nights). Three season trips will only add 2-3lbs. Though it's been an enjoyable learning experience I've learned that counting ounces is anile. Enjoy it folks!!!

Sometimes you just have to go in style Brother! That's what makes every trip unique, you bring what your need to be comfortable <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yep, everyone has their own "sweet spot" which is the perfect compromise between pack weight and comfort in camp.

Counting ounces can be challenging and fun but a person will (hopefully) soon lean where the point of diminishing returns is. Mine comes at a fair weather mimimum base weight of 10-12 pounds. I really have no desire to take it down to 5. At 50 I've been blessed with a healthy body so far and I see no need to save another 5 pounds.



That says it all!!!!!

I'm also older - 57. I've followed a very similar path over the last couple of years. I started with a cold-weather, gear and consumables, 4-night weight of about 25 pounds. I got that down to 20, but found the gear to be less simple to use and less comfortable. Oddly enough, the "less simple" bothered me most. With my original gear, using it was almost second nature. That let the gear fade into the background of the trip, leaving me free to enjoy the area I was walking through. With the ultralight stuff, it seemed like I spent a lot more time fussing with the gear, and less time enjoying the flow of the trip. I'm now back at my original weight (and using mostly the same gear, with the exception that I now wear trail shoes, my bag is now Western Mountaineering, and I now take down pants and jacket instead of fleece.)

It was fun, educational, eye-opening trip but I've learned that my "sweet spot" isn't ultralight.

I totally agree Glenn; too much focus on the gear and not the trip or destination, before, during and after <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> kind of ruins the trip for me. I don't want to worry about the uber $$ gear, I want to know what plant that is <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What type of rock I'm standing on <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />What trees are around me while I'm hiking an area <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> and what type of clouds those are floating by while I'm lying back enjoying the view <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Very true, but for some the gear is the destination. I'm partially guilty of that myself and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. We all have our own reasons for going out there.

Still, my gear remains a means to a goal. And yes, sometimes gear can become a barrier between a person and the environment he came to see. I saw an extreme case of that a few weeks ago in Yosemite. Giant motorhomes parked for days, their occupants never to be seen outside. Their evening "campfires" were the glow of televisions. Kind of sad, I thought.

I've seen that fairly frequently while car camping with the family. Part of me thinks "What's the point?" but another part of me says "To each their own."

I can always buy another piece of gear, but mainly because I like collecting stuff. The experience has to more with the environment than the gear though--that is as long as the gear does it's job of keeping me warm and dry.

To each their own -- until they run their generators all night and shatter the stillness you went out to enjoy. That's what started me backpacking instead of car camping; getting away from my fellow human beings, for whom I seem to have less and less use as I get older. Present company excepted, of course. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Very good point Hector. I do less and less car camping these days...generators, LOUD music, etc., can make for a poor experience. Give me the quiet murmur of a sparkling stream...

Hector

I was a heavy camper and I became a light camper not by buying so much new gear <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />as by no longer carrying what I never used. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I still have all of the warm comfortable stuff - DAM, WM bag etc, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />I just don't carry a lot of hardware anymore. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> In fact besides clothes and overnight stuff, about all I carry is a headlamp, stove, pan, cup, spoon, lighter. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> So I still in the 20 pound range with all the comforts. My $800 pack and tent help of course.

At point blank range a .44 with a solid brasslug can stop any generator. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> AND nobody comes out to find out why the electricity went out... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Hope they don't have elctric blankets... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Somehow I think you starting a shooting war will not help me get a good night's sleep. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Thanks, but I think I'll just walk a few miles away from both of you. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Jim.. a .44 ( I prefer a mag) makes more noise than the generator! Place generator wires in hand, walk away with wires still in hand. They never lock the gen set cabinets on those monsters. I politely asked a guy to turn his generator off in a Winnebago (it was 60 degrees outside, but his wife just had to have AC) because the muffler was rusted out and we could not sleep 5 campsites away. He got ugly and I walked away... with a couple of his gen set wires in hand. I still feel no guilt cause I gave them back to him as he was leaving the next morning. Thou shall not steal... permanently. You do what ya gotta do in this life to make peace... and quiet. Brum <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I actually enjoy camping more than backpacking, maybe because I have been camping with family and friends since I was a little girl. But I definitely have grown in my love for backpacking in the past few years and it is one of my favorite hobbies.

I agree with you and some of the others that posted here. I really like "camp time", so that's why I carry more weight. I typically like to hike in the morning through early afternoon, and then set up camp with a few hours of light left. That gives me time to get water, eat and lounge around. I also don't like skimping on my shelter or bedding.

I'm not overly fond of "camp time." So, I tend to stop along toward twilight (5 - 7 pm, depending on season), and often end up cooking in deep dusk or dark. After supper, maybe sit around for an hour or two, then head to bed for an early start the next day (on the trail by, say, 7 or 8 am.) That's lots of "trail" time - so do I do high mileage with my 25 pound load? No. I like to take a longish midmorning and midafternoon break, an hour or more for lunch, and have time to stop and enjoy a view or some other feature of the area. While I probably walk at a rate of perhaps 2 miles an hour, I probably only average a mile or mile and a half for the whole 10-12 hours between breaking camp in the morning and stopping in the evening.

To me, the ability to rest comfortably in camp is important. That begins with a thick sleeping pad (Prolite 4) and a chair kit. A comfortable chair lets me rest my back while I cook and watch the day depart. That means I'm relaxed when I go to bed, so I sleep better. I use a tent that allows me to enter and leave without a lot of twisting and turning, to sit up without scooting around, and to do some stargazing on a nice night - again, maintaining a relaxed attitude helps me sleep better. That nice, thick pad also means that I sleep more comfortably. All of this means I wake up well-rested, and ready to go for another day. (If you read the trip reports of some - not all - "bleeding-edge" ultralighters, you'll notice that they often mention fatigue setting in after a few days of hiking big miles and sleeping poorly.)

And, I enjoy a reasonable comfort level during the day: a pack that isn't unbearably heavy, a chair kit at those long breaks and lunch, and a tent that lets me pitch it fly-only for a lunchtime shelter in the rain. I also enjoy being able to drink without waiting, thus I carry a water filter.

All in all, I find that a slow pace and a little comfort makes backpacking a very enjoyable experience. And, I find that my backpacking gear is equally well-suited for simple, comfortable car-camping when I choose to do that - making that experience more enjoyable, too.

I'm right there with you Glenn. The older I get the easier the trail gets <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> or I should say, more comfortable <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> less miles like you, but greater enjoyment of those miles, instead of grinding my joints into dust daily. See you along the trail....

If I'm by myself (dog doesn't count), camp time might not be very interesting. But it's hard for me to pass up the perfect camp site at 4pm, so unless I know somethings better down the trail, I'll settle in. Clean up a bit, eat, have a cup of coffee, maybe read some.

I don't set any speed records anymore, and I think it is perfectly acceptable to take a noon-time nap.

I spoke with a guy at REI who had done the PCT. He told me that it ruined him for hiking. All he could think about was getting those miles done, so much so that he didn't sleep some nights but kept on walking. Didn't sound like much fun to me.

Miles for the sake of miles isn't my idea of fun, either.

I wasn't intending to knock an early stop - guess I just needed to talk. I do sometimes stop early, if I'm with a group that wants to stop. Of course, a group offers the additional benefit of conversation, games, etc., that I don't have when walking alone or with one like-minded friend. Both are enjoyable, in different ways.

In the end, that's what it's all about: building, as Colin Fletcher put it, your own personal warm, round pumpkin that's waiting on the shelf for you to take it down. And perfect campsites are certainly a valid part of that pumpkin.

Yeah, I tend to hammer out mileage when I am actually hiking. So I typically only take 1 long break for lunch during the day, and then a few short stops for snacks and views. I like the camp time so that I can get all setup and situated before dark. I particularly do not like to do the following after dark: set up my tent, filter water or cook. It might sound wierd, but I also am more comfortable in an area when I have time to set up and then survey the surrounding area in the daylight just to get familar with it.

Not weird at all. Downright sensible, I'd say.

On the other hand, it's sometimes fun to pull into a campsite at night and then wake up to stunning surroundings or maybe even a stunning view.

I once set up camp (in an official campsite) in foggy and pitch black night, thinking wouah, lots of space...in the glorious morning light I discovered the tent stood proudly on the only "keep off the grass" area, the vast lawn in front of the reception building. It was such a nice place... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I do not like setting up camp, cooking and doing dishes in the dark and avoid it if possible. I like to get to camp, relax and read.

I don’t mind setting up camp at dark. This happens a lot in my 4th season backpacking; the days are too short to get good mileage and thus we go into the night. And on a moonless, cloudless night, it’s quite awesome.
-Barry

I have been on trips feeling similiar to the guy at REI...now that I look back, I find that it was mostly in part to a few key discrepencies... my pack was a bit on the heavy side...foot gear wasnt working out...put myself on a time restraint...that kinda story is sad to hear, especially when you'd think that after doing the PCT it would make you more of a hiker.

I thought at first that I could make a checklist for backpacking and use it all the time, but I realize that is not the case. I agree that every trip is unique and you should adjust the contents and weight of your pack accordingly.

I still think it is good to count ounces (or grams even), so you know where the weight is coming from, but then you can make rational choices from there.

I backpack so I can camp so I can fish. We own and use our motorhome too. I absolutely hate the "noise " from generators. I rarely use mine and if I do it is for the shortest time needed for the task. I usually pack in to a base camp and then day hike to different areas to fish or explore. I carry food,stove,cooking gear, and other emergency stuff while doing so. We leave camp in the morning and return in the evening(sometimes later <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. When I was younger, I didn't mind forgoing comfort but as I have gotten older, I appreciate the little creature comforts. Also I probably wouldn't have the company of my lovely wife if not for the sleeping pad or tent. Another plus for getting older is you learn what works for you and what you can leave behind to lighten your load and lengthen your trip. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My 'progress' has been in the other direction. Most of my early backpacking included pack weights in the mid-30s. Even at that weight I usually was sharing items with a trail partner and, for many years, my dog carried our nine-pound tent.

Now, I've been enamored of ultralight. Good thing too, 'cause my trail partner dropped out of backpacking and my current pup doesn't backpack either. While it's not considered 'ultralight,' my 15lb pack yields camps that are more comfortable and I eat better than I did before.

I think the key to light/ultralight backpacking is that you don't give up anything...most especially comfort.

FB

I agree with you on that Earthling. I don't ever even think about my gear once I hit the trail. I know that it is right and what I need for that trip and I do not worry at all about it. I just want to enjoy the surroundings when am in the wilderness not worry about my gear. I place all my concentration on my gear when I am at home and before I leave and after that it's over until I get home. Then if there are adjustments that need to be made I make them then so that I don't have to worry when I am on the trail on in the wilderness. Reading you talk about looking up in the sky and wondering what type of cloud is passing over head really hit home for me. I have done that so many times that I couldn't count them...Hope that helps....Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That .44 can also get you locked up in a heart beat when used in that matter. I know you were only kidding ( I hope any way) but I agree here. That is one good reason to get out into the wilderness, to get away from the noises that you are accustomed to hearing all the time in civilization. Some times the noises that every one around me seem to take for granted just drives me crazy. Well not crazy but it does "drive" me away from the city life. I don't really live in a large city but there is still enough noise here that it makes me want to get away on a regular basis...Hope that helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I wonder what would have happened if that guy decided that he didn't like the way that your tent set-up looked and decided to tear it down. That's about the same thing that you did to him pulling out his wires...If you really did it any way...sabre11004... Let's hike in peace if we can... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hector....I am totally with you on that one....sabre11004 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sounds about right: obsess about gear before the trip, so you don't have to think about it during the trip. That's pretty much where I ended up, finally.

As far as the lying-back-looking-at-clouds thing, I've tried it - but it suddenly gets very dark, and when I re-open my eyes, someone has moved the sun further west...

Earthling, I have to say that I am with you on that too.. I go into the wilderness to enjoy the surroundings, not to worry about how much I spent on that U.L. gear or how much weight I am carrying. I just want to enjoy the environment that I am in at any given time. Boy, what you said about wanting to know what type of cloud that is floating over you while you were just lying around enjoying the scenery really hit home with me. I have done that so many times that it just seems second nature to me. Once I take that first step, I don't worry about any thing else except for my surroundings. If there are adjustments to be made the have to get made at home because once on the trail, the worrying about it is over...Hope that helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Eugene, I agree wholeheartedly with that, but just don't do it while driving. When I was 30, I was driving my beat-up, red '72 Chevy pick-up over to a friend's house and there was a spectacular sunset (with clouds) out the back window. I was turned around watching it and looked forward, only to realize I'd run an Irving (suburb of Dallas) policeman off the road in his squad car. Got pulled over and my explanation turned into mumbling. I got the ticket, and only after I appeared at traffic court did I realize just how steep it was. What was the ole Joni Mitchell song ? "I've looked at clouds from both sides now" -- I just don't do it anymore while driving . . .

Yes, I really did it anyway. You are lacking in logic here. Intentional and rude noise pollution versus taste in tent appearance are totally different issues. And to answer your question, I would have kicked his teeth in. I was young and mean back then. Not as young anymore, but some things never change... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Brum

Bum
Hi Dude, haven't heard from you in a while. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Goodness gracias <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> not PC? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />