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#90391 - 02/17/08 07:19 AM Mountain lions
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I was listening to the news yesterday and there is evidence that mountain lions are rapidly gaining in numbers and moving into areas that have not had them before. Arkansas etc. Has anyone had experience with them and what is their nature as far as human contact?

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#90392 - 02/17/08 07:57 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Not a problem. Cougars prey on deer, which are doing quite well. My understanding is that mountain lions were distributed across the continent, so, in a sense, they are just expanding back into their homeland.

Small children are most at risk. If you encounter one, make yourself look big (put your child up on your shoulders), make noise, see kitty go away.

I started hiking in cougar country, have seen their tracks covering my tracks, have found their kills, but have not had an encounter in fifty years. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#90393 - 02/17/08 08:11 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
It's not that they are in places they haven't been before...it's that they're returning to areas previously inhabited. And folks are moving into the cougars' habitiat which brings about more meetings between the two. Add to the mix reduced hunting pressure during the past decades and drought-induced movement by the animals and we end up with an increased population and an expanded range leading to more encounters.

Still, the cats are probably the least seen of the predators. We have/had one in the neighborhood this Fall. It took down three deer, one about 200 yards from my living room window, but all anyone has seen is tracks. About ten years ago, one was seen every Spring, just 'passing through' the yard of one of my neighbors but I have yet to spot my first lion.

The point being...some precautions are wise...e.g., no loose running pets...but, for the most part, the cougars exist unnoticed and unseen. Still, there are always stories. A few years ago, a cougar and her kittens were found under a flatbed in a trailer rental lot just blocks from the center of Missoula.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#90394 - 02/17/08 08:17 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
hikerduane Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2123
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Couple experiences I have had, they are curious. First encounter, out cutting firewood with my dog. I had finished cutting, had put my saw away and was walking out a little further to scout more trees when I saw the cat, about 100' or less away. After a few seconds, my dog realized something was out there, but with the grass higher than he could see over all he could do was sniff. I took a few steps forward then stopped, thinking, there could be more and nervously looked around. My dog took off about then and I didn't hear or see him leave. I called and he came back in a few minutes. Funny, only 6 months later then, I was out on a earyl season Mt. bike trip with a friend and we had a young cat catch a goose and eat it a little over a 100' from where we were camped. He thought it was a bobcat, I took a look and told him no, that is a lion. It stuck around for a bit until I took a second look about 30 minutes later then it walked away. All the years I have been out and about and I have two sitings within six months. In the Caribou Wilderness which is about an hour north of where I live in N. Calif., I have seen sign of cats but no cats.

Forgot, another siting, I was going to work real early one morning and about a mile from where I live, I saw a large cat, over 100 lbs. cross the road ahead of me, going down someones driveway. A neighbor was out mt bike riding less than half a mile from where we live, had a lion chase a deer across the road ahead of him.


Edited by hikerduane (02/17/08 08:20 AM)

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#90395 - 02/17/08 10:58 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3569
Loc: Texas
Mountain lions are some of the most beautiful things on earth. There have been "sightings" south of Dallas along Ten Mile Creek, which runs by my house. I have my doubts but our animal control officers say it's so. I've only seen bobcats around here, which are also wonderful things. I don't see the lions as a problem...in fact, consider yourself blessed if you EVER get to see one in the wild. They move like ghosts.
Hiking Big Bend for 30 years yielded one distant sighting, with over two dozen in the park now. As long as there is natural prey around, deer etc., there should be no threat to humans. Small children and slow pets might be a target someday if a lion becomes habituated to city life. There have been 'attacks' of children and adults in Big Bend, with no deaths or serious injuries of which I'm aware. It was more like "human surprised and startled big cat" if one reads the reports.
_________________________
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#90396 - 02/17/08 11:37 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
what is their nature as far as human contact?

Unlike tigers, North American mountain lions are not disposed to become man-eaters. They prey almost exclusively on deer and there are plenty of deer for them to prey on.

Lion attacks on humans are rare. Heck, even just sightings of the big cats by humans are rare; attacks are almost non-exixtant. Small children left unattended are most at risk, just because they are such easy prey. This happens once in a blue moon, or even less often than that.

When adults are attacked it is very frequently by juvenile cats who are not accomplished hunters, yet. Adults who are attacked usually are successful at fighting off the attack, although not until the cat has inflicted some severe damage. The victims usually survive.

If you see a mountain lion and feel threatened, the advice by experts is to stand up, wave your arms, look big and aggressive, and yell at it. Grab a rock or a club if you can. Act mean and fearless. This works in your favor 99.9% of the time.

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#90397 - 02/17/08 12:01 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Blue moons occur every 2-3 years, mountain lion attacks occur about 1-2 per year.

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#90398 - 02/17/08 12:20 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Dryer]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I've seen bobcats inside the city limits here in So Cal. So far, none have registered to vote...

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#90399 - 02/17/08 12:41 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
Thank you, Paddy. That stat gives a pretty clear picture of the relative danger of an attack from a mtn lion. It shows such an attack is much less likely than being hit by lightning.

Clarification: I would presume those 1-2 attacks per year is the total of all mtn lion attacks. However, because of the context of my "blue moon" comment, where I was referring to attacks on children, does that 1-2 per year number only refer to attacks on children?

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#90400 - 02/17/08 01:01 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
I believe the 1-2 per year is the number of attacks on humans in California. Most of the websites are old, so they only give data for the period 1985-1995. I didn't find data for all of North America vs just CA, either. But I didn't look very hard.

One thing is certain, the population of mountain lions is growing and especially in areas that put them in contact with humans. So pure statistics would lead to the expectation that attacks will increase.

I recall hearing once that more people in the US are killed on average than any other natural phenomena. And half of them are on the golf course...

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#90401 - 02/17/08 01:21 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
pure statistics would lead to the expectation that attacks will increase.

Unless my math understanding is failing me, I would expect that in order to increase a rate of 1-2 per year, to a predictable 3 per year, then the rate of human-mtn lion interactions would need to increase by between 50% to 100%. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

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#90402 - 02/17/08 04:58 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
The probability of an "interaction" is proportional to the populations of both mountain lions and humans in a given area. Since the mountain lion population is presently undergoing rapid growth, interactions should increase (proportional to the increase in lion population).

Simply put, if the population of humans remains constant and the population of lions doubles, I would expect the number of incidents to also double.

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#90403 - 02/17/08 06:10 PM Re: Mountain lions - Kitty Kitty??? [Re: oldranger]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
OldRanger wrote:
Quote:
Not a problem. If you encounter one, make yourself look big (put your child up on your shoulders), make noise, see kitty go away.


MEOW! That is one big Kitty! Here's some info that is right on topic. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15587329/

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mountain+lion+attacked+man&btnG=Google+Search


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Brum
_________________________



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#90404 - 02/17/08 07:22 PM Re: Mountain lions - Kitty Kitty??? [Re: Brumfield]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Yes, this made national news, because it was spectacular and unusual, hence, newsworthy. In the months since this was reported, how many have come to grief from more mundane mechanisms like falls, drowning, and just generally being unprepared for conditions encountered? (or for that matter, auto accidents to and from the trailhead?)

Humans obsess about the spectacular and overlook the "normal" day to day hazards. We think nothing of getting in our cars and going for a drive, but the automobile accident rate is roughly similar to that suffered by rock climbers on lead (my source for this is a PBS program aired about fifteen years ago - I doubt the situation has changed much). Many people refuse to fly commercial planes because of safety concerns, preferring to drive, a act which is much more hazardous.

I just returned from a local day hike where I would not have been the least surprised to see a mountain lion. Did not see anything. The muddy washouts on the trail, and the occasionally slimy footing presented the greater hazard. For that matter, the chances of me suffering a coronary are probably greater than those of an animal attack.

I believe there is a case on record of a woman injured by a falling meteorite in her own house. Should we install armor plating on our roofs?

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#90405 - 02/17/08 09:23 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
While I agree that mountain lion populations are most certainly increasing, I think that a doubling of the mountain lion population would be a fairly unusual event. Human populations have been climbing faster in the past century than at any time in human history, but doublings of human population still take decades to occur.

However, given a doubling of mountain lion population in CA, one would still be looking at 3-4 attacks per year, still a pretty negligible number for a human population of 37 million.

I am willing to state, though, that not one of those 3 or 4 people would be happy about their fate. It would be terrifying and horrific for them. Yet, they are still quite likely to survive the experience and be able to tell their tale.

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#90406 - 02/18/08 08:06 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I have never seen one, but my brother walked up on one while hunting deer this last fall. He didn't have a rifle (his friend was the one with the tag, and hence the rifle, he was helping out and enjoying the walk in the woods), but he did have a small handgun. He fired a warning shot, and the cat ran off. He is still a little shaken from seeing such a big cat up so close. He laughed at me when I brought bear spray on our last trip (last fall), now he claims he won't go without a gun, not for bears but for lions.

From what I have read and seen, actually seeing a cat is rare, they are very good at not being seen.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#90407 - 02/18/08 08:28 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
While I agree that mountain lion populations are most certainly increasing, I think that a doubling of the mountain lion population would be a fairly unusual event. Human populations have been climbing faster in the past century than at any time in human history, but doublings of human population still take decades to occur.

However, given a doubling of mountain lion population in CA, one would still be looking at 3-4 attacks per year, still a pretty negligible number for a human population of 37 million.

I am willing to state, though, that not one of those 3 or 4 people would be happy about their fate. It would be terrifying and horrific for them. Yet, they are still quite likely to survive the experience and be able to tell their tale.


Since the 1970's, California's lion population has increased by about a factor of 10.

The frequency of lion attacks compared to other hazards is low, but that does not change the statistics. As the lion and human populations continue to increase in areas where the species will mingle, the frequency of attacks will likewise increase.

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#90408 - 02/18/08 09:59 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
As the lion and human populations continue to increase in areas where the species will mingle, the frequency of attacks will likewise increase.

That would seem to be an unavoidable conclusion. I am only concerned that this calmly-stated, utterly factual statement may inspire fears that vastly over-perceive the danger.

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#90409 - 02/18/08 02:58 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
Trailrunner Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 1835
Loc: Los Angeles
I run to work in a known mountain lion habitat. I even had the rare privilege of seeing one once although I have seen bobcats much more often.

When coworkers ask me if I feel safe back in those canyons I tell them I feel much more safe there than in my car on the highway leading to work. I'm sure statistics would back me up, even recent statistics.

I do take precautions. A mountain lion's usual M.O. is to attack from behind or above so I avoid running directly below hillsides and I even look behind occasionally. Since I'm usually commuting in the dark I have also considered wearing a rear facing light to confuse them.

Just FYI if you look around there are lots of TLB mountain lion threads with widely varying opinions.

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#90410 - 02/18/08 07:08 PM Re: Mountain lions - Kitty Kitty??? [Re: oldranger]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I would not install a steel plate roof on my home because of a meteor hitting somewhere on the planet. But the fact remains that mountain lions are moving back into areas that have not seen them. ( maybe at least not in my lifetime).
I will continue to pack protection and will add bear spray to my personal arsenal.
I value all animals and consider all living creatures beautiful and worth preserving. But if it's me or them or I feel eminent threat to me or mine, I will react.
I appreaciate all the good info, opinions and facts on this subject and have come to the conclusion that humans pose a greater danger in the wide open spaces than animals.
Be safe out there and cause no harm...............if at all possible.

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#90411 - 02/18/08 09:11 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
aimless,
While cougar numbers have increased in Oregon, we have things in place, like cougar HUNTING if there are more than a certain number of cougar "encounters" per year.

In California cougars are protected and they need a lot of land and since they breed like cats - they will quickly over fill any amount of land unless there is hunting. Nobody did the Cal-Cougars a favor by banning hunting.

In Oregon we can get "predation tags" and other legal right to shoot cougars that come onto our land and kill animals or sit on the front porch.

I live in cougar country. I drag my garbage can 500 feet down a dirt road through a forest to put it out Monday nights, then I walk back without the big bangy thing. Sometimes it takes just abit of belief in myself. Like skiing in to camp at midnight up the mountain where it definitely IS cougar country and they are attracked to lights, like headlights, but its hard to imagine a cougar attacking a skier with a big pack - now you guys with little packs may be at risk... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#90412 - 02/19/08 12:30 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Jimshaw]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Well, don't take this personally Jim, but I don't think you're in any danger of a Cougar attack any time soon, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be targeted either.

I do recall vividly explaining to a 19 year old kid we were taking hiking about the possibility of Cougar attack, and explaining to him that he had to be extra careful around shopping malls and grocery stores, that they stalk young meat there....

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Any fool can be uncomfortable...
My 3 season gear list
Winter list.
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#90413 - 02/19/08 06:48 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Jimshaw]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Potential encounters with any wildlife, and their further habituation, might be reduced if the garbage was set out the morning of pickup rather than left to sit throughout the night. Ordinances mandating such are common here in government-loving Montana. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Of course, problems have to develop before the ordinances are enforced in my home area but you get the point. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Despite the seeming contradiction, cougars do not breed like 'cats'. Females usually don't litter until they are into their third year and, after that, often only once every other year. While litters can be up to six kittens, the norm is two to three.

As for encounters, habitat and hunting -- some think increased conflicts are due to the skewed population of very young cougars caused by excessive hunting. Obviously this is location/cougar-population dependent and varies with each area. But one thing is certain, unless the population is hunted to below sustainability, almost any species will expand its numbers to fill an empty, but otherwise (more) suitable habitat. The varmint control programs against the coyote is a case in point. On the other hand, habitat change from drought, fire, human-encroachment, etc., not only can cause the range of a species to seemingly expand but also cause an increase in encounters.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#90414 - 02/19/08 06:52 AM Re: Mountain lions - Kitty Kitty??? [Re: chaz]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Quote:
...I appreaciate all the good info, opinions and facts on this subject and have come to the conclusion that humans pose a greater danger in the wide open spaces than animals. Be safe out there and cause no harm...............if at all possible.


Nicely said.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#90415 - 02/19/08 08:37 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Fiddleback]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Fiddleback
fiddleback is nice stuff are you a woodworker? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway here in Bend we have no Bears and our giant Raccoons don't seem to be interested in garbage cans, and lions could care less about garbage. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Around here everybody puts the garbage out the night before. The lions eat deer and elk up on the mountain where there are plenty.

I have had 2 mountain lion encounters. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />The first was simply a case of me being more stealthful than him and when he realized I was watching him he was gone in about 2 bounds. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The second lion was within 20 feet (at night) and definitely wanting to attack my wife and I , <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />but I Jumped at him screaming and waving my arms (in the moonlight). he he - you should have seen the spinning legs as he jumped up and ran,. it was like something out of a cartoon - all legs and elbows, and then about 5 seconds later I see him several hundred yards away going about 60 mph. By the time my wife wakes up and says "what was that" it as over. I said "Oh it was a mountain lion but hes in the next county by now go back to sleep" so she did.

Yeah though I walk through the Valley of Death I fear no evil cause I'm the meanest Ogre in the Valley - he he.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#90416 - 02/19/08 09:48 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Jimshaw]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
Too cool...still waiting for my first cougar. The neighborhood concensus is that both the cougar that passed through every spring some years ago and the one harvesting whitetail this Fall were young 'uns. But none of us have seen this current one and I never got to see the other.

I'm aware of the fiddleback pattern of certain woods but, me a woodworker? Hardly! The only failure warning notice I ever got was in junior high shop. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> The trail name refers to the brown recluse spider,.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#90417 - 02/19/08 11:43 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Jimshaw]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Woodworking might be a fun thread for the off topic forum. My daddy had me using a table saw as soon as I was tall enough to see over it...

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#90418 - 02/19/08 01:54 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: phat]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:

Well, don't take this personally Jim, but I don't think you're in any danger of a Cougar attack any time soon, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be targeted either.

I do recall vividly explaining to a 19 year old kid we were taking hiking about the possibility of Cougar attack, and explaining to him that he had to be extra careful around shopping malls and grocery stores, that they stalk young meat there....

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Phat, I hope you explained to him that those would be older cougars without kittens <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90419 - 02/24/08 10:34 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
PaddyCrow wrote:
Quote:
Woodworking might be a fun thread for the off topic forum. My daddy had me using a table saw as soon as I was tall enough to see over it...


Oh, cool, Paddy! Jesus was a carpenter too! Brum <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________



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#90420 - 02/24/08 10:53 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Brumfield]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
Oh, cool, Paddy! Jesus was a carpenter too!


Was that before or after he played outfield for the Giants?

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#90421 - 02/24/08 11:14 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
jimii3 Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 7
1 encounter here. Last year, early June in the Winds. My friend and I were fishing and as a passed a small snow field right next to the lake, I noticed tracks of some sort and looked up and the cat was running up the mountain. I yelled for my friend and we both watched as he stopped and watched us from a ledge a couple hundred feet above us.

It freaked us both out and is one of the reasons I don't know if I could solo hike in Winds. I was looking back way too much the rest of the trip. Maybe the wolf encounter on the same trip had something to do with it also. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

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#90422 - 02/24/08 05:08 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Quote:
Oh, cool, Paddy! Jesus was a carpenter too!


Was that before or after he played outfield for the Giants?


That was after He made the outfield. Brum
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#90423 - 02/24/08 05:43 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Brumfield]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
His older brothers Matty and Felipe were better hitters than he was.

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#90424 - 02/25/08 07:13 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
chuck Offline
member

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 83
I used to hike a lot in North GA and several years ago was told by a wildlife ranger that another ranger saw one dragging a deer across a dirt road in Northeast GA by Rabun Gap.

Aside from wild boar and occasional bear never saw one or signs of one myself.

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#90425 - 02/26/08 05:33 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Paddy Crow, I sure would like to see you take your arguement off the threads. If you have something to say to Barry/Brum, pm the guy and enjoy a civil exchange; do not be so petty to keep challenging every post the man makes <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I've seen quite a few mountain lions and they are awe inspiring. Just remember not to stare too long as your feet are already in motion <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> actually, NEVER run from any predator be it mountain lion, bear, or wolf; it tells them you are just like their favorite prey, deer. Deer flee at the sight of a predator, so if you stand and make yourself known as a human, chances are good the animal will turn tail. You then leave the area carefully and methodically watching your back as well as your front <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90426 - 02/26/08 06:24 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Earthling]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
Paddy Crow, I sure would like to see you take your arguement off the threads. If you have something to say to Barry/Brum, pm the guy and enjoy a civil exchange; do not be so petty to keep challenging every post the man makes <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


Not sure if you're being serious, half serious, or not at all. The emoticon makes me think not at all. I know I was just goofing around (and didn't initiate the exchange anyways).

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#90427 - 02/26/08 06:47 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> go figure, me serious <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Ok, that's enough for me to go take my meds Paddy thanks for reminding me it was time <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90428 - 02/26/08 06:59 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Earthling]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're in flame mode or sarcasm mode.

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#90429 - 02/26/08 07:02 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
99% sarcasm smidgen of flame for outbursts due to being off meds <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> when you see this> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> sign you know they're kickin' in <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90430 - 02/29/08 12:46 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Paddy_Crow]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether you're in flame mode or sarcasm mode.


I agree. Just for everyone else reading any of my posts in the future. If you think I am in flame mode, I am really in sarcasm mode. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#90431 - 03/02/08 08:01 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
coyotemaster Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 294
Loc: Arizona
Just a little Arizona Mt. Lion info.
web page

FWIW - although not noted on the AZGFD website, an undisturbed Mt. Lion has been observed making a measured 12ft vertical jump, from a dead stop. I find that to be impressive.

Also good to do during an encounter, point your finger and look down your arm at a Mt. Lion. They understand what you are doing and don't like it. Be intimidating. Lean into it some.

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#90432 - 03/03/08 10:56 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: coyotemaster]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Just a little Arizona Mt. Lion info.

Also good to do during an encounter, point your finger and look down your arm at a Mt. Lion. They understand what you are doing and don't like it. Be intimidating. Lean into it some.


Brum wrote:

Yes, that will save them having to reach out quite as far to bite you. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My innate reflex of self-preservation is to tuck in all extremities when facing something that bites, then run. Brum

_________________________



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#90433 - 03/03/08 07:59 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Brumfield]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Run and they will chase you. It's that fight of flight reflex. Unless the cat has a firearm I say chase him and if you catch it, beat into submission. Then make a pet of it or train it to hunt or to protect you from the bandito's. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
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#90434 - 03/04/08 10:18 AM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: chaz]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Chaz wrote;
Quote:
Run and they will chase you. It's that fight of flight reflex. Unless the cat has a firearm I say chase him and if you catch it, beat into submission. Then make a pet of it or train it to hunt or to protect you from the bandito's. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />


Brumfield wrote:
I see you've been scoring and over using the stuff they grow down here. Wish I could live and survive in a fantasy world like that. Come to think of it, I did, back in the sixties. Probably was the same stuff being grown by the same people today. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Brum



Go ahead, no body's listening... make the bike sounds for yourself! Hee haaa!
_________________________



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#90435 - 03/04/08 10:37 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
Unless the cat has a firearm

I hear that in Texas most of them are carrying, so the hikers need to double up in order to have superior firepower. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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#90436 - 03/04/08 07:49 PM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: Brumfield]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I would call that part of the "lightweight zone" Life can't always be HEAVY man.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#90437 - 03/04/08 08:58 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
aimless <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Its just funny to hear someone called aimless talking about firepower. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Obviosly full auto is the only way to go, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> or maybe triple bursts... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I bet a lion would run from a paint ball gun, especially a nice fast full auto one. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Heck they run from flashlights too... generally.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#90438 - 03/05/08 12:34 PM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: chaz]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Chaz wrote:
Quote:
I would call that part of the "lightweight zone" Life can't always be HEAVY man.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


You were in SF back in 66, and we didn't run into each other? Now that's heavy! Do you remember the house Joplin lived in on the corner of Lyon and Oak streets? It's still there, man... and when Chocolate George crashed his bike on Haight Street runnin from the cops? What a trip... made himself into a Chevy hood ornament right there in front of everybody!
Oh, sorry, wrong forum...

"Yeah, I can tell you're a real swinger by your white shoes, man! Janice Joplin

Ergoline... err.. Brum

_________________________



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#90439 - 03/05/08 07:08 PM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: Brumfield]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I was a little young for SF in those days. Read about it in the papers. I was a paper boy then. But as far a Janis. I remember hearing about her trashing a friend of mines, mothers new table cloth, She put out a cig on it. She was not invited back. Guess they didn't dig the free way J.J was viewing her world.
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#90440 - 03/05/08 08:13 PM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: chaz]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Chaz wrote:
Quote:
I was a little young for SF in those days. Read about it in the papers. I was a paper boy then. But as far a Janis. I remember hearing about her trashing a friend of mines, mothers new table cloth, She put out a cig on it. She was not invited back. Guess they didn't dig the free way J.J was viewing her world.


Brumfield wrote:
Sorry, I'm having trouble following you here... You read about it when you were a baby boy? How far did Janis live from you? How many mothers did your friend have? That is really far out! I only had one mother! As for "mines", J.L.J could be pretty explosive when doing Southern Comfort and Speedball, but she didn't blow her mind till she went Full Tilt and took the white horse home.

Janis Joplin was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on January 12, 1995. In 2005 she was honored with a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award. Port Arthur now realizes what they missed. A little late, but they even have a statue of her. Brum

PS: Who was the person (s) that got their tablecloth trashed?
_________________________



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#90441 - 03/06/08 02:37 PM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: Brumfield]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I lived in Idaho when the flower people were in SF. Dig?
Then moved back to mempho in the 70's and had a friend who's dad owned STAX records. Well,Janis came for a visit and she was in prime form when she pulled the cig stunt on the table cloth.
Don't be confused or stressed out man, it's all water under the bridge now. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#90442 - 03/06/08 03:40 PM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: chaz]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...

Chaz wrote:
"Don't be confused or stressed out man,"

Brumfield wrote:
I was just kidding you about your lack of punctuation... sarcasm used in jest, you know.


Chaz wrote:
"it's all water under the bridge now".

Brumfield wrote:
That's what Teddy told Paul Markham when he walked in still wet from Poucha Pond.

You must have been thinking about Mary Jo, not Janis. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Brum
_________________________



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#90443 - 03/08/08 07:31 AM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: Brumfield]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I could use a spell check and a calculator everywhere I go. I should carry a thesauras, a dictionary and every other device that keeps me goin in a strait line. My laptop,GPS,MP3 batteries fail when I get in the woods. I then have a pack full of dead electronics, I'm then lost with no entertainment and nothing to do. I should add a battery charger Huh. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Enjoy your next trip...

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#90444 - 03/08/08 10:33 AM Re: Mountain lions - Smokin! [Re: chaz]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Chaz wrote:
Quote:
I could use a spell check and a calculator everywhere I go. I should carry a thesauras, a dictionary and every other device that keeps me goin in a strait line. My laptop,GPS,MP3 batteries fail when I get in the woods. I then have a pack full of dead electronics, I'm then lost with no entertainment and nothing to do. I should add a battery charger Huh. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Brumfield wrote:
No need to carry all that stuff around. It's all in our head from learning it in school anyway. I can't relate to needing electronic entertainment in the woods. There really is a Song of the Wild, but I can't hear it with an MP3 playing in my head. My electronics are limited to cameras, lighting, and for news, a small shortwave radio. I'm considering a folding 12 watt solar charger for the rechargeable batteries I use on extended dive and caving trips, but there are some new lithium power packs that are more portable and work more quickly to recharge batteries, might go that route instead.

Oh, and forget the straight line! Try not to pre plan every step too far in advance, leave room to, on merely a whim, just vamoose and wander aimlessly, helps to realize the freedom we all seek after. And it's amazing what we can find when we get off-trail and break out of our own self imposed ruts. Taking a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome is emotionally and spiritually fulfilling, and from experience, I've found it's better to have been and seen than to spend all the rest of my days wondering what was beyond the next mountain or canyon just off the straight line or mapped out trail. Venturing into the unknown with the intent of collecting experiential memories brings much more joy than collecting "friends" on FaceBook or MyFace. (But do bring a map and compass) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Brum
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#90445 - 03/10/08 04:18 PM Re: Mountain lions - Chargin [Re: Brumfield]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
The only electronics I will carry into the woods will be an MP3 player that I may or may not listen to. I will use a compass and map for navigation. None need chargers and if the Mp3 player fails well, Oh well! The only batteries I'll use is AAA for my headlight and 2 AA's for my mini mag. I'll carry one set of spares for each and probably won't need those.

Just wanna get out there, Man.

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#90446 - 03/19/08 10:01 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
judach Offline
member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California, USA
hoorah.

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#90447 - 03/19/08 10:26 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: jimii3]
judach Offline
member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California, USA
All I know is, they'd have to fight alot harder to eat me than it's probably worth. If I have a big cat charging at me, and I know fighting it is inevitable, I'm going down in a blaze of glory baby! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> I'm also 6'3'' 300 lbs... I'm not too scared by mountain lions. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#90448 - 03/19/08 11:09 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
demo Offline
member

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 221
Loc: Arkansan displaced in the PNW
I've had no direct experience, but growing up in the Ozarks, I heard them "screaming" on more than a few occasions -- their howls are quite distinctive. I always just headed the other way as quietly as possible.
_________________________
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#90449 - 03/20/08 12:59 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: judach]
Narf Offline
member

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 76
Loc: Missouri
Well i believe mountain lions have been known to take down some north american elk, moose, and bighorn sheep. You'd make a nice meal for the litter.

have fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7MuFDVEU...untain-lion.htm


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#90450 - 03/20/08 05:53 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Narf]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
It's getting close to the beginning of April...I just want to make sure y'all understand that the above photograph is, as they say, 'not to scale.' <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Our cougar is back...swiped a horse about three weeks ago and dropped a white tail just yards from a neighbor's house. Yet to be seen, though...

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#90451 - 03/20/08 11:46 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Fiddleback]
6brnorma Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 252
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
It's getting close to the beginning of April...I just want to make sure y'all understand that the above photograph is, as they say, 'not to scale.' <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />



For sure FB.....Photoshop regards,
6br

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#90452 - 03/20/08 02:37 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee


An encounter with a Mountain Lion is a very different encounter that with say a bear or a Moose or something of that nature. When you are approached by a Mountain Lion he has one thing on his mind. EATING YOU !!!!! They do not play and if you are all of a sudden in the presence of one, the best thing that you can do is remove yourself from that area as quickly and as inconspicuously as possible. And be ready to defend yourself because they will chase you and unless you have a way of defending yourself, you may have a problem..That's one of the biggest reasons that I carry a hand gun because in certain situations that could be your only chance to survive. If a Mountain Lion gets a hold of you, you won't survive unless you have help. A solo hiker wouldn't stand a chance. Hope that helps...Happy Trekking....sabre11004...


The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#90453 - 03/20/08 04:43 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee

Yes that is true, but as was said at the beginning of this post, they are rapidly increasing in numbers and that means that the current prey population that supports them now will not support then if they continue to increase in numbers like they are..The current prey population will only decrease as the mountain lion population increases... I don't really think that they will eat all the deer however when the deer population goes down don't think that a mountain lion won't look elsewhere because he will. And as far as seeing one of them, usually when you do see one it is too late. It's just much too big of a risk to go unprotected,
especially in areas in the south and the east where they are already pretty populated. Hope that helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#90454 - 03/20/08 04:46 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee

Aimless, if you ever survive a mountain lion attack, please post it up 'cause we will all want to hear about that one ............. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#90455 - 03/20/08 04:53 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Fiddleback]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee


A mountain lion's breeding habits are pretty indiscriminate and far as when they breed. They actually breed at any time. They don't have specific breeding times like some animals do. They usually have 2-3 offspring and sometimes maybe 4 so they do not breed like cats but they do breed fast enough that if they aren't controlled they could get out of hand pretty quickly..They are a little intimidated by humans but as their contact becomes more frequent they are likely to get a little more accustomed to us being around them and them being around us...Hope that Helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...


The first step that you take will one of those that get you there !!!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#90456 - 03/20/08 05:00 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: judach]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee


Tiny, your'e just big enough to make a meal for several of them, and they don't mind a fight. They are used to it and don't mind at all... Hope that Helps...Happy Trekking...sabre11004...


The first step that you take will be of those that get you there... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#90457 - 03/20/08 06:50 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: sabre11004]
Fiddleback Offline
member

Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 478
Loc: Northern Rockies
A little research will find the account of a ranger who was approached by a cougar. Mom lion was carrying a kitten and dropped the baby at/near the ranger's feet. The kitten was choking. The ranger cleared the kitten's throat and then backed away. Mom lion picked up the kitten and disappeared.

It was a long time ago...in the mid to late 60's I think and I think it took place in Florida. T'was reported by Reader's Digest, among others I imagine.

FB
_________________________
"...inalienable rights...include the right to a clean and healthful environment..." Montana Constitution

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#90458 - 03/20/08 06:54 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: sabre11004]
judach Offline
member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California, USA
Good point, although I don't mind a fight either... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#90459 - 03/20/08 06:57 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Narf]
judach Offline
member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California, USA
That is one BIG cat... haha. Well, if I'm going to be lunch anyway I might as well go down in a blaze of glory. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#90460 - 03/20/08 06:59 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: judach]
judach Offline
member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California, USA
Now, me actually "winning" the fight, MIGHT be a different story... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#90461 - 03/20/08 08:08 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: sabre11004]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I seriously doubt that mountain lions, constantly hungry, are always on the prowl for a human snack - I am not a wildlife biologist, but I understand that their typical attack on their usual prey, deer in the western states, is to pounce from above and behind, typically breaking the neck and piercing the jugular vein. This suggests to me that you will never see the one that is going to have you over for dinner. Most predators do not indulge in frontal assaults - wasteful and inefficient.

I do consider what hazards I might confront when I step out of my door and being attacked by a mountain lion is #687, well behind more likely hazards. Of course this ranking can change depending upon the circumstances. I would agree that cougars are not just big, harmless pussycats and that one should be very cautious in their presence.

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#90462 - 03/21/08 06:00 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: oldranger]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Interesting article in the Seattle Times. There's a link to a video, too...


Cougar Article

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#90463 - 03/22/08 09:47 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: sabre11004]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
That's what I'm talking about. The 45 auto won't be seen by anyone until I need it.

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#90464 - 03/24/08 12:51 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: demo]
packfish Offline
member

Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 22
I hike in Cat country weekly and I am aware of them. I see a lot of their kills and give the area room. I do hike with a dog and I do carry a pistol. I don't worry too much about them though.

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#90465 - 03/24/08 04:27 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: packfish]
hootyhoo Offline
member

Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 686
Loc: Cyberspace
Did anyone see that show on Discovery where they were rebuilding a fence or something in Tiger country and they had a couple of guys with rifles and they all wore face masks on the back of their head to deter a rear attack. You could paint a face on the back of balaclava and wear it (UL, multipupose)- or get a halloween mask and wear it on the back of your head. Then the lion would think you are looking at them from any angle.

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#90466 - 03/24/08 04:39 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: hootyhoo]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hooti
Apparently woodcutters in India took to wearing the face masks on the back of their heads to deter Tigers. One guy took it off while sitting on a log eating and a tiger grabbed him from behind... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Many tropical fish employ the same visual clue defence mechanism as do many butterflies. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#90467 - 03/24/08 05:08 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: hootyhoo]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I thought I had eyes in the back of my head anyway! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#90468 - 03/24/08 05:10 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Jimshaw]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Jim, you are indeed, a wealth of information. Thanks

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#90469 - 04/28/08 12:06 PM Re: Mountain lions - Kitty Kitty??? [Re: Fiddleback]
Litespeed Offline
newbie

Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 7
We did have one mountain lion attack a few years back in our local mountains. Two girls were riding their mountain bikes, when a cat jumped one of them. She lived (another mountain biker did not), but she has sever facial injuries.

Then again we just had a fatal white shark attack on our local beaches too. These are extremely rare and I certainly don't concern myself with them. I figure if it's your time to go, it's your time.

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#90470 - 05/22/08 09:17 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
This from 5/18/08 near Albuquerque:

http://www.koat.com/news/16322009/detail.html
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(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#117149 - 06/11/09 10:30 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
Whiskeyguy Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 103
Loc: Northern California, USA
Mountain lions are growing in population, at least here in California (where voters banned the hunting of them in 1992). I had only seen one in my life until I was 23... I have seen four since then (I am almost 26 now)... and I have been exposed to the outdoors my entire life. They are very elusive and since hunting has been banned they really have no natural predators... which makes them pretty confident. I have caught a mountain lion stalking me in deep brush once and it was pretty unsettling... luckily I had a handgun with me that time... just in case.

If possible, avoid very thick brush in wilderness areas. Always check your back trail, because as previous posters have noted cougars do stalk their prey... mainly because they (like most cats) have very small lungs and thus weak stamina... they can only sprint at full speed for short distances.

If confronted by a cougar, be as large as possible and make a lot of noise. If attacked, fight. Cougars don't like to pick fights they cant win, so act like a more vicious predator.

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#117157 - 06/11/09 11:59 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: Whiskeyguy]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
At least we know someone's reading the old threads... smile
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#117181 - 06/12/09 01:06 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: lori]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
Yes. The internet confers immortality - at least until the server dies and the backup fails. Or the money dries up. eek

As for the face mask worn on the back of the head to deter tigers, as mentioned above, that's a great trick, because tigers are proved man-eaters. Cougars otoh are pretty much preoccupied with deer, and luckily for us, the deer population is ample to feed them. grin

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#117186 - 06/12/09 02:43 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Speaking of tigers, I saw some youtube video where a guy is sitting on an elephant in India, and the tiger jumps out of the grass onto the elephant. Sorry, no link. frown
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#117202 - 06/12/09 07:29 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: finallyME]
MattnID Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/07
Posts: 317
Loc: Idaho
Yah that's a pretty popular video. I mean, the tiger jumps clear up to where the guy is sitting on his elephant and takes a good swipe at him. I can't remember if the tiger got him or the elephant, but it made me think twice about riding any elephants through the jungle in safety. Or maybe there's a new video out and I'm talking about a totally different video...
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In all things of nature there is something of the marvelous.-Aristotle

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#117433 - 06/20/09 11:06 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
JPete Offline
member

Registered: 05/28/09
Posts: 304
Loc: Eastern Ontario
This topic certainly has an audience. I'm very late to the party, but thought I'd add a sighting in another area. In 1996 I through-hiked the AT (the first time). About the middle of Shenandoah National Park, I came across the Pocosin Cabin about noon. I once led trips for the Wilmington, DE, Trail Club, and we had used the Pocosin Cabin a number of times. There was no one there at the time, so I jogged over and had my lunch on the steps; bit of nostalgia involved. When I finished, I went back to the trail by the access trail and turned north. In a few steps (the cabin was still in sight) the trail turned a bit to the right, and there were bushes above eye-level, close to the trail on the right. Therefor, I couldn't see ahead until I actually started into the turn. As I did, there was a mountain lion crouching in the middle of the trail, looking squarely at me, one paw slightly raised. He was probably about ten to fifteen meters away (well before the access road crossing). I think that somehow, I had surprised him. I was so surprised that I essentially froze, and it was not until after he left that I remembered I was not supposed to hold eye contact. I just stared. But he didn't stick around to see how I was going to react. Withing about ten or fifteen seconds, he turned and took off toward Skyline Drive in a series of long, fluid leaps with his tail flowing behind. I could see him for the first three, but then I could just hear a couple more. By that time, he was very close to the drive. If he crossed it, and somebody saw him (or her) There would have been a very surprised driver. I believe that sighting was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on a trail, and I've been hiking since the late 1940s.

It's only a couple miles or so from there to Lewis Mountain. I tried to report the sighting at the store, but the storekeeper could not get through on the telephone. I hustled, and managed to make Big Meadows just before dark. I found a ranger, reported and answered questions for long enough I couldn't really go looking for an appropriate camp site (the campground was full), so the ranger helped convince the lodge that there really was a room available for a "friend of the park" (it was a tiny one up in the eves that they evidently rarely rent out). But I never found out if they confirmed. They were skeptical, and when I stopped at the naturalist centre on the way out, they tried to convince me that it had to be a bobcat. They admitted that they had had a number of "sightings" reported, but that they had been unable to confirm any of them, and that they did not believe there were any in the area. I've seen several bobcats over the years (usually just a ball of generally yellowish fur going the other way very fast)but never one with a tail like that. Like another poster here, I grew up in Northwest Arkansas, and I remember the yowl of the "panther". We brought in the goats.

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#120818 - 09/13/09 12:32 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
Jandroos Offline
member

Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 15
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By chaz
I was listening to the news yesterday and there is evidence that mountain lions are rapidly gaining in numbers and moving into areas that have not had them before. Arkansas etc. Has anyone had experience with them and what is their nature as far as human contact?


I've seen foot prints around my property, but I live in the boonies.

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#120829 - 09/13/09 03:20 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: JPete]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
JPete:
Thanks for sharing that encounter in Shenandoah.
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(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#120852 - 09/13/09 01:11 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: kevonionia]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
My neighbor owns a cabin near Deep Creek lake in Garret co. MD.
It overlooks a field in which on 2 occasions he has seen, as described by him a black panther. He has owned the cabin for 30 years and has seen all wildlife there is to see in that area. I trust his judgement and have stayed at the cabim myself, I wonder if it could be a dark colored mountain lion he is seeing?
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#120854 - 09/13/09 01:26 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: bigb]
JimmyTH Offline
member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Indiana
Sightings weren't uncommon in Northwest Arkansas when I lived there a few years ago (grew up there, never saw one myself). A neighbor shot one that kept coming after her chickens, didn't report it because you get into trouble for doing that. Nothing official, some that were reported were black and officially that type doesn't exist. Alice saw one here in Indiana when she was a kid, scared the heck out of her horse. A ranger friend of mine who worked in the Smokey Mountain Nat Park saw tracks when she was there, a lion stalking wild pigs, but was told not to follow up on it. Officially there's some concern that if the lions were confirmed to be in an area it might put a damper on logging operations, or so she was told, so reports are discouraged. I've seen bobcats and I think it would be very hard to mistake one for a mountain lion.

JimmyTH

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#120971 - 09/15/09 03:35 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: JimmyTH]
Keith Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1664
Loc: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Originally Posted By JimmyTH
. . . but was told not to follow up on it. Officially there's some concern that if the lions were confirmed to be in an area it might put a damper on logging operations, or so she was told, so reports are discouraged. I've seen bobcats and I think it would be very hard to mistake one for a mountain lion.
JimmyTH


Here in Michigan, the DNR has been extremely reluctant to acknowledge the possibility of cougars (we have no real mountains, so they could hardly called mountain lions). Off the record scuttlebut is that it would create a new management issue for the department -- endangered species and all that. . .

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#121574 - 09/27/09 10:02 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: chaz]
dolomiti Offline
member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 139
Loc: houston, tx
I had an interesting experience in Colorado about 9 years ago. I was walking down a rural road and I saw 2 dogs run across the road in front of me, chasing a rabbit. As they got about 30 yards from the road, I heard a yelp as a mountain lion jumped one. It freaked me out to know that I was about 45 yards away from a big cat. Needless to say, I turned around and walked back to where I came from.
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#121621 - 09/29/09 10:59 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
hatidua Offline
member

Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By aimless
Cougars otoh are pretty much preoccupied with deer, and luckily for us, the deer population is ample to feed them. grin


While that might be the case in in some places, here in Colorado (Boulder to be specific), the cats dining habits seem somewhat different: there are far too many deer in town, so many that plants/gardens/small trees around the house are nibbled on constantly and my wife has had to beat the deer away from our shrubs on many occasions with a broom - they are not afraid of humans in the least. Although the deer are THICK, the most common cat incidents all seem to involve dogs. There were a spat of dog abductions in plain view of their owners several months ago.

I'd be thrilled if the local deer infestation kept the mountain lions adequately interested. Unfortunately, the cats seem to prefer organically fed Fido to deer.

I've installed several motion sensor lights on the back of the house and go out with the dogs whenever it's dark because the cats are right here in town and I live less than 200 yards from where the houses end and nature begins.

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#121629 - 09/29/09 12:44 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: hatidua]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By hatidua

I'd be thrilled if the local deer infestation kept the mountain lions adequately interested. Unfortunately, the cats seem to prefer organically fed Fido to deer.


They'll adapt to whatever prey in the area is easiest. They don't do that here because they get hunted with dogs, so they tend to associate dogs with trouble as opposed to organically fed clueless local fido.

We get Great Horned owls here in our river valley (normal prey skunks and showshoe hares) that have adapted quite nicely to housecats, discovering that when fluffy is let outside to wander the neighborhood and take a dump in the neighborhood flower beds he/she is much less likely to keep situational awareness of what's above than a showshoe hare.... And once they do that the owl tends to go exclusively for cats.. and teaches it's offspring...

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#121634 - 09/29/09 01:21 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: hatidua]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
the most common cat incidents all seem to involve dogs

While I don't doubt that cougars eating dogs is a problem in Boulder, as you describe, I also expect that when a cougar eats a deer it is not considered an "incident".

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#121638 - 09/29/09 02:04 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By aimless
the most common cat incidents all seem to involve dogs

While I don't doubt that cougars eating dogs is a problem in Boulder, as you describe, I also expect that when a cougar eats a deer it is not considered an "incident".


Are you kidding, it's Boulder.. If the cougar isn't an organic vegitarian it's probably a town wide full blown scandal.. wink wink wink wink
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#121648 - 09/29/09 05:22 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: JimmyTH]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3865
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I hear reports of sightings at least a few times a year. Two of them were by friends whose word I trust completely. Both said it was not a bobcat, it was a mountain lion.

One of these sightings was on our property. A neighbor was coming home from hunting late one night and heard a rustle in a tree. He shined his flashlight up into the tree and saw a mountain lion sitting on a branch about 20 ft up looking at him. He said he turned off the light and kept walking and the cat stayed in the tree.

So they are here, that's for sure.

I'm pretty sure I saw one earlier this year in a hayfield a couple miles from our place. It was a few hundred yards away and the grass was tall, but it was too big for a bobcat and it too had a long tail. I was driving around a curve and didn't get a good long look, so I could be mistaken.

The bobcat I wrote about awhile back that's been killing our domestic cats is still around and still killing cats.

But I checked and it is legal to kill any wild animal that is threatening your pets or livestock here in Missouri, so I'll work a little harder on making a winter hat out of that bobcat now that it's cooled down here.



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#121669 - 09/29/09 11:57 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: billstephenson]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
It legal till the sherif comes here in Cali...saw one the other day. Just sitting and waiting under a bush...

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#121673 - 09/30/09 12:48 AM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
hatidua Offline
member

Registered: 09/28/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By aimless
the most common cat incidents all seem to involve dogs

While I don't doubt that cougars eating dogs is a problem in Boulder, as you describe, I also expect that when a cougar eats a deer it is not considered an "incident".


Actually, there is an ongoing study and they (the wildlife biologists involved with the study) track these cats pretty intently - and consider deer kills to be incidents as well.

I wish the cats WOULD eat more deer, my garden would benefit from a few less deer around.

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#121689 - 09/30/09 01:47 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: hatidua]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2838
Loc: Portland, OR
So, when you say the "most common" incidents involve dogs, are you saying that this ongoing study has found that cougars eat dogs more often than deer or any other prey? That would be a very interesting finding!

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#122647 - 10/19/09 08:14 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: aimless]
JimmyTH Offline
member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Indiana
When you get down to the community level you see a whole different view of the world, and it's probably more accurate -- at least on that same local level. I remember when I was in college, one of the classes I took focused on endangered species, and the professor recounted a study of a tortoise in Florida which was considered to be on the brink of extinction until a student spoke up and said, hey! where I live there are tons of those things. Turned out to be true. Sea otters in California survived because people locally knew about them and didn't tell anybody. So I tend to trust local reports, people usually know enough details that you can figure out whether they are making up stories or not. I was buying lumber at a local mill a few years ago when the guy who runs it asked if I wanted to see the wolf he'd shot, he said it looked like a cross between a wolf and a dog, and it probably did. I didn't look, don't like to encourage that kind of behaviour. But I know him as a knowledgeable outdoorsman, who I'm sure reported what he saw (and shot) accurately. I expect he killed a hybrid coyote/dog and thought it was a wolf, it's been several decades since anybody reported a wolf pack in that area, and the last time anyone did have problems with a pack the local people got together and did a hunt and killed them. Sometimes it's better for the animals to say nothing about it. Other people in the area tell me they see black panthers, I trust them over the Park Service. Lots of real stuff happens that isn't official. Animals tend to survive even when we think they can't.

Jimmy TH

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#122711 - 10/20/09 07:10 PM Re: Mountain lions [Re: JimmyTH]
bigb Offline
member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: Maryland
Very well said
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"In the beginers mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's there are few."
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