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#90266 - 02/20/08 11:55 AM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: ndsol]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
I wondered how stable AM was/is <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> shelf life? anyone?

Also, I did not think it killed viruses so if that is also not true then the poster who said it did should edit their post.

ndsol you apparently are paying attention <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90267 - 02/20/08 12:09 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Earthling]
EricKingston Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 272
Loc: Michigan
This is grossly simplified, but it may help to shed some light. I pulled this directly from the EPA's website, specifically referring to Cryptosporidium and Giardia: "...studies concluded that chlorine dioxide is an excellent disinfectant against cysts and that chlorine dioxide is better than or equal to chlorine in terms of inactivation..." There's a lot more information to go over, but that's the gist of it.

Does that help?
Eric

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#90268 - 02/20/08 12:16 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: EricKingston]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Eric, i am wondering what the shelf stable life is of AM, since it has an expiration date on the sides of the bottles? How far past the date is it good? Or do you now have two small bleach bottles in your hands <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Well, I still think someone posted AM as killing viruses which I believe is inaccurate.
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90269 - 02/20/08 12:21 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Earthling]
EricKingston Offline
member

Registered: 11/01/02
Posts: 272
Loc: Michigan
I Googled the shelf life of Aqua Mira: 4 years.

From the same report on the EPA's website, it also states: "Chlorine dioxide has been shown to be an effective viricide..."

Sorry, I just always think of cysts as being the more difficult nasty to get rid of; therefore, since it does a decent job on cysts, I presumed it would be even more effective inactivating viruses. I'm no Microbiologist by any means, so if I'm wrong here, then chime in!

Eric
P.S. I hope I don't get in trouble for reproducing all this information! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />


Edited by EricKingston (02/20/08 12:33 PM)

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#90270 - 02/20/08 01:05 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: EricKingston]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Not from me Eric, I appreciate your answers <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I was wrong that AM did'nt kill viruses <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I think AM would be glad you are correcting my misconceptions about their product.

4 years from expiration date? or 4 years from manufacture date Eric?
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90271 - 02/20/08 01:53 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Earthling]
ndsol Offline
member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
Aquamira is chlorine dioxide and, as such, should kill viruses, crypto and giardia. But Aquamira does not (and may not legally be able to) make representations other than as to bacteria. I would be happy to be shown where Aquamira says otherwise. However, Katadyn does for its Micro Pur MP1 Purification tablets and so does MSR for its Miox.

In any case, my initial point is that Aquamira is certainly no better than the Miox or the Micro Pur and, as such, wait times are not any shorter for Aquamira. The nice thing about Miox is that it comes with testing strips so that you have the option to see how effective the dosage is.

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#90272 - 02/20/08 02:09 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: ndsol]
Ulhiker Offline
member

Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Arkansas
With AM, I know that you mix 7 drops of each one together, wait a few minutes, and then add to water. My question is: Can you mix A & B together before the trip, into one bottle and use it this way, or does it degrade too quickly to be of much use?

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#90273 - 02/20/08 02:31 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Ulhiker]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
I know the answer to this is that it degrades too quickly. You have to mix the A & B solution on the spot as needed.

Hmm NDSOL? Now I'm getting confused <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90274 - 02/20/08 03:56 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Earthling]
ndsol Offline
member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
Earthling, you have it right from what I know.

An analogy for the Aquamira would be those adhesives where there are two parts. You squirt equal parts of each, mix them together and then glue what you want. But you can't wait too long to use the mixed adhesive or else it will harden and be ineffective. Same with Aquamira as the mixing starts the chemical process.

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#90275 - 02/20/08 04:02 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: ndsol]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
Chlorine Dioxide does indeed kill cysts, but the issue is time. ClO2 has shown to NOT be effective against crypto with exposure of 1/2 hour. (I think the recommended time is 4 hours to kill crytpo with ClO2).

A company that uses ClO2 as the active ingredient is trying to market its product and since time is very important to consumers they reduce the wait time and exclude crypto from the list. Of course if one waits long enough the ClO2 will break through the cysts shell, but time is not something some people are willing to sacrifice.

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#90276 - 02/20/08 05:46 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: EricKingston]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
How about boiling it? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I use a PUR hiker, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />but one time we camped where there were cows in the marsh along the lake and I don't think the PUR was comlpetely effective, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> whereas filtering and boiling would be. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> As for fuel weight - I got no problem carrying an extra bottle - <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />insures my coffee habit, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> and frankly 95% of the water I consume is hot coffee from boiled water and the rest is in instant oatmeal. {Every trip ain't an 80- pound gourmet trip.} <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Jim YMMV <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#90277 - 02/20/08 06:55 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Jimshaw]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I am with you on boiling water if you want to be really sure about getting rid of the bad stuff. Some years ago I was privileged to participate in a caving expedition in China, far, far from commercially treated water. The custom then was to provide drinking water, which had been boiled, in large, Thermos-like containers. I was never sure what our water source was, but in one village, I suspect it was an open irrigation ditch. Alternatively, the source may have been a well which shared a common water table with said irrigation ditch.

I am sure the original water on this trip was as contaminated as anything any of us had ever experienced anywhere. But our drinking water came from the ubiquitous Thermos bottles. During a month of caving, the twelve of us Americans on the trip experienced exactly zero cases of Mao's revenge. As far as I am concerned, boiling is the technique if you really want to be pure (aside from the situation of arsenic and other metals contaminating your water) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#90278 - 02/21/08 05:34 AM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: oldranger]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
When I use a kelly kettle its pointless to treat the water because it achieves a full rolling boil. I also use aqua-mira, but where I hike I think I would do just fine if I didn't treat the water at all, perhaps even better. If I hiked some place where a kelly kettle or hobbo stove was impractical I would use a small alcohol stove and aqua-mira if the water was questionable. That said, though it is less important to protect ourselves from the environment, and more important to protect the environment from our activity; personal hygene and water treatment are important components towards that end. (pardon the pun <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

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#90279 - 02/21/08 12:28 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: oldranger]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Quote:
boiling is the technique if you really want to be pure (aside from the situation of arsenic and other metals contaminating your water)


And pesticides, petroleum products, carcinogens (is that a dump upstream?), etc.. Charcoal filters may have some limited utility here, but there are only two ways to be fairly certain of the water purity - distillation or osmosis. Other than that and you're betting that the only contamination is biological in nature.

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#90280 - 02/21/08 01:03 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: NiytOwl]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Or you just enjoy waving 'magic wands' and saying hocus pocus stuff while it's doing it's thing <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#90281 - 02/21/08 01:31 PM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Earthling]
Mike M Offline
member

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Alexandria, VA
Here's a link to the US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine web site. It lists a variety of purification products and rates the effectivness of each. You need to read the notes to understand why a product was rated like it was. Just another source to make an informed choice.

http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/WPD/CompareDevices.aspx

I agree that the best way is boiling and so does the EPA. That being said I use Medentech AQUATABS when traveling in South America and have always had good luck while others in my party got sick. I do bump up the wait time to 1 hour plus though. If I suspect an area has the dreaded cryptosporidium I'll take Katadyn Micropur or a mechanical filter

I believe this link was posted on the board some time ago but I'm old and banged my head on too many low branches

BTW: I have a 3 dozen packs of AQUATABS that expire in 2 years (too old for the kits I make and sell). If you want a couple of 10 tablet strips PM me with an address and I'll send them snail mail. First come first serve, free, no junk mail or anything else...really!!

Mike M

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#90282 - 02/22/08 10:51 AM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Ulhiker]
Hector Offline
member

Registered: 12/20/04
Posts: 325
Loc: LA/ARK/TX corner
No, you shouldn't premix a trips-worth of Aqua Mira. But it's incredibly simple to mix in the field. Heck, if I can do it without spilling everywhere... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I carry AM and one of those little in-bottle filters (and one Nalgene to use it with). AM is primary treatment, the little filter's only if I run into a really yucky source I can't look at much less drink.

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#90283 - 02/28/08 11:10 AM Re: WATER TREATMENT [Re: Mike M]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
Here's a link to the US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine web site. It lists a variety of purification products and rates the effectivness of each. You need to read the notes to understand why a product was rated like it was. Just another source to make an informed choice.

http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/WPD/CompareDevices.aspx

I agree that the best way is boiling and so does the EPA. That being said I use Medentech AQUATABS when traveling in South America and have always had good luck while others in my party got sick. I do bump up the wait time to 1 hour plus though. If I suspect an area has the dreaded cryptosporidium I'll take Katadyn Micropur or a mechanical filter

I believe this link was posted on the board some time ago but I'm old and banged my head on too many low branches

BTW: I have a 3 dozen packs of AQUATABS that expire in 2 years (too old for the kits I make and sell). If you want a couple of 10 tablet strips PM me with an address and I'll send them snail mail. First come first serve, free, no junk mail or anything else...really!!

Mike M


Thanks MadMoe, Roger Wilco on the tabs arrival <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Now do us all a favor and jump down to Off Topic and tell us about your kits! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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