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#89152 - 02/06/08 08:20 AM Interesting article
wld_rthr_b_ridng Offline
member

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: WV
Just thought I'd share an interesting article I came across.

CNN

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#89153 - 02/06/08 08:38 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
Buster_Martin Offline
member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 89
Loc: Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
Yeah, I read this yesterday, but I just shrugged it off a bit. I mean, I grew up as a hunter/outdoorsman, and this is something that I've noticed in my area. The findings didn't shock me, but they were still disturbing. When I was growing up (and I'm not really all that old), all my friends were hunters, fisherman, campers, canoers, etc. As they got older, though, they all lost interest in those things. And the older generation (our parents) are either getting up there in years and are in bad health, or are dying off, so they aren't doing that stuff.

It's almost a double edged sword...it's bad that there's less people doing the outdoors things, because that could eventually lead to some loss of natural areas. However, it's also nice because there's less people out in nature to interact with which makes it a little more peaceful for those who do still go. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

On a related note, I do have to say that I'm somewhat shocked about the comment, "contrasted with exploding deer populations." I know, at least in my area, an exploding deer population is nowhere near accurate. Deer are on the decline where I'm from...and we've always been a historically deer heavy area. Maybe that's just my area, though, and it's not the norm.
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#89154 - 02/06/08 08:38 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
It's sad that too many people don't get out more and enjoy the outdoors. But I guess if they are not gonna go then it leaves more space for the ones that do. BTW I was in the storm that swept through last nite here in the south. Messed up a mall and killed several people.My family was huddled in an interior closet for safety. No damage except for some roof shingles blown off. Guess I'll have to pay for roof repair and postpone the new pack.

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#89155 - 02/06/08 08:42 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: Buster_Martin]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
If you want to hunt plenty of deer, you should come to the mid-south area. They are everywhere around here!

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#89156 - 02/06/08 08:52 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: chaz]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Yeah, when I was growing up in central NC, a deer in the backyard was a sight to behold. Now a deer in the yard is just a nuisance. I still enjoy seeing them, but it isn't the same magic it used to be.

I do still get a kick out of seeing moose in the yard, even though they tend to destroy vegetation... (moose fencing is an art here).

MNS
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#89157 - 02/06/08 09:07 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: Buster_Martin]
billstephenson Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3915
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
More than anything, I think it's a result of a change in society which has effected parenting.

My love for the outdoors was encouraged by my mother and aunts every time they yelled at me "Get outside and play". I can still hear them when I've been inside too much. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Parents don't do that anymore. Many are afraid to. That's the sad part.

Bill S

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#89158 - 02/06/08 12:39 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
LaoTzu42 Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Indiana
This is probably preaching to the choir, but get your kids involved in scouting or anything you can to foster that love of the outdoors.

Ours is one of the few families I know of that go camping on a regular basis.

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#89159 - 02/06/08 03:31 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: LaoTzu42]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
This relates to one of the other threads where someone was complaining about too many posers in the outdoors (can't remember who, but you know who you are <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).

My point was yes, it's nice to out there alone, or with "serious" hikers, but, if no one takes an interest in preserving public natural areas, someone will come along and take it from you through development or privatization.
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#89160 - 02/06/08 06:58 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2793
Loc: California
Kids do not just go camping, parents take them and train them. When I grew up my mom, a full time homemaker, did all the trip planning, food preparation and packed everything. My dad came home from work and drove the car to the campground. Moms nowadays are stretched thin and few have time for this. Also, kids are too regulated nowadays - little free play outdoors. Their weekends are all scheduled - little league, soccar, dance, this or that lesson, etc.

I think also the fees that are now charged for campgrounds do not help. It used to be free. Plus with the reservation system, with kids, how do you know enough to reserve a campground 6 months ahead?

Television and technology have done their damage too. Kids now expect to be continually entertained. I do not even camp at campgrounds anymore because if there are families, they are in RV's and have boom boxes and TV's.

And it is not just kids. Adults are too busy and too out of shape to get outdoors. Gyms are more popular because you can go for a few hours.

In spite of the lack of actually going outdoors, they do teach more environmental subjects in the schools than when I went. Most kids now get a lot of school training on wildlife, enviornment and recycling. So I am not sure that just because kids do not spend as much time outdoors that they do not value the environment.

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#89161 - 02/06/08 07:48 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: wandering_daisy]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Hi Daisy, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
We were at a weekend party in the east Sierra (Toms Place by Mammoth). SO the "gals" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> were to go light the charcoal fire for the cookout. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />So my wife says, "Take Jim, he'll teach you about fire.", <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> but the reaction was "I bought self start charcoal brickets.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

So I followed 4 modern inteligent average city women out to the garden <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />[ it could have men only they were too proud]. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />I forgot the hostess name but anyway she pours the whole bag into the BBQ and drops a match on it. You shoulda seen her face <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> when she didn't get an instant roaring charcoal fire. In fact she got nothing. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> About a dozen matches later the look on their faces has turned to complete disbelief. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Anyway I won't tell you the rest of the story, I'll just say that I was awed at their total lack of even a clue about lighting a fire. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Who's gonna teach THEIR kids to light a fire? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My sister in law believes than thin silk underear will keep her warm at any temperature because silk is warm isn't it? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I mean every time I tell people I went snow camping they say "Oh I guess you dug a snow cave huh?". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Like what? Is everybody getting this from tv? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Like what they "know" is wrong. So how do they show the kids? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Take a kid camping. teach her to light a fire. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#89162 - 02/06/08 08:50 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: chaz]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
chaz:

Glad to hear you're okay. Sure that was an experience you could have done without. Sounds like Tennessee was one of the hardest hit.

Man, that was some wild weather, especially for the 1st week of February. We've had close to 90 days of way-above-average temps in Miami. Could portend a wild spring in the MW.
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#89163 - 02/06/08 10:49 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: Jimshaw]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:

I mean every time I tell people I went snow camping they say "Oh I guess you dug a snow cave huh?". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Like what? Is everybody getting this from tv? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Like what they "know" is wrong. So how do they show the kids? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


TV Man.. Bear Grylls...

Quote:

Take a kid camping. teach her to light a fire. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Amen Brother..
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#89164 - 02/07/08 12:03 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: phat]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Quote:
TV Man.. Bear Grylls...


Oh man...don't get me started about that unprincipled fraud. I was doing a little experiment in the back yard, trying to start a fire with the fire saw method. The girls came out and asked what I was doing. I told them and offered to give them a try - "Nah...but I wanna watch." So 5 minutes becomes 10 minutes, after which the eldest says, "You really suck at that!" I asked why she thought that. "Because that guy on Discovery can do it in, like, a minute!" Grrrrrrrr. And they don't believe me when I tell them that it really takes a lot more time to make a fire rubbing sticks than what they "saw" on TV.

I think what makes it hard to do the "outdoor" thing with the family is that they aren't willing to forgo modern conveniences. When we plan an outing I hear, "I hope this place has hot showers." "I'm not going if I gotta use those smelly pit toilets again." "Does this campground have a store with ice cream?" "Is there electricity for my blow dryer?"

I'd love to get them more interested in the outdoors, but having come into their lives after those early formative years, I fear it's going to be a real uphill battle.

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#89165 - 02/07/08 10:50 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: NiytOwl]
LaoTzu42 Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Indiana
Quote:
TV Man.. Bear Grylls...

Oh man...don't get me started about that unprincipled fraud. I was doing a little experiment in the back yard, trying to start a fire with the fire saw method.


Yes, he is a tool. I think it was Outside magazine that had an article on him a few months back talking about the controversy over many of the things he has faked. I boycott his show, but love Les Stroud.

Quote:
I think what makes it hard to do the "outdoor" thing with the family is that they aren't willing to forgo modern conveniences. When we plan an outing I hear, "I hope this place has hot showers." "I'm not going if I gotta use those smelly pit toilets again." "Does this campground have a store with ice cream?" "Is there electricity for my blow dryer?"


Well, you certainly have to pick your battles. I let my 11 year old son take a GameBoy, but he can only play it during "downtime" at camp. Can't take it hiking with us or anything like that.

I still say get your kids out there and maybe you can slowly wean them off some of the modern distractions. Most parks have a ton of activities that kids can participate in that help the time go by quickly. Find an activity, wildflower identification, geocaching, whatever that they enjoy and spend a lot of time doing it. Even if it's something that you are not that interested in.

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#89166 - 02/07/08 11:55 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: NiytOwl]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2793
Loc: California
I was a tyrant! My daughter had to "earn" her college money from me by going backpacking with me (an 18-day off trail route with some very challenging sections). No trip, no money. Now, what she says she was irritated about is that I did not let HER do more. She did all the fishing and I started the fire and cooked. She wanted to cook and set up the tent too.

We also did NOT have TV all the time my kids were growing up. So at least I did not have to compete with the ideal outdoorsmen on TV.

I took my kids out regularly when the were little and as they got older they simply were expected to still go. I did not treat my two daughters any different than if they were two boys wtih respect to outdoor activity. They still love to do outdoor activities. When my older daughter was a medical resident, she would work a 36 hour shift and then go fishing to "relaxe". I was always worried that she would fall asleep on her feet and fall into the river and drown!

To be fair, they grew up in Wyoming where outdoor activies are considered normal for kids. They also grew up before the internet!

Hang in there. Kids do change as they grow. Keep offering positive outdoor experiences and who knows, maybe they will come around.

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#89167 - 02/07/08 12:10 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: wandering_daisy]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I listened to a fellow give a speech about climate change and energy alternatives. At one point he made the statement that he didn't see what people find so beautiful about glaciers, because they are not abundant with life. He also made the argument that life thrived in much warmer geological epochs than ours.

These statements are true, but misleading, and largely based on dangerous sentiments. We consider or current level of energy consumption to be 'normal' even though our current levels are only about 60 years old, and we are resitant to consider reverting back to 10% or even 20% of our current levels. On the other hand, we are willing to consider a 2 or 3 or even 10 degree increase in global temperature over the next 100 or 200 years as being normal, because such temperature exited 30-50 millions of years ago, even though they are very abnormal in the context of the past 10,000 years, and even the past 1 million years. Don't even get me started on CO2 levels or mass extinctions.

Clearly we don't get out enough.

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#89168 - 02/08/08 06:20 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
froldt Offline
member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 67
Loc: Ireland
I grew up camping and canoeing and being told to "go play outside!" I'm only 26, and my fiance and I plan to "drag" our future kids camping every chance we get! They're going to learn to hike and build a fire and get dirty and skip rocks (I love skipping rocks!) and canoe/kayak and everything else that every kid needs to know!

My fiance didn't go camping much as a kid, and her lake outings were in a motor boat. However, she always wanted to spend more time camping and hiking and has aspirations of thru-hiking the AT. Our first outing as friends was a rappelling trip, her first! She's been hooked ever since. We're moving away from day hikes toward over-nighters, further each trip.
So there is hope. There are people out there who would love to get outside more, but need someone to teach them! A lot of my friends love to go camping, but won't without someone giving them the nudge. So I mention it about every time we get together. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#89169 - 02/08/08 06:48 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: froldt]
LaoTzu42 Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Indiana
Quote:
I grew up camping and canoing and being told to "go play outside!" I'm only 26, and my fiance and I plan to "drag" our future kids camping every chance we get! They're going to learn to hike and build a fire and get dirty and skip rocks (I love skipping rocks!) and canoe/kayak and everything else that every kid needs to know!

My fiance didn't go camping much as a kid, and her lake outings were in a motor boat. However, she always wanted to spend more time camping and hiking and has aspirations of thru-hiking the AT. Our first outing as friends was a rappelling trip, her first! She's been hooked ever since. We're moving away from day hikes toward over-nighters, further each trip.
So there is hope. There are people out there who would love to get outside more, but need someone to teach them! A lot of my friends love to go camping, but won't without someone giving them the nudge. So I mention it about every time we get together. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Good for you man! My wife was the same way when we were dating. She had never been camping or anything like that. We started going camping a little and she came to love it. We've been married almost 18 years now and our kids have grown up hiking/camping. Don't think I could ever get her to go rappelling, but she really enjoys identifying wildflowers and things like that. You're on the right track!

What part of Kentucky are you in? Take your wife to the Red River Gorge and Natural Bridge State Park. Beautiful!

Jeff

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#89170 - 02/08/08 07:01 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: wld_rthr_b_ridng]
tinaanderson Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 18
There are a lot of people that would find that they love the outdoors if they got out and participated in some activity, whether it be hiking or something else. We have to teach our kids to get outside, be active and get the most out of life, rather than just sitting in front of a TV or computer screen for their entire life.
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#89171 - 02/08/08 10:23 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: tinaanderson]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
I had my son outdoors hiking etc. starting when he was just a few months old. I felt sure that it would be something he would love to do 'naturally'. Turns out he has a few favorite activities (ice skating, boating, mountain biking), but generally prefers to not go outside just to play. We went probably 2 years without him hiking at all because he would flat out refuse to go. Now he'll hike if you have the appropriate bribe with you (rice crispy treats work well), but he doesn't go because he enjoys hiking, that's for sure. He does enjoy camping, and I feel sure that eventually he will come around on his own to enjoy many more outdoor activities because they weren't forced upon him. I think that if you get your kids outside and model outdoor activities as a good choice, but don't force them to participate, they will eventually want to participate. Some kids naturally take to it like ducks to water, and you are lucky with those. But not all kids are interested in being outdoors, and those are the ones that you just have to keep trying new activities with them until you find something they like.

MNS
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#89172 - 02/08/08 12:56 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: midnightsun03]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
My daughter is more concerned with knowing her I-pod is charged and getting on a computer to play some sim game online. I did get her in my test hammock last weekend and she thought that was cool. Shes 13. I would love to take her camping but my wife will not hear of it. She thinks some kind of harm will come to her if she gets to far from mom's sight. Mom's idea of camping is a holiday Inn. The problem with being so protective is that when she get's a bit older, she will become more independent and then she will have a problem. She (my daughter) has a cell phone so my wife can call and check on her about every 30 minutes. I think she will come around and want to go car camping when she gets a bit older but their is so much fun and beauty to discover that I think she is missing out. I was able to take her fishing and put her on some fish. What a thrill to see her hook and land her first trout. It's those fleeting moments that make having children all worthwhile.

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#89173 - 02/08/08 10:55 PM Re: Interesting article [Re: LaoTzu42]
froldt Offline
member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 67
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Good for you man! My wife was the same way when we were dating. She had never been camping or anything like that. We started going camping a little and she came to love it. We've been married almost 18 years now and our kids have grown up hiking/camping. Don't think I could ever get her to go rappelling, but she really enjoys identifying wildflowers and things like that. You're on the right track!

What part of Kentucky are you in? Take your wife to the Red River Gorge and Natural Bridge State Park. Beautiful!

Jeff


We're here in Lexington attending U.K. We've got our year pass to the Red River Gorge and are enjoying exploring it a weekend at a time, as we get a chance.
Actually, we're planning our wedding and are looking for just the right arch under which to hold it.

We are from Western Kentucky, about 10 minutes from Kentucky Lake and about 15 minutes from Land Between the Lakes. We had lots of places so close by there, but here at school it's a bit harder to get away. Still, the desire is there, and it's a goal to get out of the urban setting as soon as possible. We miss seeing the stars at night!
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#89174 - 02/09/08 05:36 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: tinaanderson]
leadfoot Offline
member

Registered: 07/16/03
Posts: 954
Loc: Virginia
Quote:
There are a lot of people that would find that they love the outdoors if they got out and participated in some activity, whether it be hiking or something else. We have to teach our kids to get outside, be active and get the most out of life, rather than just sitting in front of a TV or computer screen for their entire life.


I agree with you, but I don't agree with your pitch below on Virginia Hiking. I live not far from that area and I have seen what your commercialism has done to the lake. The entire area is being torn apart to build large homes, the lake shoreline is being built up, and roads widened, shopping centers needing to support the economy. Yeah...get out and enjoy the outdoors before promoters like you destroy it.

You're right. rare scenic beauty. What's left is condo city to gaze at. And please don't give me that nonsense about environmental stewardship.

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#89175 - 02/09/08 09:57 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: leadfoot]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Sounds like a good rationalization for National (and State, and County, and local) parks.....

What would you expect an old ranger to say?

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#89176 - 02/11/08 07:19 AM Re: Interesting article [Re: froldt]
LaoTzu42 Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 29
Loc: Indiana
Quote:
We're here in Lexington attending U.K. We've got our year pass to the Red River Gorge and are enjoying exploring it a weekend at a time, as we get a chance.
Actually, we're planning our wedding and are looking for just the right arch under which to hold it.

We are from Western Kentucky, about 10 minutes from Kentucky Lake and about 15 minutes from Land Between the Lakes. We had lots of places so close by there, but here at school it's a bit harder to get away. Still, the desire is there, and it's a goal to get out of the urban setting as soon as possible. We miss seeing the stars at night!


Unfortunately I don't know Western Ky that well. My wife's grandfather used to have a cabin on Nolan Lake if you know where that is.

I know Lexington well. A cousin of mine is a sophomore at UK. My family is originally from Owlsley County. 80 or so miles south-east from Lexington. (They've been there for almost 200 years.) Beautiful down there. Wish I could get down there more often.

Your wedding idea sounds great! Wish I had thought about something like that when we got married.

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