SERIOUSLY: LURKERS ONLY!

IF YOU POST MORE THAN 5 TIMES A WEEK, PLEASE ENJOY READING BUT DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST.


So Earthling mentioned in another thread regarding PBF that we likely have more lurkers on TLB than they do active members. I think he's probably right. But the point of this post is not a comparison between us and an obviously inferior pseudo-community resembling a forum where the only information exchange occurs surreptitiously.


The point of this post is threefold:

1) to go against my nature of passively reading information posted by others (read: lurking) and try to contribute to the body of knowledge that is TLB

2) to survey the number of lurkers in our community should they feel inclined to go against their nature as well

3) and to conduct an experiment entailing building something out of nothing.

By definition we lurk and post nothing (or very little), but in order to have a post for lurkers only, we must no longer lurk, but instead, post something.


Now this should be very interesting because I, for one, lurk because there are many members here which have much more knowledge than I do and are very free with it, so I feel that it is unnecessary for me to post in response to the vast majority of threads. But this post does not seek specific information. You can post about anything having to do with lurking.

Some suggestions include: why we lurk, what specifically keeps us from posting in a given thread, demographic information, statements of lurker solidarity, the function of lurkers, etc.


So there is the possibility for this thread to be very short (maybe this will be the only post) or very long, but either way, those that read will learn something about what I think might be a vital part of TLB forums.

This is the main reason I, too, lurk. So many people here have much more experience and knowledge in this realm than I, so why not just learn from them when they are willing to share with others? I don't feel the need to post to a thread when the aforementioned 'experts' have already posted, or will likely post in the future, and answer the question with greater detail than I could. I started here as a complete beginner and thanks in part to this site, moved way past being a novice.

So I can intelligently post in some of the forums, but others forums (ie. Make Your Own Gear, Lite Food Talk, a few others) I have very little to no experience, so I just read those forums rather than post in them. I am not adverse to posting questions in any forum, but cannot intelligently respond in certain forums, thus I don't post in them.

A very miniscule (but present) reason I have few posts is because some of the 'hardcore' members will jump on you like white on rice. I actually find this to be quite funny and sometimes read threads just to laugh at the bickering going on. Now I don't think I would say something or make a claim like sabre11004 has in the Stove tests thread, but if I somehow did do something like that, I don't want to have to defend my position on a point that is probably not all that important. Further expounding on this issue, I'd like to be responded to seriously on future questions or posts and if you get a troll reputation, you won't get as good of responses.

I'm a regular poster here but with an average of about 3 posts/week (based on total number of posts divided by total weeks here) I fit your definition of a lurker so here's my $.02. Personally I don't think a bona fide lurker would post much more than once per month but that's just my opinion.

I have lots of interests and there are other boards where I consider myself to be a true lurker. On one, I used to post quite a bit but I just burned out and now I'm in lurker mode. I still go there every day but I post maybe once a year. I was also put off by the heavy handed moderation.

And speaking of heavy handed moderation, I'm definitely in lurker mode over at PBF for that very reason. I just don't feel like posting in a place where I have to wonder if my words will still be there the next day. IMO there may be more lurkers than we think over there.

On the other side of the coin, I quit posting in another forum that is under moderated and as result has become downright hostile.

I'm in a kayaking forum as well but I don't consider myself to be experienced enough to post anything profound there. Over there I'm the newbie asking the questions and not answering any.

In order to post on any board a person must develop a thick skin. No matter what you say others will sometimes disagree. Some will disagree in a civil manner and some will not. Sometimes I feel compelled to defend my position and sometimes I just let it go. Such is the nature of places like this. It's only the internet.

I guess I too am a lurker. I've been with this forum even before my listed registered date (I think that got messed up with the forum upgrade that occurred quite a few years ago), yet I have considerably fewer posts than many of the other members (even the newer ones) within this forum. Ultimately, I'm not really sure why I haven't posted more. Perhaps it's just laziness. Who knows?

Eric

Post deleted by Jimshaw

I am a lurker mostly because other people just know more than I do. But I just can not spell well. So I have to type what I can spell not what I want. So I am somewhat lazy because I could use word and fix the mistakes. Others just cover most of what I have to say. I do chime in with some things. 72 post over several years.
Kevin

I lurk for the most part largely because I'm lazy. I check out this board everyday, but only post when it's something that
A: I'm iREALLY nterested in.
and
B: I can add something that no one else does.

Don't see much use in attaboy posts.
roosterk

Quick, Jon - delete his post - (Mine, too) - massive violation of posting rules! And revoke our memberships, while you're at it.

Oops. This is TLB, not PB. Wrong forum. Sorry. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes I'm a lurker, and sometimes I'm not... so only 50% of this post counts. The other 50% never happened. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

What I love about this site is the civility level here. Even the humorous retorts here are generally very good natured. Makes it very comfortable to post here, knowing that usually you won't get jumped on for some percieved slight that was never intended.

I'm a lurker at this point for a bunch of reasons...many of which have already been mentioned by others. I thought about staying true to my lurking heritage and not posting a response here, but every once in a while one has to break with tradition, ya know? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The main reason I lurk is because I'm a newb to backpacking in general. I do a lot of day hikes in my area, camping, fishing, etc., but backpacking hasn't been possible until recently. I post when I know I have valuable info to give (ie, responding to posts about PA, MD, or DE), or if I have pictures I'd like to share, but otherwise I just keep quiet and try to learn from others.

Once I gain more knowledge, I'll likely leave lurking long behind me. Until then, I'll keep my eyes on you. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am a lurker here. I visit the site about daily and hardly ever post.

I read daily and sometimes post. I learn more when I listen (read in this case) than I do speaking.

Lurker? Guilty as charged.

It's not that I don't feel that I have enough experience to post value contributions. I've been backpacking for over 30 years. My first trip was back in about 1973 when I hiked the Chilkoot Trail in AK. I've been solidly hooked since then. Backpacking gear has really undergone a renaissance with the UL philosophy and because of that, I generally have been lurking (reading) as a way to learn about the new gear and the way it has evolved. I've learned a lot and gained so much knowledge and updated all my gear within the last 3-4 years. I also really enjoy making my own gear and haved learned alot about that without having much of my own to contribute in the DIY arena. My DIY accomplishments to date include 2 tarps, a bivy, 4 hammocks, a down underquilt, a couple of alcohol stoves and numerous stuff sacks. But I still consider myself a novice DIY'er.

Also, I've never done a thru hike on any of the big 3 trails. And so I tend to lay low and let the more experienced thru hikers speak up.

Excuse me, I had to interject <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Eric, I too got left behind when the forum upgraded due to my being very busy with work at the time. If I recall correctly you were on back in 2000 as were myself and a few others here <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I haven't posted in a while because I found that some things can just "set" someone off. I make one post on how I don't like guns and at least 25 different people came and practically yelled at me about how they needed guns. So I just shut up and left. I still cringe when I see a new post on that particular thread. So maybe thats why I don't post anymore.

I had a similar instance when I posted about a tent pole company (dare I ever mention the name again). The company had made me absolutely furious, but it was a long time ago and ultimately, I think the whole topic was deleted. I was just giving my opinions in full honesty. I didn't make another post for quite some time after that. Regardless, there will always be differences in the way we view certain things. It was probably a good thing to rid the forum of those postings.

Eric

Post deleted by Jimshaw

It sounds like some have had their toes stepped on before, causing them to reconsider posting anything in the future.

Online communication seems inherently more difficult due to the fact that most communication is done nonverbally and the read word is verbal, so things like tone of voice, body language, and other things indicating emotion and intent are not present unless it can be encapsulated in one of those goofy smilies. :-)

Let's keep the lurker discussion going, as I can see the thread is in danger of being hijacked, unintentional though it may be.

I lurk for much the same reasons above, most of the time I don't have anything new to add. You can now file this post under the most ironic section.

Also, I seem to have an unique ability to kill a thread. It seems that over half my posts end up being the last post in a thread. Go ahead, check out my posts. It seems completely involuntary, so I can't force a thread to end, it just happens. Maybe its just an undeveloped super hero ability.

LOL drow42!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guns, a necessary evil.

That's actually a pretty cool "superpower" lurk. I say it doesn't really matter what the mechanism of the phenomenon is, just see if you can make that happen at work as well.

I can see it now:

Lurk: Hiya there, boss! I just got back from my vacation. How can I help with the new [insert account/project name here].

Boss: Well, Lurk, we actually just wrapped up that account and are planning our next project. We'll let you now when we get started in a couple of weeks. For now, we're planning a meeting to discuss plans for the planning meeting at which we'll plan the project planning meeting just before the previously planned project is planned to to launch...tentatively.

Lurk: SCORE! IT WORKED!

Note: Please do not turn this into a gun-no gun thread. That will get most likely get it locked.

???????I didn't say anything about guns??????

Unfortunately the real world is my bizzaro land, so at work all my superpowers are reversed. I walk in, and the boss says, "Oh great, we didn't have any clue how to do this, so we left it all for you. And its all due in a ridiculously short amount of time."

Guns - an evil necessity.

There, between us, we're off and running! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Please don't take our posts seriously - we're just funning around.

Sorry, that was supposed to be for Cheap. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I lurk because I have Bearpaw at my beck and call to answer my goofy and sometimes not so goofy questions....Bwahahahaha

Why log on if I can just lurk and ask him lter what's up...since he's on A LOT more than me.



Sleeps With Skunks

That's just cheating, SWS! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Doesn't come much closer than that to learning by osmosis...

MNS

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(lurk....

.....


..........................................................................................lurk!)

I have been lurking regularly and I just want to thank everyone here for the information I have gleaned from the forum. You folks are a wealth of knowledge.

Jim W.

I love it! I too, have no ability to keep a thread alive. Other threads that I have started that I thought would live awhile died immediately.

On the other hand, a brief question that I thought would garner no interest has lived on for weeks.

No telling, I guess...

Jim W.

Strangely enough, the thread about not posting and sarcastically encouraging people not to post in its name has been the thread of mine that has been most successful. Most others have garnered a few 10 responses and quickly been left for more interesting topics. Strange how that works. :-)

I've pretty much been a lurker for several years. I really like the forum but like others, feel that there are many with much more experience who can make more useful contributions. I chirp in occasionally if I have a question or have actual experience regarding the topic under discussion and don't think I'll just be repeating what has already been said. I've seen many threads on many boards go on forever with people chiming in with the same thing. Makes it tough to get to the content sometimes. Finally I'm not here all the time. I have other interests and at different times they are stronger in one area than another so I sort of come and go. Great site with great people though and I really enjoy my time spent here.

According to your definition I am apparently a lurker as well as probably 99% of the people on this site (by your definition anyone who has been here at least one year would have to have 1825 posts...there are only a handful of people over 1000 posts that I know of). Sorry to get analytical...it's just in my nature.

SIDE NOTE ADDED 2/15/08: I screwed the math all up as totempole points out in a post below, it should have been 260 per year. Not only am I analytical, but I also can't stand making errors so I just had to make things right.

Anyway, I probably post on average maybe 10 times a month. Why so few you ask. Well, I actually read posts on here everyday day during my lunch break, but I only like to reply to things in which I have direct experience. I also don't initiate many posts cause most of my questions have already been answered, and a quick search of the archives gets me what I need. A few other reasons I don't post much include:
-the same question being asked over and over
-I rarely like to retort with a quip on things as it doesn't really add much value
-I really don't spend that much time on here (15 minutes a day 5 days a week)

I also like to remain non-confrontational in the forums. As with everyone else I have strong opinions on God, guns, and a bunch of other stuff, but I don't see any value to voicing my opinion on those things in a forum. Those are the types of things I like to discuss in a more personal environment with people face-to-face.

I say all that just to let everyone know my philosophy on posting. Nonetheless, I do love being a part of this community. This is pretty much the only backpacking board I read (other than BPL) because it is a great place to hang out.

And I too am analytical in nature.....and nit-picking here <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't know how to do the fancy things like quote two people in one response, so here is bostonmtnman's post as of his edit of Jan 31 2008 06:02 PM: "IF YOU POST MORE THAN 5 TIMES A WEEK, PLEASE ENJOY READING BUT DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST."

Looks like you did your math with 5 posts/day, rather than the definition of 5 posts/week (1825 vs. 260 posts, respectively). Either way, you are right in that you fit bostonmtnman's definition of a lurker, posting no more than 5x/week.

I don't mind those that pick nits one bit. In fact, I have to admit that I did no calculations before putting forth a quantifiable definition for "lurker." Now that the actual numbers have come to light, it seems that a lower ratio of posts per period of time would be appropriate. Regardless, thanks for the insight into the reasons you post. :-)

You're right, I did hose the math all up. That's pretty pathetic considering I am an engineer by trade, and did insane amounts of math in college. Ahh, but that was over 10 years ago and my brain has erased much of that unused information. I always find it funny that what one learns in college one does not actually use much of in the real world.

Berserker you can say that again! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I think you'd be good trail company and not lacking in campfire conversation myself.

I did note that this thread has 850+ views <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I am a lurker primarily because as a newbie, I doubt that I can add any information that isn't all ready known.

But what you do add is your own perspective on a topic Tom. It's not necessarrily all about the gear, well, ok, some folks think it is <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The successful thread trick only works once though. See my single, decent contribution to these forums here:

Your Top 5 pieces of gear

and the not quite so successful one-year-anniversary-follow-up version here:

Top 5 part 2...wishlist

See? It doesn't quite work <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, I definitely don't expect this to be the start of a trend. I still think it's kinda funny how a thread on lurking has so many posts, though.

:-)

I know a few threads on other boards I'd love to see killed, so please use your superpowers for the good of mankind! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been a member since March, 2005 and I just posted over 100 messages! Yahoo! But interestingly enough, it feels like I post all the time! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I guess everyone has a different sense for what constitutes frequent posting! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Carol

I have to admit, I lurked... for 5 minutes. I read just one of Carol's posts and just couldn't stay away. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> or was it Phat's post? Hmmm...

Uh oh! I just realized I've been reading the posts on this lurker's topic for a month and had not posted. Guess I'm a lurker by default and didn't even realize it! What is this post all about anyway? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> BrumLurker

See now we know all you lurkers have great senses of humor, and are just mocking us posters all the time silently behind your screens <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Really, I think that's one thing difficult about being a lurker, Earthling.

People that post with a high frequency often times develop a forum personality of sorts where you can see some idiosyncrasies come through in their body of posts. I sort of feel like I know some of the more prominent forum members on a personal level just having read many of their posts. I sometimes wish I posted more so that people feel that they "know" me through my posts. I think that's pretty cool.

All that was actually to say that, since some of us lurkers may feel like we know you a little, maybe we do mock you behind our screens. I guess you'll never know. *shrug* <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Now how will I sleep nights <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

"We lurkers may mock you behind our screens." (paraphrased)

As opposed to the rest of us, who mock him on screen? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well if I did'nt have this 1998 laptop loaded with windos98 I'd a..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> probably use spell checker <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Well Jon, I'm fairly certain that after this thread has long faded, you will be known as the perennial lurker-guy <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

*clears throat* Here Ye! Here Ye! I here by dub thee, Boston Mountain Lurker!

I found one, I found one!


[img][image]http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm217/lv2fsh/vacaton06344-1.jpg[/img][/image]

Okay, I lurk in a lot of places. The question is "Why?"

I tend to find these forums in a search for information rather than a search for like-minded individuals. I still see the 'net as informative, not social.

Usually, I'm too late to be the first to make a point or offer constructive input and repetition is just redundant.

My attempts at humor are either too corny or subject to misinterpretation - very dry sense of humor, lack of decent sarcasm smilies. Although, the results sometimes appeal to my instigator side.

Specific to this forum, my experience is 20 - 25 years old, and only recently dusted off. While I can offer newbies the basics, nalgene bottles and packs with "hydration" facilities put me at a disadvantage. You should see my old internal frame pack that unzips like a suitcase to reveal my Coleman 502! Don't know that stove? Search eBay for "vintage camp gear". Much of my knowledge is similarly dated.

In that lengthy gap between youthful adventures and midlife desire to pass it on to my children, my knowlege was influenced by the military style of camping. If you want to learn about stand-to and canvas shelter halfs let me know. In the meantime, I'll come to you for advice on the safest way to carry my extra Coleman fuel so my son can have his hot cocoa and I my coffee in the morning.

My goals are somewhat different than the focus of the site. With a 6 year old in tow (more often in the lead) lightweight/longterm isn't such a concern. I did a 5 miler over two days with a 50lb pack (did you groan?) and was perfectly happy. The highlight was teaching The Boy to read a map and orient it with his compass. You're thinking "Map? Compass? Doesn't he know about GPS?". Admit it.

I subscribe to the idea that you should not say anything if you can't say something [constructive] nice and therefore, here anyway, I tend to lurk. I always thought of it as "ghosting" myself - "lurk" sounds too much like something out of The Ghost and Mr. Chicken!

Does this make me the most verbose poster in a thread that by definition shouldn't even exist? Have I lost my lurker status? Will I suffer the rage of the Banhammer? Should each of these questions be another thread in a different forum?

Call me a Luddite, but I think map-and-compass is still a pretty good skill. After all, batteries can die, units can get dropped and smashed, water may not be kind to them (of course, it's not real kind to maps) - but unless the magnetic field suddenly and dramatically shifts, the compass should keep on working.

Your reasons for lurking are very similar to mine, in particular the part about being too late to offer anything original. Many times, by the time I read a thread, all I can add to the existing responses is a simple "I agree" or "Yup." And I struggle with pulling off online humor as well.

Also, I too am surprised by the response to a thread that, by definition, should have been the shortest in the forum. I'm glad you posted, though. I enjoyed the read.

I'm finding it difficult to post on this thread for exactly the same reason I don't generally post on the other threads. ...My lack of anything truly new or useful to add to the conversation.

Also, by the time I get around to reading and thinking about posting, the thread has usually descended into political or personal attacks. Seems like most threads are good for the first 10 or so replies, then the flame wars begin.

Lastly, I seem to be a "thread killer". There can be a lively debate about some subject and so then I will eagerly reply ...and suddenly you can hear the sound of crickets chirping.

Let's see if that holds true with this thread. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think you'll find that most people here don't rely on a GPS. They may use one, or carry one, but not rely on it. The fact that we're on a forum about backpacking means we're passionate enough about the hobby to educate ourselves, and most educated backpackers are aware of the risks of relying on battery powered technology.

Besides, my GPS is 6 ounces, maps are closer to 1. It's a no-brainer <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Glad I'm not alone in that. In surfing gear sites, it's easy to get the impression that the printed map has gone the way of the Carribean Monk Seal!

Definitely not. I don't own a GPS. As long as I have eyes and a map, I can get pretty much anywhere I want to go. The only reason I could forsee purchasing one would be for my SAR work, and quite frankly, as I'm moving away from ground pounding, the most I'll get from a GPS is coordinates to send my search teams to.

Map, compass, tally step and a fair sense of speed... IMHO, using a GPS without having these skills as a back-up is a really good way to get yourself in the news. Good for you for being "old fashioned!" I think you'll find that most people here agree that map and compass skills are essential, even if they do own a GPS.

MNS

I'm with MNS, I don't own a GPS. I get a USGS map, and maybe a BLM map, depending on where I hike, and just use that with a compass. That is the way I was taught and feel comfortable with. Besides, it adds challenge (not much, but a little) and fulfills me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well that's pretty cool. Score one for Old School!

After my most recent trip I'm considering a basic GPS so I can overlay waypoints on maps to improve the accuracy of the displayed trail. My last map was good enough for the trip but my inner engineer was annoyed that there were switchbacks and other trivial features not accurately reflected. I'm also the type who is likely to enjoy geotagging photos for Google Earth, just to annoy my indoorsy-type friends.

For me, playing with an electronic thingie would be more challenging. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Seems to me that something like a GPS would tend to make people LESS aware of their surroundings, which goes against my cardinal rule of having situational awareness at all times.

MNS

I'm another non gps owner. I've lived in and hiked,hunted, and fished in the local mountains as well as far away mountains all of my life. I carry a small compass but rarely use it. The mountain men and Native Americans traveled everywhere without even a compass. I have amazed my wife as well as myself by traveling cross country and finding my way out. I think like MNS says, being aware of your surroundings and how far and which way you go is so important and not something to leave to a gadget. Not condeming anyone for having or using one, just haven't seen the need. Maybe when I get alittle older and lose all my short term memory <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

.....lurk.....

..lurk.......lurk......


Move along people, nothing to see here........

I lurk therefor I am

I am still not lurking, again.

I lurk for two reason:

a) to gain knowledge i would otherwise lack

b) to give non-lurkers a reason to exist. We lurkers seem to constitute the larger body at present in these forums, therefore utilizing the non-lurkers posts moreso than there own kind.

To reconfigure an earlier post to better suit my view of lurking... "I lurk, therefore you are."

::: Dino seek lurking in the shadows :::

I lurk because I rarely have anything to say about the topics.